Threads like this are always funny, because usually some people will call out the OP for being rude, then hypocritically insult him in an equally rude way
While I do agree that the answer should have been worded differently as well, the word "lie" gets somewhat of an overusage on these forums. Don't agree with what was done and why? "Cryptic lied". Kind of using the word wrongly.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
buy the ship ... or don't ,easy. I never use consoles that come with the ship , especialy a 3 set consoles , those eat 3 slots for just a small bonus , and 3 skills with a large CD .
Even with said console sets I play with them for a bit, discover they are indeed fun, realize my damage output has significantly dropped due to 3 console slots being taken up, then swap them out for my usual non activatable universal consoles
Sets are a nice thought and have some cool effects but the actual stand alone consoles (Minus the odd one here and there, like the Romulan Absorptive Frequency Generator) are pretty useless and often have a detrimental effect on damage output.
It's usually best to steer clear of activatable consoles, they have huge cool downs that can't be altered.
Also the Quad cannons are pretty lame, just damage affix's.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,705Community Moderator
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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I've bought ships in the past purely for the consoles, Plasmonic Leach, and Absorptive Frequency Generator. Also the Quad cannons are out stripped by any Epic DHC running 4x CritD, but I guess that actually only makes them better if you have a really high crit chance, mine being around 27% I need the high CritD in order to get massive damage bursts.
I did love using the Quad disruptor cannons for a bit due to their sound and it made for a more impressive sight when firing but when going for maximum damage output they fall short sadly, if you could alter their mods it would be great
KDF have been crying and whining since the Armitage came out for a Raptor version of a HEC, and now that they have one, they cry and whine some more because of nitpicky reasons.
KDF have been crying and whining since the Armitage came out for a Raptor version of a HEC, and now that they have one, they cry and whine some more because of nitpicky reasons.
Would you pay the same price for less? That's what Cryptic wants KDF players to do. Remember that these ships are supposed to be nearly identical.
I don't recall very many people crying over not having a HEC. KDF already had the flight deck cruisers.
Feds cry all the time and get what they want.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,705Community Moderator
Would you pay the same price for less? That's what Cryptic wants KDF players to do. Remember that these ships are supposed to be nearly identical.
I don't recall very many people crying over not having a HEC. KDF already had the flight deck cruisers.
Feds cry all the time and get what they want.
In this case its they CAN'T make it exactly like the Fed and Romulan. The other two have previous tier variants in that particular line. For example the Fed one has 2 ships of a lower tier directly related to her in the C-Store, the Armatage and Thunderchild. Which means there are consoles compatable with her to make a set. The KDF ship does not have that. Her related ship is actually a free one, the Qin. However I believe that the KDF one does have an advantage the other two don't. It just might be possible to use the MIRROR skin on her as there was a Mirror Qin. Just like you can use the Mirror Assault Cruiser skin on a Regent Model, I am confident that you can use the Mirror skin on the Flihgt Deck Raptor. The Fed and Romulan ships never had a Mirror variant made available.
The lack of a set bonus is not because of a lack of interest, but a lack of usable materials to work with. Unless they go back and make lower tier variants like a T3 ship directly related to the Qin and then a T5 C-Store Qin... no set.
It is what it is.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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KDF have been crying and whining since the Armitage came out for a Raptor version of a HEC, and now that they have one, they cry and whine some more because of nitpicky reasons.
Please stop throwing around generalisations. People are different and as such people will always have different reactions and views on certain things. Myself and a good number of the "hardcore" KDF players that I know have stated our suprise over what we see as the Klingon FD Raptor being somewhat better than its Fed and Rom counterparts considering stats, Boff layout and access to carrier pets. I couldn't care less about console set bonuses.
Would you pay the same price for less? That's what Cryptic wants KDF players to do. Remember that these ships are supposed to be nearly identical.
I don't recall very many people crying over not having a HEC. KDF already had the flight deck cruisers.
Feds cry all the time and get what they want.
In this case its they CAN'T make it exactly like the Fed and Romulan. The other two have previous tier variants in that particular line. For example the Fed one has 2 ships of a lower tier directly related to her in the C-Store, the Armatage and Thunderchild. Which means there are consoles compatable with her to make a set. The KDF ship does not have that. Her related ship is actually a free one, the Qin. However I believe that the KDF one does have an advantage the other two don't. It just might be possible to use the MIRROR skin on her as there was a Mirror Qin. Just like you can use the Mirror Assault Cruiser skin on a Regent Model, I am confident that you can use the Mirror skin on the Flihgt Deck Raptor. The Fed and Romulan ships never had a Mirror variant made available.
The lack of a set bonus is not because of a lack of interest, but a lack of usable materials to work with. Unless they go back and make lower tier variants like a T3 ship directly related to the Qin and then a T5 C-Store Qin... no set.
It is what it is.
Yeah it's the same with the Negh'var. The original was a freebie, so it had no console.
Would you pay the same price for less? That's what Cryptic wants KDF players to do. Remember that these ships are supposed to be nearly identical.
I don't recall very many people crying over not having a HEC. KDF already had the flight deck cruisers.
Feds cry all the time and get what they want.
In this case its they CAN'T make it exactly like the Fed and Romulan. The other two have previous tier variants in that particular line. For example the Fed one has 2 ships of a lower tier directly related to her in the C-Store, the Armatage and Thunderchild. Which means there are consoles compatable with her to make a set. The KDF ship does not have that. Her related ship is actually a free one, the Qin. However I believe that the KDF one does have an advantage the other two don't. It just might be possible to use the MIRROR skin on her as there was a Mirror Qin. Just like you can use the Mirror Assault Cruiser skin on a Regent Model, I am confident that you can use the Mirror skin on the Flihgt Deck Raptor. The Fed and Romulan ships never had a Mirror variant made available.
The lack of a set bonus is not because of a lack of interest, but a lack of usable materials to work with. Unless they go back and make lower tier variants like a T3 ship directly related to the Qin and then a T5 C-Store Qin... no set.
It is what it is.
That isn't true at all.
They very simply could have refrained from giving a set bonus to the Fed and Romulan ships. They chose to give them one. No one stuck a gun to their collective head and told them to do it "or else".
They have good deal of leeway to do whatever they wish as far as sets and set bonues go. Any limitation is a self imposed one, for whatever reason, call it neglegence, malice, disinterent, or "....wait, we have a Klingon faction?!?"
They made a choice to give the KDF players less for the same price.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,705Community Moderator
They very simply could have refrained from giving a set bonus to the Fed and Romulan ships. They chose to give them one. No one stuck a gun to their collective head and told them to do it "or else".
They have good deal of leeway to do whatever they wish as far as sets and set bonues go. Any limitation is a self imposed one, for whatever reason, call it neglegence, malice, disinterent, or "....wait, we have a Klingon faction?!?"
They made a choice to give the KDF players less for the same price.
You're assuming that they did it on purpose to snub the KDF. There are no facts to back up the "neglegence, malice, disinterent, or "....wait, we have a Klingon faction?!?" line whatsoever, Geko's stance on content notwithstanding.
My reasoning actually does have a basis in fact as I have said about the lower tier variants of the Fed and Romulan ships. And I believe it was also stated in the Dev Blog.
Q: Why isn’t the Qa’Tel Flight Deck Raptor’s Destabilized Tachyon Emitters console part of a set?
A: No other Raptor variants came with a console, so there were no consoles with which to make a set.
Direct from Gorngonzolla himself. While I respect your opinion and how strongly you support the KDF... I feel that ramming this "They hate KDF no matter what they do" mentality down everyone's throats is not going to prove anything when the fact is they made a pretty dang good ship for the KDF. Besides... how many people are going to run with a console set on the ship anyways? While it might be fun, you'd probably get more punch out of it by equipping different consoles instead of the universals. For a set bonus Feds have to sacrifice 3 console slots to slot two point defense consoles with maybe a 2-3 minute cooldown each as well as the console off the ship itself. The Romulans have to sacrifice 2 console slots and a forward weapons slot AND use a plasma build to get the most out of their ship with their set. The KDF... total freedom in ship builds and only have to sacrifice 1 console slot if they want to use the ship console.
You do what you can with what you got, and in this case I'd say the KDF actually came out ahead. May not have a set bonus... but on paper the Qa'Tel is a beast and I'm sure that players who have one are pretty pleased with the results.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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They very simply could have refrained from giving a set bonus to the Fed and Romulan ships. They chose to give them one. No one stuck a gun to their collective head and told them to do it "or else".
They have good deal of leeway to do whatever they wish as far as sets and set bonues go. Any limitation is a self imposed one, for whatever reason, call it neglegence, malice, disinterent, or "....wait, we have a Klingon faction?!?"
They made a choice to give the KDF players less for the same price.
You're assuming that they did it on purpose to snub the KDF. There are no facts to back up the "neglegence, malice, disinterent, or "....wait, we have a Klingon faction?!?" line whatsoever, Geko's stance on content notwithstanding.
My reasoning actually does have a basis in fact as I have said about the lower tier variants of the Fed and Romulan ships. And I believe it was also stated in the Dev Blog.
Q: Why isn’t the Qa’Tel Flight Deck Raptor’s Destabilized Tachyon Emitters console part of a set?
A: No other Raptor variants came with a console, so there were no consoles with which to make a set.
Direct from Gorngonzolla himself. While I respect your opinion and how strongly you support the KDF... I feel that ramming this "They hate KDF no matter what they do" mentality down everyone's throats is not going to prove anything when the fact is they made a pretty dang good ship for the KDF. Besides... how many people are going to run with a console set on the ship anyways? While it might be fun, you'd probably get more punch out of it by equipping different consoles instead of the universals. For a set bonus Feds have to sacrifice 3 console slots to slot two point defense consoles with maybe a 2-3 minute cooldown each as well as the console off the ship itself. The Romulans have to sacrifice 2 console slots and a forward weapons slot AND use a plasma build to get the most out of their ship with their set. The KDF... total freedom in ship builds and only have to sacrifice 1 console slot if they want to use the ship console.
You do what you can with what you got, and in this case I'd say the KDF actually came out ahead. May not have a set bonus... but on paper the Qa'Tel is a beast and I'm sure that players who have one are pretty pleased with the results.
You misunderstood. While I was admittedly being snarky about their reasoning, what I was getting at was it could have been ANY reason, not just the ones I listed. It doesn't matter what the reason was. They still made a conscious choice to do so. They have the power to do anything within their licence (which covers quite a lot).
Whether or not the consoles and set bonus is worth the space they take is completely immaterial (that is a different discussion). At the end of the day, the KDF still have less value for the money they would spend on the same basic ship than the other two factions.
It's wrong, and defending them only encourages Cryptic to continue (this isn't saying defending them is wrong, just their practice).
I am not trying to ram anything down anyone's throat... no more than anyone else. It's my opinion based on what I have seen and heard from Cryptic, and specifically from one person. As a player it gets tiresome to get handed the short end of the stick and be told "lol...Klingons" every time there is a discussion about the KDF.
I am not looking for total parity or fairness across the board. I recognize the federation faction, for whatever reason, is the larger one and will get more stuff. I just want the money I spend for the same basic item, to count the same as yours. Is that too much to ask?
Read post about new ships, sound kinda cool, got to info about sets.. but not KDF.. read about the reason for it.. screamed inside. the reason for no set was 'no raptor has consoles' yet A. the Puyjaq class does in fact have a console, the Graviton Pulse Generator, and B. the Romulain set includes a WEAPON, like what the SuQub class has, the Bio-Neural Warhead. So the reason is total bull manure, or noone at Cryptic bother to check the KDF ship roster properly. The Heavy cruiser not getting a set was bad enough, but using the same reason to not give a set bonus when their IS infact the very thing Cryptic said their wasn't makes you look bad no matter was reason you really had for TRIBBLE over part of your play/fan base once more by not trying or not caring.
How about this OP? The KDF has a built in cloak while the Romulan version has a battle cloak. The FED version has zero cloak. You got something better than the FEDS. Happy?
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
The reasons why they did it are immaterial. KDF got shafted...again.
Cryptic could have easily given the KDF version of the console the full set bonus, or given the kdf ship two more consoles identical to the fed ones that grant the bonuses and that would have fixed the problem. But that is not how Cryptic operates.
Al Rivera has repeatedly stated his disdain for the KDF and dismisses KDF players and their desires on a regular basis. Listening to him on the podcasts whenever the KDF is mentioned engenders nothing but frustration. It would be one thing if there was a genuine effort by CBS to tie Cryptic's hands on KDF development and new ship design. That isn't the case.
Cryptic is pretty much free to develop whatever ships they desire (within the faction constraints). The very few KDF ships they have made are real nice. There is a great deal of room to play with KDF side especially when you consider all the different factions within the KDF (Gorn Hegemony, Orion Syndicate, Ferasans, Nausicans, and the Letheans).
I was thinking about getting the 3-pack when they announced it, but now that I see they hobbled the ship that I would use the most, I think I will just pass on this.
Edited for clarification.
They didn't hobble the Qa'tel compared to the Alita at all, odds are in a fight a Qa'tel will crush the the Alita, thanks to the cloak.
Read post about new ships, sound kinda cool, got to info about sets.. but not KDF.. read about the reason for it.. screamed inside. the reason for no set was 'no raptor has consoles' yet A. the Puyjaq class does in fact have a console, the Graviton Pulse Generator, and B. the Romulain set includes a WEAPON, like what the SuQub class has, the Bio-Neural Warhead. So the reason is total bull manure, or noone at Cryptic bother to check the KDF ship roster properly. The Heavy cruiser not getting a set was bad enough, but using the same reason to not give a set bonus when their IS infact the very thing Cryptic said their wasn't makes you look bad no matter was reason you really had for TRIBBLE over part of your play/fan base once more by not trying or not caring.
How about this OP? The KDF has a built in cloak while the Romulan version has a battle cloak. The FED version has zero cloak. You got something better than the FEDS. Happy?
Federation ships have more hull and more powerful shields to compensate, at least they used to. There used to be a trade off that gave Federation ships more health and better shields. If they don't now then they should to keep with what they have done before.
I just checked the Cstore, and you are right (at least according to the Cstore stats). They have the same stats health and shield wise, which I find odd. I would have thought the Fed ship would have followed their previous pattern (I was under the impression that was the case). Since I usually don't check the details of Fed ships, because I only buy KDF (or a bundle if there is a discount), I overlooked that.
It still doesn't change my mind about the consoles. But I do think that there should be compensation via health to make up for no cloak.
Looks like the space elves are the winners here.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,705Community Moderator
I am not looking for total parity or fairness across the board. I recognize the federation faction, for whatever reason, is the larger one and will get more stuff. I just want the money I spend for the same basic item, to count the same as yours. Is that too much to ask?
Star Trek has always been Fed centric, so the faction that is most recognizable will be the Federation, and thus... the faction that gets the most attention. Cryptic has been doing a pretty good job on releasing more KDF ships lately as well.
And if you don't consider the set bonuses that are available to the Fed and Romulan ships (which require you to own the lower tier ships to even get a hold of anyways)... the Qa'tel actually is worth the same as the Fed and Romulan ships. In fact, the only difference at all that I can find is the lack of set bonus, which is really immaterial to the worth of a ship.
Romulan has Battle Cloak, KDF has standard cloak, Fed has no cloak. Romulans have very limited hanger pets on their own, Feds have semi crappy hanger pets unless you spring for the Yellowstones at a T5 starbase, and KDF probably has the best all around hanger pets. Slavers may have gotten a nerf in the past on how much they steal, but seeing 6-12 little ships, depending on the type of carrier you're flying, spearing a target with beam arrays and spamming mines never gets old. And I'm saying this as a primarially Fed player.
Sorry, but I honestly don't see how the Qa'tel is inferior to the Alita or the Romulan ship other than the lack of an optional set bonus that most people probably won't even bother with anyways.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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Comments
While I do agree that the answer should have been worded differently as well, the word "lie" gets somewhat of an overusage on these forums. Don't agree with what was done and why? "Cryptic lied". Kind of using the word wrongly.
Original STO beta tester.
Weird. Then why kdf is still the less played faction? xD. Of course, that is what cryptic says. Something is wrong, then.
Sets are a nice thought and have some cool effects but the actual stand alone consoles (Minus the odd one here and there, like the Romulan Absorptive Frequency Generator) are pretty useless and often have a detrimental effect on damage output.
It's usually best to steer clear of activatable consoles, they have huge cool downs that can't be altered.
Also the Quad cannons are pretty lame, just damage affix's.
Actually... I think with the recent change to the [Dmg] mods the Quad Cannons might be a bit more effective.
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Yeah, the only thing they suffer from now is just being a cannon.
Here's my take on sets. They're great for undergeared characters, alts, and new players. It's free fully upgraded gear.
Good job with digging up the pointless argument yet again. Pats on the back for everyone.
I did love using the Quad disruptor cannons for a bit due to their sound and it made for a more impressive sight when firing but when going for maximum damage output they fall short sadly, if you could alter their mods it would be great
Standard hardcore KDF mentality.
KDF have been crying and whining since the Armitage came out for a Raptor version of a HEC, and now that they have one, they cry and whine some more because of nitpicky reasons.
Would you pay the same price for less? That's what Cryptic wants KDF players to do. Remember that these ships are supposed to be nearly identical.
I don't recall very many people crying over not having a HEC. KDF already had the flight deck cruisers.
Feds cry all the time and get what they want.
In this case its they CAN'T make it exactly like the Fed and Romulan. The other two have previous tier variants in that particular line. For example the Fed one has 2 ships of a lower tier directly related to her in the C-Store, the Armatage and Thunderchild. Which means there are consoles compatable with her to make a set. The KDF ship does not have that. Her related ship is actually a free one, the Qin. However I believe that the KDF one does have an advantage the other two don't. It just might be possible to use the MIRROR skin on her as there was a Mirror Qin. Just like you can use the Mirror Assault Cruiser skin on a Regent Model, I am confident that you can use the Mirror skin on the Flihgt Deck Raptor. The Fed and Romulan ships never had a Mirror variant made available.
The lack of a set bonus is not because of a lack of interest, but a lack of usable materials to work with. Unless they go back and make lower tier variants like a T3 ship directly related to the Qin and then a T5 C-Store Qin... no set.
It is what it is.
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Please stop throwing around generalisations. People are different and as such people will always have different reactions and views on certain things. Myself and a good number of the "hardcore" KDF players that I know have stated our suprise over what we see as the Klingon FD Raptor being somewhat better than its Fed and Rom counterparts considering stats, Boff layout and access to carrier pets. I couldn't care less about console set bonuses.
My character Tsin'xing
That isn't true at all.
They very simply could have refrained from giving a set bonus to the Fed and Romulan ships. They chose to give them one. No one stuck a gun to their collective head and told them to do it "or else".
They have good deal of leeway to do whatever they wish as far as sets and set bonues go. Any limitation is a self imposed one, for whatever reason, call it neglegence, malice, disinterent, or "....wait, we have a Klingon faction?!?"
They made a choice to give the KDF players less for the same price.
You're assuming that they did it on purpose to snub the KDF. There are no facts to back up the "neglegence, malice, disinterent, or "....wait, we have a Klingon faction?!?" line whatsoever, Geko's stance on content notwithstanding.
My reasoning actually does have a basis in fact as I have said about the lower tier variants of the Fed and Romulan ships. And I believe it was also stated in the Dev Blog.
Direct from Gorngonzolla himself. While I respect your opinion and how strongly you support the KDF... I feel that ramming this "They hate KDF no matter what they do" mentality down everyone's throats is not going to prove anything when the fact is they made a pretty dang good ship for the KDF. Besides... how many people are going to run with a console set on the ship anyways? While it might be fun, you'd probably get more punch out of it by equipping different consoles instead of the universals. For a set bonus Feds have to sacrifice 3 console slots to slot two point defense consoles with maybe a 2-3 minute cooldown each as well as the console off the ship itself. The Romulans have to sacrifice 2 console slots and a forward weapons slot AND use a plasma build to get the most out of their ship with their set. The KDF... total freedom in ship builds and only have to sacrifice 1 console slot if they want to use the ship console.
You do what you can with what you got, and in this case I'd say the KDF actually came out ahead. May not have a set bonus... but on paper the Qa'Tel is a beast and I'm sure that players who have one are pretty pleased with the results.
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You misunderstood. While I was admittedly being snarky about their reasoning, what I was getting at was it could have been ANY reason, not just the ones I listed. It doesn't matter what the reason was. They still made a conscious choice to do so. They have the power to do anything within their licence (which covers quite a lot).
Whether or not the consoles and set bonus is worth the space they take is completely immaterial (that is a different discussion). At the end of the day, the KDF still have less value for the money they would spend on the same basic ship than the other two factions.
It's wrong, and defending them only encourages Cryptic to continue (this isn't saying defending them is wrong, just their practice).
I am not trying to ram anything down anyone's throat... no more than anyone else. It's my opinion based on what I have seen and heard from Cryptic, and specifically from one person. As a player it gets tiresome to get handed the short end of the stick and be told "lol...Klingons" every time there is a discussion about the KDF.
I am not looking for total parity or fairness across the board. I recognize the federation faction, for whatever reason, is the larger one and will get more stuff. I just want the money I spend for the same basic item, to count the same as yours. Is that too much to ask?
They didn't hobble the Qa'tel compared to the Alita at all, odds are in a fight a Qa'tel will crush the the Alita, thanks to the cloak.
Federation ships have more hull and more powerful shields to compensate, at least they used to. There used to be a trade off that gave Federation ships more health and better shields. If they don't now then they should to keep with what they have done before.
I just checked the Cstore, and you are right (at least according to the Cstore stats). They have the same stats health and shield wise, which I find odd. I would have thought the Fed ship would have followed their previous pattern (I was under the impression that was the case). Since I usually don't check the details of Fed ships, because I only buy KDF (or a bundle if there is a discount), I overlooked that.
It still doesn't change my mind about the consoles. But I do think that there should be compensation via health to make up for no cloak.
Looks like the space elves are the winners here.
Star Trek has always been Fed centric, so the faction that is most recognizable will be the Federation, and thus... the faction that gets the most attention. Cryptic has been doing a pretty good job on releasing more KDF ships lately as well.
And if you don't consider the set bonuses that are available to the Fed and Romulan ships (which require you to own the lower tier ships to even get a hold of anyways)... the Qa'tel actually is worth the same as the Fed and Romulan ships. In fact, the only difference at all that I can find is the lack of set bonus, which is really immaterial to the worth of a ship.
Romulan has Battle Cloak, KDF has standard cloak, Fed has no cloak. Romulans have very limited hanger pets on their own, Feds have semi crappy hanger pets unless you spring for the Yellowstones at a T5 starbase, and KDF probably has the best all around hanger pets. Slavers may have gotten a nerf in the past on how much they steal, but seeing 6-12 little ships, depending on the type of carrier you're flying, spearing a target with beam arrays and spamming mines never gets old. And I'm saying this as a primarially Fed player.
Sorry, but I honestly don't see how the Qa'tel is inferior to the Alita or the Romulan ship other than the lack of an optional set bonus that most people probably won't even bother with anyways.
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I think it is nice to bring back a bit of nostalgia.
Makes me feel like it's 2010 again...