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Becoming pure energy beings evidently means growing TRIBBLE and child-bearing hips.
fulleatherjacket
Member Posts: 980 Arc User
Did anyone else notice that the ancient Iconians were rail-thin and androgynous, but the modern Iconians have womanly figures? Most noticeable is that T'ket had a masculine voice 200,000 years ago but her present form sounds like an angry woman. What gives?
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Heralds are all male.
And since reproduction requires a male and female, that means either the Iconians are hermaphroditic, or the Heralds provide the male part of the DNA.
So in spite of what Cryptic tells us, this leads me to believe that Iconians and Heralds are actually the same species, and they are a matriarchal society. That is the only way their existence makes any sense.
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Uhh... but Iconians were already evolved and mastered genetic engineering when Heralds were still animals, as from various dialogues in the mission (with L'Miren, M'Tara and even the one with a wounded Herald). So it can't be that way.
You might be able to clone more, but they never reproduced naturally.
As for the hips, the "Evil is Sexy" theme is pretty common.
I'm pretty sure that if you lived for 200,000 years your body would change also. Think of what the human body does during its cycle. Plus, as was said they were master geneticist, then factor in they are now beings of pure energy. I would honestly be surprised that they would resemble their old selves as much as they did.
In the end lets just agree TRIBBLE sell stuff, even if it is on a 200,000 year old energy being....
so they were altered in a similar sort of idea as assassin's creed prsented during the ezio storyline and when desmond was alive. going through some of those puzzles to learn how humans were changed from simple ape like creatures by alien contact. these heralds were likely a sort of primate and then they were altered considerably in a similar means to the dominion and the vorta.
as for the changes, the iconians were likely required these changes in order to protect themselves and to become powerful enemies instead of barely capable of harming anything or anyone. but they may have gone too far on their adaption, they are in part energy beings now. long way from their painfully thin looking stick shapes.
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For all we know their species might reproduce using a single gender or they might reproduce asexually or they might be hermaphrodite or use a different reproduction method we can't even imagine (it's hard to imagine new things, try imagining a new color).
As for TRIBBLE and hips, even as energy beings they still look androgynous to me, I though they were male until they referred to each other as sisters
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Beings change over time. Adult Humans don't look the same as they did in Elementary or High School.
It's 200,000 years ago, and they look different now. Why does this bother you so much?
That was my understanding. They said so long as they had the orb they could rebuild what was lost. I would at least hope that there is enough genetic information to clone new Iconians.
L'Miren is a very competent scientist, so I think she will come up with someway to repopulate. I hope they can clone M'Tara, her death still seems so pointless to me.
I'm being a little silly - they may have downloaded themselves to the energy/matter bodies to prolong the remaining portion of their species, but the physiology required was a little different (we don't see the Iconians in the past doing the sort of telekinetic activity common of species making the energy being transition in Star Trek, either).
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I was also hoping somehow M'Tara would come back into play in the future timeline, I would say that was the only disappointment I felt after this last episode, that nothing in the past or done by the Krenim ship resulted in things being just different enough that M'Tara never died. But now that they have the orb, we can hope they come up with a way to perhaps even resurrect M'Tara's body? Would be an interesting plot point later to maybe ease T'Kets thirst for continued aggression.
Supposedly the rational for keeping T'ket angry is so the pve queues can stay. I would rather they just had them be in the past when the war was still on. Otherwise it kind of means that Qo'noS is stuck as a burning wreck as per Brotherhood of the Sword for a long time.
Let's buy T'ket some flowers, give her a back-rub, and maybe a "The Whole is One" picnic with a newly cloned M'Tara. Then maybe we can start repairing things.
Turns out god like energy beings can look however they damn well please.
Why do I get the feeling you wouldn't be complaining if they all had manly pecs and crotch bulges?
Also, T'ket is always referred to as feminine.
Mammals (generally, standard internet disclaimer in case of corner and edge cases) require a male and a female to reproduce.
Iconians had a different evolutionary path than mammals. Nothing much has been said of their reproduction systems. Because they look humanoid does not mean they are human.
Seems like the humanoid form is never allowed to have retractable male bits like some other species have.
Even godlike power isn't apparently enough to figure out a solution to a simple temperature range problem so air cooling. and all the vulnerability involved with it, is still necessary for any sort of male humanoid.
Furthermore, the pre-ascended Iconians still have the same body type as their ascended forms, it is just hard to tell that they do under the robes that specifically seem to be layered around their torsos. Their ascended forms bare their signature armor/energy relays, which are far more revealing than their robes. Their pose also, for lack of better phrasing, does kinda cause sharp attention to be drawn to their lower half. But in the few instances of an ascended Iconian simply standing on the ground, it's not as noticable.
It's also been pointed out that the ascended Iconians are partially energy beings, and do still have some matter components to their selves. Probably why M'Tara left a body when she expired instead of simply dissipating, and why T'Ket was able to even have her arm cut off to begin with (even though, yes, her arm did evaporate once it was separated from her body).
It COULD be possible to resurrect M'Tara if she were given a drastic enough infusion of energy, but that may not be possible if her organics can't support the strain any more. And a clone of M'Tara wouldn't really be her, either, even if they ascended the clone.
The Heralds themselves are never referred to in any way that would imply a gender. Considering how closely the Iconians care for them, including their production, the Heralds may simply lack any kind of gender whatsoever. They may not need it considering they are essentially a clone race.
The importance of the World Heart must not be understated here: it is the collected repository of their whole race's history. Only twelve Iconians escaped the bombardment; hardly enough to remember and recollect the knowledge of their whole race. They wouldn't need it for simple genetic material, guys, at least not for themselves. It was because it had everything that was Iconian, before they had to flee. Definitely enough of a peace offering to get them to back off their assault. Not for T'Ket, obviously, but for the remaining 10, definitely more than enough.
As far as Iconian reproduction is concerned, to those of you implying that the Iconians require the Heralds to reproduce:
The Iconians specifically pointed out that they engineered the Heralds into their present form when technology finally outpaced all the physical labor the ancient Heralds could provide.
This implies that the Iconians were a stable and highly advanced species well before the Heralds were even sentient, much less appearing in the form they are in now.
The Iconians do not need the Heralds to reproduce, and never have. They might not even be able to reproduce, as despite coming from the same planet, are still disparate species.
(re: the bold part) Err, no. Some reproduction patterns require two sets of DNA, but hardly all reproduction requires males and females. Not even here on Earth, let alone aliens from other planets.
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I think the first smiley herald dude that you meet on pre-bombardment Iconia referred to M'tara or one of them as 'mistress'... It may be that gender, if indeed they had any, became irrelevant after they became energy beings.
Does ALL women in the universe have to look like a human woman?