Reunification in season 11?

themightythor00

I think it is about time STO touched a little more on the subject of Vulcan Romulan Reunification. now Im not asking for the Republic to join the federation and unify with Vulcan I am saying it would be nice to maybe escort a group of unificationist Romulans to Vulcan on a diplomatic mission then maybe doing something on Vulcan with them like defending them from Tal Shiar or whatever cryptic wants to be in there way during there journey or maybe like a distress call from P'Jem where we have to go protect some Vulcans and Romulans practicing the ways of Surak from the Tal Shiar or pirates or whatever. also it would be cool to have some Vulcan NPCs walking around New Romulas Command and also like another discussion addressed, having the ability to have a Vulcan Commanders and Bridge officers that are actually Republic Citizens and not just helpers from the Federation.

Here Is a link to that other discussion if you haven't seen it already http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203452/cryptic-allow-republic-to-have-vulcan-captains-bridge-crew

kodachikuno

can I shoot the vulcans? :P

themightythor00

kodachikuno wrote: »

can I shoot the vulcans? :P

I don't think Vulcans can get shot. It would be illogical of them to do so.

kodachikuno

Im not logical so I should be able to kill them

royalsovereign

Or at least harvest brain tissue to steal their Psi powers.

Joking aside, reunification is a nice touchy-feely idea, but completely unrealistic.

themightythor00

I think it would be logical for th

royalsovereign wrote: »

Or at least harvest brain tissue to steal their Psi powers.

Joking aside, reunification is a nice touchy-feely idea, but completely unrealistic.

like I said I'm not asking for complete Reunification. Just to see the movement a little bit more whether on Vulcan or new Romulus.

guljarol

themightythor00 wrote: »

I think it is about time STO touched a little more on the subject of Vulcan Romulan Reunification. now Im not asking for the Republic to join the federation and unify with Vulcan I am saying it would be nice to maybe escort a group of unificationist Romulans to Vulcan on a diplomatic mission then maybe doing something on Vulcan with them like defending them from Tal Shiar or whatever cryptic wants to be in there way during there journey or maybe like a distress call from P'Jem where we have to go protect some Vulcans and Romulans practicing the ways of Surak from the Tal Shiar or pirates or whatever. also it would be cool to have some Vulcan NPCs walking around New Romulas Command and also like another discussion addressed, having the ability to have a Vulcan Commanders and Bridge officers that are actually Republic Citizens and not just helpers from the Federation.

Here Is a link to that other discussion if you haven't seen it already http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203452/cryptic-allow-republic-to-have-vulcan-captains-bridge-crew

The blue part can be done: a Foundry mission I know it's not what you really want, but it is a solution for those, who'd like to their toons to "experience" that.

The red part: nothing we can do about. All we can do is pretend that perhaps some of the people we encounter are Vulcans. Or give our Rom Boffs flat foreheads and pretend they're Vulcans. It won't give us Vulcan traits (unless we are Fed allied and actually can get a Vulcan, although probably not wearing a Rom uniform), but would work for RP.​​

gradii

Reunification as in one species I doubt will ever happen, as Romulans and Vulcans have had enough time to develop very different cultures and have their own civilizations theyre proud of (or logically agreeable to).

However the spirit of reunification as in, treating each other as the brothers/sisters/cousins they are is definitely possible.

strathkin

I doubt the original author of this thread meant to suggest reunification would see an end to Vulcan's Government or Federation Relationship nor would it suggest an end to the republic. Reunification is as much symbolic as it is diplomatic, which does recognize the common heritage, or as you've suggested family ties. The romulan's who lived under D'tan's leadership (Student of Spock) have more in common with Vulcan's despite their unique traits. It presented a strong but warm people with common Vulcan ancestry, that evolved more like humans (emotionally mature) but less cold or opportunistic, than Romulans under the old Guard like Sela or Hakeev. The Romulan story arc begins showing people who found a new way of life focused on family, culture, education and social ties; before the attack on Verinat when they were forced to defend themselves.

I too would like to see this revisited at some point in the future, as it make a great story for a future episode or Anniversary event.

themightythor00

strathkin wrote: »

I doubt the original author of this thread meant to suggest reunification would see an end to Vulcan's Government or Federation Relationship nor would it suggest an end to the republic. Reunification is as much symbolic as it is diplomatic which does recognize the common heritage or as you've suggested family ties. The romulan's who lived under D'tan's leadership (Student of Spock) have more in common with Vulcan's despite unique traits. It presented a strong but warm people with common Vulcan ancestry that evolved more like humans (emotionally mature) but less cold or opportunistic than Romulans under the old Guard like Sela or Hakeev. The Romulan story arc begins showing people who found a new way of life focused on family, culture, education and social ties, before the attack on Verinat when they were forced to defend themselves.

I too would like to see this revisited at some point in the future as it make a great story during for an episode or Anniversary event.

I couldn't of said it better myself.

guljarol

strathkin wrote: »

I doubt the original author of this thread meant to suggest reunification would see an end to Vulcan's Government or Federation Relationship nor would it suggest an end to the republic. Reunification is as much symbolic as it is diplomatic, which does recognize the common heritage, or as you've suggested family ties. The romulan's who lived under D'tan's leadership (Student of Spock) have more in common with Vulcan's despite their unique traits. It presented a strong but warm people with common Vulcan ancestry, that evolved more like humans (emotionally mature) but less cold or opportunistic, than Romulans under the old Guard like Sela or Hakeev. The Romulan story arc begins showing people who found a new way of life focused on family, culture, education and social ties; before the attack on Verinat when they were forced to defend themselves.

I too would like to see this revisited at some point in the future, as it make a great story for a future episode or Anniversary event.

I can't say I agree fully with it. It can be true for many Romulans in the Republic, yes, but being in the Republic under D'Tan's leadership doesn't mean automatically that one is very pro-Vulcan. Many may not even think about the notion at all. They just found home, which they can call Romulan (instead of state-less roaming group of people without a home), glad they have something again.

The difference I see if no Tal'Shiar watching them. No dictatorship in their lives. They're free. Some of them can be cold and opportunistic all they want. Some of them would be family people. Just like before the destruction of Romulus some were cold and opportunistic, and some were family people.

Romulans are still Romulans. Perhaps changes a little by the tragedy that fell upon them, but what I see as the biggest difference is that no old men are dragged in the middle of the night by Tal'Shiar for things they said out loud. The state they live in is better. Their approach to life didn't have to change at all, just their comfort.

So some of them would be pro-Vulcan, "let's call Vulcans brothers and sister", just like they were before. Remember, that D'Tan didn't feel close to Vulcans because of Spock. Spock was an important figure in his life, naturally, but D'Tan's parents were as important, giving him traditional Vulcan toys and raising him to feel kinship with their cousins.

Republic can be full of people who just don't care, and want to go on with their lives. Or those who don't want to have anything to do with Vulcans. Or anybody else.

My point is that the Republic is full of all sorts of Romulans, who flocked together to be together again. It doesn't mean they're all Unificationists. For all we know, they could be many openly against it - and the main difference between RR and RSE is that they won't go to prison after saying that out loud. And I'm sure they appreciate that. ​​

gurluas

The Khaiell colony is doing fine, and it's in New Romulan space now. It'd be nice to see how it's developing.

protogoth

guljarol wrote: »

strathkin wrote: »

I doubt the original author of this thread meant to suggest reunification would see an end to Vulcan's Government or Federation Relationship nor would it suggest an end to the republic. Reunification is as much symbolic as it is diplomatic, which does recognize the common heritage, or as you've suggested family ties. The romulan's who lived under D'tan's leadership (Student of Spock) have more in common with Vulcan's despite their unique traits. It presented a strong but warm people with common Vulcan ancestry, that evolved more like humans (emotionally mature) but less cold or opportunistic, than Romulans under the old Guard like Sela or Hakeev. The Romulan story arc begins showing people who found a new way of life focused on family, culture, education and social ties; before the attack on Verinat when they were forced to defend themselves.

I too would like to see this revisited at some point in the future, as it make a great story for a future episode or Anniversary event.

I can't say I agree fully with it. It can be true for many Romulans in the Republic, yes, but being in the Republic under D'Tan's leadership doesn't mean automatically that one is very pro-Vulcan. Many may not even think about the notion at all. They just found home, which they can call Romulan (instead of state-less roaming group of people without a home), glad they have something again.

The difference I see if no Tal'Shiar watching them. No dictatorship in their lives. They're free. Some of them can be cold and opportunistic all they want. Some of them would be family people. Just like before the destruction of Romulus some were cold and opportunistic, and some were family people.

Romulans are still Romulans. Perhaps changes a little by the tragedy that fell upon them, but what I see as the biggest difference is that no old men are dragged in the middle of the night by Tal'Shiar for things they said out loud. The state they live in is better. Their approach to life didn't have to change at all, just their comfort.

So some of them would be pro-Vulcan, "let's call Vulcans brothers and sister", just like they were before. Remember, that D'Tan didn't feel close to Vulcans because of Spock. Spock was an important figure in his life, naturally, but D'Tan's parents were as important, giving him traditional Vulcan toys and raising him to feel kinship with their cousins.

Republic can be full of people who just don't care, and want to go on with their lives. Or those who don't want to have anything to do with Vulcans. Or anybody else.

My point is that the Republic is full of all sorts of Romulans, who flocked together to be together again. It doesn't mean they're all Unificationists. For all we know, they could be many openly against it - and the main difference between RR and RSE is that they won't go to prison after saying that out loud. And I'm sure they appreciate that. ​​

This is how I see it as well. D'Tan's coalition may have more seats in the Senate than any other coalition, but even those who are in D'Tan's coalition need not be Reunificationists. Some are Reconciliationists instead (preferring reconciliation with the Vulcans, but not reunification), while others are simply on board with the Reformist and/or Republican movements. And that's just within the one coalition.

bltrrn

This Traditionalist supports Reunification.

gradii

protogoth wrote: »

guljarol wrote: »

strathkin wrote: »

I doubt the original author of this thread meant to suggest reunification would see an end to Vulcan's Government or Federation Relationship nor would it suggest an end to the republic. Reunification is as much symbolic as it is diplomatic, which does recognize the common heritage, or as you've suggested family ties. The romulan's who lived under D'tan's leadership (Student of Spock) have more in common with Vulcan's despite their unique traits. It presented a strong but warm people with common Vulcan ancestry, that evolved more like humans (emotionally mature) but less cold or opportunistic, than Romulans under the old Guard like Sela or Hakeev. The Romulan story arc begins showing people who found a new way of life focused on family, culture, education and social ties; before the attack on Verinat when they were forced to defend themselves.

I too would like to see this revisited at some point in the future, as it make a great story for a future episode or Anniversary event.

I can't say I agree fully with it. It can be true for many Romulans in the Republic, yes, but being in the Republic under D'Tan's leadership doesn't mean automatically that one is very pro-Vulcan. Many may not even think about the notion at all. They just found home, which they can call Romulan (instead of state-less roaming group of people without a home), glad they have something again.

The difference I see if no Tal'Shiar watching them. No dictatorship in their lives. They're free. Some of them can be cold and opportunistic all they want. Some of them would be family people. Just like before the destruction of Romulus some were cold and opportunistic, and some were family people.

Romulans are still Romulans. Perhaps changes a little by the tragedy that fell upon them, but what I see as the biggest difference is that no old men are dragged in the middle of the night by Tal'Shiar for things they said out loud. The state they live in is better. Their approach to life didn't have to change at all, just their comfort.

So some of them would be pro-Vulcan, "let's call Vulcans brothers and sister", just like they were before. Remember, that D'Tan didn't feel close to Vulcans because of Spock. Spock was an important figure in his life, naturally, but D'Tan's parents were as important, giving him traditional Vulcan toys and raising him to feel kinship with their cousins.

Republic can be full of people who just don't care, and want to go on with their lives. Or those who don't want to have anything to do with Vulcans. Or anybody else.

My point is that the Republic is full of all sorts of Romulans, who flocked together to be together again. It doesn't mean they're all Unificationists. For all we know, they could be many openly against it - and the main difference between RR and RSE is that they won't go to prison after saying that out loud. And I'm sure they appreciate that. ​​

This is how I see it as well. D'Tan's coalition may have more seats in the Senate than any other coalition, but even those who are in D'Tan's coalition need not be Reunificationists. Some are Reconciliationists instead (preferring reconciliation with the Vulcans, but not reunification), while others are simply on board with the Reformist and/or Republican movements. And that's just within the one coalition.

Anyone remember the NPC conversation on the flotilla? about the Holodeck program D'Tan wasn't happy about?

in other words I agree, lol.

kodachikuno

gradii wrote: »

Anyone remember the NPC conversation on the flotilla? about the Holodeck program D'Tan wasn't happy about?

in other words I agree, lol.

Wait he found my assassination simulator?

gradii

kodachikuno wrote: »

gradii wrote: »

Anyone remember the NPC conversation on the flotilla? about the Holodeck program D'Tan wasn't happy about?

in other words I agree, lol.

Wait he found my assassination simulator?

So that's who made it!

starswordc

guljarol wrote: »

strathkin wrote: »

I doubt the original author of this thread meant to suggest reunification would see an end to Vulcan's Government or Federation Relationship nor would it suggest an end to the republic. Reunification is as much symbolic as it is diplomatic, which does recognize the common heritage, or as you've suggested family ties. The romulan's who lived under D'tan's leadership (Student of Spock) have more in common with Vulcan's despite their unique traits. It presented a strong but warm people with common Vulcan ancestry, that evolved more like humans (emotionally mature) but less cold or opportunistic, than Romulans under the old Guard like Sela or Hakeev. The Romulan story arc begins showing people who found a new way of life focused on family, culture, education and social ties; before the attack on Verinat when they were forced to defend themselves.

I too would like to see this revisited at some point in the future, as it make a great story for a future episode or Anniversary event.

I can't say I agree fully with it. It can be true for many Romulans in the Republic, yes, but being in the Republic under D'Tan's leadership doesn't mean automatically that one is very pro-Vulcan. Many may not even think about the notion at all. They just found home, which they can call Romulan (instead of state-less roaming group of people without a home), glad they have something again.

The difference I see if no Tal'Shiar watching them. No dictatorship in their lives. They're free. Some of them can be cold and opportunistic all they want. Some of them would be family people. Just like before the destruction of Romulus some were cold and opportunistic, and some were family people.

Romulans are still Romulans. Perhaps changes a little by the tragedy that fell upon them, but what I see as the biggest difference is that no old men are dragged in the middle of the night by Tal'Shiar for things they said out loud. The state they live in is better. Their approach to life didn't have to change at all, just their comfort.

So some of them would be pro-Vulcan, "let's call Vulcans brothers and sister", just like they were before. Remember, that D'Tan didn't feel close to Vulcans because of Spock. Spock was an important figure in his life, naturally, but D'Tan's parents were as important, giving him traditional Vulcan toys and raising him to feel kinship with their cousins.

Republic can be full of people who just don't care, and want to go on with their lives. Or those who don't want to have anything to do with Vulcans. Or anybody else.

My point is that the Republic is full of all sorts of Romulans, who flocked together to be together again. It doesn't mean they're all Unificationists. For all we know, they could be many openly against it - and the main difference between RR and RSE is that they won't go to prison after saying that out loud. And I'm sure they appreciate that. ​​

protogoth wrote: »

guljarol wrote: »

strathkin wrote: »

I doubt the original author of this thread meant to suggest reunification would see an end to Vulcan's Government or Federation Relationship nor would it suggest an end to the republic. Reunification is as much symbolic as it is diplomatic, which does recognize the common heritage, or as you've suggested family ties. The romulan's who lived under D'tan's leadership (Student of Spock) have more in common with Vulcan's despite their unique traits. It presented a strong but warm people with common Vulcan ancestry, that evolved more like humans (emotionally mature) but less cold or opportunistic, than Romulans under the old Guard like Sela or Hakeev. The Romulan story arc begins showing people who found a new way of life focused on family, culture, education and social ties; before the attack on Verinat when they were forced to defend themselves.

I too would like to see this revisited at some point in the future, as it make a great story for a future episode or Anniversary event.

I can't say I agree fully with it. It can be true for many Romulans in the Republic, yes, but being in the Republic under D'Tan's leadership doesn't mean automatically that one is very pro-Vulcan. Many may not even think about the notion at all. They just found home, which they can call Romulan (instead of state-less roaming group of people without a home), glad they have something again.

The difference I see if no Tal'Shiar watching them. No dictatorship in their lives. They're free. Some of them can be cold and opportunistic all they want. Some of them would be family people. Just like before the destruction of Romulus some were cold and opportunistic, and some were family people.

Romulans are still Romulans. Perhaps changes a little by the tragedy that fell upon them, but what I see as the biggest difference is that no old men are dragged in the middle of the night by Tal'Shiar for things they said out loud. The state they live in is better. Their approach to life didn't have to change at all, just their comfort.

So some of them would be pro-Vulcan, "let's call Vulcans brothers and sister", just like they were before. Remember, that D'Tan didn't feel close to Vulcans because of Spock. Spock was an important figure in his life, naturally, but D'Tan's parents were as important, giving him traditional Vulcan toys and raising him to feel kinship with their cousins.

Republic can be full of people who just don't care, and want to go on with their lives. Or those who don't want to have anything to do with Vulcans. Or anybody else.

My point is that the Republic is full of all sorts of Romulans, who flocked together to be together again. It doesn't mean they're all Unificationists. For all we know, they could be many openly against it - and the main difference between RR and RSE is that they won't go to prison after saying that out loud. And I'm sure they appreciate that. ​​

This is how I see it as well. D'Tan's coalition may have more seats in the Senate than any other coalition, but even those who are in D'Tan's coalition need not be Reunificationists. Some are Reconciliationists instead (preferring reconciliation with the Vulcans, but not reunification), while others are simply on board with the Reformist and/or Republican movements. And that's just within the one coalition.

Ditto. Thing about the Republic is that it is not a monolithic society. Though it's led by a prominent Unificationist and that blithering idiot Sugihara focuses on it when he goes into blather mode in "Turning Point", its citizenry runs the gamut from Unificationists, to refugees, to far-flung colonies and their militias that were untouched by Hobus, to defectors from the Tal Shiar and the legitimate Romulan Imperial Fleet. (Khre'Enriov Kererek was one of the latter: he joined up because he thought D'Tan could help him control the Tal Shiar's influence in the military.)

My Fed Rom is not opposed to diplomatic ties to Vulcan, but she's anti-reunification.

deaftravis05

Canon does not establish the Romulans uniting with the Federation anytime soon. Probably by the 31st century according to Daniel's DNA... apparently. However, It seems the Klingons will join the Federation first.

bltrrn

deaftravis05 wrote: »

Canon does not establish the Romulans uniting with the Federation anytime soon. Probably by the 31st century according to Daniel's DNA... apparently. However, It seems the Klingons will join the Federation first.

Time is a very abstract thing, you know?

protogoth

Indeed, as I pointed out somewhere else recently ...
Ah, here we are:

protogoth wrote: »

anazonda wrote: »

The klingons need to apply for federation membership first.

It kinda makes sense, considering the Klingons WILL join the federation evetually.

Only divisions that make sense to still restrict is SFA, Klingon Shipyards and Romulan Command... Since they are essentially restricted areas.

I apologize most heartily and sincerely for quoting that other (and lesser) famous SF franchise, but:
"Always in motion, the future is."

We've already seen "the Prime Timeline" change more than once (anybody else remember the Ed Begley, Jr., episodes from VOY that explained why World War III did not happen in the 1990s as TOS foretold?), so in spite of ENT's inglorious vision of a dystopian future in which the Federation has assimilated all and erased the distinctions of culture in favor of a homgenized and tasteless mush, events have continued to unfold which have produced new causes, and new causes will yield new effects. Put another way, free will means that nothing about the future is written in stone.

Put yet another way, it ain't true till it happens, and CBS or Paramount could always change the vision for the future with some new series or movie. After all, I might eventually write a screenplay that CBS or Paramount picks up in which the future features citizens of a decadent Federation saved from their increasingly oppressive government by the New Romulan Republic, and the consequent petitioning of the liberated peoples of the Federation petitioning for membership in the Republic ...

I'm for the suggestion to tear down the walls to visitors, but I'm opposed to any call for political/cultural union. One-galaxy government is not the only way to peace or progress. Differences exist, and should not be feared or hated, as Mister Roddenberry wisely pointed out, but that doesn't mean that we should all join together and slowly melt into one society devoid of cultural diversity. I also am for the idea of unlocking species from factions: let RRF have Vulcans, Andorians, Orions, Klingons; let Starfleet have Romulans, Remans, Klingons, Orions; let the KDF have Vulcans, Andorians, Humans, Betazoids -- allowing the individual to choose her or his own allegiance is a far more realistic and friendly way to encourage tolerance and friendship than dragging everyone together under a single government where dissenters have no option to relocate to a more sympathetic jurisdiction.

((Bit of redundancy there in the use of "petitioning" due to editing the post before I posted and not going back to fix it later, but it's still intelligible.))

So, yeah, even though both TNG and ENT said it, it doesn't mean that's the way it will go down when the prime timeline finally arrives at that point. And, tbqf, I hope the Klingon Empire and New Romulan Republic and United Federation of Planets continue to be sovereign and independent (although I also hope that the Klingon "Empire" grows beyond imperialism and the "United Federation" of Planets grows beyond centralized control freakism and the arrogant mentality of masked cultural imperialism).

skylarcomet

I want that movie/series based on the NRR saving the people of the Federation from themselves.

bltrrn

..or that the UFP fizzles out altogether.

themightythor00

bltrrn wrote: »

..or that the UFP fizzles out altogether.

what do you people have against the United Federation of Planets?

bltrrn

themightythor00 wrote: »

bltrrn wrote: »

..or that the UFP fizzles out altogether.

what do you people have against the United Federation of Planets?

Do you really want to press the button?

deaftravis05

ignore the mirror troll :P

protogoth

themightythor00 wrote: »

bltrrn wrote: »

..or that the UFP fizzles out altogether.

what do you people have against the United Federation of Planets?

A sterilized civilization stifles dissent, art, and cultural diversity. Why, just look at the basic design of Federation starships, virtually untouched since 2151, and anything even remotely different is subjected to howls of derision by the masses devoid of imagination and averse to the slightest deviation from "normalcy," such derision as happened with the Intel ships, never mind that the basic design for most of them is identical to the typical forward (and usually upward) saucer, rearward (and usually upward) nacelles, and central (and usually downward) main hull, and that the other (the Phantom) is obviously inspired to some extent by the Defiant. But noooooo, they "don't look like" Starfleet vessels (They don't? *snort* Yes, they do!), and in some cases, the only real basis for that idea was the fact that they had a bluish hull material instead of white or grey. *rolls eyes* Go back and watch "The Way to Eden," and pay particular attention to the following statements:

"There are many who are uncomfortable with what we have created. It is almost a biological rebellion. A profound revulsion against the planned communities, the programming, the sterilised, artfully balanced atmospheres."
-- Commander Spock

"There's a nasty little bug evolved in the last few years, Jim. Our aseptic, sterilised civilisations produced it. Synthococcus novae. It's deadly. We can immunise against it, but haven't learned to lick all the problems yet."
-- Doctor McCoy

Notice that both use the term "sterilized," that Spock alludes to something nefarious-sounding when he speaks of "programming," and that McCoy does not refer to "sterlized environments," but rather, to "sterlized civilizations."

Now let's go one step further. For all its pretense of freedom, the United Federation of Planets is imperialistic, in the cultural sense (spreading their own cultural values, relying on the universal translator instead of encouraging education in other languages and thus understanding of diverse worldviews [since language is the primary vehicle of culture and establishes worldview], etc), if not in more explicit ways (and arguably, in some of those ways as well, without being blatantly obvious about it like some empires, so, instead of sending an armada to conquer the next planet they discover, they simply awe the natives with economic prowess and shiny technology, until the natives petition for Federation membership -- not alliance, but full-fledged membership, submitting to the central government). The use of the terms "united" and "federation" implies loss of sovereignty and inability to secede for those polities which join, and centralization of government, which are key features of "empire." And yet they hide under euphemistic names like "federation" instead of making honest admission of their imperial nature.

tolmarius

You seem to have a disconnect when it comes to the word "united". It's not a dirty word in any sense. Spock's line there was part of thinly veiled socio-political commentary about hippie counterculture. Like most TOS episodes, it had an underlying Aesop relevant to 1960's Ameria. And Dr. McCoy's line was about the advent of a new illness that 23rd century medicine had yet to cure. Neither are relevant to your odd fear of a common word which, in the case of the UFP, means that all the different races and planets under its aegis have banded together for common defense, shared values, and realization that they were stronger together. The " united" in UFP does not make Vulcans the same as Humans, nor does it make Andorians the same as Bajorans. Starfleet seems to have its own "culture", but so does every organization that regularly integrates diverse people into a coherent whole. The US Military takes people of greatly varied cultural and economic background, and must turn them into a single instrument, much like smelting chunks of iron together into a single bar, and hammerngit into a sword. By necessity, a Human and a Vulcan in Starfleet will have a lot more in common with each other after 15 years or academy training and service than any Human and Vulcan who have never met each other before. And since the common denominator in Star Trek is that it focuses on Starfleet, we rarely see how vastly different the various cultures are.

protogoth

tolmarius wrote: »

You seem to have a disconnect when it comes to the word "united". It's not a dirty word in any sense. Spock's line there was part of thinly veiled socio-political commentary about hippie counterculture. Like most TOS episodes, it had an underlying Aesop relevant to 1960's Ameria. And Dr. McCoy's line was about the advent of a new illness that 23rd century medicine had yet to cure. Neither are relevant to your odd fear of a common word which, in the case of the UFP, means that all the different races and planets under its aegis have banded together for common defense, shared values, and realization that they were stronger together. The " united" in UFP does not make Vulcans the same as Humans, nor does it make Andorians the same as Bajorans. Starfleet seems to have its own "culture", but so does every organization that regularly integrates diverse people into a coherent whole. The US Military takes people of greatly varied cultural and economic background, and must turn them into a single instrument, much like smelting chunks of iron together into a single bar, and hammerngit into a sword. By necessity, a Human and a Vulcan in Starfleet will have a lot more in common with each other after 15 years or academy training and service than any Human and Vulcan who have never met each other before. And since the common denominator in Star Trek is that it focuses on Starfleet, we rarely see how vastly different the various cultures are.

Why do you feel the need to tell me this, Kara?
"Spock's line there was part of thinly veiled socio-political commentary about hippie counterculture. Like most TOS episodes, it had an underlying Aesop relevant to 1960's Ameria."
I was there.

As for "united/union/unity," it's not supposed to be conflated with "uniformity," but in actual practice, that's how it plays out far too often for people who pay attention to ignore that potential. There are even groups which talk about "unity" and feel the need to point out that "unity does not mean or require uniformity." If the potential did not exist for abuse and misunderstanding, then the need to point that out would not exist.

tolmarius

Perhaps you should make the distinction then, rather than reinforcing that association.

kodachikuno

Perhaps people need to remember that Roddenberry was all about a functional communist society and his universe reflects that. He wasn't trying to show utopia, he was trying to show a functional sterilized society that had moved past "base" materialism and had managed to find means to provide for the masses so that there was no longer famine or plague.

---

oh I cant wait to see proto's rant on this one