*snip* On topic, I DO think we needed to make a show of force against the Iconians, and that they wouldn't even think to negotiate without being shown conclusively that we could take them out at will, but I think we would have done better to weaken M'Tara severely but leave her a reasonable chance to survive.
Well, to be fair, it was her idea to keep returning to the fight, we had nothing to do with that. If anything, our actions discouraged her from returning to the fight.
We didn't kill her, her god complex did.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
...And basically these would grant additional dialogue options where you can override people. Sometimes you might get a mission shortcut for replay. Sometimes, the same stuff would happen but would play out differently, say, by having Quinn or J'mpok call you up and order you to go with the subordinate's plan.
This would rock.
On a note unrelated to stoleviathan's rocking, did this really look like such a bad move, either militarily or dramatically? One of the cutscenes during the FE says that the Heralds had more reserves than expected, and 'throwing everything into the defense of our superweapon' is a well-worn trope for converting a military underdog story (a tale that's usually boring in the telling to folks not interested in military science) into one that's dramatically palatable. The only thing that struck me about this was that the suicidal holding action took place a little early in the story arc; the FE left me with the impression that the attack may not've bought the research team enough time.
Well, to be fair, it was her idea to keep returning to the fight, we had nothing to do with that. If anything, our actions discouraged her from returning to the fight.
We didn't kill her, her god complex did.
This is what bugged me about this FE...Why did she keep coming back? After the 3rd or 4th converter (or whatever they were) that you shut down, it was obvious that she was beaten. The last time she came through the rift, I was like "Really M'Tara, Really? 200,000 years old and sick of living? Well....OK...." *TRIBBLE Omega repeating rifle*
I suppose, playing these FE's as much as I have, I've gotten pretty good at wasting Herald's. She was not a problem for me. Perhaps that is why I found it a bit anti climactic. I guess she really wanted to be a Martyr.... and who am I to deny her Martyrdom?
Up to that point, though, I thought that this FE was very good. I love the Herald ship interior, very alien and different. I also found the space portion quite fun as well. D@mn that sphere is big....hehe
To the original topic, though, Kagran definitely needs to be shown out an airlock....
Qapla'!
Edit: I guess that the action you do to a firearm to load the chamber and get it ready to shoot is a baaaad word.....lol
1) To justify using the questionable time travel plan which is also sure to fail but in an interesting way that inspires a clue.
2) This reduced the Iconian leadership from three (two who hated us and one who was more cautious) down to two. Now, those two both hate us but my guess is we'll kill one of these guys and make friends with the other one after we kill her angry one armed friend. In fact, she'll probably help us kill her friend once we persuade her but the way we persuade her is going to be something that only occurs to us after we ruin the timeline and then fix it.
I think it is odd that the leadership of the assault force is a simple Captain. What was wrong with making him a General or Admiral?
It makes more sense to have a Captain if it was a special task force, but it's pretty much all of the alliance fleet, isn't it? What are the other Admirals doing?
BUT: It's a war. Battles need to be fought, and battles will be lost. Even the greatest leaders had their failures. And if you fight an enemy that is technologically more advanced then you, has a more mobile fleet, and has strong numbers, you will lose a lot.
It's really a miracle that we're still around.
I think the biggest failing in Cryptic's writing of the Iconian War are in two things:
1) They fail to convey the direness of the situation. It's not enough to talk about it - we need to see it, and - which might go beyond mere story-telling, but is also a game design thing - and we need to be reminded of it regularly. The lack of Herald Red Alerts or signal contacts is just jarring, especially if you also allow people to have fun on Risa.
2) They fail to explain why the Iconians are so ineffective. We never really learn the shortcomings of the gate technology. Either the Iconians and their Heralds have no idea how to use their gate technology, or it's much more limited than it is generally portrayed. If you can pop up anywhere you want, just by having general knowledge of the location (and the Preserver Archive seems to be a good example that this is something the Iconians can do), then your you can pretty much guarantee that your fleet can overwhelm any opposition. If the Alliance Fleet is in the Delta Quadrant - pop up over Earth and blow San Francisco and Earth Space Dock to bits. Then retreat tow hereever you came from and pick the next target. Even if you don't want total annihilation of the enemy (and at least until now, that was indeed not a goal), you can pretty much devastate any resistance.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
so will we take L'Miran back to save her people? she is now maybe 'different, less brighter' enough to be unrecognisable for who she once was? we would either take her back bereft of the memory of what has happened, giving her the information she needs to save her people and change the course of history, or somehow seven will have created shielding which may protect L'Miran and preserve at least some of what she knows.
either way L'Miran should still retain the memory of who she is, she was around along time before before the downfall, so a data log entry/recording should be enough to satisfy and to confirm the details of any plan to her satisfaction. just needs to be a point before the attack on her home world 200000yrs ago, hopefully a little earlier, so she can be the 'one' to save them from destruction? she may actually already know all this ofc, her and M'Tara have always been convinced about the one returning, so this could be the entire reasoning behind all the current events, the longest game of chess in history. im interested in how exactly the saving will happen, so we don't just end up in an infinite looping paradox, or if we are we can break the cycle.
Well, to be fair, it was her idea to keep returning to the fight, we had nothing to do with that. If anything, our actions discouraged her from returning to the fight.
We didn't kill her, her god complex did.
This is what bugged me about this FE...Why did she keep coming back? After the 3rd or 4th converter (or whatever they were) that you shut down, it was obvious that she was beaten. The last time she came through the rift, I was like "Really M'Tara, Really? 200,000 years old and sick of living? Well....OK...." *TRIBBLE Omega repeating rifle*
I suppose, playing these FE's as much as I have, I've gotten pretty good at wasting Herald's. She was not a problem for me. Perhaps that is why I found it a bit anti climactic. I guess she really wanted to be a Martyr.... and who am I to deny her Martyrdom?
M'Tara generally didn't seem to be a problem for anyone. It's the Harbinger that's a far mightier foe to fight.
Not only did M'Tara stupidly keep coming even after she knew she was getting in bad shape, she also did little more than speeches. I guess Iconians can vaporise people only when the player character isn't one of them...
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Comments
Well, to be fair, it was her idea to keep returning to the fight, we had nothing to do with that. If anything, our actions discouraged her from returning to the fight.
We didn't kill her, her god complex did.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
This would rock.
On a note unrelated to stoleviathan's rocking, did this really look like such a bad move, either militarily or dramatically? One of the cutscenes during the FE says that the Heralds had more reserves than expected, and 'throwing everything into the defense of our superweapon' is a well-worn trope for converting a military underdog story (a tale that's usually boring in the telling to folks not interested in military science) into one that's dramatically palatable. The only thing that struck me about this was that the suicidal holding action took place a little early in the story arc; the FE left me with the impression that the attack may not've bought the research team enough time.
This is what bugged me about this FE...Why did she keep coming back? After the 3rd or 4th converter (or whatever they were) that you shut down, it was obvious that she was beaten. The last time she came through the rift, I was like "Really M'Tara, Really? 200,000 years old and sick of living? Well....OK...." *TRIBBLE Omega repeating rifle*
I suppose, playing these FE's as much as I have, I've gotten pretty good at wasting Herald's. She was not a problem for me. Perhaps that is why I found it a bit anti climactic. I guess she really wanted to be a Martyr.... and who am I to deny her Martyrdom?
Up to that point, though, I thought that this FE was very good. I love the Herald ship interior, very alien and different. I also found the space portion quite fun as well. D@mn that sphere is big....hehe
To the original topic, though, Kagran definitely needs to be shown out an airlock....
Qapla'!
Edit: I guess that the action you do to a firearm to load the chamber and get it ready to shoot is a baaaad word.....lol
Co-Founder of TOS Veterans and TOS Qan Mang
Lol
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
1) To justify using the questionable time travel plan which is also sure to fail but in an interesting way that inspires a clue.
2) This reduced the Iconian leadership from three (two who hated us and one who was more cautious) down to two. Now, those two both hate us but my guess is we'll kill one of these guys and make friends with the other one after we kill her angry one armed friend. In fact, she'll probably help us kill her friend once we persuade her but the way we persuade her is going to be something that only occurs to us after we ruin the timeline and then fix it.
It makes more sense to have a Captain if it was a special task force, but it's pretty much all of the alliance fleet, isn't it? What are the other Admirals doing?
BUT: It's a war. Battles need to be fought, and battles will be lost. Even the greatest leaders had their failures. And if you fight an enemy that is technologically more advanced then you, has a more mobile fleet, and has strong numbers, you will lose a lot.
It's really a miracle that we're still around.
I think the biggest failing in Cryptic's writing of the Iconian War are in two things:
1) They fail to convey the direness of the situation. It's not enough to talk about it - we need to see it, and - which might go beyond mere story-telling, but is also a game design thing - and we need to be reminded of it regularly. The lack of Herald Red Alerts or signal contacts is just jarring, especially if you also allow people to have fun on Risa.
2) They fail to explain why the Iconians are so ineffective. We never really learn the shortcomings of the gate technology. Either the Iconians and their Heralds have no idea how to use their gate technology, or it's much more limited than it is generally portrayed. If you can pop up anywhere you want, just by having general knowledge of the location (and the Preserver Archive seems to be a good example that this is something the Iconians can do), then your you can pretty much guarantee that your fleet can overwhelm any opposition. If the Alliance Fleet is in the Delta Quadrant - pop up over Earth and blow San Francisco and Earth Space Dock to bits. Then retreat tow hereever you came from and pick the next target. Even if you don't want total annihilation of the enemy (and at least until now, that was indeed not a goal), you can pretty much devastate any resistance.
either way L'Miran should still retain the memory of who she is, she was around along time before before the downfall, so a data log entry/recording should be enough to satisfy and to confirm the details of any plan to her satisfaction. just needs to be a point before the attack on her home world 200000yrs ago, hopefully a little earlier, so she can be the 'one' to save them from destruction? she may actually already know all this ofc, her and M'Tara have always been convinced about the one returning, so this could be the entire reasoning behind all the current events, the longest game of chess in history. im interested in how exactly the saving will happen, so we don't just end up in an infinite looping paradox, or if we are we can break the cycle.
M'Tara generally didn't seem to be a problem for anyone. It's the Harbinger that's a far mightier foe to fight.
Not only did M'Tara stupidly keep coming even after she knew she was getting in bad shape, she also did little more than speeches. I guess Iconians can vaporise people only when the player character isn't one of them...
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!