There is a reason players don't want to PvP in STO:
It's hard. It's really, really hard.
Imagine if you would a young elementary school football player who wants to become a professional. This young football player walks onto the field and discovers he is playing against seasoned veterans with multimillion contracts, professional trainers in everything from diet to hairstyle, and years of experience against other professionals. When he is severely mauled by the pros on the field the young football player is told. "Suck it up, cry-baby."
It's patently not fair to the new kid. He had no opportunity to learn the game, or grow the muscles needed to play with the pros.
And this is what STO does to wannabe PvP'ers.
True, there are some who don't PvP, won't PvP, and want nothing to do with PvP. (Why are they even reading this post, much less commenting on it?) These players enjoy their online Barbie Dolls, and there's a lot of development content aimed directly at them. (I, for example, have no interest in Risan Sunglasses. This doesn't make Risan Sunglasses bad, it's just not for me. If you also want Risan Flip-flops, that's fine by me as well.)
But development for and balance for PvP does not in any way interfere with the PvE content or community, nor does it detract from the Online Barbie community, or even take a single thing away from the STO ERP community. In fact, balance for PvP opens up opportunities for these communities.
With balanced PvP, many gear options become viable builds for the PvE crowd, who no longer have just one 'best' build to grind for. It allows those who want their Romulan to have a plasma build to be just as viable in PvE as the Klingon disruptor build or the Federation phaser build. With balanced PvP, Science toons become as viable an option as Engineering toons, and many of the Z-store starships currently ignored because they are not the 'best' option become viable choices in PvE.
But we're still left with that vertical learning curve. There's nothing the engine does to prepare the player for PvP. A player levels up and goes into PvP thinking his build and playstyle are suitable, only to be repeatedly ganked. This will discourage all but the most dedicated PvP player. The OP's plan might go a long way to correcting that.
If a player enters PvP in a Tier 1 ship, he should be limited to what is available to captains under level 20. If he is above level 20, all of his gear should be reduced in quality to Mk II White, and he should not have access to Captain's Skills, Traits, Specializations, and other benefits the less than 20 crowd do not have. He would have as his sole benefit his experience in playing. (STO already has character level-matching, so this is not really that huge an issue for development.) The same applies to Tier 2 ships, capping the abilities to what a character under level 30 could have available, (Green equipment, etc.)
Then, (and here's the hard part for many, "I hate PvP"ers to understand,) the time spent in PvP should be rewarded in such a way as to make it competitive with the same amount of time spent in PvE activities! "But PvP is it's own reward!" Well, how many times would you play Crystalline Entity if there were no rewards? How many times would you play Infected Space if the only reward was the opportunity to play Infected Space?
PvP is dead, not because of a lack of players who want to PvP, nor because PvP'ers do not make money for STO. (PvPers spend more money per person on STO than any other group out there.) PvP is dead because of an active decision by STO Development to kill it. PvP has received no recognition since the end of Season 5, and that was only the token daily dil reward which is what a player could get doing the Traellus Sattelite Repair mission once a day.
As this topic shows, there is player interest in PvP. If the Development team spent even a little time attempting to correct the major flaws which bar the average player from PvP, the PvP community would blossom, and along with that blossoming community would come a demand for more Z-store ships and gear. The return on investment would be much higher than what a new Featured Episode can generate, and it would cost a lot less.
*edit*
I forgot to mention that those Tier II, III, and IV ships available in Z-store will have a customer base eager to buy them up for their low-tier matches. How many players want to get into their Connie and maul some Klingons?
PvP was bringing in money before the golden age of season 8.5. PvPers were among the first to buy all the new stuff and test it to get the edge on other players. Gecko doesn't want PvP money because then he'll have to admit he was wrong.
He needs to be removed as lead Dev or told off by his bosses for throwing away and taking shots at an ENTIRE COMMUNITY that was bringing in lots of revenue and have some sense knocked into him (verbally).
And kittyflofy please stop saying "that's it end of discussion" it's making you sound like a child and lowering the IQ of anyone who reads your comments. You've brought nothing to the discussion except doom and your own miserable self.
I love pvp... it's a great way to test reflexes, flying skills and other abilities. It's a true way to test your skills because it's against an enemy that thinks and learns on the fly. They adapt... AIs don't (yet).
I like the general theory behind the idea. The details are a bit fuzzy though....another grind....no thanks! But a prearranged, prestationed, none of it changeable ship to fly that would ignore slotted traits and doffs for a match would show who's really good at flying. So thumbs up on the general theory!
For anyone curious why people are suddenly interested in pvp now the answer would be....there is only so much content to play thru which will ultimately become a time synched dance cause we have a memory span.
PVP is a great way to test armour, shields, weapons, etc.
True. Also, a great way to find bugs like the now popular have kemocite slotted but don't use it and it will proc on all torp spreads. And I would imagine it to be a bug, but I like how evade target lock will break temporal inversion field same with scattering field. xD
But uhhh.....I've seen most mmo's have a testing grounds filled with overpowered npc's for this type of thing...wonder where STO's is?
1. Make reward for pvp same as for pve missions.
2. Compile a list of so called OP powers that players have difficulties with. List can be updated
periodically.
3. Normal difficulty: install filter that will prevent use of those powers: normal reward.
4. Advanced: 50% use: advanced reward.
5. Elite: unrestricted: elite reward.
Such system might also decrease need for “nerfing”. Winning team gets 100% reward, loosing – less.
System can be implemented for team play and solo play separately.
In these threads I am always stunned by unbelievable ignorance of good and established competitive PvP/MP mechanics by players themselves.
Every idea presented here over the years is needlessly complicated.
Things couldn't be simpler to make good PvP, it's not anything new:
1. Official Leaderboards 2. Skill Level and Gear/ship Level based team/solo MATCHMAKING
3. optional official tournaments with weekly, monthly rewards
4. optional servers for custom made games
5. profit, fun, win, you name it.
All this does not exclude in any way premium gear/ships/skins (read: monetization) and profit for developers of any F2P game.
Even flash games have this. It simply works.
Premium gear won't ever break the balance if you are only matched with people that have same tier of gear, no matter how much that gear is "OP" compared to average gear.
Vanilla and any variation of selective restrictions and other BS is simply unnecessary if you have leader boards and matchmaking.
Why STO never got even those 2 simple things is developers choice or incompetence.
kitty, your lack of reading skills is tragic. We're calling for a pvp without the power creep abilities.
And you still dont get it. The game NEEDS power creep. PVE needs power creep. It is what cryptic wants. So, we will never have pvp in one way or another, is it more clear, now?
Besides, players keep buying power creep everywhere.. they are the ones who FIRST need to do something about it lol. Are the players emselves who are promoting the power creep, and you asking for pvp removing power creep? lol<..
Indeed. And if something isn't better thant hey already have, they complain that it's underpowered or "TOTAL FAIL".
PvP was bringing in money before the golden age of season 8.5. PvPers were among the first to buy all the new stuff and test it to get the edge on other players. Gecko doesn't want PvP money because then he'll have to admit he was wrong.
He needs to be removed as lead Dev or told off by his bosses for throwing away and taking shots at an ENTIRE COMMUNITY that was bringing in lots of revenue and have some sense knocked into him (verbally).
And you don't realize that this is a problem already? If PvP players buy the newest stuff to get an edge, then Cryptic will have incentive to sell that edge. That's power creep. And if you got power creep, you lose balance. You lose the ability to play PvP casually, without grinding the top gear and the top ships.
And that is pretty much what happened, and it worked for PvE, because you just play against NPCs and difficulty levels are not that high that you need the newest stuff immediately. But in PvP, you immediately face enemies that are better equippped then you, and the fight is no longer rigged in your favor, unlike PvE.
And so you kill PvP because it's not fun until you've grinded it all, and if you can enjoy grinding it all, you probably don't even need PvP to enjoy the game in the first place, and if you only enjoy PvP, chances are good that you'd hate the grinding so much ypu look for another game.
But I also think you overestimate the purchasing power of PvPers here. PvEers are also looking for an edge, and all kinds of players are looking for a cool-looking ship they enjoy flying. And then ther are the collectors, of course, that buy everything.
I think the only solution for a problem like this would be very advanced match-making system - or something that neuters all the gear and grind advantages.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
It's hard. It's really, really hard.
Imagine if you would a young elementary school football player who wants to become a professional. This young football player walks onto the field and discovers he is playing against seasoned veterans with multimillion contracts, professional trainers in everything from diet to hairstyle, and years of experience against other professionals. When he is severely mauled by the pros on the field the young football player is told. "Suck it up, cry-baby."
It's patently not fair to the new kid. He had no opportunity to learn the game, or grow the muscles needed to play with the pros.
And this is what STO does to wannabe PvP'ers.
True, there are some who don't PvP, won't PvP, and want nothing to do with PvP. (Why are they even reading this post, much less commenting on it?) These players enjoy their online Barbie Dolls, and there's a lot of development content aimed directly at them. (I, for example, have no interest in Risan Sunglasses. This doesn't make Risan Sunglasses bad, it's just not for me. If you also want Risan Flip-flops, that's fine by me as well.)
But development for and balance for PvP does not in any way interfere with the PvE content or community, nor does it detract from the Online Barbie community, or even take a single thing away from the STO ERP community. In fact, balance for PvP opens up opportunities for these communities.
With balanced PvP, many gear options become viable builds for the PvE crowd, who no longer have just one 'best' build to grind for. It allows those who want their Romulan to have a plasma build to be just as viable in PvE as the Klingon disruptor build or the Federation phaser build. With balanced PvP, Science toons become as viable an option as Engineering toons, and many of the Z-store starships currently ignored because they are not the 'best' option become viable choices in PvE.
But we're still left with that vertical learning curve. There's nothing the engine does to prepare the player for PvP. A player levels up and goes into PvP thinking his build and playstyle are suitable, only to be repeatedly ganked. This will discourage all but the most dedicated PvP player. The OP's plan might go a long way to correcting that.
If a player enters PvP in a Tier 1 ship, he should be limited to what is available to captains under level 20. If he is above level 20, all of his gear should be reduced in quality to Mk II White, and he should not have access to Captain's Skills, Traits, Specializations, and other benefits the less than 20 crowd do not have. He would have as his sole benefit his experience in playing. (STO already has character level-matching, so this is not really that huge an issue for development.) The same applies to Tier 2 ships, capping the abilities to what a character under level 30 could have available, (Green equipment, etc.)
Then, (and here's the hard part for many, "I hate PvP"ers to understand,) the time spent in PvP should be rewarded in such a way as to make it competitive with the same amount of time spent in PvE activities! "But PvP is it's own reward!" Well, how many times would you play Crystalline Entity if there were no rewards? How many times would you play Infected Space if the only reward was the opportunity to play Infected Space?
PvP is dead, not because of a lack of players who want to PvP, nor because PvP'ers do not make money for STO. (PvPers spend more money per person on STO than any other group out there.) PvP is dead because of an active decision by STO Development to kill it. PvP has received no recognition since the end of Season 5, and that was only the token daily dil reward which is what a player could get doing the Traellus Sattelite Repair mission once a day.
As this topic shows, there is player interest in PvP. If the Development team spent even a little time attempting to correct the major flaws which bar the average player from PvP, the PvP community would blossom, and along with that blossoming community would come a demand for more Z-store ships and gear. The return on investment would be much higher than what a new Featured Episode can generate, and it would cost a lot less.
*edit*
I forgot to mention that those Tier II, III, and IV ships available in Z-store will have a customer base eager to buy them up for their low-tier matches. How many players want to get into their Connie and maul some Klingons?
Hopefully.
Link: Castra - a german Fleet.
It's dead.
He needs to be removed as lead Dev or told off by his bosses for throwing away and taking shots at an ENTIRE COMMUNITY that was bringing in lots of revenue and have some sense knocked into him (verbally).
For anyone curious why people are suddenly interested in pvp now the answer would be....there is only so much content to play thru which will ultimately become a time synched dance cause we have a memory span.
True. Also, a great way to find bugs like the now popular have kemocite slotted but don't use it and it will proc on all torp spreads. And I would imagine it to be a bug, but I like how evade target lock will break temporal inversion field same with scattering field. xD
But uhhh.....I've seen most mmo's have a testing grounds filled with overpowered npc's for this type of thing...wonder where STO's is?
2. Compile a list of so called OP powers that players have difficulties with. List can be updated
periodically.
3. Normal difficulty: install filter that will prevent use of those powers: normal reward.
4. Advanced: 50% use: advanced reward.
5. Elite: unrestricted: elite reward.
Such system might also decrease need for “nerfing”. Winning team gets 100% reward, loosing – less.
System can be implemented for team play and solo play separately.
close, butcher...
I wonder if any dev did read the suggestions.
Link: Castra - a german Fleet.
Every idea presented here over the years is needlessly complicated.
Things couldn't be simpler to make good PvP, it's not anything new:
1. Official Leaderboards
2. Skill Level and Gear/ship Level based team/solo MATCHMAKING
3. optional official tournaments with weekly, monthly rewards
4. optional servers for custom made games
5. profit, fun, win, you name it.
All this does not exclude in any way premium gear/ships/skins (read: monetization) and profit for developers of any F2P game.
Even flash games have this. It simply works.
Premium gear won't ever break the balance if you are only matched with people that have same tier of gear, no matter how much that gear is "OP" compared to average gear.
Vanilla and any variation of selective restrictions and other BS is simply unnecessary if you have leader boards and matchmaking.
Why STO never got even those 2 simple things is developers choice or incompetence.
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SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
And you don't realize that this is a problem already? If PvP players buy the newest stuff to get an edge, then Cryptic will have incentive to sell that edge. That's power creep. And if you got power creep, you lose balance. You lose the ability to play PvP casually, without grinding the top gear and the top ships.
And that is pretty much what happened, and it worked for PvE, because you just play against NPCs and difficulty levels are not that high that you need the newest stuff immediately. But in PvP, you immediately face enemies that are better equippped then you, and the fight is no longer rigged in your favor, unlike PvE.
And so you kill PvP because it's not fun until you've grinded it all, and if you can enjoy grinding it all, you probably don't even need PvP to enjoy the game in the first place, and if you only enjoy PvP, chances are good that you'd hate the grinding so much ypu look for another game.
But I also think you overestimate the purchasing power of PvPers here. PvEers are also looking for an edge, and all kinds of players are looking for a cool-looking ship they enjoy flying. And then ther are the collectors, of course, that buy everything.
I think the only solution for a problem like this would be very advanced match-making system - or something that neuters all the gear and grind advantages.