Whaaa... Please stop whining and learn how to build a decent ship and instead of flying around willy nilly learn the fight and contribute. I have seen and read many posts like yours always crying that such and such is broken or OPed. Nothing is OPed in this game and guy you have zero excuse. So stop crying about someone who has taken the time and effort to build a powerful ship. Better yet quit the game and don't come back.
I know an TRIBBLE when I see one. Thanks for illustrating for us.
Beat me to it....some peeps are just born to be douchebags....
No, not the first time we get false positives with the AFK penalty system. It's frustrating, Cryptic should revamp it. As long as a person move around and shoot a little it should be ok. It should not be your dmg vs the other players because as stated, new or poorly equipped player in a high DPS group will get screwed.
If it is AFK penalty system at fault, complainers got to prove that it is the game mechanics TRIBBLE the player not the player making lousy excuses to leech.
side note: the AFK ban also takes into consideration science abilities and healing. throw a couple of grav wells and a hazard emitter during a run and you won't get AFKed.
TL:DR if you got AFK banned in FFA, you most probably deserved it.
I don't think that it really counts as a good test if you've deliberately pimped out your ride to do that kind of damage and are thus outgunning (bad) level 60s. Plus, which T2 ship even has a gravwell, anyway?
There's also the "engine lockout" issue. Since low-level ships have no functioning engines and are pretty much incapable of movement, everything can end up dead before your excuse for a ship manages to drift into the action.
Level 60 toons is automatically reduced level by the game mechanics into level 50. No excuse.
It is a level 50 STF/mission.
How much nerfing does one have to do at level 50? He was doing 1.1k DPS at that test. In hist unnerfed test, he did 18k DPS on many posts above.
That is already a very low DPS even for level 50. Besides there is the HPS factor to consider. That means if the player aint doing even that low DPS they should be healing.
But that is excuse after excuse just to justify leeching. level 50 misison/stf, lower than 1.1k DPS, no to little healing, no contribution but players expect to be not AFKed when barely doing any team contribution?
From what I see, this is a leechers complaint thread.
side note: the AFK ban also takes into consideration science abilities and healing. throw a couple of grav wells and a hazard emitter during a run and you won't get AFKed.
TL:DR if you got AFK banned in FFA, you most probably deserved it.
I don't think that it really counts as a good test if you've deliberately pimped out your ride to do that kind of damage and are thus outgunning (bad) level 60s. Plus, which T2 ship even has a gravwell, anyway?
There's also the "engine lockout" issue. Since low-level ships have no functioning engines and are pretty much incapable of movement, everything can end up dead before your excuse for a ship manages to drift into the action.
Seriously how far can you "pimp out" a level 12 science toon in a freebie cruiser? running retro phasers? gear from delta recruit thing? basic boffs? no doffs? this is a level 12 toon.
I could probably switch her to the T2 c-store escort and maybe push 2k DPS out of her.
Whaaa... Please stop whining and learn how to build a decent ship and instead of flying around willy nilly learn the fight and contribute. I have seen and read many posts like yours always crying that such and such is broken or OPed. Nothing is OPed in this game and guy you have zero excuse. So stop crying about someone who has taken the time and effort to build a powerful ship. Better yet quit the game and don't come back.
Pretty much an unacceptable answer to this OP. Maybe you, ssbn655, should go play solitaire. Stack the deck however you like. Solitaire isn't a community game, it should work well for you. You can always come back when you want to play and be nice with real people.
This problem is aggravated by some players like you ssbn655, who suggest that other players should 'leave' the game. I suppose the Devs would like to hear more of that sort of talk from people like you, hmm? It's bad enough I have low levelers in my Fleets who are taking your exact advice. It would please me greatly at the moment if you had a Kemocite chain reaction where the sun don't shine
If you disagree, make your point in a civil fashion ( I admit, it can be difficult at times to remain civil... ) Don't drive people from our community. Most of us like the community, the Devs flat out NEED the community, and you need the Devs. or you have no place to brag about how cool your high dps build is. See the connection?
Qapla
OP has played this game since at least 2012 thats 3 years to learn how to build a ship. He's not a noob. he's a whiner.
The OP has said he had a mid level toon in this one. We all know that getting a full speced kemo 60 toon with a level 30ish or less toon is a recipe for AFK penalty. That is actually a valid complaint and something that needs to be tweaked.
Whaaa... Please stop whining and learn how to build a decent ship and instead of flying around willy nilly learn the fight and contribute. I have seen and read many posts like yours always crying that such and such is broken or OPed. Nothing is OPed in this game and guy you have zero excuse. So stop crying about someone who has taken the time and effort to build a powerful ship. Better yet quit the game and don't come back.
Pretty much an unacceptable answer to this OP. Maybe you, ssbn655, should go play solitaire. Stack the deck however you like. Solitaire isn't a community game, it should work well for you. You can always come back when you want to play and be nice with real people.
This problem is aggravated by some players like you ssbn655, who suggest that other players should 'leave' the game. I suppose the Devs would like to hear more of that sort of talk from people like you, hmm? It's bad enough I have low levelers in my Fleets who are taking your exact advice. It would please me greatly at the moment if you had a Kemocite chain reaction where the sun don't shine
If you disagree, make your point in a civil fashion ( I admit, it can be difficult at times to remain civil... ) Don't drive people from our community. Most of us like the community, the Devs flat out NEED the community, and you need the Devs. or you have no place to brag about how cool your high dps build is. See the connection?
Qapla
OP has played this game since at least 2012 thats 3 years to learn how to build a ship. He's not a noob. he's a whiner.
The OP has said he had a mid level toon in this one. We all know that getting a full speced kemo 60 toon with a level 30ish or less toon is a recipe for AFK penalty. That is actually a valid complaint and something that needs to be tweaked.
Exactly.
Qapla.
Do players even actually play FFA to even know level 60 players are automatically nerfed to level 50. That this nothing to do with kemo cheese. That FFa is normal mission with level 50 mobs.
100k+ cheeses are nerfed down to 20k dps or less in practical application in Ffa. This has been proven. With 4 20k dpsers, 1 needs to be doing less than 800 dps with 0 to limited heals. But the reality is only 1 is most likely cheeses is in the mission with a very small probability of teaming up with that player. Why? Only 100-200 spread in all the times zones can do 100k+ dps in ISA. Even if they do team up with that type of player, the afker would be most likely doing 300 or less dps with barely no heals.
Prove first that one is not leeching at all since complainers don't have proof that they are contributing to the team and just got an AFK out of the blue. Blaming others, the mechanics rather than self.
Like I said, this thread is a leechers complaint thread since complainers have no proof at all they contributed to team and just one of those lousy excuses to justify leeching.
No, not the first time we get false positives with the AFK penalty system. It's frustrating, Cryptic should revamp it. As long as a person move around and shoot a little it should be ok. It should not be your dmg vs the other players because as stated, new or poorly equipped player in a high DPS group will get screwed.
If it is AFK penalty system at fault, complainers got to prove that it is the game mechanics TRIBBLE the player not the player making lousy excuses to leech.
side note: the AFK ban also takes into consideration science abilities and healing. throw a couple of grav wells and a hazard emitter during a run and you won't get AFKed.
TL:DR if you got AFK banned in FFA, you most probably deserved it.
I don't think that it really counts as a good test if you've deliberately pimped out your ride to do that kind of damage and are thus outgunning (bad) level 60s. Plus, which T2 ship even has a gravwell, anyway?
There's also the "engine lockout" issue. Since low-level ships have no functioning engines and are pretty much incapable of movement, everything can end up dead before your excuse for a ship manages to drift into the action.
Level 60 toons is automatically reduced level by the game mechanics into level 50. No excuse.
It is a level 50 STF/mission.
How much nerfing does one have to do at level 50? He was doing 1.1k DPS at that test. In hist unnerfed test, he did 18k DPS on many posts above.
That is already a very low DPS even for level 50. Besides there is the HPS factor to consider. That means if the player aint doing even that low DPS they should be healing.
But that is excuse after excuse just to justify leeching. level 50 misison/stf, lower than 1.1k DPS, no to little healing, no contribution but players expect to be not AFKed when barely doing any team contribution?
From what I see, this is a leechers complaint thread.
From what I see, your biased against any argument that doesn't support your preconceptions.
I have seen you demand 'evidence' from anyone who doesn't fit your narrative, but when someone who does support your narrative makes some pretty much 'unverified' statements, you are all to happy to accept them. THAT undermines your position by demonstrating a lack of sincerity. You conveniently fail to notice the contradictions in your own arguments. He said he was flying level 12, but you say he was doing it in a level 50 queue. Gee! How did he do that? If it was a true 'level 50 queue' he would have to be level '50' or more. It had to be a queue that had a low entry gate, at least level 12+. Also the game force feeds you all your early Boffs, so where do you get gravity well from? Most likely, you don't get it at all, true in more than one context here, imho.
My theory is that you don't want to see a bug get fixed because you think you will have to give something up if the Devs make it right. Well that IS selfish. Some have called people with concerns about this mechanic 'whiners'. Those same people whine about "OMG, we NEEEEED the AFK penalties to save us from the dreaded LEECHES. Anyone who isn't like us must be LEEEEEECHES!" Well I got some bad news for you. Since the bug favors you at the expense of others, not wanting it fixed makes you a leech. If I am being to honest with you, using that word to describe you, just report me. It will still be the truth. You want to keep benefitting from a process that makes others recieve unfair treatment. Those unfairly tagged don't suck, but those who would say they deserved it do. Leeches suck.
The biggest leeches in STO are the ones who take from the game, and never give back. I'm definitly not talking about some map camper who annoys simply by doing nothing, nor am I talking about high dpsers as a group. I'm talking about the leeches who suck progress out of forum discussions because they think the forums are just a different place to do PVP. I mean the leeches who think PVE queues only exist to stroke the egos of high dpsers because they happen to be one, and also don't mind sucking the enjoyment out of the queues for everyone else. I'm talking about the leeches who suck civility out of any discussion, by insisting the other side in any differences of opinion are lazy, stupid, or both. Those peope are the leeches that hurt STO the most. You can see these particular leeches in abundance here trying desperately to protect their swamp from being drained.
Most of us don't even want to be in a queue with such arrogant, obnoxious, and self important people. It's your holier than thou attitude, you see? The Tarzan yells, the chest thumping, the throwing of poo from tree limbs don't seem very 'holy' to the rest of us. You complain that reasons we need to look at this mechanic are just 'making lousy excuses to leech'. I think any excuse for why we should have to put up with such a narrow and self serving point of view is even more lousy.
I bet you don't salt your food.
The best reason why I think the Devs will eventually side with those of us who see a problem, is because the Devs will remember that all players are customers, and will realize that 'we' who want to keep the game fun for the most people, outnumber those who only want the game to be fun for themselves. So the elitists are doomed to dissapointment.
No smileys for this, I am tired of the preachy BS from those who are paranoid about leeches. Their arguments while often shallow, are hurting normal players progress in discussing solutions to what is obviously a problem that is big enough that lots of people are complaining about it.
I'd rather be playing the game than addressing this, but I will be addressing it as long as it remains an issue, even if it means I play less, and argue more. If you would rather be defending the broken mechanic, instead of playing. I'll be around, and we can both NOT HAVE FUN together. Why don't we both go play instead? You first ...
side note: the AFK ban also takes into consideration science abilities and healing. throw a couple of grav wells and a hazard emitter during a run and you won't get AFKed.
TL:DR if you got AFK banned in FFA, you most probably deserved it.
I don't think that it really counts as a good test if you've deliberately pimped out your ride to do that kind of damage and are thus outgunning (bad) level 60s. Plus, which T2 ship even has a gravwell, anyway?
There's also the "engine lockout" issue. Since low-level ships have no functioning engines and are pretty much incapable of movement, everything can end up dead before your excuse for a ship manages to drift into the action.
Seriously how far can you "pimp out" a level 12 science toon in a freebie cruiser? running retro phasers? gear from delta recruit thing? basic boffs? no doffs? this is a level 12 toon.
I could probably switch her to the T2 c-store escort and maybe push 2k DPS out of her.
I'm pretty sure your 'level 60' compatriot was the one leeching in that example ;p
Which makes my point that low dps doesn't scale in a useful way in many circumstances, which carries to the point that IF it isn't a useful measure, it is to easy for it to issue an unfair penalty to a low dps boat, when someone with high dps capability is working at it.
Out of fairness maybe your 'level 60' just had incredible connection difficulties?
No, not the first time we get false positives with the AFK penalty system. It's frustrating, Cryptic should revamp it. As long as a person move around and shoot a little it should be ok. It should not be your dmg vs the other players because as stated, new or poorly equipped player in a high DPS group will get screwed.
If it is AFK penalty system at fault, complainers got to prove that it is the game mechanics TRIBBLE the player not the player making lousy excuses to leech.
side note: the AFK ban also takes into consideration science abilities and healing. throw a couple of grav wells and a hazard emitter during a run and you won't get AFKed.
TL:DR if you got AFK banned in FFA, you most probably deserved it.
I don't think that it really counts as a good test if you've deliberately pimped out your ride to do that kind of damage and are thus outgunning (bad) level 60s. Plus, which T2 ship even has a gravwell, anyway?
There's also the "engine lockout" issue. Since low-level ships have no functioning engines and are pretty much incapable of movement, everything can end up dead before your excuse for a ship manages to drift into the action.
Level 60 toons is automatically reduced level by the game mechanics into level 50. No excuse.
It is a level 50 STF/mission.
How much nerfing does one have to do at level 50? He was doing 1.1k DPS at that test. In hist unnerfed test, he did 18k DPS on many posts above.
That is already a very low DPS even for level 50. Besides there is the HPS factor to consider. That means if the player aint doing even that low DPS they should be healing.
But that is excuse after excuse just to justify leeching. level 50 misison/stf, lower than 1.1k DPS, no to little healing, no contribution but players expect to be not AFKed when barely doing any team contribution?
From what I see, this is a leechers complaint thread.
As you've just proven yourself, leeches don't need to complain. The penalty is easily avoided and all the intentional AFKers know how to avoid it by now.
And while it's true that clueless newbies who can't hit that very low threshold despite their best efforts (and I have no doubt they do exist, given that the game gives zero instruction on how to properly equip a ship) aren't any team contribution, they should be informed of that fact and advised how to improve their build, not hit over the head with the banhammer and told they were "AFK" with no explanation.
The AFK penalty really should be measuring % active time, not damage.
side note: the AFK ban also takes into consideration science abilities and healing. throw a couple of grav wells and a hazard emitter during a run and you won't get AFKed.
TL:DR if you got AFK banned in FFA, you most probably deserved it.
I don't think that it really counts as a good test if you've deliberately pimped out your ride to do that kind of damage and are thus outgunning (bad) level 60s. Plus, which T2 ship even has a gravwell, anyway?
There's also the "engine lockout" issue. Since low-level ships have no functioning engines and are pretty much incapable of movement, everything can end up dead before your excuse for a ship manages to drift into the action.
Seriously how far can you "pimp out" a level 12 science toon in a freebie cruiser? running retro phasers? gear from delta recruit thing? basic boffs? no doffs? this is a level 12 toon.
I could probably switch her to the T2 c-store escort and maybe push 2k DPS out of her.
Hehe while I would agree with you on any other STF, we're talking about new players here. You know how to fly a ship and can get more damage out of a ship than a regular player can without even trying. In this case, the ship wasn't pimped out, but the pilot was.
Since this is a level 5 and up queue, it's safe to assume that (completely) new players may want to try it out. They may not know any of the basics (ship weapons not on autofire, power levels at stock positions, maximizing firing arcs, mismatched buffs, etc) so yeah, they can get the penalty.
I have seen you demand 'evidence' from anyone who doesn't fit your narrative, but when someone who does support your narrative makes some pretty much 'unverified' statements, you are all to happy to accept them. THAT undermines your position by demonstrating a lack of sincerity. You conveniently fail to notice the contradictions in your own arguments. He said he was flying level 12, but you say he was doing it in a level 50 queue. Gee! How did he do that? If it was a true 'level 50 queue' he would have to be level '50' or more. It had to be a queue that had a low entry gate, at least level 12+. Also the game force feeds you all your early Boffs, so where do you get gravity well from? Most likely, you don't get it at all, true in more than one context here, imho.
Check the mob levels. It just so happens that level 12 can enter. Also if you enter with a level 60 toon, the game doesnt nerf you to level 12, but nerfs you to level 50.
My theory is that you don't want to see a bug get fixed because you think you will have to give something up if the Devs make it right. Well that IS selfish. Some have called people with concerns about this mechanic 'whiners'. Those same people whine about "OMG, we NEEEEED the AFK penalties to save us from the dreaded LEECHES. Anyone who isn't like us must be LEEEEEECHES!" Well I got some bad news for you. Since the bug favors you at the expense of others, not wanting it fixed makes you a leech. If I am being to honest with you, using that word to describe you, just report me. It will still be the truth. You want to keep benefitting from a process that makes others recieve unfair treatment. Those unfairly tagged don't suck, but those who would say they deserved it do. Leeches suck.
What bug? How to know the bug when there is no data to support that is a bug? There is a difference between a bug and Working As Intended.
What you are asking for is to lower the level of the ceiling of AFK penalty or remove it all together. Nothing to do with a bug. Because I havent seen any proof that is a bug, just complaints that players getting AFK without any proof why they are getting AFK. We dont even know if that player is a new player or just an old veteran who just got AFKed.
The biggest leeches in STO are the ones who take from the game, and never give back. I'm definitly not talking about some map camper who annoys simply by doing nothing, nor am I talking about high dpsers as a group. I'm talking about the leeches who suck progress out of forum discussions because they think the forums are just a different place to do PVP. I mean the leeches who think PVE queues only exist to stroke the egos of high dpsers because they happen to be one, and also don't mind sucking the enjoyment out of the queues for everyone else. I'm talking about the leeches who suck civility out of any discussion, by insisting the other side in any differences of opinion are lazy, stupid, or both. Those peope are the leeches that hurt STO the most. You can see these particular leeches in abundance here trying desperately to protect their swamp from being drained.
Most of us don't even want to be in a queue with such arrogant, obnoxious, and self important people. It's your holier than thou attitude, you see? The Tarzan yells, the chest thumping, the throwing of poo from tree limbs don't seem very 'holy' to the rest of us. You complain that reasons we need to look at this mechanic are just 'making lousy excuses to leech'. I think any excuse for why we should have to put up with such a narrow and self serving point of view is even more lousy.
I bet you don't salt your food.
I merely pointed out, thru saracamdetectors data. Besides, attitude goes both aways. How to know who is the majority when you can even provide data?
If you want it constructive, start being constructive yourself. Provide data that the statistics needs to be change rather than your personal assumptions that I have to believe because you say so. Because that is how I started my reply in this thread, that I asked that complainers provide data. And the only one who provided was sarcasmdetector.
You and the OP provided claims -> I asked for the data -> non of your provided data -> i refused to believe -> you all continue to insist in your assumptions -> sarcasmdetector provides data -> I believe sarcasmdetector-> you and OP still dont provide data -> i replied using sarcasmdetectors data -> you replied by not providing data -> now we are here.
The best reason why I think the Devs will eventually side with those of us who see a problem, is because the Devs will remember that all players are customers, and will realize that 'we' who want to keep the game fun for the most people, outnumber those who only want the game to be fun for themselves. So the elitists are doomed to dissapointment.
No smileys for this, I am tired of the preachy BS from those who are paranoid about leeches. Their arguments while often shallow, are hurting normal players progress in discussing solutions to what is obviously a problem that is big enough that lots of people are complaining about it.
I'd rather be playing the game than addressing this, but I will be addressing it as long as it remains an issue, even if it means I play less, and argue more. If you would rather be defending the broken mechanic, instead of playing. I'll be around, and we can both NOT HAVE FUN together. Why don't we both go play instead? You first ...
Qapla.
Again what broken mechanic? Broken for whom? How to know it is broken if you cannot prove what is broken?
Should I believe this is broken because you say so?
There is a difference between broken mechanics and your dislike of the current mechanics. One is mutually exclusive of the other.
And while it's true that clueless newbies who can't hit that very low threshold despite their best efforts (and I have no doubt they do exist, given that the game gives zero instruction on how to properly equip a ship) aren't any team contribution, they should be informed of that fact and advised how to improve their build, not hit over the head with the banhammer and told they were "AFK" with no explanation.
The AFK penalty really should be measuring % active time, not damage.
We have to make multiple assumptions here just to make that scenario happen. Assumption that is a new player because this can happen to a veteran player. That player has so much confidence that it skipped the single missions and went directly to FFA. That player must not research at all either thru choice, ignorance or thru laziness or dont know the fundamentals of the game. That player must be paired with a group of one/ or multiple players who knows how to play the game at the same point in time.
Those are a lot of random stuff going on just for it to happen which has barely nothing to do with new players but players who made the wrong choices including bad luck regardless if it is a new player or veteran.
Remember: Most players don't parse. The game doesn't tell you ANYTHING about how well you did. They just don't know they're bad. Nothing in the game is telling them that they're bad. All they know is that they were suddenly socked with an AFK penalty, when they know they were most assuredly not. They probably can't even tell they didn't get to shoot, since they were blinded by all the kemocide explosions or the Epilepsy Beam.
This is true. Not everyone knows how or wants to parse. The latter makes me wonder why they are allergic to parses.
Parses isn't only there to let you know your DPS. Aspiring tanks can parse to see how much they are getting hit compared to the team and heal/support ships can see how much they are able to heal themselves and others. For the debuffing ships, you can see the overall amount of debuffs people get on their enemies by comparing base and final damage.
Seriously how far can you "pimp out" a level 12 science toon in a freebie cruiser? running retro phasers? gear from delta recruit thing? basic boffs? no doffs? this is a level 12 toon.
Pretty darn well, actually. We used to do this back when it wasn't a totally dead scene, taking one of these newbie birds and loading them up with everything we could possibly staple onto them, and murdering the TRIBBLE out of everyone and everything in Kerrat.
At minimum, you can stick a set of matching weapons you handpicked off the Exchange, or at least from your mission rewards...something the typical player probably has no idea how to do at that point in the game. Or, for that matter, at level 60, given that you were outgunning them.
The point is, you clearly knew what you were doing, which is more than can be said for at least 50% of the players in the game at any level.
Remember: Most players don't parse. The game doesn't tell you ANYTHING about how well you did. They just don't know they're bad. Nothing in the game is telling them that they're bad. All they know is that they were suddenly socked with an AFK penalty, when they know they were most assuredly not. They probably can't even tell they didn't get to shoot, since they were blinded by all the kemocide explosions or the Epilepsy Beam.
You don't need some dps parser, to inform one self they are bad, simple logic of not being able to destroy things fairly quickly on their own + any penalty system, should be a huge clue to this issue!
In other words, if you are dying multiple times by the same single enemy, you need work!
If you take some 5-10mins., to destroy a single non-boss enemy, you need work!
If it takes 2-5 players dying constantly, to defeat a single non-boss enemy, they all need work!
Seriously how far can you "pimp out" a level 12 science toon in a freebie cruiser? running retro phasers? gear from delta recruit thing? basic boffs? no doffs? this is a level 12 toon.
Pretty darn well, actually. We used to do this back when it wasn't a totally dead scene, taking one of these newbie birds and loading them up with everything we could possibly staple onto them, and murdering the TRIBBLE out of everyone and everything in Kerrat.
At minimum, you can stick a set of matching weapons you handpicked off the Exchange, or at least from your mission rewards...something the typical player probably has no idea how to do at that point in the game. Or, for that matter, at level 60, given that you were outgunning them.
The point is, you clearly knew what you were doing, which is more than can be said for at least 50% of the players in the game at any level.
Remember: Most players don't parse. The game doesn't tell you ANYTHING about how well you did. They just don't know they're bad. Nothing in the game is telling them that they're bad. All they know is that they were suddenly socked with an AFK penalty, when they know they were most assuredly not. They probably can't even tell they didn't get to shoot, since they were blinded by all the kemocide explosions or the Epilepsy Beam.
You don't need some dps parser, to inform one self they are bad, simple logic of not being able to destroy things fairly quickly on their own + any penalty system, should be a huge clue to this issue!
In other words, if you are dying multiple times by the same single enemy, you need work!
If you take some 5-10mins., to destroy a single non-boss enemy, you need work!
If it takes 2-5 players dying constantly, to defeat a single non-boss enemy, they all need work!
Etc.
True, but what kind of work and how much of it? That's where the parser helps.
Whaaa... Please stop whining and learn how to build a decent ship and instead of flying around willy nilly learn the fight and contribute. I have seen and read many posts like yours always crying that such and such is broken or OPed. Nothing is OPed in this game and guy you have zero excuse. So stop crying about someone who has taken the time and effort to build a powerful ship. Better yet quit the game and don't come back.
I really hope you get banned from both the forums and the game for your personal attack
No, not the first time we get false positives with the AFK penalty system. It's frustrating, Cryptic should revamp it. As long as a person move around and shoot a little it should be ok. It should not be your dmg vs the other players because as stated, new or poorly equipped player in a high DPS group will get screwed.
If it is AFK penalty system at fault, complainers got to prove that it is the game mechanics TRIBBLE the player not the player making lousy excuses to leech.
side note: the AFK ban also takes into consideration science abilities and healing. throw a couple of grav wells and a hazard emitter during a run and you won't get AFKed.
TL:DR if you got AFK banned in FFA, you most probably deserved it.
I don't think that it really counts as a good test if you've deliberately pimped out your ride to do that kind of damage and are thus outgunning (bad) level 60s. Plus, which T2 ship even has a gravwell, anyway?
There's also the "engine lockout" issue. Since low-level ships have no functioning engines and are pretty much incapable of movement, everything can end up dead before your excuse for a ship manages to drift into the action.
Level 60 toons is automatically reduced level by the game mechanics into level 50. No excuse.
It is a level 50 STF/mission.
How much nerfing does one have to do at level 50? He was doing 1.1k DPS at that test. In hist unnerfed test, he did 18k DPS on many posts above.
That is already a very low DPS even for level 50. Besides there is the HPS factor to consider. That means if the player aint doing even that low DPS they should be healing.
But that is excuse after excuse just to justify leeching. level 50 misison/stf, lower than 1.1k DPS, no to little healing, no contribution but players expect to be not AFKed when barely doing any team contribution?
From what I see, this is a leechers complaint thread.
As you've just proven yourself, leeches don't need to complain. The penalty is easily avoided and all the intentional AFKers know how to avoid it by now.
And while it's true that clueless newbies who can't hit that very low threshold despite their best efforts (and I have no doubt they do exist, given that the game gives zero instruction on how to properly equip a ship) aren't any team contribution, they should be informed of that fact and advised how to improve their build, not hit over the head with the banhammer and told they were "AFK" with no explanation.
The AFK penalty really should be measuring % active time, not damage.
I would totally support an active time measurement to replace a dps based one. Effort, even from a hopelessly unprepared noob in their first queue, is still effort.
I agree the leeches probably already know how to avoid getting caught. THEY are probably out there getting a free ride, having a good time, while we debate all this in the forum.
I have helped many a noob get going, telling them where stuff was, how to get more doffs, and whatever. I am actually quite proud of those who take that help, and go on to surpass me in some area of the game. They remember me. They remember the help. I have been very pleased to be a happy generalist who has good things to pass on to newcomers. I am not the greatest player, but I am far from the worst.
I got my first AFK recently, and in my opinion, (yes, an opinion, I know) anyone who is a reasonably normal player can, and will get AFKs when they don't deserve them. The Noobs will for sure. I am going to work at warning noobs about this possibility. I have expanded the Senior Command in my Fleets, and they are responsible for training the nuggets. We will do as much to coach our people to realize it isn't a perfect game, and to make a few changes in tactical choices, and go try again, anyway.
Active time is all most people who are new can really contribute, since they are limited in so many ways. So yeah, I would back that suggestion.
side note: the AFK ban also takes into consideration science abilities and healing. throw a couple of grav wells and a hazard emitter during a run and you won't get AFKed.
TL:DR if you got AFK banned in FFA, you most probably deserved it.
I don't think that it really counts as a good test if you've deliberately pimped out your ride to do that kind of damage and are thus outgunning (bad) level 60s. Plus, which T2 ship even has a gravwell, anyway?
There's also the "engine lockout" issue. Since low-level ships have no functioning engines and are pretty much incapable of movement, everything can end up dead before your excuse for a ship manages to drift into the action.
Seriously how far can you "pimp out" a level 12 science toon in a freebie cruiser? running retro phasers? gear from delta recruit thing? basic boffs? no doffs? this is a level 12 toon.
I could probably switch her to the T2 c-store escort and maybe push 2k DPS out of her.
Hehe while I would agree with you on any other STF, we're talking about new players here. You know how to fly a ship and can get more damage out of a ship than a regular player can without even trying. In this case, the ship wasn't pimped out, but the pilot was.
Since this is a level 5 and up queue, it's safe to assume that (completely) new players may want to try it out. They may not know any of the basics (ship weapons not on autofire, power levels at stock positions, maximizing firing arcs, mismatched buffs, etc) so yeah, they can get the penalty.
... and they don't deserve it.
As a matter of honor, they don't deserve it. It is the same as being called a thief, or a cheat. False accusations are not just frowned on in most cultures, they are often also considered crimes. Perfect World/Cryptic have set up a system where false accusations are being made, and where innocent people are being punished, without true capability of appealing. Try and get a GM to do anything fast. Try and get a GM to do anything but quote the Customer Service lines and leave you hanging. There is no appeal, yet punishment is handed out after false accusations are made.
It is a matter of honor to me to make this noise! It is a matter of honor that anyone falsely punished be able to receive justice!
It is a matter of honor to stand up to people who take any position that amounts to the following; That it is alright for you to be falsely accused and punished just for not being as good as someone else at playing this game!
Lets suppose I was a complete idiot of a player. Running white gear on my T-one Miranda, having leveled up mostly by accident, or by having 'grandma' help me with the hard stuff. IF I WAS THAT PLAYER, I STILL HAVE A RIGHT TO EXPECT TO PLAY, AND NOT BE FALSELY ACCUSED OR PUNISHED FOR DOING IT!
I could be the worst player ever, EVER! I would still deserve the same right to be here and be treated with respect BY THE GAME, as ANY super special bestest ever player deserves! Anything less is a dishonorable state, and it diminishes Cryptic, it diminishes Perfect World Entertainment, and it diminishes the community. WE ARE THE COMMUNITY!
So we are all stained by this if we let it continue. I would rather carry a worthless leech every time I queued, than have kids fresh off the shuttle getting slapped down when we should be encouraging them! I am so much less capable of carrying a leech than some Kemocite warrior is, and I'd still do it to avoid hurting even a useless, stupid, incompetent noob who just wants to play the game like everyone else, because it is a better, more honorable path to take.
I've NEVER been marked as AFK IN ANY of the stfs or team actions I do. EVER.
I'm either VERY lucky, which my lockbox participation would clearly demonstrate to the contrary, or I'm great at ship builds and have fantastic DPS.... If you believe that, I've got this great starbase in Earth orbit I'd like to sell ya.
BUT OP, I'm not ruling out some random glitch, cause God only knows this game can go all kinds of apeshit on ya at the drop of a hyperspanner.
(SEE MY SIGNATURE) So I'm 100% with you.
Infact my last STF went all lagshit as all get out, with frequent server not respondings, my ship weapons would stop firing for no reason.....
So server stability still has a LONG way to go.
Here's wishing that bug hunting team Trendy is heading the best of luck. They have their work cut out for them.
Again what broken mechanic? Broken for whom? How to know it is broken if you cannot prove what is broken?
Should I believe this is broken because you say so?
There is a difference between broken mechanics and your dislike of the current mechanics. One is mutually exclusive of the other.
Can a player get an AFK penalty even if the are not AFK?
Yes! Yes they can!
Therefore the AFK penalty is broken for people who were not AFK, and therefore in no way deserved the penalty. It can't help but be broken for anyone who stands for fair treatment of all players, irrespective of their dps potential. Even those defending the current penalty have included some of the ones who have been flagged incorrectly, by their own testimony. Look at all the related arguments this week, you will see them, if you can't remember.
Why they got the penalty doesn't matter if they were not in fact actually AFK! It is a wrong penalty! If someone isn't a good player, too dang bad for you! Not being a good player is not the same as being AFK, and it isn't proof they are cheating the system somehow, so it is not a fair reason to punish someone with a penalty. Any AFK accusation, and punishment, when someone is not actually AFK is wrong ethically, factually, and fundamentally! Wrong! Look up the word. That should help.
No other facts are necessary. No other argument is necessary. The truth is simple. The AFK penalty as it exists does in fact punish people who are not AFK. Since it brings an unethical feature to the game, it affects the community, and that means it is broken for everyone in the community, even you, though I doubt you will ever admit it.
Any defense of such a wrong punishment cannot help but make the defender of such wrong punishment look very wrong themselves! At least to anyone with a sense of justice.
I repeat, no other arguments are necessary. It punishes unfairly, incorrectly, at the expense of the weakest players. It needs to change.
To everyone; It's really very very simple. Can a player get an AFK penalty even if the are not AFK? Yes! Yes they can!Therefore the AFK penalty is broken. Broken for people who were not AFK, and therefore in no way deserved the penalty. However it can't help but be broken for anyone who stands for fair treatment of all players, irrespective of their dps potential. Why they got the penalty doesn't matter if they were not in fact actually AFK! It is a wrong penalty!
If someone isn't a good player, too bad! Not being a good player is not the same as being AFK, and it isn't proof they are cheating the system, so it is not a fair reason to punish someone with a penalty. Any AFK accusation, and punishment, when someone is not actually AFK is wrong ethically, factually, and fundamentally! Wrong!
No other facts are necessary. No other argument is necessary. The truth is simple. The AFK penalty as it exists does in fact punish people who are not AFK. Since it brings an unethical feature to the game, it affects the community, and that means it is broken for everyone in the community. Everyone!
Any defense of such a wrong punishment cannot help but be wrong in and of itself.
I repeat, no other arguments are necessary. It punishes unfairly, incorrectly, at the expense of the weakest players. It needs to change.
Whaaa... Please stop whining and learn how to build a decent ship and instead of flying around willy nilly learn the fight and contribute. I have seen and read many posts like yours always crying that such and such is broken or OPed. Nothing is OPed in this game and guy you have zero excuse. So stop crying about someone who has taken the time and effort to build a powerful ship. Better yet quit the game and don't come back.
@admiralkogar I'm sorry(not sorry) that is mooseshiat.
The proof of the pudding is in eating it. Unless you can show an example of someone who wasn't AFK, and in fact meaningfully participating, getting an undeserved AFK ban; your premises are flawed.
The AFK ban is working fairly and as intended.
You need to prove that it isn't.
Any defense of such a wrong punishment cannot help but be wrong in and of itself.
before ANYTHING else, you need to prove that that punishment is wrong. you have yet to do so. All you've provided is your statement that you where participating and being useful, yet you got an AFK ban. I'm sorry(not sorry) but you have no credibility. No one here has to take you at your word. provide proof or go away.
A long time ago i used to work SQA for a computer hardware manufacturer. The devs of the drivers would not look at any bug report unless i provided proof that a glitch existed and a method for reproducing the bug.
This is what you need to do: if you really believe that the AFK ban system is glitched, then you need to both prove the existance of the bug AND show the method to reproduce it (that anyone can replicate).
No one cares how you feel about it. Provide scientific proof. That is all.
I wonder how hard will it be for Cryptic to apply something similar to how SCM determines a valid parse (combat time)... I think such a system would be a far better metric of weeding out AFK players than basing it off DPS?Heal %.
@admiralkogar I'm sorry(not sorry) that is mooseshiat.
The proof of the pudding is in eating it. Unless you can show an example of someone who wasn't AFK, and in fact meaningfully participating, getting an undeserved AFK ban; your premises are flawed.
Unless I intentionally set someone up to fail that could be awhile, and it would require intentional leeching thus invalidating the whole thing. That doesn't change the statements made by others who were AFK'd while not afk, but still think it is somehow fair. Your side of the argument has people who know they were inappropriately AFK'd, and have said so in these arguments. The only difference is that they are on your side, and support your preconception, so what they say gets a pass. 'Meaningfully participating' is a subjective standard that ignores the essential truth that any player who is playing, is participating in a way that is meaningful to them even if we might think they are being idiots.
See the problem with your statement is that you can't prove it is working, either fairly, or as intended. All you have just proved is that your happy making claims you can't prove while dismissing the claims of others who are telling you it is not fair. Fact! Your claim the AFK penalty is working fairly is at least as baseless as any claims that it is not.
You need to prove that it is, or we are at a stalemate. Prove that it is never unfair. Go ahead. Prove that nobody ever received an AFK penalty when they were not actually AFK. It is no less preposterous than what you are saying you want from me. Should I pursue an AFK penalty to prove I can get an AFK penalty? That is not what I call brilliant. When I get the AFK penalty, because I tried to get an AFK penalty, then I would deserve it! Doh!
If everything was fine, nobody would be unhappy about it. If it was working fairly, nobody would spend any time saying it wasn't, because there are certainly better ways to have fun in STO than standing on a soapbox. So. Prove that it is never unfair.
What I said
Any defense of such a wrong punishment cannot help but be wrong in and of itself.
before ANYTHING else, you need to prove that that punishment is wrong. you have yet to do so. All you've provided is your statement that you where participating and being useful, yet you got an AFK ban. I'm sorry(not sorry) but you have no credibility. No one here has to take you at your word. provide proof or go away.
You can't prove it is fair, so YOU go away!
Sorry (not sorry) but nobody has to take your word either, and it is way past being about me, or my one time AFK penalty. This is about anyone who ever got the penalty, or ever might in the future, while just trying to enjoy the game. Especially the new people. If it were just about me, and I knew it wasn't going to happen unexpectedly to someone else, I'd have been gone a long time ago and been playing the game instead of commenting on it. I did run off and earn some marks earlier today, but duty calls, so I return.
In any case, I am only trying to establish that the method used is wrong, not that all penalties issued have been. A proper system would never flag someone who was just playing the game. It doesn't have to be a 'bug' in a technical sense, it just has to be the result of poor planning, poor implementation, and insufficient safeguards.
A long time ago i used to work SQA for a computer hardware manufacturer. The devs of the drivers would not look at any bug report unless i provided proof that a glitch existed and a method for reproducing the bug.
This is what you need to do: if you really believe that the AFK ban system is glitched, then you need to both prove the existance of the bug AND show the method to reproduce it (that anyone can replicate).
No one cares how you feel about it. Provide scientific proof. That is all.
This isn't a bug, like getting stuck in terrain, or falling through the floor, or a map not loading correctly. This is a failure in basic concept. There isn't an error message like when Windows does it's malarkey. There IS however a program based negative result for customers of this product who have any of the following; Poor luck, poor skills, poor technology, or (admittedly) poor personal ethics. The choices about what that program does are based on a failing concept of how to best discourage the last type of players.
Someone wrote the code that inflicts the penalty, and they did it with a goal of foiling the 'poor ethics player' and promoting fairness in participation. The tool may be behaving as it was written to behave, and that isn't technically a bug, However good the code may be, it doesn't change the fact that the program can't make clean enough distinctions. So it punishes people it shouldn't. Like when witch hunters would drown someone to prove they were innocent. If they didn't drown, they were witches, and would then be killed anyway.
If you get the penalty the only possible reason has to be that you must be a leech! If you don't drown, we have to hang you! It sounds like a problem to me.
An experiment that anyone could reproduce ... I suppose . The problem with reproducing it is that it would tend to be random by it's nature. Not everyone has four high dpsers on standby, and a new level 5-10 to go with them on a Fleet Alert. I suppose the low level toon should run white gear, but there is hardly anyone at level 5+ who wouldn't have one or two uncommon or better items by then. No Doffs, and fewer, less skilled Boffs, and little skill of their own. At best a T2 ship, maybe a C-Store with a good console. Ideally your low level toon is played by someone who isn't experienced enough to really know what the skills do yet. After that, assuming your other four have a solid T6 ship with a purposeful build concept, it will depend at least partly on the enemy. You may get enough consistency in enemy behavior over multiple missions, to have reliable results, either way.
It's still a witch trial.
My advice for a good test. You (experienced player that you are) go run 100 Fleet Alerts, each with a level 5-10 toon, and using just the gear they have earned to date, no hand me downs. C-store is acceptable, as long as it is level appropriate. Do your best. See if you get any AFK penalties. Record the whole thing for YouTube. We can all watch, and see how many times you were punished for just playing.
I think that experiment is repeatable.
Do that AFK free, and I'll let this go. I don't believe you can.
This is true. Not everyone knows how or wants to parse. The latter makes me wonder why they are allergic to parses.
Well, parsers are an external program. Some people, not entirely without reason, are simply leery of installing a third-party program and simply do not understand the manner in which parsers interact with the game (not at all). They just see it as a dangerous third-party add-on they don't want any part of.
Aspiring tanks can parse to see how much they are getting hit compared to the team and heal/support ships can see how much they are able to heal themselves and others. For the debuffing ships, you can see the overall amount of debuffs people get on their enemies by comparing base and final damage.
All this, of course, assumes that players understand these concepts at all. The game certainly doesn't teach this anywhere. Many don't even know these are things. Players, certainly, don't help either. You'll get yelled at for messing up someone's Reciprocity, or preventing them from getting their GDF on, or even nonsensical and unjustified things.
before ANYTHING else, you need to prove that that punishment is wrong. you have yet to do so. All you've provided is your statement that you where participating and being useful, yet you got an AFK ban. I'm sorry(not sorry) but you have no credibility. No one here has to take you at your word. provide proof or go away.
Here's the thing, though: It'll pretty much never, ever happen to people like us. We understand the game. We understand parsers. We understand what kinds of things trigger the AFK penalty. For someone to be able to "submit proof", he'd need to dump a parse log of him being plainly and visibly bad. At that point you know what you're doing and are intentionally sandbagging: You probably deserved it.
But consider some random clueless player:
1. He doesn't actually know what Bridge Officer powers DO, because the game never tells him. There are buttons, his dudes come up with them, he occasionally pushes them. He doesn't realize you can get new ones or change them, as the game never explains this. He may not even have an appropriate set of bridge officers for his ship, because the set he was given was wildly inappropriate for the ship he has now in, and now he has no room for more.
2. He doesn't know how to equip his ship. The game never tells you how do this properly. His ship came with stuff, but all of these things are, as we all know, wildly inappropriate and ineffective, with guns that don't point in the same direction so there's no direction he can turn his ship to actually shoot anything with them.. Occasionally he found things that gave bigger tooltip numbers than the stuff on his ship, or maybe was a more impressive color than white, and put it in. He doesn't know that these items are incompatible with the powers on his ship because above, or that the guns don't all point in the same direction and that his engine is about 5 marks out of date and moves at the speed of molasses in liquid nitrogen.
3. He's successfully completed the episodes, in which he was the only player, and does not realize that battles are not supposed to take half an hour.
4. He's successfully queued for Normal difficulty missions, completed them easily without dying, because he was carried and didn't do enough damage to pull aggro. Because serious players avoid these missions due to their lack of pay, he never got shut out. Now he feels ready for Advanced or even Elite. He's a good player! He never dies! Missions are successful!
Now this guy queues up and ends up with 3 guys from DPS-land. They take off like they were fired from a gun, in action before the guy can even load the level. Clearly, nobody's waiting for pets today. He's not a hardcore player, he doesn't have an overclocked i7 with 80 GBs of RAM and an a 5 TB SSD. Everything in the level is reduced to burning rubble in blinding flashes of Kemocide before his MK V engine can carry him to the battle. He might have fired a torpedo and a few cannonballs, because those weapons point forward, but the target was destroyed before any of those shots arrived. Still, he's shooting, or so he thinks, and blinding explosions fill the screen (dropping him to about 5 fps, so he can't really see what's going on). Still, it's awesome! Everything dies! The level is steamrolled. He only died once when a cube exploded on him. The DPS guys, as is typical, don't even really notice he exists and don't actually care. The mission is over!
But hey...something's up. "Wasn't I supposed to get a reward? What's this 'AFK penalty'?"
Now, most people don't go to the forums. It's said that maybe 1% of players ever show up here. Which means that every time we get one of these threads, this has already happened a hundred times. This system has been around for quite some time now. I really, really doubt that people are showing up to issue these complaints because they're STILL trying to leech queues. Who does that? Leeching queues is terrible, because queues are terrible. Even back when this was a thing, those people were a minority. These days I've never seen an actual leecher, just the grossly incompetent.
Most of what you say can apply to a toon that is simply new. You make one of the better arguments I've seen in support of examining this, so thanks.
Unless I intentionally set someone up to fail that could be awhile, and it would require intentional leeching thus invalidating the whole thing. That doesn't change the statements made by others who were AFK'd while not afk, but still think it is somehow fair. Your side of the argument has people who know they were inappropriately AFK'd, and have said so in these arguments. The only difference is that they are on your side, and support your preconception, so what they say gets a pass. 'Meaningfully participating' is a subjective standard that ignores the essential truth that any player who is playing, is participating in a way that is meaningful to them even if we might think they are being idiots.
They deserve it. There is a ceiling. If they dont deserve the AFk penalty, then they should record and file a complaint. Absent of recording, how to prove they dont deserve it?
And once they have a log, very to easy to know if they went beyond 1% damage of team or not.
See the problem with your statement is that you can't prove it is working, either fairly, or as intended. All you have just proved is that your happy making claims you can't prove while dismissing the claims of others who are telling you it is not fair. Fact! Your claim the AFK penalty is working fairly is at least as baseless as any claims that it is not.
Use the search the button and the internet search about the AFK penalty ceiling. The reason why everyone is saying it has been already accepted and admitted and using valid statistical information. You on the other hand have nothing but wild claims.
If you actually use the search button, the AFK penalty has been going for years, with AFK complaint threads similar to this happening every few months wherein several expert players having to explain it over to players who barge in forums thinking that they know more about the game than the experts.
If you even look further this is the second thread of the OP within 2 months about AFK penalty and without any record nor proof but just wild claims like yourself
You need to prove that it is, or we are at a stalemate. Prove that it is never unfair. Go ahead. Prove that nobody ever received an AFK penalty when they were not actually AFK. It is no less preposterous than what you are saying you want from me. Should I pursue an AFK penalty to prove I can get an AFK penalty? That is not what I call brilliant. When I get the AFK penalty, because I tried to get an AFK penalty, then I would deserve it! Doh!
If everything was fine, nobody would be unhappy about it. If it was working fairly, nobody would spend any time saying it wasn't, because there are certainly better ways to have fun in STO than standing on a soapbox. So. Prove that it is never unfair.
What I said
You can't prove it is fair, so YOU go away!
How to know if the one who did AFK penalty actually did something if you didnt record it? I had the same sentiment as sacrcasmdetector.
The devs will react the same way, find your proof that the AFK penalty is a bug, not a mere lack of contribution from your part.
Sorry (not sorry) but nobody has to take your word either, and it is way past being about me, or my one time AFK penalty. This is about anyone who ever got the penalty, or ever might in the future, while just trying to enjoy the game. Especially the new people. If it were just about me, and I knew it wasn't going to happen unexpectedly to someone else, I'd have been gone a long time ago and been playing the game instead of commenting on it. I did run off and earn some marks earlier today, but duty calls, so I return.
In any case, I am only trying to establish that the method used is wrong, not that all penalties issued have been. A proper system would never flag someone who was just playing the game. It doesn't have to be a 'bug' in a technical sense, it just has to be the result of poor planning, poor implementation, and insufficient safeguards.
No. The problem wont go away if you remove the AFK penalty. The problem will just transfer from you personal vested interest to those who dislike increased combat time.
The end result of removing AFK is reduction of the quality of queues because there is not some sort of ceiling of what a player can do. In FFA, 5 players doing 300 DPS would result into a 2 hour FFA combat time finish.
In ISA, that would result into a 7 hour combat time finish.
Removing AFK wont remove the main essence of the problem is player/s lack of contribution.
In a business standpoint, it would just transfer customer dissatisfaction from those who barely make any contribution or the same players like yourself, to those who dislike increased combat times/dislike carrying other players load which are most likely average DPS players.
An experiment that anyone could reproduce ... I suppose . The problem with reproducing it is that it would tend to be random by it's nature. Not everyone has four high dpsers on standby, and a new level 5-10 to go with them on a Fleet Alert. I suppose the low level toon should run white gear, but there is hardly anyone at level 5+ who wouldn't have one or two uncommon or better items by then. No Doffs, and fewer, less skilled Boffs, and little skill of their own. At best a T2 ship, maybe a C-Store with a good console. Ideally your low level toon is played by someone who isn't experienced enough to really know what the skills do yet. After that, assuming your other four have a solid T6 ship with a purposeful build concept, it will depend at least partly on the enemy. You may get enough consistency in enemy behavior over multiple missions, to have reliable results, either way.
It's still a witch trial.
My advice for a good test. You (experienced player that you are) go run 100 Fleet Alerts, each with a level 5-10 toon, and using just the gear they have earned to date, no hand me downs. C-store is acceptable, as long as it is level appropriate. Do your best. See if you get any AFK penalties. Record the whole thing for YouTube. We can all watch, and see how many times you were punished for just playing.
Quality of contribution assuming level 50 is dependent on pilot quality. Very little to do with gears and stuff with regards to AFK penalty avoidance.
And pilot quality is dependent on the effort the pilot makes on researching on fundamentals. And it is not dependent if the player is new or not. It is more dependent on the attitude of the player to actually make an action of improvement, self criticism, time management.
Besides, why should sarcasmdetector do whatever you are asking to do?
Shouldnt be the COMPLAINERS BE THE ONE TO DO THE RECORDING?
With regards to witch trial, Witch trial is what you are doing because you are accusing the game's fault not your fault without any valid proof or recording. sarcasmdetector even have logs to prove it. There are also so many threads and explanations about AFK penalty for years.
Let me give you advice, start doing your own research and use the search button. You spend so much time in posting but little to time to actually gather facts and information.
I really think some changes need to be made. Rather than being based on DPS or HPS:
Base it off combat time just like SCM. Maybe set the threshold at 60% combat time. Less than 60% combat time will net you an AFK penalty.
Set XP/Spec Points per mob to be awarded only if the player does damage equivalent 1% of that mob's HP or healed an equivalent of 1% of your target's (team or self) HP to prevent leeching.
AFK penalties will be removed if player disconnects. Disconnected players won't get any of the rewards either.
@admiralkogar I'm sorry(not sorry) that is mooseshiat.
The proof of the pudding is in eating it. Unless you can show an example of someone who wasn't AFK, and in fact meaningfully participating, getting an undeserved AFK ban; your premises are flawed.
The AFK ban is working fairly and as intended.
You need to prove that it isn't.
Any defense of such a wrong punishment cannot help but be wrong in and of itself.
before ANYTHING else, you need to prove that that punishment is wrong. you have yet to do so. All you've provided is your statement that you where participating and being useful, yet you got an AFK ban. I'm sorry(not sorry) but you have no credibility. No one here has to take you at your word. provide proof or go away.
A long time ago i used to work SQA for a computer hardware manufacturer. The devs of the drivers would not look at any bug report unless i provided proof that a glitch existed and a method for reproducing the bug.
This is what you need to do: if you really believe that the AFK ban system is glitched, then you need to both prove the existance of the bug AND show the method to reproduce it (that anyone can replicate).
No one cares how you feel about it. Provide scientific proof. That is all.
If you need proof that it is the AFK penalty isn't fair (which is IMPOSSIBLE FYI as fair is a FEELING) then why shouldn't people on the otherside need proof that it is fair? You all seem to be thinking about JUST your point of view. Now the second part about as intended. If terribad players who were active all through the gameplay and were active gets the penalty...well, it OBVIOUSLY is not working as intended as what the penalty intends is IN THE FRAKING NAME. What you want isn't an AFK penalty. You want a you are a bad player penalty (or you got DCed or SNR penalty since I have gotten this a few times because of those).
That said, I'm actually for having this system in place...just tweaked for the couple of 5-60 missions (because really, that needs to be tweaked). I actually like this system as it keeps the leechers out of advanced and elites. It has actually reduced the people who AFK pretty significantly. The system, while not working as intended and probably being unfair to some people is doing a pretty good job of keeping inconsiderate players from being inconsiderate. Now I am sure that a system of active time like people suggested could work better...but that is precious dev time. I would rather they spend that elsewhere since this system actually works pretty well...even if it maybe considered unfair by some. It's a matter of priorties...and this game has WAY more important things to fix then the AFK penalty system (now a quick tweak so the damage of lower level players gets wieghted for the purpose of the AFK system something that can be done by one person in less then one hour...so they should do that).
Soon as you remove the code for the AFK penalty on a few runs guess where the leechers will go? It won't be to the advanced queues.
Should it be modified on a by per player basis? Sure, but only if it is scaled based on level. But then you need to take a look at what each level maximum potential is and scale the penalty based on that. But what is to say that my level 10 captain won't be more or less a leecher because I failed, or deliberately under equipped him? I go do a run with him he gets a penalty after it was scaled to level, and bob's your uncle I complain because I felt unjustly treated because I was "active." Sure I might have been flying around, but flying around and shooting are two different things.
Let's not forget where the default power levels are for most new ships. Balanced. Not exactly idea or optimal for dealing damage now is it? Combine that with the starter equipment the ship gets plus the gear from your old ship and you run a combination of old items.
Each time I have run FFA with my low levels I haven't seen an huge increase my weapon damage or ship performance as a result of "being lvl 50". Most of the time I've only seen the lvl 50 captain skills show up for that match.
But these reasons right here is why I have found a good sized group of players where I can run organized runs and avoid all these types of issues. I even solo most of the runs myself because I got bored. Just wish for some of them I didn't have to actually get a warp out group to create them.... But that is a different post.
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Comments
Beat me to it....some peeps are just born to be douchebags....
If it is AFK penalty system at fault, complainers got to prove that it is the game mechanics TRIBBLE the player not the player making lousy excuses to leech.
Level 60 toons is automatically reduced level by the game mechanics into level 50. No excuse.
It is a level 50 STF/mission.
How much nerfing does one have to do at level 50? He was doing 1.1k DPS at that test. In hist unnerfed test, he did 18k DPS on many posts above.
That is already a very low DPS even for level 50. Besides there is the HPS factor to consider. That means if the player aint doing even that low DPS they should be healing.
But that is excuse after excuse just to justify leeching. level 50 misison/stf, lower than 1.1k DPS, no to little healing, no contribution but players expect to be not AFKed when barely doing any team contribution?
From what I see, this is a leechers complaint thread.
Seriously how far can you "pimp out" a level 12 science toon in a freebie cruiser? running retro phasers? gear from delta recruit thing? basic boffs? no doffs? this is a level 12 toon.
I could probably switch her to the T2 c-store escort and maybe push 2k DPS out of her.
Exactly.
Qapla.
Do players even actually play FFA to even know level 60 players are automatically nerfed to level 50. That this nothing to do with kemo cheese. That FFa is normal mission with level 50 mobs.
100k+ cheeses are nerfed down to 20k dps or less in practical application in Ffa. This has been proven. With 4 20k dpsers, 1 needs to be doing less than 800 dps with 0 to limited heals. But the reality is only 1 is most likely cheeses is in the mission with a very small probability of teaming up with that player. Why? Only 100-200 spread in all the times zones can do 100k+ dps in ISA. Even if they do team up with that type of player, the afker would be most likely doing 300 or less dps with barely no heals.
Prove first that one is not leeching at all since complainers don't have proof that they are contributing to the team and just got an AFK out of the blue. Blaming others, the mechanics rather than self.
Like I said, this thread is a leechers complaint thread since complainers have no proof at all they contributed to team and just one of those lousy excuses to justify leeching.
From what I see, your biased against any argument that doesn't support your preconceptions.
I have seen you demand 'evidence' from anyone who doesn't fit your narrative, but when someone who does support your narrative makes some pretty much 'unverified' statements, you are all to happy to accept them. THAT undermines your position by demonstrating a lack of sincerity. You conveniently fail to notice the contradictions in your own arguments. He said he was flying level 12, but you say he was doing it in a level 50 queue. Gee! How did he do that? If it was a true 'level 50 queue' he would have to be level '50' or more. It had to be a queue that had a low entry gate, at least level 12+. Also the game force feeds you all your early Boffs, so where do you get gravity well from? Most likely, you don't get it at all, true in more than one context here, imho.
My theory is that you don't want to see a bug get fixed because you think you will have to give something up if the Devs make it right. Well that IS selfish. Some have called people with concerns about this mechanic 'whiners'. Those same people whine about "OMG, we NEEEEED the AFK penalties to save us from the dreaded LEECHES. Anyone who isn't like us must be LEEEEEECHES!" Well I got some bad news for you. Since the bug favors you at the expense of others, not wanting it fixed makes you a leech. If I am being to honest with you, using that word to describe you, just report me. It will still be the truth. You want to keep benefitting from a process that makes others recieve unfair treatment. Those unfairly tagged don't suck, but those who would say they deserved it do. Leeches suck.
The biggest leeches in STO are the ones who take from the game, and never give back. I'm definitly not talking about some map camper who annoys simply by doing nothing, nor am I talking about high dpsers as a group. I'm talking about the leeches who suck progress out of forum discussions because they think the forums are just a different place to do PVP. I mean the leeches who think PVE queues only exist to stroke the egos of high dpsers because they happen to be one, and also don't mind sucking the enjoyment out of the queues for everyone else. I'm talking about the leeches who suck civility out of any discussion, by insisting the other side in any differences of opinion are lazy, stupid, or both. Those peope are the leeches that hurt STO the most. You can see these particular leeches in abundance here trying desperately to protect their swamp from being drained.
Most of us don't even want to be in a queue with such arrogant, obnoxious, and self important people. It's your holier than thou attitude, you see? The Tarzan yells, the chest thumping, the throwing of poo from tree limbs don't seem very 'holy' to the rest of us. You complain that reasons we need to look at this mechanic are just 'making lousy excuses to leech'. I think any excuse for why we should have to put up with such a narrow and self serving point of view is even more lousy.
I bet you don't salt your food.
The best reason why I think the Devs will eventually side with those of us who see a problem, is because the Devs will remember that all players are customers, and will realize that 'we' who want to keep the game fun for the most people, outnumber those who only want the game to be fun for themselves. So the elitists are doomed to dissapointment.
No smileys for this, I am tired of the preachy BS from those who are paranoid about leeches. Their arguments while often shallow, are hurting normal players progress in discussing solutions to what is obviously a problem that is big enough that lots of people are complaining about it.
I'd rather be playing the game than addressing this, but I will be addressing it as long as it remains an issue, even if it means I play less, and argue more. If you would rather be defending the broken mechanic, instead of playing. I'll be around, and we can both NOT HAVE FUN together. Why don't we both go play instead? You first ...
Qapla.
I'm pretty sure your 'level 60' compatriot was the one leeching in that example ;p
Which makes my point that low dps doesn't scale in a useful way in many circumstances, which carries to the point that IF it isn't a useful measure, it is to easy for it to issue an unfair penalty to a low dps boat, when someone with high dps capability is working at it.
Out of fairness maybe your 'level 60' just had incredible connection difficulties?
Qapla.
As you've just proven yourself, leeches don't need to complain. The penalty is easily avoided and all the intentional AFKers know how to avoid it by now.
And while it's true that clueless newbies who can't hit that very low threshold despite their best efforts (and I have no doubt they do exist, given that the game gives zero instruction on how to properly equip a ship) aren't any team contribution, they should be informed of that fact and advised how to improve their build, not hit over the head with the banhammer and told they were "AFK" with no explanation.
The AFK penalty really should be measuring % active time, not damage.
Hehe while I would agree with you on any other STF, we're talking about new players here. You know how to fly a ship and can get more damage out of a ship than a regular player can without even trying. In this case, the ship wasn't pimped out, but the pilot was.
Since this is a level 5 and up queue, it's safe to assume that (completely) new players may want to try it out. They may not know any of the basics (ship weapons not on autofire, power levels at stock positions, maximizing firing arcs, mismatched buffs, etc) so yeah, they can get the penalty.
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I base my arguments on the data not random preconceptions. that is why I am asking for data right in the beginning of this thread even from you.
Check the mob levels. It just so happens that level 12 can enter. Also if you enter with a level 60 toon, the game doesnt nerf you to level 12, but nerfs you to level 50.
What bug? How to know the bug when there is no data to support that is a bug? There is a difference between a bug and Working As Intended.
What you are asking for is to lower the level of the ceiling of AFK penalty or remove it all together. Nothing to do with a bug. Because I havent seen any proof that is a bug, just complaints that players getting AFK without any proof why they are getting AFK. We dont even know if that player is a new player or just an old veteran who just got AFKed.
I merely pointed out, thru saracamdetectors data. Besides, attitude goes both aways. How to know who is the majority when you can even provide data?
If you want it constructive, start being constructive yourself. Provide data that the statistics needs to be change rather than your personal assumptions that I have to believe because you say so. Because that is how I started my reply in this thread, that I asked that complainers provide data. And the only one who provided was sarcasmdetector.
You and the OP provided claims -> I asked for the data -> non of your provided data -> i refused to believe -> you all continue to insist in your assumptions -> sarcasmdetector provides data -> I believe sarcasmdetector-> you and OP still dont provide data -> i replied using sarcasmdetectors data -> you replied by not providing data -> now we are here.
Again what broken mechanic? Broken for whom? How to know it is broken if you cannot prove what is broken?
Should I believe this is broken because you say so?
There is a difference between broken mechanics and your dislike of the current mechanics. One is mutually exclusive of the other.
We have to make multiple assumptions here just to make that scenario happen. Assumption that is a new player because this can happen to a veteran player. That player has so much confidence that it skipped the single missions and went directly to FFA. That player must not research at all either thru choice, ignorance or thru laziness or dont know the fundamentals of the game. That player must be paired with a group of one/ or multiple players who knows how to play the game at the same point in time.
Those are a lot of random stuff going on just for it to happen which has barely nothing to do with new players but players who made the wrong choices including bad luck regardless if it is a new player or veteran.
This is true. Not everyone knows how or wants to parse. The latter makes me wonder why they are allergic to parses.
Parses isn't only there to let you know your DPS. Aspiring tanks can parse to see how much they are getting hit compared to the team and heal/support ships can see how much they are able to heal themselves and others. For the debuffing ships, you can see the overall amount of debuffs people get on their enemies by comparing base and final damage.
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You don't need some dps parser, to inform one self they are bad, simple logic of not being able to destroy things fairly quickly on their own + any penalty system, should be a huge clue to this issue!
In other words, if you are dying multiple times by the same single enemy, you need work!
If you take some 5-10mins., to destroy a single non-boss enemy, you need work!
If it takes 2-5 players dying constantly, to defeat a single non-boss enemy, they all need work!
Etc.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
True, but what kind of work and how much of it? That's where the parser helps.
I really hope you get banned from both the forums and the game for your personal attack
I would totally support an active time measurement to replace a dps based one. Effort, even from a hopelessly unprepared noob in their first queue, is still effort.
I agree the leeches probably already know how to avoid getting caught. THEY are probably out there getting a free ride, having a good time, while we debate all this in the forum.
I have helped many a noob get going, telling them where stuff was, how to get more doffs, and whatever. I am actually quite proud of those who take that help, and go on to surpass me in some area of the game. They remember me. They remember the help. I have been very pleased to be a happy generalist who has good things to pass on to newcomers. I am not the greatest player, but I am far from the worst.
I got my first AFK recently, and in my opinion, (yes, an opinion, I know) anyone who is a reasonably normal player can, and will get AFKs when they don't deserve them. The Noobs will for sure. I am going to work at warning noobs about this possibility. I have expanded the Senior Command in my Fleets, and they are responsible for training the nuggets. We will do as much to coach our people to realize it isn't a perfect game, and to make a few changes in tactical choices, and go try again, anyway.
Active time is all most people who are new can really contribute, since they are limited in so many ways. So yeah, I would back that suggestion.
Qapla.
... and they don't deserve it.
As a matter of honor, they don't deserve it. It is the same as being called a thief, or a cheat. False accusations are not just frowned on in most cultures, they are often also considered crimes. Perfect World/Cryptic have set up a system where false accusations are being made, and where innocent people are being punished, without true capability of appealing. Try and get a GM to do anything fast. Try and get a GM to do anything but quote the Customer Service lines and leave you hanging. There is no appeal, yet punishment is handed out after false accusations are made.
It is a matter of honor to me to make this noise! It is a matter of honor that anyone falsely punished be able to receive justice!
It is a matter of honor to stand up to people who take any position that amounts to the following; That it is alright for you to be falsely accused and punished just for not being as good as someone else at playing this game!
Lets suppose I was a complete idiot of a player. Running white gear on my T-one Miranda, having leveled up mostly by accident, or by having 'grandma' help me with the hard stuff. IF I WAS THAT PLAYER, I STILL HAVE A RIGHT TO EXPECT TO PLAY, AND NOT BE FALSELY ACCUSED OR PUNISHED FOR DOING IT!
I could be the worst player ever, EVER! I would still deserve the same right to be here and be treated with respect BY THE GAME, as ANY super special bestest ever player deserves! Anything less is a dishonorable state, and it diminishes Cryptic, it diminishes Perfect World Entertainment, and it diminishes the community. WE ARE THE COMMUNITY!
So we are all stained by this if we let it continue. I would rather carry a worthless leech every time I queued, than have kids fresh off the shuttle getting slapped down when we should be encouraging them! I am so much less capable of carrying a leech than some Kemocite warrior is, and I'd still do it to avoid hurting even a useless, stupid, incompetent noob who just wants to play the game like everyone else, because it is a better, more honorable path to take.
Anyway, thanks.
Qapla.
I'm either VERY lucky, which my lockbox participation would clearly demonstrate to the contrary, or I'm great at ship builds and have fantastic DPS.... If you believe that, I've got this great starbase in Earth orbit I'd like to sell ya.
BUT OP, I'm not ruling out some random glitch, cause God only knows this game can go all kinds of apeshit on ya at the drop of a hyperspanner.
(SEE MY SIGNATURE) So I'm 100% with you.
Infact my last STF went all lagshit as all get out, with frequent server not respondings, my ship weapons would stop firing for no reason.....
So server stability still has a LONG way to go.
Here's wishing that bug hunting team Trendy is heading the best of luck. They have their work cut out for them.
Can a player get an AFK penalty even if the are not AFK?
Yes! Yes they can!
Therefore the AFK penalty is broken for people who were not AFK, and therefore in no way deserved the penalty. It can't help but be broken for anyone who stands for fair treatment of all players, irrespective of their dps potential. Even those defending the current penalty have included some of the ones who have been flagged incorrectly, by their own testimony. Look at all the related arguments this week, you will see them, if you can't remember.
Why they got the penalty doesn't matter if they were not in fact actually AFK! It is a wrong penalty! If someone isn't a good player, too dang bad for you! Not being a good player is not the same as being AFK, and it isn't proof they are cheating the system somehow, so it is not a fair reason to punish someone with a penalty. Any AFK accusation, and punishment, when someone is not actually AFK is wrong ethically, factually, and fundamentally! Wrong! Look up the word. That should help.
No other facts are necessary. No other argument is necessary. The truth is simple. The AFK penalty as it exists does in fact punish people who are not AFK. Since it brings an unethical feature to the game, it affects the community, and that means it is broken for everyone in the community, even you, though I doubt you will ever admit it.
Any defense of such a wrong punishment cannot help but make the defender of such wrong punishment look very wrong themselves! At least to anyone with a sense of justice.
I repeat, no other arguments are necessary. It punishes unfairly, incorrectly, at the expense of the weakest players. It needs to change.
Qapla.
Yes! Yes they can! Therefore the AFK penalty is broken. Broken for people who were not AFK, and therefore in no way deserved the penalty. However it can't help but be broken for anyone who stands for fair treatment of all players, irrespective of their dps potential. Why they got the penalty doesn't matter if they were not in fact actually AFK! It is a wrong penalty!
If someone isn't a good player, too bad! Not being a good player is not the same as being AFK, and it isn't proof they are cheating the system, so it is not a fair reason to punish someone with a penalty. Any AFK accusation, and punishment, when someone is not actually AFK is wrong ethically, factually, and fundamentally! Wrong!
No other facts are necessary. No other argument is necessary. The truth is simple. The AFK penalty as it exists does in fact punish people who are not AFK. Since it brings an unethical feature to the game, it affects the community, and that means it is broken for everyone in the community. Everyone!
Any defense of such a wrong punishment cannot help but be wrong in and of itself.
I repeat, no other arguments are necessary. It punishes unfairly, incorrectly, at the expense of the weakest players. It needs to change.
Qapla.
The proof of the pudding is in eating it. Unless you can show an example of someone who wasn't AFK, and in fact meaningfully participating, getting an undeserved AFK ban; your premises are flawed.
The AFK ban is working fairly and as intended.
You need to prove that it isn't.
before ANYTHING else, you need to prove that that punishment is wrong. you have yet to do so. All you've provided is your statement that you where participating and being useful, yet you got an AFK ban. I'm sorry(not sorry) but you have no credibility. No one here has to take you at your word. provide proof or go away.
A long time ago i used to work SQA for a computer hardware manufacturer. The devs of the drivers would not look at any bug report unless i provided proof that a glitch existed and a method for reproducing the bug.
This is what you need to do: if you really believe that the AFK ban system is glitched, then you need to both prove the existance of the bug AND show the method to reproduce it (that anyone can replicate).
No one cares how you feel about it. Provide scientific proof. That is all.
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Unless I intentionally set someone up to fail that could be awhile, and it would require intentional leeching thus invalidating the whole thing. That doesn't change the statements made by others who were AFK'd while not afk, but still think it is somehow fair. Your side of the argument has people who know they were inappropriately AFK'd, and have said so in these arguments. The only difference is that they are on your side, and support your preconception, so what they say gets a pass. 'Meaningfully participating' is a subjective standard that ignores the essential truth that any player who is playing, is participating in a way that is meaningful to them even if we might think they are being idiots.
See the problem with your statement is that you can't prove it is working, either fairly, or as intended. All you have just proved is that your happy making claims you can't prove while dismissing the claims of others who are telling you it is not fair. Fact! Your claim the AFK penalty is working fairly is at least as baseless as any claims that it is not.
You need to prove that it is, or we are at a stalemate. Prove that it is never unfair. Go ahead. Prove that nobody ever received an AFK penalty when they were not actually AFK. It is no less preposterous than what you are saying you want from me. Should I pursue an AFK penalty to prove I can get an AFK penalty? That is not what I call brilliant. When I get the AFK penalty, because I tried to get an AFK penalty, then I would deserve it! Doh!
If everything was fine, nobody would be unhappy about it. If it was working fairly, nobody would spend any time saying it wasn't, because there are certainly better ways to have fun in STO than standing on a soapbox. So. Prove that it is never unfair.
What I said
What you said ...
You can't prove it is fair, so YOU go away!
Sorry (not sorry) but nobody has to take your word either, and it is way past being about me, or my one time AFK penalty. This is about anyone who ever got the penalty, or ever might in the future, while just trying to enjoy the game. Especially the new people. If it were just about me, and I knew it wasn't going to happen unexpectedly to someone else, I'd have been gone a long time ago and been playing the game instead of commenting on it. I did run off and earn some marks earlier today, but duty calls, so I return.
In any case, I am only trying to establish that the method used is wrong, not that all penalties issued have been. A proper system would never flag someone who was just playing the game. It doesn't have to be a 'bug' in a technical sense, it just has to be the result of poor planning, poor implementation, and insufficient safeguards.
This isn't a bug, like getting stuck in terrain, or falling through the floor, or a map not loading correctly. This is a failure in basic concept. There isn't an error message like when Windows does it's malarkey. There IS however a program based negative result for customers of this product who have any of the following; Poor luck, poor skills, poor technology, or (admittedly) poor personal ethics. The choices about what that program does are based on a failing concept of how to best discourage the last type of players.
Someone wrote the code that inflicts the penalty, and they did it with a goal of foiling the 'poor ethics player' and promoting fairness in participation. The tool may be behaving as it was written to behave, and that isn't technically a bug, However good the code may be, it doesn't change the fact that the program can't make clean enough distinctions. So it punishes people it shouldn't. Like when witch hunters would drown someone to prove they were innocent. If they didn't drown, they were witches, and would then be killed anyway.
If you get the penalty the only possible reason has to be that you must be a leech! If you don't drown, we have to hang you! It sounds like a problem to me.
An experiment that anyone could reproduce ... I suppose . The problem with reproducing it is that it would tend to be random by it's nature. Not everyone has four high dpsers on standby, and a new level 5-10 to go with them on a Fleet Alert. I suppose the low level toon should run white gear, but there is hardly anyone at level 5+ who wouldn't have one or two uncommon or better items by then. No Doffs, and fewer, less skilled Boffs, and little skill of their own. At best a T2 ship, maybe a C-Store with a good console. Ideally your low level toon is played by someone who isn't experienced enough to really know what the skills do yet. After that, assuming your other four have a solid T6 ship with a purposeful build concept, it will depend at least partly on the enemy. You may get enough consistency in enemy behavior over multiple missions, to have reliable results, either way.
It's still a witch trial.
My advice for a good test. You (experienced player that you are) go run 100 Fleet Alerts, each with a level 5-10 toon, and using just the gear they have earned to date, no hand me downs. C-store is acceptable, as long as it is level appropriate. Do your best. See if you get any AFK penalties. Record the whole thing for YouTube. We can all watch, and see how many times you were punished for just playing.
I think that experiment is repeatable.
Do that AFK free, and I'll let this go. I don't believe you can.
Qapla.
Most of what you say can apply to a toon that is simply new. You make one of the better arguments I've seen in support of examining this, so thanks.
Qapla
They deserve it. There is a ceiling. If they dont deserve the AFk penalty, then they should record and file a complaint. Absent of recording, how to prove they dont deserve it?
And once they have a log, very to easy to know if they went beyond 1% damage of team or not.
Use the search the button and the internet search about the AFK penalty ceiling. The reason why everyone is saying it has been already accepted and admitted and using valid statistical information. You on the other hand have nothing but wild claims.
If you actually use the search button, the AFK penalty has been going for years, with AFK complaint threads similar to this happening every few months wherein several expert players having to explain it over to players who barge in forums thinking that they know more about the game than the experts.
If you even look further this is the second thread of the OP within 2 months about AFK penalty and without any record nor proof but just wild claims like yourself
How to know if the one who did AFK penalty actually did something if you didnt record it? I had the same sentiment as sacrcasmdetector.
The devs will react the same way, find your proof that the AFK penalty is a bug, not a mere lack of contribution from your part.
No. The problem wont go away if you remove the AFK penalty. The problem will just transfer from you personal vested interest to those who dislike increased combat time.
The end result of removing AFK is reduction of the quality of queues because there is not some sort of ceiling of what a player can do. In FFA, 5 players doing 300 DPS would result into a 2 hour FFA combat time finish.
In ISA, that would result into a 7 hour combat time finish.
Removing AFK wont remove the main essence of the problem is player/s lack of contribution.
In a business standpoint, it would just transfer customer dissatisfaction from those who barely make any contribution or the same players like yourself, to those who dislike increased combat times/dislike carrying other players load which are most likely average DPS players.
Quality of contribution assuming level 50 is dependent on pilot quality. Very little to do with gears and stuff with regards to AFK penalty avoidance.
And pilot quality is dependent on the effort the pilot makes on researching on fundamentals. And it is not dependent if the player is new or not. It is more dependent on the attitude of the player to actually make an action of improvement, self criticism, time management.
Besides, why should sarcasmdetector do whatever you are asking to do?
Shouldnt be the COMPLAINERS BE THE ONE TO DO THE RECORDING?
With regards to witch trial, Witch trial is what you are doing because you are accusing the game's fault not your fault without any valid proof or recording. sarcasmdetector even have logs to prove it. There are also so many threads and explanations about AFK penalty for years.
Let me give you advice, start doing your own research and use the search button. You spend so much time in posting but little to time to actually gather facts and information.
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Soon as you remove the code for the AFK penalty on a few runs guess where the leechers will go? It won't be to the advanced queues.
Should it be modified on a by per player basis? Sure, but only if it is scaled based on level. But then you need to take a look at what each level maximum potential is and scale the penalty based on that. But what is to say that my level 10 captain won't be more or less a leecher because I failed, or deliberately under equipped him? I go do a run with him he gets a penalty after it was scaled to level, and bob's your uncle I complain because I felt unjustly treated because I was "active." Sure I might have been flying around, but flying around and shooting are two different things.
Let's not forget where the default power levels are for most new ships. Balanced. Not exactly idea or optimal for dealing damage now is it? Combine that with the starter equipment the ship gets plus the gear from your old ship and you run a combination of old items.
Each time I have run FFA with my low levels I haven't seen an huge increase my weapon damage or ship performance as a result of "being lvl 50". Most of the time I've only seen the lvl 50 captain skills show up for that match.
But these reasons right here is why I have found a good sized group of players where I can run organized runs and avoid all these types of issues. I even solo most of the runs myself because I got bored. Just wish for some of them I didn't have to actually get a warp out group to create them.... But that is a different post.
Top DPS 102k