[Spoilers] Can we oust Captain Brannigan... er, Kagran?

gofasternow

I mean, seriously, we've had... what, five missions, three of them his ideas that involve trying to smash Iconians in the face and all we do is just make the situation worse. I don't care if he's a Klingon or he's a warrior or all of that honor bull-hockey, he's messed up and he needs to be dragged off somewhere where he can't hurt anyone again...

...if there's any NPCs left after this.

gradii

Do the new mission.

Do NOT take all the TRIBBLE theyre trying to feed you at face value. Take a step back and think about if it makes sense considering all we now know and all that's happened..

rustiswordz

My name is Captain Kagran. I've just sent the entire allied fleet and thousands of men and women to their deaths in a fit of Klink bloodlust that would make Martok spin in his grave. If the Krenim warship (which i hope we get to use as well as build) is used then i hope Kagran is nothing more than a lowly crewman and never gets the chance to go up the ranks.

jermbot

Damn you, aren't you aware that Iconian's have a preset kill limit? If we just send wave after wave of our own men, they'll shut down, assuring us victory!

gradii

Yeah sure use the timeship, and suddenly none of us ever existed! but neither did the Iconians! VICTORY!!!!

draigon

This is what happens when the average span of cadet to admiral is 1 year.

drakethewhite

We are flooded in this game with Admirals and Generals (including ourselves) and yet for some reason the biggest most dangerous war ever is being commanded by... Captains?

Edit: Yes, it was a stupid plan. The point at this time would be to give ground slowly. Instead our fearless leader decides to wreck the entire fleet at one go and lose quickly. Idiot, he makes the likes of George McClellan look brilliant.

I'm starting to hate this game. No sense. No Star Trek feel. Just flashing lights and rank stupidity for all.

phalanx01

Captain Brannigan... err I mean Kagran explaining his tactics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfU69_up02Y

coupaholic

If it helps I'm sure he'll die in some crazy over-dramatised way soon enough.​​

arachnaas

Can I just shoot him for gross incompetence? At this point he should probably execute his first officer for not having the Guramba to call him out on it. "I'm having you executed for not having the courage to kill me."

picard51

yeah, honorable suicide as penance for TRIBBLE up this badly

qziqza

there has been no sense of urgency 'what so ever' created in game around this war, no stark reminders, nothing visual in the general game, or sectors. so any kind of extreme response, or last stand type thing is just looking totally unwarranted. on our return to the station all the npc's are saying.. 'was the loss really worth it?' well, if it actually felt like we were at war, felt like we were loosing that war, and hadn't just spent the last several weeks lazing around risa, maybe.. as it is though, it really makes no sense. and that is before even considering the justification for what we just did, and what we are planning to do. ​​

mustrumridcully0

We either accept the claim that the situation is dire or we don't, I suppose.

If we don't, his actions won't make sense, because there is obviously no critical reason to launch a risky assault. If we believe it, then obviously there is such a reason.

I wonder if replaying the Iconian War when it's finished, all missions in a row, will be able to instill some sense of urgency.
But if you spend weeks between the episodes on Risa, you just can't possible get that feeling.

If you just take the Iconian episodes:

- Iconians enter the war, Herald ships attack all over the place. A Federation Starbase is lost, and New Romulus is barely saved, but we lose the Preserver Archive and with it the last preservers.
- Iconians attack Q'onos, we barely manage to hold back the initial wave.
- But additional ships are coming, and we have to stop the Heralds establishing a foothold on Q'onos.
- We launch attacks against the Herald Sphere, but fail to have a lasting impact - the Iconian gateway system keeps working.
- We barely manage to stop the Solanae from entering our space.
- We find the surviving Krenim

No, reading that, I think we need a few more clear-cut losses to actually make the situation feel as dire. As long as we can hold back the Heralds on key planets, the situation is just not that dire!

I think some Herald Patrols, Red Alerts or similar missions would really, really be good.
Maybe something where we need to escort refugees from worlds that have been taken over by the Heralds?
Maybe something where we only come just in time to see some major destruction happening and only stick around to save a few people. ​​

[Deleted User]

gofasternow wrote: »

I mean, seriously, we've had... what, five missions, three of them his ideas that involve trying to smash Iconians in the face and all we do is just make the situation worse. I don't care if he's a Klingon or he's a warrior or all of that honor bull-hockey, he's messed up and he needs to be dragged off somewhere where he can't hurt anyone again...

...if there's any NPCs left after this.

And this is why I said we should ban the Klingons from any war planning role after the clusterf**k their supposed "elite covert ops" guys managed to cause in "House Pratfall". Contrast "Delta Flight", which is Starfleet-led, and the protagonists fight smart and actually achieve their mission objective.

Blind aggression and glory-hounding is not the way to win a war. This is exactly why no matter how hard they fight, the Klingons are never going to win against the Federation.

gulberat

You know, based on this line of speculation, I actually think I know, IF we are going to use the Krenim weapon (which I still have severe reservations about, plot railroading aside), who we should erase from the timeline:

J'mpok.

This idiot led the Klingons to war against everybody, when after their behavior towards the Cardassians, they should have KNOWN that repeating the same behavior pattern against the Federation that they did to such disastrous ends in 2372 would cause the Feds to react to anger and disbelief regarding the Undine infiltration. Peaceful as the Feds might be under normal circumstances, if you push them, they react just like anybody else.

I would also suggest, though I am sure the Klink players will HATE me for this, that such an erasure would be in line with Cryptic's stated objective to go faction-agnostic with future content. Erasing J'mpok has potential to lead to a timeline where the Klingons are either still led by Martok, or by an ideological successor of Martok, and the Khitomer Accords remain intact. I would be in support of this move, personally, because it might allow for the Klingons to be written in a more intelligent manner. I wouldn't hold my breath on the idea of more intelligent Klingons, but it would at least allow for a restart of the timeline without the Klingon-Federation War. This would mean a serious setback to their attempt to destabilize the quadrant. If you had the Federation in a position where they were willing to listen to the Klingons about the Undine (which they will NOT if it is obviously a mere excuse for territorial aggrandizement instead of a sincere warning), then you could get the Feds spearheading attempts to contact the Undine and warn them that they are being used. This then opens the potential for a Klingon-Romulan-Federation-Undine alliance, or at least removes the Undine as aggressors and opens up another front against the Iconians, should the Iconians try to attack.

That said, the fact that the Iconians destabilized galactic politics before even attacking suggests to me the possibility that they might not dare attack against a fully unified Alpha Quadrant. We know that a massive alliance is what they fear the most.

Of course, all of this is moot should there be some sort of unintended consequence of erasing J'mpok that makes everything worse instead of better--and that is the great fear with the Krenim weapon. But it does make me think a lot about the game could be fixed in one fell swoop. Just get rid of that one dunderhead, permanently.

qziqza

StarSword-C wrote: »

gofasternow wrote: »

I mean, seriously, we've had... what, five missions, three of them his ideas that involve trying to smash Iconians in the face and all we do is just make the situation worse. I don't care if he's a Klingon or he's a warrior or all of that honor bull-hockey, he's messed up and he needs to be dragged off somewhere where he can't hurt anyone again...

...if there's any NPCs left after this.

And this is why I said we should ban the Klingons from any war planning role after the clusterf**k their supposed "elite covert ops" guys managed to cause in "House Pratfall". Contrast "Delta Flight", which is Starfleet-led, and the protagonists fight smart and actually achieve their mission objective.

Blind aggression and glory-hounding is not the way to win a war. This is exactly why no matter how hard they fight, the Klingons are never going to win against the Federation.

not so quick missy lady twinkling blade.. dont forget that the gallant tom paris on 2 'we have to do this' missions has uttered.. we're pulling back.. 1st his daughter gets us back on track and then 'crazy with explosives' klingon does the 'klingon thing' gets us back on track (given the choice i would have attempted a diplomatic dialogue or at least asked M'Tara why rather than what we did, but i digress) pale in comparison to the fool(hardy) brannigan, but he isnt representative of all klingons just a few-some-many of them.

​​

artan42

So why's that pillock in command of the Alliance fleet anyway? I didn't vote for him and my new main's a Klingon. Why don't we get an option to stick a knife in his constantly moving mouth? ​​

gulberat

artan42 wrote: »

So why's that pillock in command of the Alliance fleet anyway? I didn't vote for him and my new main's a Klingon. Why don't we get an option to stick a knife in his constantly moving mouth? ​​

Sadly, until this mission, I was actually willing to believe that there might be some post-Gorkon signs of intelligence in the Klingon Empire after all: the fact that the guy actually could hold a conversation instead of just "growl growl glory honor growl RAWR!!!11!11!" was noticeable. And he focused on the future instead of constantly waving the Federation's supposed failings (which were really the KLINGONS' fault!) over our heads in the middle of combat when we were fighting our butts off.

But then with this maneuver, he turned out to be just as stupid as the rest.

artan42

gulberat wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

So why's that pillock in command of the Alliance fleet anyway? I didn't vote for him and my new main's a Klingon. Why don't we get an option to stick a knife in his constantly moving mouth?

Sadly, until this mission, I was actually willing to believe that there might be some post-Gorkon signs of intelligence in the Klingon Empire after all: the fact that the guy actually could hold a conversation instead of just "growl growl glory honor growl RAWR!!!11!11!" was noticeable. And he focused on the future instead of constantly waving the Federation's supposed failings (which were really the KLINGONS' fault!) over our heads in the middle of combat when we were fighting our butts off.

But then with this maneuver, he turned out to be just as stupid as the rest.

I miss Gorkon . If we can resurrect the Emperor why not him? Him and TOS Kor (was it him?, the one on Organia).​​

gulberat

artan42 wrote: »

I miss Gorkon . If we can resurrect the Emperor why not him? Him and TOS Kor (was it him?, the one on Organia).​​

Unfortunately I doubt we could do that, especially since as with Kahless, there's no way he would be the same man with the same mindset and experiences as the original.

Gorkon was a true Thought Admiral. How much better off the Empire might have been if he'd lived.

artan42

gulberat wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

I miss Gorkon . If we can resurrect the Emperor why not him? Him and TOS Kor (was it him?, the one on Organia).

Unfortunately I doubt we could do that, especially since as with Kahless, there's no way he would be the same man with the same mindset and experiences as the original.

Gorkon was a true Thought Admiral. How much better off the Empire might have been if he'd lived.

It's a shame we didn't encounter Chang in Gre'thor. He never lived to see the Empire decline for what he'd done.
​​

gulberat

artan42 wrote: »

gulberat wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

I miss Gorkon . If we can resurrect the Emperor why not him? Him and TOS Kor (was it him?, the one on Organia).

Unfortunately I doubt we could do that, especially since as with Kahless, there's no way he would be the same man with the same mindset and experiences as the original.

Gorkon was a true Thought Admiral. How much better off the Empire might have been if he'd lived.

It's a shame we didn't encounter Chang in Gre'thor. He never lived to see the Empire decline for what he'd done.
​​

Heh, that would actually half convince me to roll a Klingon just to see that. Or at least to do so on Tribble.

qziqza

artan42 wrote: »

So why's that pillock in command of the Alliance fleet anyway? I didn't vote for him and my new main's a Klingon. Why don't we get an option to stick a knife in his constantly moving mouth?

i just wanted to +1 your use of the word pillock.

arachnaas wrote: »

We have photonic officers. You might never be able to have a clone Boff of Gorkon, or Kahless, but there are all sorts of historical figures that could be used. If Shakespeare can be a Doff, then historical photonics could be some neat extra content.

we really need a rep system +1 in lieu of such a thing ever happening.​​

arachnaas

We have photonic officers. You might never be able to have a clone Boff of Gorkon, or Kahless, but there are all sorts of historical figures that could be used. If Shakespeare can be a Doff, then historical photonics could be some neat extra content.

drakethewhite

arachnaas wrote: »

We have photonic officers. You might never be able to have a clone Boff of Gorkon, or Kahless, but there are all sorts of historical figures that could be used. If Shakespeare can be a Doff, then historical photonics could be some neat extra content.

Yes, but the numskulls who are in charge of the Federation would be selecting which photonic they'd used to help with this crisis. They'd pick people like Neville Chamberlain or Ambrose Burnside.

gulberat

drakethewhite wrote: »

Yes, but the numskulls who are in charge of the Federation would be selecting which photonic they'd used to help with this crisis. They'd pick people like Neville Chamberlain or Ambrose Burnside.

Ouch! So true! Picard certainly seemed to be a Chamberlain copy sometimes (because rolling over and showing the Cardassians one's soft belly is such a good idea )...would fit right in as a sort of twisted nod to Picard's obvious Anglophilia.

artan42

gulberat wrote: »

drakethewhite wrote: »

Yes, but the numskulls who are in charge of the Federation would be selecting which photonic they'd used to help with this crisis. They'd pick people like Neville Chamberlain or Ambrose Burnside.

Ouch! So true! Picard certainly seemed to be a Chamberlain copy sometimes (because rolling over and showing the Cardassians one's soft belly is such a good idea )...would fit right in as a sort of twisted nod to Picard's obvious Anglophilia.

Good day T'Ket. Tea? So, how much territory would you like off of us today?​​

arachnaas

drakethewhite wrote: »

Yes, but the numskulls who are in charge of the Federation would be selecting which photonic they'd used to help with this crisis. They'd pick people like Neville Chamberlain or Ambrose Burnside.

I was more talking as crew members, rather than Photonic Gorkon as Chancellor. I have a feeling that people just are not going to trust that a photonic person is as creative a leader as even a clone.

There is also my ulterior motive of getting photonic Iconian bridge officers because I don't want all the work that went into making the characters to be gone after this arc is over.

gulberat

artan42 wrote: »

gulberat wrote: »

drakethewhite wrote: »

Yes, but the numskulls who are in charge of the Federation would be selecting which photonic they'd used to help with this crisis. They'd pick people like Neville Chamberlain or Ambrose Burnside.

Ouch! So true! Picard certainly seemed to be a Chamberlain copy sometimes (because rolling over and showing the Cardassians one's soft belly is such a good idea )...would fit right in as a sort of twisted nod to Picard's obvious Anglophilia.

Good day T'Ket. Tea? So, how much territory would you like off of us today?​​

"How about Mol'Rihan?"

"Sure, we have a treaty to defend them with the full force of the Federation in the event of any invasion, but forget the treaty, you can have them!"

On topic, I DO think we needed to make a show of force against the Iconians, and that they wouldn't even think to negotiate without being shown conclusively that we could take them out at will, but I think we would have done better to weaken M'Tara severely but leave her a reasonable chance to survive.

leviathan99

drakethewhite wrote: »

We are flooded in this game with Admirals and Generals (including ourselves) and yet for some reason the biggest most dangerous war ever is being commanded by... Captains?

Edit: Yes, it was a stupid plan. The point at this time would be to give ground slowly. Instead our fearless leader decides to wreck the entire fleet at one go and lose quickly. Idiot, he makes the likes of George McClellan look brilliant.

I'm starting to hate this game. No sense. No Star Trek feel. Just flashing lights and rank stupidity for all.

I maintain that it would have worked best, had the game been built with the foresight of all the systems, to make Captain the top rank and the Admiral titles honorifics that we can have NPCs address us as and get additional dialogue options for in exchange for DOff participation. An Admiral in Trek is basically a power mad captain with extra paperwork.

Various times, I have suggested that this be done and that "legacy" admirals simply be granted to accolades that unlock the titles while new ones would need to DOff for it.

Any 3 commendation categories = Rear Admiral
Any 6 = Vice Admiral
Any 9 = Admiral
All 12 = Fleet Admiral

And basically these would grant additional dialogue options where you can override people. Sometimes you might get a mission shortcut for replay. Sometimes, the same stuff would happen but would play out differently, say, by having Quinn or J'mpok call you up and order you to go with the subordinate's plan.

artan42

gulberat wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

gulberat wrote: »

drakethewhite wrote: »

Yes, but the numskulls who are in charge of the Federation would be selecting which photonic they'd used to help with this crisis. They'd pick people like Neville Chamberlain or Ambrose Burnside.

Ouch! So true! Picard certainly seemed to be a Chamberlain copy sometimes (because rolling over and showing the Cardassians one's soft belly is such a good idea )...would fit right in as a sort of twisted nod to Picard's obvious Anglophilia.

Good day T'Ket. Tea? So, how much territory would you like off of us today?

"How about Mol'Rihan?"

"Sure, we have a treaty to defend them with the full force of the Federation in the event of any invasion, but forget the treaty, you can have them!"

On topic, I DO think we needed to make a show of force against the Iconians, and that they wouldn't even think to negotiate without being shown conclusively that we could take them out at will, but I think we would have done better to weaken M'Tara severely but leave her a reasonable chance to survive.

I agree we need a show of force, it's just that that show of force should have been in 'House Peg', take off more than her arm and repeat on the next Iconian we find in a similar manner (by covert opps) not by throwing so many ships at a futile attack and hoping M'Tera kills herself by tripping over the bodies. ​​