- A time ship from the distant future that cannot withstand an attack from a few primitive Tholian ships is like a modern missile destroyer not being able to defend against 17th century gunboats.
- Kal Dano has a time ship. Why wouldn't he go back in time to warn himself about the Tholians stealing the device?
- Why do we have to burry the device in the 22nd century on Risa if we could destroy it right here, right now? Picard could so why can't we?
- Can the Tholians somehow detect the device if it's not hidden in the 22nd century on Risa? Why not in the 23rd century? Why not Vulcan, Andor, Bajor or Cardassia?
- Why would a temporal ship travel into the past to destroy some Tholian ships attacking ME if that could mean a complete disruption of his own timeline?
- Why is Kal Dano sucked into a time vortex and why doesn't he survive the trip and make it back?
- Why are we detecting Kal Dano centuries AFTER he arrived in the past and beam back his corpse? Why not at the very moment of his arrival in the past?
Because
1) USS Cole, more or less taken out by a zodiac. Not trying to bring up politics, just saying, Dano's shuttle isn't a warship. It's a shuttle.
2) Crossing his own time stream would be problematic. Refer to the Doctor Who episode where Rose saves her father.
3) Fixed point in time. Picard finds it, so it has to happen.
4) *shrug* Who'd think to look on Risa?
5) Because letting you get destroyed then and there would be a complete disruption of his own timeline, _and_ he had to retrieve Dano.
6) Because of the Enterprise episode that refers to Dano's corpse is a fixed point in time. Refer to Doctor Who episodes which explain the difference between fixed points and unfixed points in time. If you definitively know what's going to happen, historically, it's a fixed point and can't be rewritten. At least not trivially.
7) Because Tucker accidentally set off the temporal distress beacon on Dano's wreck that started out as a time pod/shuttle.
I'd like to be able to complete this mission but, Cryptic, you haven't fixed the severe FPS drops that a few of us are still having on the Risa ground map (and others) irrespective of hardware specs. I think a GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER is very much deserved with this one. Another bug report has been filed but considering that it's the November after the summer festival [in which the first reports were filed] I have grave doubts there will ever be a fix to this problem. [there has been very little response to this glitch, despite recurring problems like Stormbound has, and repeated attempts by several community members to reach out to cryptic about it.]
Very sad, I was enjoying myself [but the severe graphical slowdown very much dampened that enjoyment]. It might be worth having the devs check the support forums for a full list of maps they should work around in future [where such choices are possible, sometimes writing is more flexible than coding] if they want to avoid consistently alienating a [small but detectable] portion of the player base. If you're not going to do anything about it [see. lack of direct evidence to this point thus far] what you guys could do instead is use alternative maps which satisfy a similar narrative point but without involving those with long-standing graphical glitches.
Edit 1: I just forced myself through the unexpectedly short bit on Risa. Completed but I'm not looking forward to having through ~5 FPS with every repeat play-through. We [ie. those affected by this incredibly frustrating glitch] really do need some help on this one, Cryptic.
Edit 2: Toned down after warning with extra clarifications.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Anyone remember the name/season/episode number of the STENT and STTNG Episodes referenced in the mission? Would like to watch them before playing the episode...
Thanks! CM
Edit: found them!!
TNG 3-19 Captain's Holiday ENT 2-16 Future Tense
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
1) Am I the only one who noticed that when you complete the mission the sun in the Alpha Quadrant is still dead, but if you pick it up again, the sun goes active again? Cool, right?
2) Is it just me, or, did the race from the Na'kuhl System look a lot like the race from Star Trek Enterprise ep. Harbinger?
1) Am I the only one who noticed that when you complete the mission the sun in the Alpha Quadrant is still dead, but if you pick it up again, the sun goes active again? Cool, right?
2) Is it just me, or, did the race from the Na'kuhl System look a lot like the race from Star Trek Enterprise ep. Harbinger?
Unrelated, the alien was a deteriorating Sphere Builder. The Na'kuhl are the Na'kuhl, the guys who made the TRIBBLE win in an alternate timeline, in the episode Storm Front.
About the mission, I found it nice, but:
-it was short
-you need to have watched the TNG and ENT episode to fully understand how it works
-the whole
Temporal Cold War arc
(unless it was just a prelude) was very very short. 2 episodes and it's already over
-Poor Kal:
In the end, he died alone, lost in time, having hidden his lifework because it was used as a weapon, knowing he was unable to restart the Na'kuhl's sun and leaving his ally during a fight, maybe unsure if they survived... all because he wanted to save his ancestors. He saved them but his actions started/continued/ended(?) the Temporal Cold War. What an horrible way to die.
Yeah, I have to agree the mission was pretty underwhelming. The story was decent (on-par with most Enterprise TCW scripts) but the mission itself was kind of dull. I was hoping we'd spend more time in the 22nd century; maybe get mixed up in the Earth/Romulan War or something. But we were there and back so fast they could have just done a cutscene. And the missing/incorrect VO was pretty immersion-breaking too.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
a very cool mission, a little bit short but interesting. Enterprise is my favourite Trek show, so i'm happy to see stuff from this show in the new FE. 1 part in this mission is really interesting, when we use the shuttle to board the tholian ship. + when we leave the recluse, it was very cool to see my boffs do their job (pilot etc).
but the rewards are meh, I think that we have enough space sets, something else would be more interesting.
The story was moved to 2410 a while ago, after that the iconian war took place which supposedly lasted for five years. - Thus by the time of the episode it would be 2415.
Where'd you get that from? The Iconian War lasted for about 6 months. There is no way the Alliance could have withstood the Herald onslaught for five years.
Huge drop of FPS, now I cannot even walk without the gaming crashing and shutting my computer off, what the heck did you all do? I have never had problems before playing the game.
Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall receive. Rabboni
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" (Benjamin Franklin).
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
I loved it. Just enough combat but not overwhelming like the Herald missions and lots of trek science to make one happy . Too bad you couldn't use the hover board on raining risa!
The story was moved to 2410 a while ago, after that the iconian war took place which supposedly lasted for five years. - Thus by the time of the episode it would be 2415.
Yet Kal Dano says 'Returning us to 2410'
I think with the five years they meant in real world time and also counted the conflicts we had to deal with created by the iconians
One thing that I didn't understand was: why didn't Kal Dano destroy the Tox Uthat himself? He seems a very responsible man, not willing to let something he created fall into the wrong hands. And then he suddenly decides to bury the thing on Risa and (as he literally said) make it some other captain's problem.
One thing that I didn't understand was: why didn't Kal Dano destroy the Tox Uthat himself? He seems a very responsible man, not willing to let something he created fall into the wrong hands. And then he suddenly decides to bury the thing on Risa and (as he literally said) make it some other captain's problem.
He literally said it because he had literally reached the conclusion that the object he had created was the object that the other Captain (Picard) had dug up. He decided to bury it because he realises from history that it is not discovered by the Tholians or Vorgons, but found by Picard and returned to the future safely.
He had figured out that he was the start of the causal loop/bootstrap paradox.
I'm guessing the shielding from the vortex must have failed as he passed through the vortex, causing his death... because had he survived, he could have triggered the emergency beacon )that was used in Enterprise), himself.
Alternatively if he survived but was unable to return, it is quite possible that he lived out his days adrift, deliberately avoiding space lanes and replicating food as required until he died.
The presence of his derelict would have been the perfect decoy to throw the Tholians off the scent of where/when the Tox was. They would likely assume that the device had been in the same era and perhaps area as the ship.
Personally what I hope for is that we actually meet Kal Dano again - because his adventures didn't end there, he did some further time travel - and we can't tell him about his fate, or he refuses to hear about it. I think that would be particularly bittersweet...
Alternativelly, or additionally: We know where we hid the Tox Uthat. What if we actually need to retrieve it, use it, and then put it back? Which is something Kal Dano might have known, which is why he couldn't just destroy it himself, and had to wait for Picard to do it.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
So we were the ones who recovered Kal Dano's remains after Trip triggered that beacon back on the NX-01! I'm guessing Cap. Walker was busy scooping up the tech and the ship itself. Connections everywhere Although it felt a wee bit short, I loved the episode!
Too bad to see Kal Dano go out like that. But, Daniels was killed once...
... in a manner of speaking.
^^
Yet he showed up again to help Archer get the Enterprise program back on its tracks
Can't wait to learn more about how we fit into the Temporal Cold War
"Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
- A time ship from the distant future that cannot withstand an attack from a few primitive Tholian ships is like a modern missile destroyer not being able to defend against 17th century gunboats.
- Kal Dano has a time ship. Why wouldn't he go back in time to warn himself about the Tholians stealing the device?
- Why do we have to burry the device in the 22nd century on Risa if we could destroy it right here, right now? Picard could so why can't we?
- Can the Tholians somehow detect the device if it's not hidden in the 22nd century on Risa? Why not in the 23rd century? Why not Vulcan, Andor, Bajor or Cardassia?
- Why would a temporal ship travel into the past to destroy some Tholian ships attacking ME if that could mean a complete disruption of his own timeline?
- Why is Kal Dano sucked into a time vortex and why doesn't he survive the trip and make it back?
- Why are we detecting Kal Dano centuries AFTER he arrived in the past and beam back his corpse? Why not at the very moment of his arrival in the past?
1. I thought we had already established that the Tholians are not primitive, in fact, they have their own interdimensional empire.
2. Temporal paradox.
3. Because that's Picard's job. Fixed point in time.
4. Tholians are tracking Kal Dano's ship, not the PC.
5. Tracking temporal distress call. The PC is not the target.
6. Damaged timeship, cannot time-travel. Dies of starvation/thirst.
7. We detect the point where Trip Tucker activates the temporal beacon.
Any questions?
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
Sorry, but there is one massive plot hole that should have at least been addressed.
You have the Tox Uthat. You have the time ship that has been shown using the Tox Uthat to fix a star. Why the hell don't you use the Tox Uthat before you get rid of it? I listened carefully, and Kal Dano does not say it could not be done. You are leaving the Na'kuhl to die with no explanation. You don't get the line from the 29th century captain until after you have hidden the Tox Uthat.
This mission left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I felt like my captain was a callous jerk or just a puppet of destiny. My captain and officers provided no advice, nor was there much sense of exploration. The dialogue felt rushed when it was actually present, and lots of dialog was out of sync.
Suggestion for when you next do maintenance on the mission: Add a few lines from Kal Dano - with some reworking, they could also be from a bridge officer if you can't do new VA work.
(disgusted)"They've sabotaged the Quantum Phase inducers - now this is nothing but a weapon!"
"Let me link my temporal portal system to your ship so we can head to the past.
"I did a historical search on the term the Tholians used - Tox Uthat. Apparently, the Captain Picard found a Tox Uthat on Risa back in 24th century."
Now, were I doing a more in-depth overhaul of the mission, I would have our captain make the suggestion of where to go, and have some use of research. We find research notes (or a Captain's Log) in our files and use them to set up the loop. Have some exploration of history. It would make the mission much slower, but would give it some meat like the Sunrise or the later Iconian War missions.
Nah. It's arguable that the state of the Na'kuhl was "meant to be". otherwise, why not use time travel to undo it?
also... Kal Dano was probably the only one who knew how to use the Tox Uthat to reignite stars. While we got to watch him use his equipment, we don't understand how his equipment worked.
I do agree some added lines would be nice to explain why you travel back in time before trying to fix the Na'kuhl sun.
Even just one dialogue window will be enough:
"Player: But what about the Na'kuhl? We must fix their sun
Kal: No time for that, the next wave of Tholians will be on us in a minute! Don't worry, my computer made the needed calculations while we were boarding the lead ship, I can restart the sun without the Tox Uthat, we can get rid of it."
The story was moved to 2410 a while ago, after that the iconian war took place which supposedly lasted for five years. - Thus by the time of the episode it would be 2415.
Where'd you get that from? The Iconian War lasted for about 6 months. There is no way the Alliance could have withstood the Herald onslaught for five years.
It was a dev blog, even featured on the main page back then.
The story was moved to 2410 a while ago, after that the iconian war took place which supposedly lasted for five years. - Thus by the time of the episode it would be 2415.
Yet Kal Dano says 'Returning us to 2410'
I think with the five years they meant in real world time and also counted the conflicts we had to deal with created by the iconians
Possible, but then one of the Post war stories wouldn't make any sense at all, namely the one with Quinn and his assistant. Plus new ship development and building would also go way to fast.
The Nameship of the Yamato class was launched some month's after the war, and we had a blog later already featuring the USS Madrid, which is apparently a Yamato Class Battleship. So yeah at least 5 years should have passed by the time of the next episode.
Again with the time travel? It's becoming a crutch.
I agree. [Tourmaline] this [Fire Agate]ing Temporal Cold War nonsense up the [Amethyst] with a rusty bat'leth. And [Citrine] Mirror Leeta, too.
Post edited by tacofangs on
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
Because
2) Crossing his own time stream would be problematic. Refer to the Doctor Who episode where Rose saves her father.
3) Fixed point in time. Picard finds it, so it has to happen.
4) *shrug* Who'd think to look on Risa?
5) Because letting you get destroyed then and there would be a complete disruption of his own timeline, _and_ he had to retrieve Dano.
6) Because of the Enterprise episode that refers to Dano's corpse is a fixed point in time. Refer to Doctor Who episodes which explain the difference between fixed points and unfixed points in time. If you definitively know what's going to happen, historically, it's a fixed point and can't be rewritten. At least not trivially.
7) Because Tucker accidentally set off the temporal distress beacon on Dano's wreck that started out as a time pod/shuttle.
Very sad, I was enjoying myself [but the severe graphical slowdown very much dampened that enjoyment]. It might be worth having the devs check the support forums for a full list of maps they should work around in future [where such choices are possible, sometimes writing is more flexible than coding] if they want to avoid consistently alienating a [small but detectable] portion of the player base. If you're not going to do anything about it [see. lack of direct evidence to this point thus far] what you guys could do instead is use alternative maps which satisfy a similar narrative point but without involving those with long-standing graphical glitches.
Edit 1: I just forced myself through the unexpectedly short bit on Risa. Completed but I'm not looking forward to having through ~5 FPS with every repeat play-through. We [ie. those affected by this incredibly frustrating glitch] really do need some help on this one, Cryptic.
Edit 2: Toned down after warning with extra clarifications.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Thanks!
CM
Edit: found them!!
TNG 3-19 Captain's Holiday
ENT 2-16 Future Tense
2) Is it just me, or, did the race from the Na'kuhl System look a lot like the race from Star Trek Enterprise ep. Harbinger?
About the mission, I found it nice, but:
-it was short
-you need to have watched the TNG and ENT episode to fully understand how it works
-the whole
-Poor Kal:
I hope the next one is better.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
but the rewards are meh, I think that we have enough space sets, something else would be more interesting.
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
I think with the five years they meant in real world time and also counted the conflicts we had to deal with created by the iconians
after all it would be wrong for all that tech to fall into the wrong hands....
He literally said it because he had literally reached the conclusion that the object he had created was the object that the other Captain (Picard) had dug up. He decided to bury it because he realises from history that it is not discovered by the Tholians or Vorgons, but found by Picard and returned to the future safely.
He had figured out that he was the start of the causal loop/bootstrap paradox.
I'm guessing the shielding from the vortex must have failed as he passed through the vortex, causing his death... because had he survived, he could have triggered the emergency beacon )that was used in Enterprise), himself.
Alternatively if he survived but was unable to return, it is quite possible that he lived out his days adrift, deliberately avoiding space lanes and replicating food as required until he died.
The presence of his derelict would have been the perfect decoy to throw the Tholians off the scent of where/when the Tox was. They would likely assume that the device had been in the same era and perhaps area as the ship.
Yes really, it's every freaking time.
Alternativelly, or additionally: We know where we hid the Tox Uthat. What if we actually need to retrieve it, use it, and then put it back? Which is something Kal Dano might have known, which is why he couldn't just destroy it himself, and had to wait for Picard to do it.
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
Too bad to see Kal Dano go out like that. But, Daniels was killed once...
^^
Yet he showed up again to help Archer get the Enterprise program back on its tracks
Can't wait to learn more about how we fit into the Temporal Cold War
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
2. Temporal paradox.
3. Because that's Picard's job. Fixed point in time.
4. Tholians are tracking Kal Dano's ship, not the PC.
5. Tracking temporal distress call. The PC is not the target.
6. Damaged timeship, cannot time-travel. Dies of starvation/thirst.
7. We detect the point where Trip Tucker activates the temporal beacon.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
This mission left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I felt like my captain was a callous jerk or just a puppet of destiny. My captain and officers provided no advice, nor was there much sense of exploration. The dialogue felt rushed when it was actually present, and lots of dialog was out of sync.
Suggestion for when you next do maintenance on the mission: Add a few lines from Kal Dano - with some reworking, they could also be from a bridge officer if you can't do new VA work.
"Let me link my temporal portal system to your ship so we can head to the past.
"I did a historical search on the term the Tholians used - Tox Uthat. Apparently, the Captain Picard found a Tox Uthat on Risa back in 24th century."
Now, were I doing a more in-depth overhaul of the mission, I would have our captain make the suggestion of where to go, and have some use of research. We find research notes (or a Captain's Log) in our files and use them to set up the loop. Have some exploration of history. It would make the mission much slower, but would give it some meat like the Sunrise or the later Iconian War missions.
also... Kal Dano was probably the only one who knew how to use the Tox Uthat to reignite stars. While we got to watch him use his equipment, we don't understand how his equipment worked.
My character Tsin'xing
Even just one dialogue window will be enough:
"Player: But what about the Na'kuhl? We must fix their sun
Kal: No time for that, the next wave of Tholians will be on us in a minute! Don't worry, my computer made the needed calculations while we were boarding the lead ship, I can restart the sun without the Tox Uthat, we can get rid of it."
There, oversight solved, everyone is happy!
It was a dev blog, even featured on the main page back then.
Possible, but then one of the Post war stories wouldn't make any sense at all, namely the one with Quinn and his assistant. Plus new ship development and building would also go way to fast.
The Nameship of the Yamato class was launched some month's after the war, and we had a blog later already featuring the USS Madrid, which is apparently a Yamato Class Battleship. So yeah at least 5 years should have passed by the time of the next episode.
I agree. [Tourmaline] this [Fire Agate]ing Temporal Cold War nonsense up the [Amethyst] with a rusty bat'leth. And [Citrine] Mirror Leeta, too.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/