Ground Combat... leaves a bit to be desired in its combat engagement style. I mean I love ground, but sometimes I find how the game does engagements on the ground awkward... Mortars in the tunnels shooting through the ceiling? bullets bending?
Yeah, it's just a computer game.
the second one might be fixable, but to do so would likely require waiting for the data packet associated with you shooting to come back from the server.
Yeah, I didn't think you actually had any ideas for improving the game.
cirtainly not [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]
but then again, my goal would be having sto be an engaging nuanced balanced functional multiplayer environment. rather than trying to sabotage the game with game breakingly damaging nonsense like 'meaningful levelling', just so i can have a single player trek rpg.
1: uh... sounds nice... but unimplementable.
2: you're suggesting removing random loot entirely.... not gonna happen
3: I don't see any helpful suggestions there
4: seems kinda pointless.
5: yeah... ok...
6: yeah, not gonna happen.
7: you have no idea how hard this would be to program do you?
8: see#5
9: sounds nice, but.... as-is it's only a few button clicks.
10: sounds like a visit from the "good idea fairy"
like i said. why would i want to deal with a determined weasel who has already made clear they only want he most unresponsive and myopically simple gameplay for their grind, so the 7th idea would probably make you cry since its entire point is to have the game difficulty totally dependant on ai rather than having stupid unreactive mooks to whale on.
Prove it or shutup. At this point I think you're just making TRIBBLE up to be insulting.
Ground Combat is much more fun than space. Not so many Zen/Lobi Store advancements and the Players need to Chose the correct abilitys.
In Space Combat ist all about DPS, boring, easy and sad. No tank roles, no heal roles. Its kinda fun how fast the tacs fall in gound combat without Support and my engineer stands like a wall.
This Space Part of this game is not my fav one like i written before. For me, the ground combat is the much more funny and advanced part, specially if u use shooter mode. They all like space cause mostly its easier and faster, thats all ^^
Ground Combat is much more fun than space. Not so many Zen/Lobi Store advancements and the Players need to Chose the correct abilitys.
In Space Combat ist all about DPS, boring, easy and sad. No tank roles, no heal roles. Its kinda fun how fast the tacs fall in gound combat without Support and my engineer stands like a wall.
This Space Part of this game is not my fav one like i written before. For me, the ground combat is the much more funny and advanced part, specially if u use shooter mode. They all like space cause mostly its easier and faster, thats all ^^
there is nothing wrong with enjoying ground combat in STO in a subjective way...but this style of gameplay is at least 15 years old and has been done better in so many other games, that the only reason for you playing it in STO is the franchise and not actually gameplay reasons itself.
Most people "like" space combat, because there aren't so many (F2P) MMOs on the market that offer that type of combat...and also because the ships are actually more iconic in the franchise than the characters.
There are no trinity roles in space combat, because you can be all at once, if you chose the "correct" abilities...but you are right not so much stuff unbalancing Ground as there are for Space. However, almost all that are, are available only with Lobi.
Cryp focusses his Gameplay of course in direction to space combat, new ships and further get more Money for lobi.
My opinion space combat is kind the same of ground combat. Auto Attack, using abilities and try to get the enemys into your firing arcs.
Its the same Default gameplay we expected in the past for "15" years, mostly much easier cause like u written, the roles tank, heal and dps are missing.
Ground Combat is more challenging and i always try to list for the ground content but whatever, this game offers much more space content then ground and this is sad.
Additionally: Ground Combat is really good balanced. Simple get the matching skills to reduce the incoming damage Spikes of the enemys, there are enough of them (engi, science, tac even intelligence and command officer) bus the Problem is, the most simple takes those kits with abilities, where they get pure dps, and if they will with that they get mad and leave with a previous blame to the Group x)
well, this game offers more space content because it is much more popular among the playerbase. And understandably so. Despite your opinion, it is a rather unique style of gameplay among RPG MMOs ... while on the other hand neither the shooter mode nor the RPG mode of ground combat got anything unique or especially well done about them.
Does this mean you can't enjoy ground combat? certainly not, it simply means that would this game be rated on it's ground combat only, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because the game would have failed years ago.
As I said, If you like shooter mode MMOs, you'll find plenty out there, all with more engaging PVP and PVE. And if you like the RPG mode, there should be some games still around still kickin' that have close to identical RPG gameplay mechanics but with more and better content and even better defined classes. (though they are not Star Trek)
*edit: lol, while reading through my own post I realized that the RPG mode is called RPG mode simply because every other RPG game before STO used an almost identical gampley/combat system...in a way, by naming this gameplay mode RPG mode the devs themselves aknowledge that it is a standard "press button ability combat"
True, space combat is also just "press button ability combat", but maneuvering and fireing arcs makes that feel much less "same old, same old"
also the ship equipment and sortiment of abilities and a few other factors freshen that combat style up quite a bit, so that you can't really compare the 2 anymore. At least not in a simplified way as you did in the post before.
Cryp focusses his Gameplay of course in direction to space combat, new ships and further get more Money for lobi.
My opinion space combat is kind the same of ground combat. Auto Attack, using abilities and try to get the enemys into your firing arcs.
Its the same Default gameplay we expected in the past for "15" years, mostly much easier cause like u written, the roles tank, heal and dps are missing.
Ground Combat is more challenging and i always try to list for the ground content but whatever, this game offers much more space content then ground and this is sad.
Additionally: Ground Combat is really good balanced. Simple get the matching skills to reduce the incoming damage Spikes of the enemys, there are enough of them (engi, science, tac even intelligence and command officer) bus the Problem is, the most simple takes those kits with abilities, where they get pure dps, and if they will with that they get mad and leave with a previous blame to the Group x)
agreed.
I really think that most people who say class doesn't matter in ground combat don't know what they're talking about. Part of "strategy" is pre-mission prep. If you don't do that, you will fail hard in ground. Seemingly simple choices like what type of weapon to use make a huge difference. Why? It's largely dependent on proximity to the enemy. If you're planning to being up close then pulsewaves are good, but snipers terrible. A heal/ranged attack build can make very good use of a sniper rifle.
Personally I don't bother with shooter mode. It seems like a general waste of time to me. It's much easier to see where enemies are and plan accordingly in RPG mode. I'm not one of those people who grew up playing HALO. I spent more time playing Street Fighter and Diablo. So first person is generally unfamiliar.
this game offers much more space content then ground and this is sad.
No, it's not. It's exactly as it should be. This is Star Trek, not Ground Trek. This isn't to say ground content should be neglected--there should be a consistent standard of quality across all aspects of the game. But where quantity is concerned, space content should be king.
well, I like having a lot of space content but the ground content quality levels (not necessary its quantity) should be on par with the space content.
for what reason?
STO is mostly known for it's space combat option. I'd like to make a poll to see how many people were actually drawn to this game because of it's ground combat option and how many were drawn to STO because of the space combat option. (ignoring the franchise factor)
In other words, who would play STO if only ground combat existed.
To answer the title question: mainly because the Ground Combat doesn't look or feel as though it was real. It is nothing close to those combats we observe in the Star Trek TV series or movies, where a single hit is fatal, and tactics, dodging and taking cover is everything.
The STO combat is SO static - you just stand and keep shooting, while recharging your shield with powers. Just because you don't need do anything else, and because the controls are so clumsy and unresponsive that you really can't.
well, I like having a lot of space content but the ground content quality levels (not necessary its quantity) should be on par with the space content.
for what reason?
STO is mostly known for it's space combat option. I'd like to make a poll to see how many people were actually drawn to this game because of it's ground combat option and how many were drawn to STO because of the space combat option. (ignoring the franchise factor)
In other words, who would play STO if only ground combat existed.
True, but several of the more classic moments were in ground combat... Kirk vs the Gorn for example...
What makes this game great is that it has ALL Aspects of the amazing Star Trek adventures available. This includes Space AND Ground. Loads of the amazing things that happened in Star Trek were on away missions. What the reason why I think so many people go into space is because its far more balanced. You get 5+ enemies on you in ground and you get owned if you don't have your team with you etc, and sometimes even with your team! Yet in space we have mega shields and shield repairs and a big heavy hull protecting us. The main thing with games is we like to SURVIVE the more we defeat enemies without being defeated the more powerful we become. Every time I have done any of the new ground combat my entire team gets wasted over and over its sad, sure we eventually complete the PvE Scenario but with much difficulty. This could be due to the lack of team skills used I am sure, but it is ALSO due to the lack of EFFECTIVE GROUND CONTENT provided by the game developers! This needs to be fixed ASAP! We need to "Balance" ground out so people will be drawn too it, and for at least after they fix it they need to up the rewards you get for completing it more so it will draw people in! Maybe double the rewards or something just to get them interested.
I have a lv 60 toon of each specialization (three FED, plus a tactical KDF and ROM, plus an engineer Delta Recruit on each faction), but I only do ground PvE. This being said, I have an engineer as my main toon because of ORBITAL STRIEEEEEEEEEK!!!!!!!!! Which I use almost never this days because of the traits (I have the chasing trait from a resequencer... but all my traits are filled with space ones).
The bad parts:
People doesn't know/care about X (aiming) and C (crouch), their advantages (undine trait for extra damage to the extra damage while aiming!!!!) and disadvantages (eat melee damage while crouching!).
Animations: there is no reaction time for a lot of things, and everything goes to a non-canceleable pile of actions which is usually taken by the smash of #1 and #2 (primary and secondary fire), with some attempts at skill usage. Double tapping a movement key (WASD) should interrupt everything and make you moving...
Lag: the pile of actions creates a sensation of lag in crowded situations (like Brotherhood of the Sword).
Space Vs Land skills: Seriously, most are decisions of "defensive Vs Class" skill boosters. And most people will drop points there in order to be able to level their space skills. Minimal points mean to have one skill at six on every level, and maybe some surplus points (which usually mean profession skills and weapons skill).
Traits: Being able to reselect my traits is great. Being forced to do so manually with 9-10 o them... not so great. Specially since we cannot change them once we get into the map, meaning you should not be on queue for both space and ground missions. Seriously, they should let us have two "premade sets" of traits and specializations, like the loadout for the ships...
Too many skills: depending on the character, yeah. You need to play a lot, and STO demands a lot of space playtime, and when doing solo missions usually you only need the 1&2 spam, so once you try a STF...
The good parts:
Bridge Bunnies!!! And customizable captains!!! And...
Seriously, my engineer has every ground set (but for the gun-related one of the Nukara rep), with the Iconian and Undine at MK14, a MK14 ignoring shields sniper rifle (useless by itself, unless everybody in the party has one...) and a fabrication-focused kit (drone, gun turret, mortar turret, health regenerator, and insta-drop iconian temporary points generator), and I usually make a fortified point with the shield behind me (protecting the mortar and the two defensive generators), having little problem with almost anything in normal diff.
Come to advanced difficulty... and we start needing to change the traits.
Please note that, since it's a character who places stuff in the ground and then goes out to kill things with only 4-6 skills instead of 10, I find this toon the easier to control...
Now for my tactical and my scientist, they are some other beast entirely each one. The tactical is just an attack spam gun-toting maniac (in a petite, short-haired blondie package) while the scientist has to control two kits entirely different (healing and scientist-attack), making her the most complicated of the three, specially since the kit skills choose a place at random to stay every time I swap a kit or skill...
Only ground combat I do lately is Transdimensional Tactics Elite and Bug Hunt Elite. Apart from having to wait forever for others to pop, the fail chances are so high, it's not worth it.
To top it all off, upgrading ground gear is a pain and I don;t see the point for just a couple of queues I sometimes play. Stick in the Command spec, go it, and pew pew with my science kit modules+doffs and shotgun.
I think part of the problem with ground combat (at least, in missions as opposed to STFs) is that yes, there are a couple of features which really help sort out the confusion that is you, your boffs, and however many tangos in a furball... problem is, they aren't really explained well.
First, Zone Pause. It's a great concept... but why does it have any sort of time limit as opposed to being entirely at whim? Let's take as an example that first chamber in the Zaria facility - aside from the caged prisoners, there's a quintet of Breen - it just makes sense to farm them out to your team, making sure that one specialist gets a faceful of tachyon harmonic... Second, being able to tell boffs 'hold this position' (actually explained in 'Mine Enemy' where it's important to opening a door). Third, not only can you order boffs to use specific skills, but you can set particular skills to not be used freely (right-click on the appropriate icon; it'll turn red).
Taken together, they allow you to approach ground encounters in a manner vaguely smiliar to a few other RPGs (examples escape me at present) and the 'planning mode' from the older Rainbow Six titles.
I can't say Delta Rising brought alot of good things to space combat but it sure as hell saved ground combat. All the new abilitys, traits and UI changes made ground combat a part of sto again. Ground combat is actually pretty good now. Try it sometime, you may like it.
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On ground you actually have to think, instead of pressing space and clicking the occasional tac team.
this is fine if you are ok with doing "OK" in space, and yeah all PVE content can be done that way...but don't expect to ever hit top tier DPS leagues.
Space combat is actually difficult if you really want to kick some serious TRIBBLE.
Positioning is vital for Space combat too, it might not seem that way on first glance, but it actually is a huge factor for doing sustained, high dmg.
Personally I feel the same way about ground as you feel about space. Almost all of my captains use a split beam, because it yields the best results against all various groups or single targets.
Classes don't really matter, because most of my damage comes from the gun I use. Every pack is the same...crouch, aim, shoot. With a little buffing and debuffing inbetween.
In short, all classes feel like pressing 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, ... and a few mouse klicks inbetween.
Shooter mode is a joke and I don't even want to mention what doesn't function other than the 12+ abilities that become unusable for the most part. Also, STO's latency simply doesn't allow for a decent "shooter" experiance like people should be used to from other shooters.
Comments
the second one might be fixable, but to do so would likely require waiting for the data packet associated with you shooting to come back from the server.
My character Tsin'xing
2: you're suggesting removing random loot entirely.... not gonna happen
3: I don't see any helpful suggestions there
4: seems kinda pointless.
5: yeah... ok...
6: yeah, not gonna happen.
7: you have no idea how hard this would be to program do you?
8: see#5
9: sounds nice, but.... as-is it's only a few button clicks.
10: sounds like a visit from the "good idea fairy" Prove it or shutup. At this point I think you're just making TRIBBLE up to be insulting.
My character Tsin'xing
In Space Combat ist all about DPS, boring, easy and sad. No tank roles, no heal roles. Its kinda fun how fast the tacs fall in gound combat without Support and my engineer stands like a wall.
This Space Part of this game is not my fav one like i written before. For me, the ground combat is the much more funny and advanced part, specially if u use shooter mode. They all like space cause mostly its easier and faster, thats all ^^
there is nothing wrong with enjoying ground combat in STO in a subjective way...but this style of gameplay is at least 15 years old and has been done better in so many other games, that the only reason for you playing it in STO is the franchise and not actually gameplay reasons itself.
Most people "like" space combat, because there aren't so many (F2P) MMOs on the market that offer that type of combat...and also because the ships are actually more iconic in the franchise than the characters.
There are no trinity roles in space combat, because you can be all at once, if you chose the "correct" abilities...but you are right not so much stuff unbalancing Ground as there are for Space. However, almost all that are, are available only with Lobi.
My opinion space combat is kind the same of ground combat. Auto Attack, using abilities and try to get the enemys into your firing arcs.
Its the same Default gameplay we expected in the past for "15" years, mostly much easier cause like u written, the roles tank, heal and dps are missing.
Ground Combat is more challenging and i always try to list for the ground content but whatever, this game offers much more space content then ground and this is sad.
Additionally: Ground Combat is really good balanced. Simple get the matching skills to reduce the incoming damage Spikes of the enemys, there are enough of them (engi, science, tac even intelligence and command officer) bus the Problem is, the most simple takes those kits with abilities, where they get pure dps, and if they will with that they get mad and leave with a previous blame to the Group x)
Does this mean you can't enjoy ground combat? certainly not, it simply means that would this game be rated on it's ground combat only, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because the game would have failed years ago.
As I said, If you like shooter mode MMOs, you'll find plenty out there, all with more engaging PVP and PVE. And if you like the RPG mode, there should be some games still around still kickin' that have close to identical RPG gameplay mechanics but with more and better content and even better defined classes. (though they are not Star Trek)
*edit: lol, while reading through my own post I realized that the RPG mode is called RPG mode simply because every other RPG game before STO used an almost identical gampley/combat system...in a way, by naming this gameplay mode RPG mode the devs themselves aknowledge that it is a standard "press button ability combat"
True, space combat is also just "press button ability combat", but maneuvering and fireing arcs makes that feel much less "same old, same old"
also the ship equipment and sortiment of abilities and a few other factors freshen that combat style up quite a bit, so that you can't really compare the 2 anymore. At least not in a simplified way as you did in the post before.
I really think that most people who say class doesn't matter in ground combat don't know what they're talking about. Part of "strategy" is pre-mission prep. If you don't do that, you will fail hard in ground. Seemingly simple choices like what type of weapon to use make a huge difference. Why? It's largely dependent on proximity to the enemy. If you're planning to being up close then pulsewaves are good, but snipers terrible. A heal/ranged attack build can make very good use of a sniper rifle.
Personally I don't bother with shooter mode. It seems like a general waste of time to me. It's much easier to see where enemies are and plan accordingly in RPG mode. I'm not one of those people who grew up playing HALO. I spent more time playing Street Fighter and Diablo. So first person is generally unfamiliar.
My character Tsin'xing
No, it's not. It's exactly as it should be. This is Star Trek, not Ground Trek. This isn't to say ground content should be neglected--there should be a consistent standard of quality across all aspects of the game. But where quantity is concerned, space content should be king.
for what reason?
STO is mostly known for it's space combat option. I'd like to make a poll to see how many people were actually drawn to this game because of it's ground combat option and how many were drawn to STO because of the space combat option. (ignoring the franchise factor)
In other words, who would play STO if only ground combat existed.
The STO combat is SO static - you just stand and keep shooting, while recharging your shield with powers. Just because you don't need do anything else, and because the controls are so clumsy and unresponsive that you really can't.
My character Tsin'xing
The bad parts:
People doesn't know/care about X (aiming) and C (crouch), their advantages (undine trait for extra damage to the extra damage while aiming!!!!) and disadvantages (eat melee damage while crouching!).
Animations: there is no reaction time for a lot of things, and everything goes to a non-canceleable pile of actions which is usually taken by the smash of #1 and #2 (primary and secondary fire), with some attempts at skill usage. Double tapping a movement key (WASD) should interrupt everything and make you moving...
Lag: the pile of actions creates a sensation of lag in crowded situations (like Brotherhood of the Sword).
Space Vs Land skills: Seriously, most are decisions of "defensive Vs Class" skill boosters. And most people will drop points there in order to be able to level their space skills. Minimal points mean to have one skill at six on every level, and maybe some surplus points (which usually mean profession skills and weapons skill).
Traits: Being able to reselect my traits is great. Being forced to do so manually with 9-10 o them... not so great. Specially since we cannot change them once we get into the map, meaning you should not be on queue for both space and ground missions. Seriously, they should let us have two "premade sets" of traits and specializations, like the loadout for the ships...
Too many skills: depending on the character, yeah. You need to play a lot, and STO demands a lot of space playtime, and when doing solo missions usually you only need the 1&2 spam, so once you try a STF...
The good parts:
Bridge Bunnies!!! And customizable captains!!! And...
Seriously, my engineer has every ground set (but for the gun-related one of the Nukara rep), with the Iconian and Undine at MK14, a MK14 ignoring shields sniper rifle (useless by itself, unless everybody in the party has one...) and a fabrication-focused kit (drone, gun turret, mortar turret, health regenerator, and insta-drop iconian temporary points generator), and I usually make a fortified point with the shield behind me (protecting the mortar and the two defensive generators), having little problem with almost anything in normal diff.
Come to advanced difficulty... and we start needing to change the traits.
Please note that, since it's a character who places stuff in the ground and then goes out to kill things with only 4-6 skills instead of 10, I find this toon the easier to control...
Now for my tactical and my scientist, they are some other beast entirely each one. The tactical is just an attack spam gun-toting maniac (in a petite, short-haired blondie package) while the scientist has to control two kits entirely different (healing and scientist-attack), making her the most complicated of the three, specially since the kit skills choose a place at random to stay every time I swap a kit or skill...
To top it all off, upgrading ground gear is a pain and I don;t see the point for just a couple of queues I sometimes play. Stick in the Command spec, go it, and pew pew with my science kit modules+doffs and shotgun.
First, Zone Pause. It's a great concept... but why does it have any sort of time limit as opposed to being entirely at whim? Let's take as an example that first chamber in the Zaria facility - aside from the caged prisoners, there's a quintet of Breen - it just makes sense to farm them out to your team, making sure that one specialist gets a faceful of tachyon harmonic... Second, being able to tell boffs 'hold this position' (actually explained in 'Mine Enemy' where it's important to opening a door). Third, not only can you order boffs to use specific skills, but you can set particular skills to not be used freely (right-click on the appropriate icon; it'll turn red).
Taken together, they allow you to approach ground encounters in a manner vaguely smiliar to a few other RPGs (examples escape me at present) and the 'planning mode' from the older Rainbow Six titles.
this is fine if you are ok with doing "OK" in space, and yeah all PVE content can be done that way...but don't expect to ever hit top tier DPS leagues.
Space combat is actually difficult if you really want to kick some serious TRIBBLE.
Positioning is vital for Space combat too, it might not seem that way on first glance, but it actually is a huge factor for doing sustained, high dmg.
Personally I feel the same way about ground as you feel about space. Almost all of my captains use a split beam, because it yields the best results against all various groups or single targets.
Classes don't really matter, because most of my damage comes from the gun I use. Every pack is the same...crouch, aim, shoot. With a little buffing and debuffing inbetween.
In short, all classes feel like pressing 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, ... and a few mouse klicks inbetween.
Shooter mode is a joke and I don't even want to mention what doesn't function other than the 12+ abilities that become unusable for the most part. Also, STO's latency simply doesn't allow for a decent "shooter" experiance like people should be used to from other shooters.