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How do you NOT die to feedback pulse?
hoshino1
Member Posts: 56 Arc User
in PvP Gameplay
My problem scenario I need help with: I am in pvp. I am damaging the opponent. They activate feedback pulse.
Now:
I can SOMETIMES notice this by watching their buffs, but they have so many activating and deactivating all the time, it is nearly impossible to watch the buffs they have going accurately all the time. There are simply too many buffs changing positions all the time. This is not a reliable method to quickly determine when FBP has been activated.
I can also sometimes notice the feedback pulse beams returning to hit my ship. Sometimes there is too much going on for me to notice that though. There are some pretty flashy particle effects in this game after all. This is also not a particularly reliable method to quickly determine when FBP has been activated.
I can sometimes notice simply due to the fact that my health is quickly depleting as I shoot them. Sometimes I react assuming that FBP is active, and it actually wasn't. Then I wasted my reaction. Also, not particularly reliable.
The reaction itself is simple enough. Just tap the "esc" key to drop target, so you stop shooting the enemy until FBP expires.
Another option is to use "Rock and Roll"... course that only helps with 4 sec of Feedback Pulse's 10 sec, but by that time I could have "escaped" out of shooting the target, but you all know how it is. I press Rock and Roll, and it doesn't work. I have to sit there and spam it for 3 seconds to get it to activate. That is FAR too long in pvp when FBP is going. I am dead by then. That is assuming I even noticed FBP was going soon enough to do anything about it anyway, which only happens half the time to begin with.
Another option would be to use the Samsar console...
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Regenerative_Integrity_Field
...but I didn't get a Samsar, so I don't have that, and can't get it because the Samsar isn't available anymore. Even if I had it, it would have the same problem of requiring me to notice FBP and activate the console in time, which is nearly impossible.
Now this would not be such a problem if it were not for the fact that I need to be able to determine when Feedback pulse has been activated, and implement a solution within less than 0.5 seconds to avoid getting blown up.
People regenerate very quickly in Star Trek Online. If I am doing enough damage to destroy the enemy, I am doing enough damage, to kill myself on their Feedback pulse before I can react. Even if I notice within 1 second, my hand can't get from the ASDW keys to "esc" before I am dead. I have less than 1 second to react. This is not reasonable!
If I am doing low enough damage that I would have time to react before FBP destroyed my ship, then I am also doing such low damage that it is insufficient to destroy their ship. What a conundrum!
Another option I have tried is to use a science character with "Subnucleonic Beam" to strip FBP off of them. Same problem as Rock and Roll. By the time I notice they activated FBP and spam the button 5 times to get it to work, I am blown up.
I have tried moving to a torpedo build, because FBP does not reflect kinetic damage, but I find my kinetic damage output even with fully upgraded very rare MK XIV torpedoes to be insufficient to destroy most pvpers.
I heard that using the Romulan tier V activated space trait: Quantum singularity manipulation, makes you immune to FBP because the Feedback Pulse can't damage you if it can't target you, but this requires getting it to activate, timing it appropriately since it takes 3 sec to actually cloak you, then it is only good for 5 of FBP's 10 actives seconds. Not really good enough since FBP can kill me in less than 3 seconds.
I suppose I could move to one of those fancy-dancy particle generator builds that involves killing the enemy with a bunch of abilities that have damage boosted by particle generators, and do kinetic damage that isn't reflected by FBP, and bypass sheilds, but do you have any idea how high you have to get your particle generators to make that work? Also, a good Sci ship with fast enough turn rate and BOFF layout is hard to get to make that build work for KDF / Rom side, which is what I am. (We aren't scientists.)
Also, those particle generator builds are heavily reliant on damage that is placed in an area and does not follow the target. For example, Gravity Well, Tykens Rift, Subspace Vortex, Eject Warp Plasma, Coolant Ignition, etc. All you have to do is use Attack pattern Omega (Which loads of people use), and walk out of their little death zone. If they subnuke you and rip off your attack pattern omega, use evasive maneuvers (which can give you immunity to slows and such for 2 seconds with reckless abandon from the pilot specialization tree), or Rock and Roll, or Emergency Power to Engines, or Aux Power to Inertial Dampeners. My point is that even with subnuke to rip off the first immunity move, a player who wishes it can have a back up to get out of whatever Particle Generator death zone the enemy creates.
But I digress, back to avoiding death from Feedback Pulse. Really it is just Feedback Pulse. If I could just manage to not die to FBP I would still get blown up sometimes, but would be... ok.
I can think of 1 thing: The Zahl ship mastery trait. It would wait till FBP would otherwise kill me, and instead make me immune for 8 seconds once per 2 minutes. That is 900 lobi though. I DO like how it activates automatically though.
Can anyone think of any other ways to deal with Feedback pulse in pvp? Maybe a weird Doff somewhere that does something like... as long as I have FBP going, I am immune to theirs, or maybe a doff that makes you immune to FBP while reverse shield polarity is going, or... some ability I am overlooking? Something? Anything?
Now:
I can SOMETIMES notice this by watching their buffs, but they have so many activating and deactivating all the time, it is nearly impossible to watch the buffs they have going accurately all the time. There are simply too many buffs changing positions all the time. This is not a reliable method to quickly determine when FBP has been activated.
I can also sometimes notice the feedback pulse beams returning to hit my ship. Sometimes there is too much going on for me to notice that though. There are some pretty flashy particle effects in this game after all. This is also not a particularly reliable method to quickly determine when FBP has been activated.
I can sometimes notice simply due to the fact that my health is quickly depleting as I shoot them. Sometimes I react assuming that FBP is active, and it actually wasn't. Then I wasted my reaction. Also, not particularly reliable.
The reaction itself is simple enough. Just tap the "esc" key to drop target, so you stop shooting the enemy until FBP expires.
Another option is to use "Rock and Roll"... course that only helps with 4 sec of Feedback Pulse's 10 sec, but by that time I could have "escaped" out of shooting the target, but you all know how it is. I press Rock and Roll, and it doesn't work. I have to sit there and spam it for 3 seconds to get it to activate. That is FAR too long in pvp when FBP is going. I am dead by then. That is assuming I even noticed FBP was going soon enough to do anything about it anyway, which only happens half the time to begin with.
Another option would be to use the Samsar console...
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Regenerative_Integrity_Field
...but I didn't get a Samsar, so I don't have that, and can't get it because the Samsar isn't available anymore. Even if I had it, it would have the same problem of requiring me to notice FBP and activate the console in time, which is nearly impossible.
Now this would not be such a problem if it were not for the fact that I need to be able to determine when Feedback pulse has been activated, and implement a solution within less than 0.5 seconds to avoid getting blown up.
People regenerate very quickly in Star Trek Online. If I am doing enough damage to destroy the enemy, I am doing enough damage, to kill myself on their Feedback pulse before I can react. Even if I notice within 1 second, my hand can't get from the ASDW keys to "esc" before I am dead. I have less than 1 second to react. This is not reasonable!
If I am doing low enough damage that I would have time to react before FBP destroyed my ship, then I am also doing such low damage that it is insufficient to destroy their ship. What a conundrum!
Another option I have tried is to use a science character with "Subnucleonic Beam" to strip FBP off of them. Same problem as Rock and Roll. By the time I notice they activated FBP and spam the button 5 times to get it to work, I am blown up.
I have tried moving to a torpedo build, because FBP does not reflect kinetic damage, but I find my kinetic damage output even with fully upgraded very rare MK XIV torpedoes to be insufficient to destroy most pvpers.
I heard that using the Romulan tier V activated space trait: Quantum singularity manipulation, makes you immune to FBP because the Feedback Pulse can't damage you if it can't target you, but this requires getting it to activate, timing it appropriately since it takes 3 sec to actually cloak you, then it is only good for 5 of FBP's 10 actives seconds. Not really good enough since FBP can kill me in less than 3 seconds.
I suppose I could move to one of those fancy-dancy particle generator builds that involves killing the enemy with a bunch of abilities that have damage boosted by particle generators, and do kinetic damage that isn't reflected by FBP, and bypass sheilds, but do you have any idea how high you have to get your particle generators to make that work? Also, a good Sci ship with fast enough turn rate and BOFF layout is hard to get to make that build work for KDF / Rom side, which is what I am. (We aren't scientists.)
Also, those particle generator builds are heavily reliant on damage that is placed in an area and does not follow the target. For example, Gravity Well, Tykens Rift, Subspace Vortex, Eject Warp Plasma, Coolant Ignition, etc. All you have to do is use Attack pattern Omega (Which loads of people use), and walk out of their little death zone. If they subnuke you and rip off your attack pattern omega, use evasive maneuvers (which can give you immunity to slows and such for 2 seconds with reckless abandon from the pilot specialization tree), or Rock and Roll, or Emergency Power to Engines, or Aux Power to Inertial Dampeners. My point is that even with subnuke to rip off the first immunity move, a player who wishes it can have a back up to get out of whatever Particle Generator death zone the enemy creates.
But I digress, back to avoiding death from Feedback Pulse. Really it is just Feedback Pulse. If I could just manage to not die to FBP I would still get blown up sometimes, but would be... ok.
I can think of 1 thing: The Zahl ship mastery trait. It would wait till FBP would otherwise kill me, and instead make me immune for 8 seconds once per 2 minutes. That is 900 lobi though. I DO like how it activates automatically though.
Can anyone think of any other ways to deal with Feedback pulse in pvp? Maybe a weird Doff somewhere that does something like... as long as I have FBP going, I am immune to theirs, or maybe a doff that makes you immune to FBP while reverse shield polarity is going, or... some ability I am overlooking? Something? Anything?
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Answers
If your in a faw ship... sorry you deserve it.
If your in a cannon ship turn off auto fire. Yes you will mash your keyboards more, but trust me you will be far more deadly and less likely to die to FBP.
If your in a Spiking "vape" style ship... pay more attention to buffs... I know the lists are stupid long now, but if you can't time out FBP in a spike ship you shouldn't really be flying one.
1 thing all ships can do is reroute power from weapons to your shields or something other than weapons for the duration of the fbp..
For cannons,just move the ship out of the fireing arc...
For beams,don't autofire.
In a Sci ship..target aux or use tbr (no iso cannon).
Could go all kenetic too...
You could use immunities but that's a cop out..
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Due to firing cycles, that doesn't actually work. If you're a low damage dealer, sure, but if your weapons are dealing anything over 4000 damage, you're pretty much dead due to how high FBP can be pushed.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Typically as long as your not on auto fire you can mitigate your response to someone using FBP.
Its really not a problem if the user is and engineer captain (especially in a cruiser) or a sci.
The only captain type this is a big problem for is Tacs and thats only when they are usin APA, TF3 plus single target abilities.
Narrow arc weapons are easier to get to stop firing vs arrays.If using arrays, shunt power from weapons to aux or engines to reduce the dmg output and get out to 10km in a hurry (For you tac captains in escorts).
A fully buffed Tac captain coming out of cloak while FBP is up is an insta gib (300% or 3.0 reflection or more just with FBP1 @ 100+ aux and 400 prtg).
Great anti vape tool (or against any single target Beam ability)...But it has its downsides...
It does not grant the player immunities..And the user can be destroyed along with the assailants reflected damage..
Even with 2 copies of FBP..there's a 15 second gap where you have to wait for activation for the second. 15 seconds is more than enough time to wipe out a ship with certain builds
Plus is shares a cool down with TSS...
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
I mean come on...aren't they out to make some profits along the way?
There is no point in upgrading the weapons to epic on a t5u wells/rmor since all you gotta upgrade is the much cheaper totally doable with in game earned assets of PG science consoles. Wah, wah, deflectors, wah,wah specialized consoles, and wah wah qq qq wah wah.....you upgrade the deflectors and other stuff on every ship anyway....wah, wah, secondary deflector, wah wah and qq.....your secondary deflector doesn't take nearly as much assets to upgrade as 7 beams and 1 torpedo launcher. Well I had to open a lockbox to get this wells.....oh you poor thing you....what about the 5 lockbox ships I had to buy for various traits, the 6 different t6 zen ships I had to buy for various traits and do my best to put together a 13 second (yes 13 second cause human reaction time to see your fbp is down and buff my vape up time) to blow you down within your 15 second window of fbp downtime?
Always the answer is stop shooting at fbp, wait for the 15 second window then vape. Wow. How fun.
Always the answer to tbr is use pol hull and get your kinetic resist up. Yea ok. And what about that particle plasma torp carrying intimidating strikes with your sub nuc (or just avoid the above with just a temporal inversion field), resonance beam, structural collapse, and isokinetic cannon you hit me with after I tried to save myself with pol hull? SMH. Oh those are just good players you say. More SMH.
STO...you wanna make some money? Make the Wells as useful as a Scimitar!
Prolly Cuz these abilities got nerfed to hell before DR,That and some have had multiple counters since Pre DR..That and Sci abilities as a whole have longer cooldown times over say..Tac abilities..There isn't a Sci ability that comes to mind that is available every 15 seconds like some Tac abilities (Even with 2 of them).
Coupled with the fact that there are 8 endgame sci ships in the c-store.3 (Dauntless,Scryer and Pathfinder) Tier 6 and only one of those can use a Commander level Specialization (Intel only).
Of the Tier 5 Ships (Dyson,Multi-mission,Intrepid,D'Kyr and Nebula) Only 1 of them has t6 variant and none have hybrid Intel/Command,Pilot/Command or Intel/Pilot seats
I think your forgetting that Sci ships do not have 8 weapons..And sci ships do damage in a completely different way than an escort or cruiser...But for the record, Torps seem to be a better investment on sci ships despite all shield pen abilities favoring Beams (like Subwarp Sheath)...
Upgrading 3 or 4 Torps,an omni array,5 sci consoles and a secondary defector (plus that other stuff..deflector engine shield)Prolly the same if not more as what you mention..Also shields start off with a 75% resistance to torps, yay..
I spent and entire day doing this exact thing to a player using a Tac captain in a scryer (and he to me)..It is a valid tactic to trick your opponent into using that ability only to escape till its expired..Its 1 answer...There are several other counters without immunites. I think your forgetting some of the advantages escorts have over sci ships (namely speed and maneuverability).Cruisers (im my experience) have been the hardest to deal with, especially with and engineer captain who know what they are doing in a 1v1 pvp.
Yea..That is the answer...It's soo easy its almost stupid...Its a direct hard counter as you become immune to TBR..Plus if you stay outside of 5km.the sci ships user cant activate it or, reduce your exposure by using hit and run tactics (Mostly an escort trick)..
Again..as I spent a day doing this...
Intimidating strikes is only a 10% chance for a 3 second "confuse" (like a short scramble sensors)..Which is also cleared by sci team..
Particle Torpedo on shields is 75% resist.The primary dot is cleared by haz emitters.The Plasma cloud is easy to fly out of..Unless your hit with a constriction anchor or something else to keep you in that cloud for the entire 6 seconds its present..
Resonance beam (2 min recharge)..Fly out 10km, or out of the ships 135 degree forward arc (easier if you can fly towards them, hardest if they are behind you).
Structural collapse (45 seconds recharge)- Phy/Kenetic Debuff cleared by eng team, possibly the damage over time too.(its basically a lower level aceton beam..) Hazard emitters (depending on aux levels ect) can potentially heal for more than this dot.
Temporal inversion field (3 min recharge) - Cleared by sci team but get outside 5km or it will reapply
Isokinetic cannon (Its up every 60 seconds.) - Countered by FBP or just Tank Kinetic (The Sol defense 2 piece could help with this when its out). Or pop that damn Kobali console after a hit.That really sucks after firing an Iso cannon as now a sci ship is limited to TBR (very easy to counter) and DRB (just get out of the forward arc).
Yea...Those are good players.
Anyone flying a sci ship has to actively overcome any kinetic resistances you have.The higher they are, the lower the damage received by the target. Pol Hull by itself nullifies TBR and sky rockets all your resistances including Kinetic. Add Brace for impact and Kentic resistances before armor are high.
Keep in mind a sci ship kills by inches(or paper cuts). Typically its combination of several things all at once..
Yea.Wish Cryptic would do that with all sci ships..But I make do with what I got (52kdps PVE or about 5k ave dmg in PVP).
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
<snipped>
Yea another one.....so do tell me......how much of that damage from your 52k wells ignores shields and goes straight to hull making it 3x effective?? You see big numbers from a scimitar running pimped out DBB's with the works in terms of everything the game has to offer and think you should get the same numbers using your 100% shield pen damage most commonly known as science abilities crammed onto wells. And i'm sure none of your stuff is threat generation boosting to make fbp hit more.
I know...let's just give NPC's BO6, alpha 2, fom 2, intel fleet 4, tac fleet 6, epic mk 28 dbb's, epic mk 28 dhc's, CRF 6, no shields, billions of hit points, oh and of course might need a little god mode magic so the player ship doesn't blow up first but then we can discuss some numbers. I think we know what the results would be. Once the NPC aggros to the wells with fbp up the numbers will skyrocket for the wells. Probable end result....wells 200k dps.....scimitar 75k dps.
Laughable....really just.....laughable.
I can read between your lines to understand you believe there to be nothing wrong with science stuff, but why is it the science ships almost always dominate in arenas? Not like I been playing 1 playstyle from jump street and have no knowledge of another. Most have jumped ship from playing energy weapons to fbp, tbr spamming....clear to see why.
For my particular load-out im pretty close to max without a team and a recluse.
My build against NPCs (in ISA) its 92% to the Hull .70-75% in PVP (My Intel Eclispe Buddy does 60%+ on his build). Ive seen and have parses with NON-Sci ships doing that number as well to the hull.Probably using 1-3 of the 35% Shield pen BO Doffs. You can also Stack shield pen from other sources (Subwarp Sheath and Intel Fleet together can be up to 30% alone) for beams. Sci-ships aren't the only ones with the market on ignoring shields..you just build differently.
As odd as this sounds..I actually use FBP1 in STFs.I do use threat nullifiers,tho mostly now I use Focusers. Since I pug alot, I end up being the only guy higher than 40k often (which means alot of aggro).But I used to run 5x Threat Amplifiers before the change to Particle manipulator specifically for FBP. I could pull all the aggro from my 60k pal with that much threat. I wish that FBP could get a boost against NPC's if nothing else...scaled better for their hp. Pilot spec Lone wolf + FBP is a pretty sweet deal when I can trigger them close together against NPCs.
Actually in most of my PVP experience, its rare to encounter a sci ship, even in Kerrat much less someone who actually knows how to use one (I get alot of random challenges in ESD). Cruisers and Escorts (Manasa, Pilot ships,and to some extent a Faeht/Intel) are very common. In my Year or so in STO Ive fought..probably a handful of players using sci ships,everyone else was using something else (BTW Intel Ships are Still nasty).Pretty much the 1 common factor with any of these ship types is they all use Beams.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Yea..Drain or Target aux are good choices..Add Pol hull for TBR and youve limited what a sci ship can use for a period of time.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Atari/Cryptic’s first response was always “there is nothing wrong”. Ability X is working as intended. The Forum Mutts would parrot this and imbellish it with false confirmation of the ability working as intended thus further complicating resolving the problem.
Time goes by. More players express concern about ability X. Atari/Cryptic still maintains there is nothing wrong. Ability X is working as intended. The Forum Mutts go ballistic. Why are the developers wasting time on a non-issue? They should be working on creating periwinkle cuff links for the new Holiday Jacket so the Forum Mutts can all stand around the Holiday Event Table telling each how good they look.
More time goes by, more players express concern about ability X. Many of these players don’t use the forums but voice their frustration in online chat. “Why isn’t Atari/Cryptic doing anything”? There is no official word from Atari/Cryptic, after all ability X is working as intended, but just to satisfy the naysayers Atari/Cryptic provides some feedback that they will have someone re-look at ability X.
More time goes by. Forum Mutts continue to castigate anyone who questions whether ability X is working or not. Forum Mutts are in rapture now that Atari/Cryptic will finally tell these naysayers that they have doubled checked and there is nothing wrong with ability X.
More time goes by. Atari/Cryptic posts Release Notes for the next patch. Turns out that after re-examining ability X in different environments Atari/Cryptic discovered that “YES” there is an issue with ability X that they didn’t noticed before. Under the right circumstances ability X can be a 100 times more powerful than it was intended to be. This patch update will fix that now.
The Forum Mutts have an epiphany. They knew there was an issue all along and they now post congratulatory messages to one another and on their Fleet websites that there was an issue and they were part of the solution.
End of story.
and the poster above me seriously needs to reviewed for a banning, because he continues to use antagonisitc and inflammatory language to describe other players
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