Agreed DS9 and VOY were not Gene but were approved by him, after that the rights were bought by paramount I believe, after that some people from Voyager started with Star Trek Enterprise, they thought they needed a boost so between episode 1 and 2 they start telling about the Borg invading a alien base. After that people started to leave because the enterprise show wasn't great. another thing I know what NX is standing for but I strongly believe they overdone it. While the NX Enterprise has panels and computers and all the 1701 Enterprise had buttons pushing rods and stuff like that that was the first error they made. Second the romulans was found by 1701 Enterprise at the gene story line, Enterprise NX they talked about the romulans that they were already there. Could because of the Vulcan's but it doesn't add up. Just didn't like Enterprise that's all
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
They also assimilated the Raven - but that wasn't technically a Federation starship - it undoubtedly contained information pertaining to the Federation, but I doubt it's database was as extensive as that of a Starfleet ship and the Borg only assimilated it due to the Hansen's adaptive sheilding.
Going by its design language it was Federation, it just wasn't Starfleet. I also doubt it had much data in at all, I assume the Hanssons wanted all the space they could to fill with data on the Borg. It's more likely the Borg simple got the knowledge from assimilating the Hanssons.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
They also assimilated the Raven - but that wasn't technically a Federation starship - it undoubtedly contained information pertaining to the Federation, but I doubt it's database was as extensive as that of a Starfleet ship and the Borg only assimilated it due to the Hansen's adaptive sheilding.
Going by its design language it was Federation, it just wasn't Starfleet. I also doubt it had much data in at all, I assume the Hanssons wanted all the space they could to fill with data on the Borg. It's more likely the Borg simple got the knowledge from assimilating the Hanssons.
Could be....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
I have no idea what you mean, but I want that uniform...
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Annika was born 2350 and was assimilated at age six. This tends to suggest that the Borg were aware of humans by this point. They also assimilated the Raven - but that wasn't technically a Federation starship - it undoubtedly contained information pertaining to the Federation, but I doubt it's database was as extensive as that of a Starfleet ship and the Borg only assimilated it due to the Hansen's adaptive sheilding.
The 'Q-Borg incident' (Q-Who) occurred in 2365 - nine years after the above. I'm not convinced that, beyond the adaptive shield tech, the Hansen's did much to draw attention to the Federation; it seems to me that the NX-01 message was what prompted them to send a cube in Earth's direction, and theQ-led appearance/disappearance of the Enterprise-D caught their attention even further.
As I mentioned previously, the Borg were already in Federation and Romulan space gathering technology and people in 2364. Perhaps they were gathering intelligence (quite literally) on the Alpha/Beta Quadrant powers before launching their full blown "invasion". Q was very well aware of this, which is why he "kindly" gave the Enterprise a heads up on what was about to happen to them (he even said as much in the episode, Picard underestimated how immediate the threat was going to be though). In short, we don't know what effects the Enterprise-D's appearance had on the Borg invasion's time frame, but all it could have done was speed it up, the invasion had already begun.
I choose not to vote because none of the options fit my opinion.
I think the plot for 'Butterfly' is one of the better ones in the Iconian War arc. The failed temporal incursion was sufficiently disasterous and had the end result of erasing a moderating influence on Noye. I predict this guy will be trouble.
I did fail to see how erasing an asteroid was able to cause an asteroid to strike as described and consider that as sloppy writing in light of the understood workings of the Krenim weapon. That could have been explained, but the writer didn't bother.
I didn't care for my KDF officer commanding a Fed ship in one of the simulations, but given the limitations of the game and the fact that it was only a holo simulation I can accept it.
The Borg were easier than they should have been after assimilating Romulan/Reman capabilities. But I don't expect them to create new mob types for a single mission. Imagine Borg with battle cloak, subterfuge, souped-up plasma weaponry, and singularity powers. Drones with Reman psi powers.
Liked the episode , liked the poll .
Laughing @ the clowns who think polls should be tailored to their sensitivities ... , so that = good poll + amusing post .
gg!
I have no idea what you mean, but I want that uniform...
Look at the left of K'nera. That's a Starfleet logo on a KLINGON bridge.
"Was that before the Klingons joined the Federation?' A quote from Wesley from early TNG.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
It will be interesting how things turn out for the Federation in STO now. As we saw, erasing the astroid made the Borg 100x stronger than they were before - somehow removing that asteroid made things go very, very badly in the delta quadrant and they assimilated more civilizations than they did in the original timeline. They even assimilated the alpha quadrant and none of the alpha quadrant powers stood a chance.
Erasing that transwarp conduit didn't make the borg any weaker than they were after the first TRIBBLE-up, they still became a terror in the delta quadrant and are still capable of steamrolling the alpha quadrant. Removing that transwarp conduit just means they haven't expanded into the Federation's region of space yet.
This timeline is even worse. We still have the Iconians but now we also have super-borg. I wonder if we will see the full extent of the ramifications in the next episode - I suspect that while our local region of space didn't change much from the original timeline, the delta quadrant probably got completely assimilated. Will they try to fix it with more temporal incursions?
I liked it up till The Borg. Its like they are trying to beat a dead horse that turned to ash years ago.
Lore wise, they opened a can of worms and that scenario should have shown that the Borg would have taken over Romulus. It would have raised huge red flags and would have shown up right away... unless someone is fighting against them and there is a new temporal cold war coming. lol Which then the borg could be sort of explained. Someone fiddling with what they are doing and making it worse but you can have problems (I guess... I doubt there are any time travelers here) when someone erases something else or causes something else to happen it erases memories of that happening.
I just dont want to keep fighting the Borg. Its boring and linear.
Hearing the same stuff over and over again. And in a world where socio-economic or natural laws dont exist and allow them to expand exponentially in all directions and even time travel and make huge things that allow them to do whatever they want except they dont want to do anything besides take over the universe and then keep on taking over things even though the amount that they build, at least in this game, would strip half the quadrants of natural resources. And you cant just keep ruling over worlds. Even with the Borg-McGuffin Transwarp system they couldnt defend against multiple attacks at one time. And that whole continually adapting their shields is another McGuffin (Im Guessing a McGuffin created the Borg one day while he was bored and wanted to play a trick on the Universe) it dissipates heat and radiation. Sorry but them rotating their shield frequency would not make it so they couldn't take damage. It might make it stop solid objects from getting it like torpedoes. It would still be building up heat from the beam weapons and would fail. And their tractor beams would have ripped their ships apart having to control the mass of lets say a scimitar or a Galaxy and especially if they were traveling and full impulse. It would have sheered their ships apart. And you cant build or change the mass of a solar system like they did in this episode. It would have caused huge tidal issues and possibly made Romulus uninhabitable for even the Borg.
I will have to play this mission again and see if there are any Acme or McGuffin branding on the Borg in that episode. It was good until the Borg. And I liked the ending. It was just... *lets loose an tired and bored sigh* The Borg.
Well the tractor beams wouldn't damage the borg ships at all. They don't actually connect one ship to another, all the tractor beams do is create a gravity well at the location of a ship that holds it in place. The only limiting factor is the energy output of the ship powering the tractor beam - I think it would be safe to assume cubes have more power than even a scimitar.
Also it's realistic that the timship's holo scenarios couldn't predict everything. They simply can't simulate the entire universe inside their ship's computer. Though I would like to know how removing an asteroid in the alpha quadrant so drastically changed the borg in the delta quadrant.
I actually enjoy fighting the borg. I don't think they are overused - they have fewer episodes in their story arc than any other faction in STO. I wish they had 15 or 20 episodes like the other factions.
Also it's realistic that the timship's holo scenarios couldn't predict everything. They simply can't simulate the entire universe inside their ship's computer.
It wasn't bad, but when they had or brought in the Borg, it seemed like a lazy attempt to fill the gap in the story that didn't need to do so. Borg are overused, in everything that is Star Trek when they are not feared in any manner. Overall it was not bad, but it was not great.
Commander Shran - You tell Archer, that is three the pink skin owes me!
It wasn't bad, but when they had or brought in the Borg, it seemed like a lazy attempt to fill the gap in the story that didn't need to do so. Borg are overused, in everything that is Star Trek when they are not feared in any manner. Overall it was not bad, but it was not great.
The funny thing is, there's one erasure they could have made which would result in dramatically improved results for the alpha quadrant as a whole. It also has the advantage of being a callback to the original timeship episode, too.
You see, there's one faction that was initially on good diplomatic terms with the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons. A hyperintelligent race that understood gateway technology, alternate-universes, and temporal manipulation.
A race that the Romulan player captain attacked unprovoked, slaughtering their peaceful archaeologists in a mad grab at political power. That's the first incident of violence involving the Tholians in the entire STO timeline. Without it, they remain on Tau Dewa, digging into Iconian ruins - carefully reverse-engineering iconian tech without foolishly activating the entire gateway network. Since nobody threatened their sphere of influence or attacked them, the Tholians wouldn't go to war to protect their borders, which means fewer ships lost across the entire alpha quadrant - and once the Iconians came back, the Tholians would have no choice but to help fight them.
Using their immense technical expertise and knowledge from reverse-engineered iconian technology, the Tholians would easily turn the tide.
It would be a fitting end to your career as a romulan captain to sacrifice everything - your life, your legacy, your very existence - in order to save the fate of the quadrant. THAT's the type of hard decision I expect from Star Trek.
A race that the Romulan player captain attacked unprovoked, slaughtering their peaceful archaeologists in a mad grab at political power. That's the first incident of violence involving the Tholians in the entire STO timeline. Without it, they remain on Tau Dewa, digging into Iconian ruins - carefully reverse-engineering iconian tech without foolishly activating the entire gateway network.
This has been refuted time and again and is easy for you to go and check yourself... you find the iconians, go see wtf they are up to and THEY SHOOT FIRST.
You are Greedo, they are Han
I liked it, I get burned out easy on missions when they are too long. I'd rather have many short ones than few long ones. When I have to repeat across multiple characters the long ones I tend to dread and often cause me to play less. When I can tackle shorter ones it feels less like work, because I can jump around to different missions on different chars more often instead of being drowned by a long mission, if that makes sense. Not sure how to explain it.
But liked the Butterfly and that Sci Console.
i didn't answer the poll, the choices were too silly; so, I'll just give my own short review.
I thought the episode started off okay; but, it ended on an incredibly awkward note. My only real complaint about the first part was that there really was no reason for you to stand inside of the holodeck as the simulations ran on their own. Your character standing in there literally did nothing to generate the data needed; the techs could have literally pulled it right up on the computers they were using to run the simulations.
As for the second half; it was oddly reminiscent to the last episode where the characters rushed off blindly into battle with a half arsed plan and just like the last episode, the whole thing blew up in their face. I don't get why the characters are all being so absolutely stupid. All of the episodes leading up to the last two were fine, I liked them. Now suddenly everyone is hell bounded and determined to be as absolutely reckless as possible.
Just imagine if Sisko brought the Defiant to DS9 then suddenly slapped together a half arsed plan to take on the whole Dominion within 15 minutes and they rushed off through the wormhole. That is exactly how ridiculous this all looks.
A race that the Romulan player captain attacked unprovoked, slaughtering their peaceful archaeologists in a mad grab at political power. That's the first incident of violence involving the Tholians in the entire STO timeline. Without it, they remain on Tau Dewa, digging into Iconian ruins - carefully reverse-engineering iconian tech without foolishly activating the entire gateway network.
This has been refuted time and again and is easy for you to go and check yourself... you find the iconians, go see wtf they are up to and THEY SHOOT FIRST.
You are Greedo, they are Han
They're backed into a corner and tell your heavily armed group of trespassers not to approach any closer.
You then decide to attack them. The mission updates to reflect this.
If you just walked away from the computer at this point, the tholians would literally never attack you. It's only when you - having stalked them into a corner with no escape, and been warned not to approach any closer - deliberately come at them with intent to kill (reflected in your mission objectives) that anything will happen.
Even then, the extremely low aggression the tholians are programmed with ensures that your captain will certainly be the first to attack.
You brought up the Greedo/Han comparison here. It's more apt than, perhaps, you thought. When someone is coming at you with a gun and intent to kill, you're fully justified in stopping them, even if they haven't pulled the trigger yet. The recent news about the foiled train shooting is a great example. The romulan captain is clearly in the wrong here.
Comments
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Going by its design language it was Federation, it just wasn't Starfleet. I also doubt it had much data in at all, I assume the Hanssons wanted all the space they could to fill with data on the Borg. It's more likely the Borg simple got the knowledge from assimilating the Hanssons.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Could be....
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
My character Tsin'xing
I have no idea what you mean, but I want that uniform...
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
As I mentioned previously, the Borg were already in Federation and Romulan space gathering technology and people in 2364. Perhaps they were gathering intelligence (quite literally) on the Alpha/Beta Quadrant powers before launching their full blown "invasion". Q was very well aware of this, which is why he "kindly" gave the Enterprise a heads up on what was about to happen to them (he even said as much in the episode, Picard underestimated how immediate the threat was going to be though). In short, we don't know what effects the Enterprise-D's appearance had on the Borg invasion's time frame, but all it could have done was speed it up, the invasion had already begun.
DS9 was approved by Gene Roddenberry, but sadly he was no longer with us by the time Voyager entered development.
I think the plot for 'Butterfly' is one of the better ones in the Iconian War arc. The failed temporal incursion was sufficiently disasterous and had the end result of erasing a moderating influence on Noye. I predict this guy will be trouble.
I did fail to see how erasing an asteroid was able to cause an asteroid to strike as described and consider that as sloppy writing in light of the understood workings of the Krenim weapon. That could have been explained, but the writer didn't bother.
I didn't care for my KDF officer commanding a Fed ship in one of the simulations, but given the limitations of the game and the fact that it was only a holo simulation I can accept it.
The Borg were easier than they should have been after assimilating Romulan/Reman capabilities. But I don't expect them to create new mob types for a single mission. Imagine Borg with battle cloak, subterfuge, souped-up plasma weaponry, and singularity powers. Drones with Reman psi powers.
My character Tsin'xing
Laughing @ the clowns who think polls should be tailored to their sensitivities ... , so that = good poll + amusing post .
gg!
"Was that before the Klingons joined the Federation?' A quote from Wesley from early TNG.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Erasing that transwarp conduit didn't make the borg any weaker than they were after the first TRIBBLE-up, they still became a terror in the delta quadrant and are still capable of steamrolling the alpha quadrant. Removing that transwarp conduit just means they haven't expanded into the Federation's region of space yet.
This timeline is even worse. We still have the Iconians but now we also have super-borg. I wonder if we will see the full extent of the ramifications in the next episode - I suspect that while our local region of space didn't change much from the original timeline, the delta quadrant probably got completely assimilated. Will they try to fix it with more temporal incursions?
Lore wise, they opened a can of worms and that scenario should have shown that the Borg would have taken over Romulus. It would have raised huge red flags and would have shown up right away... unless someone is fighting against them and there is a new temporal cold war coming. lol Which then the borg could be sort of explained. Someone fiddling with what they are doing and making it worse but you can have problems (I guess... I doubt there are any time travelers here) when someone erases something else or causes something else to happen it erases memories of that happening.
I just dont want to keep fighting the Borg. Its boring and linear.
Hearing the same stuff over and over again. And in a world where socio-economic or natural laws dont exist and allow them to expand exponentially in all directions and even time travel and make huge things that allow them to do whatever they want except they dont want to do anything besides take over the universe and then keep on taking over things even though the amount that they build, at least in this game, would strip half the quadrants of natural resources. And you cant just keep ruling over worlds. Even with the Borg-McGuffin Transwarp system they couldnt defend against multiple attacks at one time. And that whole continually adapting their shields is another McGuffin (Im Guessing a McGuffin created the Borg one day while he was bored and wanted to play a trick on the Universe) it dissipates heat and radiation. Sorry but them rotating their shield frequency would not make it so they couldn't take damage. It might make it stop solid objects from getting it like torpedoes. It would still be building up heat from the beam weapons and would fail. And their tractor beams would have ripped their ships apart having to control the mass of lets say a scimitar or a Galaxy and especially if they were traveling and full impulse. It would have sheered their ships apart. And you cant build or change the mass of a solar system like they did in this episode. It would have caused huge tidal issues and possibly made Romulus uninhabitable for even the Borg.
I will have to play this mission again and see if there are any Acme or McGuffin branding on the Borg in that episode.
@Desdecardo since 2008.
Also it's realistic that the timship's holo scenarios couldn't predict everything. They simply can't simulate the entire universe inside their ship's computer. Though I would like to know how removing an asteroid in the alpha quadrant so drastically changed the borg in the delta quadrant.
I actually enjoy fighting the borg. I don't think they are overused - they have fewer episodes in their story arc than any other faction in STO. I wish they had 15 or 20 episodes like the other factions.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
You see, there's one faction that was initially on good diplomatic terms with the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons. A hyperintelligent race that understood gateway technology, alternate-universes, and temporal manipulation.
A race that the Romulan player captain attacked unprovoked, slaughtering their peaceful archaeologists in a mad grab at political power. That's the first incident of violence involving the Tholians in the entire STO timeline. Without it, they remain on Tau Dewa, digging into Iconian ruins - carefully reverse-engineering iconian tech without foolishly activating the entire gateway network. Since nobody threatened their sphere of influence or attacked them, the Tholians wouldn't go to war to protect their borders, which means fewer ships lost across the entire alpha quadrant - and once the Iconians came back, the Tholians would have no choice but to help fight them.
Using their immense technical expertise and knowledge from reverse-engineered iconian technology, the Tholians would easily turn the tide.
It would be a fitting end to your career as a romulan captain to sacrifice everything - your life, your legacy, your very existence - in order to save the fate of the quadrant. THAT's the type of hard decision I expect from Star Trek.
You are Greedo, they are Han
But liked the Butterfly and that Sci Console.
I thought the episode started off okay; but, it ended on an incredibly awkward note. My only real complaint about the first part was that there really was no reason for you to stand inside of the holodeck as the simulations ran on their own. Your character standing in there literally did nothing to generate the data needed; the techs could have literally pulled it right up on the computers they were using to run the simulations.
As for the second half; it was oddly reminiscent to the last episode where the characters rushed off blindly into battle with a half arsed plan and just like the last episode, the whole thing blew up in their face. I don't get why the characters are all being so absolutely stupid. All of the episodes leading up to the last two were fine, I liked them. Now suddenly everyone is hell bounded and determined to be as absolutely reckless as possible.
Just imagine if Sisko brought the Defiant to DS9 then suddenly slapped together a half arsed plan to take on the whole Dominion within 15 minutes and they rushed off through the wormhole. That is exactly how ridiculous this all looks.
You then decide to attack them. The mission updates to reflect this.
If you just walked away from the computer at this point, the tholians would literally never attack you. It's only when you - having stalked them into a corner with no escape, and been warned not to approach any closer - deliberately come at them with intent to kill (reflected in your mission objectives) that anything will happen.
Even then, the extremely low aggression the tholians are programmed with ensures that your captain will certainly be the first to attack.
You brought up the Greedo/Han comparison here. It's more apt than, perhaps, you thought. When someone is coming at you with a gun and intent to kill, you're fully justified in stopping them, even if they haven't pulled the trigger yet. The recent news about the foiled train shooting is a great example. The romulan captain is clearly in the wrong here.