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Balance needed : change all 4/4 ships to 5/3
lamyrs
Member Posts: 312 Arc User
No matter how hard I try (just spent another 800k dilit and 40m EC on a build) the 4/4 ships are far behind the 5/3 ones. The only way to get a 4/4 effective is to set up a beam boat with FAW, but still, there is no way a 4/4 can beat a 5/3 or even a 5/2 in dps. If you are trying to make a front firing ship with a 4/4 layout you'll end with 9 max weapons firing forward (arc beam X2 - antiproton or tetryon, nothing else - and cutting beam). Turret? Deal 3x less dmg than fwd weapons.
You also gonna argue me than 4/4 ships don't have enought turn rate to be effective. That's not true. With a good setup you can have a nice turn rate in any ship and most of the 5/3 ships have similar turn rate than the 4/4 ones.
Also, sci ships should get a 4/3 setup like the Annorax but that's another story.
You also gonna argue me than 4/4 ships don't have enought turn rate to be effective. That's not true. With a good setup you can have a nice turn rate in any ship and most of the 5/3 ships have similar turn rate than the 4/4 ones.
Also, sci ships should get a 4/3 setup like the Annorax but that's another story.
I am from Belgium and english isn't my main language, sorry if I make mistakes.
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Why ?
All for a little more DPS ?
Why change everything to 5/3 or 5/2 ?
So then everyone can fly the "Best" 5/3 or 5/2 ships...
You'd see the same "best" ships being flown everywhere by nearly everyone (except RP'ers)
So much for IDIC, there would be no infinite diversity, or infinite combinations. Everyone would fly the same thing !
BOOOOOOOORING !
How very communist of you Comrade !
I agree with the fellow posters on a number of points, but OP I have to ask, what you are suggesting, which is a major change to the game, what gives you the right to ask for this change? Is this a " I don't like it or I cant figure something out so the deves need to change it" moment.
Personally, I propel bodily fluids on DPS.
... you're doing it wrong.
4/4 Ships are not built for this. You're asking Cryptic to make a sweeping change to the entire game based on the fact that you're trying to stuff a square peg into a round hole.
The more sensible alternative is for you to use a ship that's more accommodating of your build.
The problem here is 100% yours. If you think 4/4 ships can't compete in this game then I honestly don't know what to tell you because you couldn't be more wrong.
Everyone is already flying the same ship : Scimatar, pilots ships, Arbiter, Kurak, everything that have a 5 fwd weapons... Go to space and look around you. All you find are 5/3 or 5/2 ships (or carriers). If someone play something else it is because they play beam boat with the op FAW or because they don't care to be useless.
Thank you that's what I am saying, 5/3 weapons layouts are unbalanced with the 4/4 layouts.
Sorry but I can't beleive that ships like the Qib or the Nandi are not made for front weaponry.
And here in lies the problem your having lamyrs... your trying to build a forward firing ship, with ships build to broadside. 4/4 ships are designed for the Broadside style of play, where you coast around the enemy keeping them in the shared arc of your beams from fore and aft. You only bring the 45 degree angle of your front or rear arc to bear, if you have dropped shields on the enemy and need to lay that high yield torpedo, or Dual beam bank beam overload into the hole in their shields.
Your operating under a flawed view that you must run every ship in the game the same way you fly escorts (fore facing the enemy at all times). This is in fact a game of positioning and movement, and as such you can build truly devastating beam boats with the broadsiding technique that will meet and exceed in some cases a forward firing only pilot. You don't NEED 4 dual beam banks on fore, when you can bring 8 Beam Arrays to bear off the Port or Starboard flank of the ship...
I stopped reading at FAW although I could have stopped at 800K dil and 40m EC. You don't really need all that DPS you're longing for and frankly, you spent too much on god knows what.
Care to go 1 vs 1 against my useless Palisade? I don't use TS, HY, FAW, or BO, part gens cheese (Actually no cheese whatsoever), or damage reflection, but I promise it will be 100% effective.
I can't beleive that. 4/4 designed for broadside? And the 5/3 that have less manoeuvrability are designed for what? Also if they are designed for broadside why most of them can mount dual canons? Did the devs were joking like : ok folks we are designing broadsides ships but it is a suprise so let's hide it behind good manoeuvrability, not a broadside standard equipment, the ability to mount dual canons, a console with a 45° firing cone and a starship trait that boost canons. I think none of the ship that was made is this game was intended to be a broadside ship.
Now go away.
You should believe that.
You're making the assumption that ship design decisions are (or should be) based purely on whether or not they are effective at maximizing DPS. It's the mistake that everyone who only thinks of DPS makes. You find cruisers and science ships with low turn rates which are allowed to mount dual cannons because it fits their 'RP-story' design, not because they are or were poorly designed for DPS. Just because a ship is allowed to mount a certain type of weapon doesn't mean it MUST mount that weapon, or that it NEEDS to mount that weapon. No ship MUST mount all beams to be effective, it's just convenient if you're trying to get that extra amount of DPS to post in the DPS league.
Since an all beam build is the current, most effective, DPS build, the type of ship you fly is really not relevant. For everyone else, a 4/4 layout with a mix of beams and torpedoes, built properly, and flown properly, delivers more than enough DPS to easily handle anything the game throws at us (and I'm not talking about minimal 10k, I'm talking a 20-50k+ range, depending on build)
lol
Cruisers and Sci ships have low turn rate? Sorry but the fact that you can't play cruisers with dual canons is not true. I have a Bortasqu' fitted with dual cannons and with a proper build you can turn very fast with it. I also have the same Bortasqu' with broadside setup but when I take it and I see how far my dps is from my canon Bortasqu' I just go back on first one.
But to be clear, I don't say that broadside ships don't do dps, I say that 5/3 ships do more dps. Take the same ship, the same tac consoles, one with 5/3 layout and one with 4/4 layout (for exemple the Kurak and the Qib). There is no way that the 4/4 will do more dps than the 5/3 and this is where I say there is balance problem.
If players like broadside fine, they can still do it with a 5/3 layout, where is the problem?
This is where, you yourself need to remember your sig, no offense. You didn't read what I said, properly.
I never said that it was not possible to play cruisers with dual cannons, I said some were allowed to mount dual cannons for 'RP-story' reasons. Also, if you're not able to fly your 4/4 ship effectively with beams, when everyone else can, that is a piloting and build issue. Cannons are fun to shoot, and in some situations can be easier to attain and achieve higher DPS, up to a point, after which a proper beam (or beam + torp) build does better --- because the game mechanics currently allow for it.
Just because many 5/3 ships with effective builds do good DPS does not mean that all ships should have that setup... it actually requires more piloting skill to use those ships properly. Not everyone plays to maximize DPS. Not everyone likes the emphasis on combat. Not everyone wants to fly around in a Star Trek universe with only combat heavy ships. I don't know if you really understand this, but, for many Star Trek fans the science and exploration aspects are very important. It's only those who are younger who think Trek is all like the later seasons of DS9.
You're thinking of DPS only, instead of the whole spectrum of players. In other words, your reasoning is too narrow.
Don't scream "MOAR DPS!" Every ship is perfectly capable of heavy hitting. One just needs to have the particle skill sets for those ships to work.
"Look at me I'm a target!"
"Fire the Lance on my mark... MARK!
"How many times have we gone into the breach again R'shee?"
My proposal for a Galaxy bundle
yes actually, you ARE wrong. The Bort would likely do FAR better in every way if it was using Beam arrays, it and 90% of the other 4/4 ships will nearly ALWAYS do better with beam arrays, someone actually trying to use it any other way is either using a very obscrure, very specific build, or has no idea what kind of ship they are flying. I bet you my Kobali or Amdromeda with basic gear will outfly that Bort, and I STINK at PVP.
If you're so worried about your DPS then you wouldn't be wasting all the console slots on RCS consoles and whatever ever to be being able to handle well in something like the Bortasqu'.
You obviously are doing something wrong if you're getting more DPS from your cannons than your beams...
Still it is a mmorpg and for me a game must be balanced, and while I can understand there are trek fans here (I like Star Trek but can't tell that I am fan) I prefer play with players that have optimised their builds than the one playing with the Enterprise because he likes the series.
I give up, thank you for your explanations.
It IS relatively balanced actually, at least, it is FAR more balanced then it has been for a long time, Not Cryptics fault you are trying to use a ship BUILT for Bfaw and beam arrays and trying to use something else. You are trying to do the equivalent of using a sniper rifle when the enemy is right in front of you.
Should be "balanced", right?
(tries not to mention that the two boxes I want are forward weapon boxes
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