Meat in the 24th Century

gulberat

I think you're forgetting milk, which if some is replicated, will be at lower demand but still something I think gourmet cooks would want. I think it would be possible to expect humane animal husbandry to become the norm, with milk cows given nice, spacious barns, adequate pasture, and generally 19th century pre-industrial conditions aside for better veterinary care. Your premium (real) milk would become a truly local product you go to the farmer's market for in your town or city (heck, maybe the old fashioned milkman will come back into fashion since this would be a niche item ). The few remaining cattle slaughtered for meat might live their lives in similarly nice conditions prior to (in the 24th century) a humane phased stun putting them out deeply and peacefully before the slaughter.

nrobbiec

I suppose in a money-less society your 'premium' items would probably be closer to novelty items? Make it an experience instead of a necessity.

That and for the social aspect of dining with guests or restaurants instead of you know eat or starve.

gulberat

In Trek, "novelty" might be a good description.

deaftravis05

don't phasers burn? I don't want my meat burnt before it's dead

gulberat

deaftravis05 wrote: »

don't phasers burn? I don't want my meat burnt before it's dead

Depends on the setting. When our heroes get hit with a heavy stun, I've never seen a burn mark, whereas I do see that if the phaser itself is doing the killing.

wombat140

(Yes, milk, fair enough. I did think of that, but was just oversimplifying as the point I was making was that there wouldn't be existing herds of cattle that would become suddenly useless to humans if we all stopped eating meat because it's not going to happen that suddenly. If anything, the demand for milk would help with that situation as cows would still be useful for something.)

legendarylycan

and not just the milk, but everything derived from it too, like cheese or ice cream or all those various desserts that you eat one little piece and you gain 10 pounds from​​

deaftravis05

shadowfang240 wrote: »

and not just the milk, but everything derived from it too, like cheese or ice cream or all those various desserts that you eat one little piece and you gain 10 pounds from​​

hmhmmm... chocolate cheesecake....

markhawkman

Yeah, but that's a considerably smaller number of cows.

nrobbiec

It hit me the people that refuse replicated food at basically 24th century hipsters. Replicated meat is too mainstream for them.

What if farm animals are kept for milk and and eggs and body parts are grown for meat via some mumbo jumbo futuristic stem cell extraction.

However there's be less farms than we have today and certainly less pressure on farmers in such a different world.

mustrumridcully0

When you have cow for milk, you also tend to ahve cow for meat - because all the male cows and the calves that you don't need to produce the milk or would need the milk instead of you...

wombat140

nrobbiec wrote: »

It hit me the people that refuse replicated food at basically 24th century hipsters. Replicated meat is too mainstream for them.

haha yes! There'll always be those people!
(Of course there'll always also be a few people, especially spacers or former spacers, who have a deep-seated THING about replicated food owing to weird that has happened to them. Like how it always seems odd to me that any of the Star Trek crews could ever be comfortable with holodecks, after all the sinister illusory paradises that they've almost been tempted into staying behind in. Though, to be fair, the glaring example of that is "The Menagerie" which is before the holodeck era.)

nrobbiec wrote: »

Yes but take into account technobabble-y stuff and there's no longer a NEED for things.

When there's no longer a social, economical, environmental NEEDS for farming where does that leave you? People grow plants as hobbies are people going to raise and slaughter animals to what stay connected to their roots and not feel dependent on technology?

Is it ethical to farm animals for meat when it becomes basically unnecessary? On Earth that is, colonies will vary.

That's a good point, especially about the colonies. I work on the assumption that replicators (and transporters which seem to be related) take large amounts of energy, so that the only places where they could actually be your main food supply would be core worlds like Earth and Vulcan; a few of the biggest and oldest colonies like Deneva; and aboard a starship, which has to generate fantastical amounts of energy anyway to operate the warp drive. (Basically what Jonsills said in his LC #56: http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/comment/11617581#Comment_11617581 ) Other places would still be getting most of their food from normal farming, or from less hand-wavy, more interesting science-fiction possibilities.

For example: we were talking about milk products, but milk production hasn't entirely got its own ethical house in order. A cow only produces milk when she's recently had a calf, so a dairy cow has to be producing calves one after another her whole productive life; and this is far more calves than the farmer actually needs so most of them are killed. Would it be beyond the wit of science (25th-century science, at least) to get a cow to produce milk without having had a calf? Yes, anything involving mucking about with hormones would probably have side effects - but so has being pregnant!

For another less grim example: David Brin's short story "Tank Farm Dynamo". I love that one; the whole thing is just a riff on the scientific possibilities of how such a self-sustaining orbiting farm might work, all worked out in scrupulous, understandable detail, and yet it all comes together into a very funny human story.

gulberat

@wombat140, your point about the ethics of milk and dairy farming is why I suggested that in a Star Trek society with replicators, that dairy farming would return to preindustrial techniques with the exception of superior veterinary care, as opposed to industrialized/mass production driven techniques.

markhawkman

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

When you have cow for milk, you also tend to ahve cow for meat - because all the male cows and the calves that you don't need to produce the milk or would need the milk instead of you...

True. most "dairy" cows get eaten eventually. Even the ones that get used for milk. Eventually they get old... and replaced.

gulberat

markhawkman wrote: »

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

When you have cow for milk, you also tend to ahve cow for meat - because all the male cows and the calves that you don't need to produce the milk or would need the milk instead of you...

True. most "dairy" cows get eaten eventually. Even the ones that get used for milk. Eventually they get old... and replaced.

I'd bet that on a 24th-century "family farm" (like I said, I'd imagine very small scale, near-preindustrial farms), part of the novelty of having the real thing in the first place would also be the novelty--for people in that time frame--of contact with real animals. Older/nonproductive animals I would imagine in Trek would be put out to pasture and maybe even be part of a petting zoo and the like. Nothing to do but eat grass and get loved on.

markhawkman

I'm not convinced an old milk cow would be a good candidate. Especially due to the "old" part, and how it probably doesn't get handled much at the farm

gulberat

markhawkman wrote: »

I'm not convinced an old milk cow would be a good candidate. Especially due to the "old" part, and how it probably doesn't get handled much at the farm

With modern farming practices yeah, I imagine there wouldn't be a lot of handling. A small-scale family farm though...the owner is going to have a lot more contact with the animals.

gulberat

[sorry, forum acting up--double post]

maelstromvortex

nrobbiec wrote: »

Something I was curious about, there are (I don't know why) always people in the Star Trek universe complaining about replicators and so for someone like Joseph Sisko who refuses to serve replicated food but serves meat, how does he get his stock.

Are farming, fishing and abattoirs still thriving industries?

My gorn has a deal with Woadie and the sanitation crew of DS9 to deliver any unwanted rodents to a cage at Quarks so they can be roasted and served upon his wishes for a little latinum. He also routinely beams in the carcasses of defeated ship crews to add them to his buffet. It's not cannibalism long as they're not gorn.