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Krenim weapon is bad, but what kind of bad?
qziqza
Member Posts: 1,044 Arc User
So we have some discussions covering the moral and ethical implications in the use of the Krenim weapon. What I would like to know is.. What do you think could go wrong if we use this weapon? What potential pitfalls and problems are we maybe not considering? What things are Cryptic not considering?
For instance, if we erase the Iconians, and their direct influence on things, would we have to deal with the Solanae? What TRIBBLE would Hakeev have got up too instead? Would the Reformist movement still be below ground, would it have the opportunity to flourish? Would we still have a Romulan Faction? or would the Romulan Republic with Sela at the head be committed to a war against the federation? Will Delta recruits cease to exist? If the Romulan faction still exists, will we at last be able to remove Tovan from our Duty Roster? actually that last 1 is more of a hope than a question or concern, but valid here i think.
For instance, if we erase the Iconians, and their direct influence on things, would we have to deal with the Solanae? What TRIBBLE would Hakeev have got up too instead? Would the Reformist movement still be below ground, would it have the opportunity to flourish? Would we still have a Romulan Faction? or would the Romulan Republic with Sela at the head be committed to a war against the federation? Will Delta recruits cease to exist? If the Romulan faction still exists, will we at last be able to remove Tovan from our Duty Roster? actually that last 1 is more of a hope than a question or concern, but valid here i think.
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Remember the Vulcans who left Vulcan eventually settled there for a while, but for all we know they could have been destroyed or absorbed by the Dewan Empire which still existed when they arrived. Or maybe they avoided that region altogether and so they never settled on Romulus and became the Romulans. A LOT is going to be different if we erase the Iconians from existence.
http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Annorax
Just read it. You know what it reminds me of? That mid 2000's movie, "The Butterfly Effect." In both, the main character (D*mbass in the movie and Annorax in VOY) has the best of intentions to go back in time and right some sort of wrong. Only problem is that every time he "rights" that wrong, something else goes terribly bad as an unforeseen consequence. The difference however is that movie was supposed to be serious but it turned out to be a comedy due to the various results
The Alliance has the best of intentions to use this weapon that has a long history of working very badly, even in the hands of the originator himself. And here the Alliance is whipping this thing up faster than a McDonald's drive-thru order and put it in use to win the Iconian War. In absolute, pure desperation with minimal testing (projects for a new weapon when you're at the end of losing a war tend to be rushed, having big issues, go awry). It's going to be built. It's going to be in service. It's not going to be tested well. It wouldn't surprise me if it's first real use is in a combat operation and not a shakedown to ensure everything is going right.
You can see this all coming a mile away. You can see the train wreck about to happen. The Temporal Division guys see the same thing but are powerless to stop it. Too many things are tied together.
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Doubtable. They checked the expansion of the empire, but not the level of technology or what level of convenient living the krenim had, what social structure etc. etc.
If you go 10min back, the repercussion for your "present" self might be neglectible. But 200.000 Years? There are so many threads of the tapestry of history that might get turned loose, its not funny. The first alliance might never happen. The former alliance technology could habe been inferior, and some other fiend could conquer it. TKon might still be around. Or would have never formed.
There are so many unknowns about the history in that span, that you cant make a fair estimation how everything turns out.
Lets just say you wipe Hitler from the history. Wouldnt this be great? Or would it result in nuclear holocaust world wide, making the body count of WW II look minor in comparasion, not to mention the would be degeneration of technology or at least reducing the speed of inovations. Why? WW II, which was still fought with conventional weapons (until the USA wanted to prevent a costly siege of Japan and nuked two cities), struck fear of war into the hearts of the generations. Together with the possible nuclear counterstrike, none of the nuclear powers actually went to war (though there were skirmishes of proxies).
You just cant say "We wipe X from history, and history will unfold like it did", it wont. History will be rewritten. Its like watching TOS and bäm, here we have JJ Trek. And that is a big difference.
now when we consider that annorax actually designed that thing to work around his understanding of the processes and implications involved.. we're throwing this together like a cheap kinder egg toy and the builders are all giggly with what they can do to improve everything. our alliance is so blinded by the shiny demons and flashing lights (and poor scripting), that they will pretty much ignore everything in their periphery and give the go ahead, because, well because its close enough. that megalomaniac of a krenim scientist will grin like the orignal joker as he gets to push that big.. [ugrade to vista] button.
goods points on the Dewan Empire @thomaselkins i hadn't considered them.
Fast forward to now would any of the current races even exist? Never mind factions, politics, history or technology.
As far as the game is concerned and it's limited scope, simply nothing would have happened in the first place. The Iconians have been directly and indirectly responsible for every war and conflict in the game. About the only threats that would have remained after the fact would be Tholians, Borg and everyone else who got a supporting role.
That's just one of about 10,000 gaping plot holes that will occur if this story line goes forth to it's full conclusion.
The Iconians have had a massive galactic influence, removing them from the history of existence would change almost every facet of the galaxy as we know it.
The effect of the effect is of course not limited in lightyears. It rewrites history. Entirely.
I think everyone hopes that it doesnt happen.
But we have seen so much bad writing recently, one cant really rely on the hope being fullfilled.
It alters time, space (and distance) do not matter. If you remove the iconians, they never exsisted in the first place to go to the Andramida galaxy.
Also, the whole point of the episode with the Time ship is they were fixing the fact that they made the ship in the first place. They built it, used it on an enemy and realized that they actually needed them. The rest of the time was trying to undo that first use.
As far as removing the iconians, it would change things beyond what anyone could imagine, but at the same time, if your options are 1: The galaxy is wiped out and/or enslaved to the iconians; or 2) compeltely change the galaxy, but the iconians don't exsist then option 2 starts looking better. If they can't win against the iconians, then changing the galaxy, even if it is for the worst for many of the factions involved, might be preferable to not existing at all.
That being said the Timeship would need to be defended to the rest of time or well... reboot!
No, it could be dismantled or something similar. It just has to be controlled. If it nukes itself out of existence, thats a totally different story.
So using it and dismantling it would not result in an reboot.
My character Tsin'xing
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
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'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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If it comes from expertise, you call it realist
That said, I doubt we will get to use the weapon in that way. It just seems so silly for the story to go that way.
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My character Tsin'xing
It's also an incredibly lame Deus ex Machina device, relieving the Devs of any and all responsibility to write good content: things don't go our way?! Zap, undo!
Personally, I love time travel stuff, and the Krenim 'Year of Hell' story... but *not* in our hands!
None of us would probably be around. The Iconian influence in our galaxy goes back 200,000 years. Most of what we know, the Federation, Romulan Republic, Romulan Star Empire, Klingon Empire, all goes POOF if we use it to erase the Iconians.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
For example, the Krenim weapon could be used to send the Iconians back in time (pick a historically calm period in recent galactic history), perhaps before their intrusion in the Federation/Klingon Empire peace accord. In this case, several Klingon warriors would still be alive, and the common enemies are once again the Undine & the Borg.
Or, the Iconians could be sent back even further, before they were using the Undine as a proxy to attack the Federation & KDF; in this case, there may not even have been a compelling reason for a peace accord between the old foes, and we go back to the old status quo of fighting for control of our own galaxy.
If "the Other" invtervene to save the Iconians once again, it could be just in time to prevent their extinction, after devastating losses, in which case, it is possible that we might find ourselves meeting "the Other" face-to-face. Judging by the fact that they have not found a compelling reason to encounter the "lesser" sentients in the galaxy, they may not be hostile at the meeting, and possibly even conciliatory ("...sorry, we didn't think our brethren would go back to their old ways...").
The larger view is what effect these plot twists might have on future gameplay; if the Iconians are once again relegated to history, would the Iconian Resistance rep & all its hardware also vanish? (This would be a welcome method IMO to partially reverse some power creep.) How far back do the Iconians disappear, and what other races flourish unexpectedly because of the new timeline? The Iconian war currently overshadows all other game content, so future expansion of the game will directly impacted by how the war is resolved. And please don't resort to a "War of the Worlds" ending, where they succumb to some common microbial agent...
Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci
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Part of me thinks it will fail, but we'll be saved by something else at the last minute (where is Sela and the Dominion? Or what was that item the preserver was trying to get before he got vaped?). But the other part of me says because cryptic went through the trouble of building it *cough*futuredoffpackgrandprize*cough it will end up being used.
From a in charactor stand point, backs against the wall or not, the potential of disaster is far to great to use such a weapon.
T'Ket could easily represent the Klingon Empire and openly aggressive species.
L'Miran is (was) very diplomatic and would suitably represent Federation style attitudes.
M'Tara was (is) very duty driven, too the point, pretty dispassionate, and willing to do whatever is needed for the continuation of.. whatever 'of' is? depending on the particular aspects you choose, she could actually represent Vulcan or old Romulan type attitudes.
or is it just me? after all, cultures are based on, if not a reflection of, their belief system and/or their rulers.
Extremely unlikely. Players would scream bloody murder if any of their toys get taken away for good. They already do that if their toys get somehow nerfed or limited.
The more likely scenario is that the timeline will see no major alteration, at least not from our perspective. We might "learn" a few new facts - for example, that the original faction to "destroy" the Iconians was indeed us, but perhaps we didn't actually destroy them, just time-shifted them or put them in a stasis field or some other isolated spot.
A major timeline alteration would be too weird, I think. Of course, they can always say "we're the only ones that know about these changes, because we were protected from them",thus explaining why we still have all the cool stuff and all our memories. But... I doubt that. At least not on a big scale.
There is hope guys. There is hope.
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