My faves were the Corps of Engineers books. NO canon characters (except TNG Scotty, and he wasn't seen often) whatsoever, they used canon races for characters, but made up new characters. The core premise is to show the somewhat less-glorious side of Starfleet.
Actually Sonya Gomez was on two episodes of TNG...she was the one who spillt the hot chocolate on Captain Picard in Main Engineering...hehehe what a bad first impression to make. I would have been mortified if that was me
My faves were the Corps of Engineers books. NO canon characters (except TNG Scotty, and he wasn't seen often) whatsoever, they used canon races for characters, but made up new characters. The core premise is to show the somewhat less-glorious side of Starfleet.
Actually Sonya Gomez was on two episodes of TNG...she was the one who spillt the hot chocolate on Captain Picard in Main Engineering...hehehe what a bad first impression to make. I would have been mortified if that was me
Oh right, minor character. I forgot she was in the TV show.
Honestly though, I expect the temporal tech used to be for travel to the past rather then an Annorax style incursion. Like Iconians, I believe the current day alliance and the one that attacked Iconia will end up being one and the same.
.
I'm convinced this will be the case, though I don't think our trip to the past will be deliberate.
An accident? Yeah I could actually see this. Maybe the Alliance is sending it's fleet against the Iconian Sphere/Iconia itself. They activate the temporal shielding so they don' get affected by the incursion, but something goes awry and they get shunted back in time. They arrive at Iconia to find no sphere, and the planet inhabited and undevastated.
"Ah hell..."
With the right writing, dealing with this (Especially if the Iconians are actually nice back then) could be a truly epic ending to the Iconian War. How do you save the Iconians, and yet stop the war in the future? My guess is that some ham-handed genocide cowboy goes ahead with the attack anyways. The player decides or has the option to save the Iconians- perhaps aided by some of the iconic characters (Shon, Tiaru, Paris, etc) and may even result in a civil war of sorts within the alliance. Perhaps you set the temporal shielding to cover Iconia and the "good guys", and leave the "genocide faction" unprotected. You then fire the weapon at Iconia.
After first modifying/resetting it to send Iconia **forward** in time rather then erasing it.
Genocide Crew gets erased, Iconia gets saved, war is over. And the Other saved them before, the Other will save them again as the Prophet in the wormhole said. Being non-Linear, he did not realise it was all effective one time, one incident. As far as the Iconians? If their memories get erased going into the future there is a zero net effect since it's a forward shunt. End result, Iconians now see that light and dark can be found in all species. Maybe evene we can find out just what was going on with the Preservers too. I do not really see the Preservers themselves as being evil-but I would not rule out one of them being evil and or insane, and maybe this one started the whole "right and duty" to rule the galaxy thing. Maybe you get a chance to diplomatically argue against what the hypothetical rogue Preserver is saying? Both of you trying to convince M'Tara of the righteousness of your cause? Better then just be a Dalek by far.
Solenae and Jenolan dyson spheres, hmm... maybe if it all works out M'Tara just tells the Solenae "Build these spheres...can't say why really, too complicated" or maybe she looks at you, says "You know...the Solenae really are a bunch f evil whackjobs... &@#% them..."
Potato, po-tah-to. One could argue semantics til they're blue in the face.
Point is. There's a threat that exists with little to no chance of peaceful cohabitation. We have only one choice, even if it means going against our ideals.
Has nothing to do with semantics. Would you rather be killed or lied to? The very episode you mentioned was a perfect example. The Federation was losing the war against the Dominion. Badly. Did Sisko develop some kind of WOMD? No.
The great thing about Star Trek is that peaceful cohabitation is possible no matter how unlikely the odds are or how gruesome your enemy is. This was shown in the TOS episode "Arena" and to a greater extent, Star Trek VI. The only thing stopping a chance at peaceful cohabitation is an unwillingness to accept that it's a viable alternative due to your own preconceptions and beliefs. So, challenge your preconceptions or they will challenge you.
Of course, the whole "moral high ground" thing was thrown to the wind by TNG, and enemies were made with little interest in peace as a result of how ugly they are or how Starfleet attempts to force the rest of the galaxy to abide by their culture, and if they don't, then they are evil and must be stopped at all costs.
This was also pretty evident with Star Trek Insurrection when there was no attempt at making peace with the Son'a -- it took the Son'a to take the first step to reintegration with the Ba'ku, Picard and Riker were too focused on blowing them up for funsies.
Depending on the lie, yes... I think I would rather be killed, given the circumstances. If Starfleet is going to at least pay lip service to holding the moral high ground against the rest of the galaxy, then there should be some some semblance of being willing to die for what you believe in. If Starfleet believes in truth, justice, and the Federation way -- then they should be willing to pay the price for their beliefs.
The great part about In the Pale Moonlight is yes, it brought the Romulans into the war -- and helped push the tide in "Our" favor. But look at the episode through the eyes of a Romulan -- they were lied to and their sons and daughters and friends and family who served and died during the Dominion War did so based upon the selfishness and emotional irreconciliation of Benjamin Sisko. People died because of a lie.
But we don't care about them, because we just care about Sisko. If Sisko doesn't die -- it doesn't matter who gets lied to, or why.
If the choice for me is to die or be lied to, it depends on the consequences of the lie. If that lie might save me personally, but condemn several trillion people to death or suffering -- I think I'd rather get killed instead. If you start a war over a lie, there will be people who will take issue with that even if their own lives were never on the line.
It goes double for those lives that were on the line and were killed or maimed as a result.
This was also pretty evident with Star Trek Insurrection when there was no attempt at making peace with the Son'a -- it took the Son'a to take the first step to reintegration with the Ba'ku, Picard and Riker were too focused on blowing them up for funsies.
Did we watch the same movie? Because the Son'a shot first and ignored all attempts at a resolution. Oh and Riker only blew up one of their ships when he could have destroyed all of them.
This was also pretty evident with Star Trek Insurrection when there was no attempt at making peace with the Son'a -- it took the Son'a to take the first step to reintegration with the Ba'ku, Picard and Riker were too focused on blowing them up for funsies.
Did we watch the same movie? Because the Son'a shot first and ignored all attempts at a resolution. Oh and Riker only blew up one of their ships when he could have destroyed all of them.
At the end of Insurrection, Gallatin betrays Ru'afo and returns to the Ba'ku. There was clearly potential for a peace between the two people -- but Starfleet had no interest in that. They saw the Son'a as the bad guys who needed killing.
A great example was that the Enterprise-E beamed Picard off of the Collector before it blew up despite being able to also beam Ru'afo off as well. Maybe Ru'afo could have been saved, rehabilitated. At the very least he could have been brought to justice in a Federation court.
But no, Riker was too willing to play Judge, Jury, and Executioner and and let him die while beaming Picard aboard.
Of course, I'm willing to chalk all of this up to the horrible story, but it's important to remember that after TNG, Starfleet became more interested in pressing their beliefs on the galaxy until they came across alien cultures that could easily kill them. Then they called for peace, diplomacy, and understanding. If they didn't have the ability to kill Enterprise, DS9, or Voyager? Then Starfleet played the moral superiority card.
Except when it came to an Undine, and that's just because Janeway was psychotic.
This was also pretty evident with Star Trek Insurrection when there was no attempt at making peace with the Son'a -- it took the Son'a to take the first step to reintegration with the Ba'ku, Picard and Riker were too focused on blowing them up for funsies.
Did we watch the same movie? Because the Son'a shot first and ignored all attempts at a resolution. Oh and Riker only blew up one of their ships when he could have destroyed all of them.
At the end of Insurrection, Gallatin betrays Ru'afo and returns to the Ba'ku. There was clearly potential for a peace between the two people -- but Starfleet had no interest in that. They saw the Son'a as the bad guys who needed killing.
A great example was that the Enterprise-E beamed Picard off of the Collector before it blew up despite being able to also beam Ru'afo off as well. Maybe Ru'afo could have been saved, rehabilitated. At the very least he could have been brought to justice in a Federation court.
But no, Riker was too willing to play Judge, Jury, and Executioner and and let him die while beaming Picard aboard.
Of course, I'm willing to chalk all of this up to the horrible story, but it's important to remember that after TNG, Starfleet became more interested in pressing their beliefs on the galaxy until they came across alien cultures that could easily kill them. Then they called for peace, diplomacy, and understanding. If they didn't have the ability to kill Enterprise, DS9, or Voyager? Then Starfleet played the moral superiority card.
Except when it came to an Undine, and that's just because Janeway was psychotic.
Sooo... you condemn the motives of Riker, and by extension the entire Federation, for allowing the one Son'a they had the most reason to want dead to die? That seems illogical given how far Ru'afo went in his attempts to kill them.
As for a trial.... Ru'afo wasn't a Federation citizen. He was the despot of his own little fiefdom. Trying him for crimes against the Federation is legally questionable.
This was also pretty evident with Star Trek Insurrection when there was no attempt at making peace with the Son'a -- it took the Son'a to take the first step to reintegration with the Ba'ku, Picard and Riker were too focused on blowing them up for funsies.
Did we watch the same movie? Because the Son'a shot first and ignored all attempts at a resolution. Oh and Riker only blew up one of their ships when he could have destroyed all of them.
At the end of Insurrection, Gallatin betrays Ru'afo and returns to the Ba'ku. There was clearly potential for a peace between the two people -- but Starfleet had no interest in that. They saw the Son'a as the bad guys who needed killing.
A great example was that the Enterprise-E beamed Picard off of the Collector before it blew up despite being able to also beam Ru'afo off as well. Maybe Ru'afo could have been saved, rehabilitated. At the very least he could have been brought to justice in a Federation court.
But no, Riker was too willing to play Judge, Jury, and Executioner and and let him die while beaming Picard aboard.
Of course, I'm willing to chalk all of this up to the horrible story, but it's important to remember that after TNG, Starfleet became more interested in pressing their beliefs on the galaxy until they came across alien cultures that could easily kill them. Then they called for peace, diplomacy, and understanding. If they didn't have the ability to kill Enterprise, DS9, or Voyager? Then Starfleet played the moral superiority card.
Except when it came to an Undine, and that's just because Janeway was psychotic.
Sooo... you condemn the motives of Riker, and by extension the entire Federation, for allowing the one Son'a they had the most reason to want dead to die? That seems illogical given how far Ru'afo went in his attempts to kill them.
As for a trial.... Ru'afo wasn't a Federation citizen. He was the despot of his own little fiefdom. Trying him for crimes against the Federation is legally questionable.
It's not up to Riker, Picard, or the Enterprise-E to judge Ru'afo's fate. That's the exact kind of moral superiority card they play. If anything, it's up to the Ba'ku to decide what to do with him. Not the Enterprise. Not Starfleet.
Especially not Starfleet, considering they are the ones who signed off on a Ba'ku Genocide by the authority of Admiral Doughtery. Starfleet has no jurisdiction, legally or morally in regards to Ru'afo.
The Ba'ku were deprived of actual justice and given vigilante justice. Sure, maybe Ru'afo had it coming. But that's not up to us to decide.
As for him owning a fiefdom? The Federation is like the Hague. They will capture and imprison anyone regardless of nationality. Without trial.
So, either the Enterprise had no jurisdiction in the Ba'ku Son'a conflict at all, or they took it upon themselves to right a wrong once they were pulled into the conflict. If they did, they didn't do so with Federation beliefs in mind.
If they did, they cherry-picked which Federation beliefs they were willing to stand up for, and ignored the ones that were inconvenient for them.
If they did, they cherry-picked which Federation beliefs they were willing to stand up for, and ignored the ones that were inconvenient for them.
Isn't this how all societies function all the time?
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
If they did, they cherry-picked which Federation beliefs they were willing to stand up for, and ignored the ones that were inconvenient for them.
Isn't this how all societies function all the time?
Yes, which makes the Federation hypocrits. It's the idea that they think they aren't hypocrits and have a moral high ground they're willing to take that I take issue with. If they're going to be hypocrits, they should admit it. Embrace it. Sisko was willing to live with his decision and admitted his hypocrisy.
Janeway (and several other characters in STO's storyline) still don't believe they are hypocritical, even though it's gotten us in several hostile conflicts already. The Iconian War just the most prolific at the moment.
The federation actually thinking of genocide makes this whole war more unbelieveable. The only ones I can see who would welcome this and even advocate it would be the KDF and the Romulans
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The federation actually thinking of genocide makes this whole war more unbelieveable. The only ones I can see who would welcome this and even advocate it would be the KDF and the Romulans
I would go as far as saying that not even the KDF, apart from a select number of isolated individuals, would feel it's right according to their ways to wipe out the entire enemy civilization with some deus ex machina reset button. Klingons would prefer to face the enemy in direct combat and either conquer them or go to Sto'vo'kor by dying on the battlefield for the Emprie.
Sisko even allowed an effort to stop a Section 31 genocide against the Founders that S31 had actually implemented, to go forward.
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This was also pretty evident with Star Trek Insurrection when there was no attempt at making peace with the Son'a -- it took the Son'a to take the first step to reintegration with the Ba'ku, Picard and Riker were too focused on blowing them up for funsies.
Did we watch the same movie? Because the Son'a shot first and ignored all attempts at a resolution. Oh and Riker only blew up one of their ships when he could have destroyed all of them.
At the end of Insurrection, Gallatin betrays Ru'afo and returns to the Ba'ku. There was clearly potential for a peace between the two people -- but Starfleet had no interest in that. They saw the Son'a as the bad guys who needed killing.
A great example was that the Enterprise-E beamed Picard off of the Collector before it blew up despite being able to also beam Ru'afo off as well. Maybe Ru'afo could have been saved, rehabilitated. At the very least he could have been brought to justice in a Federation court.
But no, Riker was too willing to play Judge, Jury, and Executioner and and let him die while beaming Picard aboard.
Of course, I'm willing to chalk all of this up to the horrible story, but it's important to remember that after TNG, Starfleet became more interested in pressing their beliefs on the galaxy until they came across alien cultures that could easily kill them. Then they called for peace, diplomacy, and understanding. If they didn't have the ability to kill Enterprise, DS9, or Voyager? Then Starfleet played the moral superiority card.
Except when it came to an Undine, and that's just because Janeway was psychotic.
Sooo... you condemn the motives of Riker, and by extension the entire Federation, for allowing the one Son'a they had the most reason to want dead to die? That seems illogical given how far Ru'afo went in his attempts to kill them.
As for a trial.... Ru'afo wasn't a Federation citizen. He was the despot of his own little fiefdom. Trying him for crimes against the Federation is legally questionable.
It's not up to Riker, Picard, or the Enterprise-E to judge Ru'afo's fate. That's the exact kind of moral superiority card they play. If anything, it's up to the Ba'ku to decide what to do with him. Not the Enterprise. Not Starfleet.
Especially not Starfleet, considering they are the ones who signed off on a Ba'ku Genocide by the authority of Admiral Doughtery. Starfleet has no jurisdiction, legally or morally in regards to Ru'afo.
The Ba'ku were deprived of actual justice and given vigilante justice. Sure, maybe Ru'afo had it coming. But that's not up to us to decide.
As for him owning a fiefdom? The Federation is like the Hague. They will capture and imprison anyone regardless of nationality. Without trial.
So, either the Enterprise had no jurisdiction in the Ba'ku Son'a conflict at all, or they took it upon themselves to right a wrong once they were pulled into the conflict. If they did, they didn't do so with Federation beliefs in mind.
If they did, they cherry-picked which Federation beliefs they were willing to stand up for, and ignored the ones that were inconvenient for them.
Actually, one thing you conveniently forgot is that killing the Ba'ku was something Ru'afo came up with as a backup plan after his original idea was thwarted. That was the whole point of the holoship. Put the Ba'ku some place where they wouldn't die when the collector was turned on. Also, Ru'afo apparently lied to Dougherty about who the Ba'ku were. Since you seem to have forgotten, Dougherty told Ru'afo that he was pulling the plug on the operation when he found out the Son'a were the same race as the Ba'ku. Which is why Ru'afo killed him....
Ru'afo lied to the Federation several times about several things. He is the architect of the whole mess, sure Starfleet was involved, but more as an unwitting pawn than anything else. The worst thing the Federation was willing to do was a covert relocation of a population they thought was a pre-warp civ.
1. The worst voice acting and script writing for an episode yet. Seriously what is that?
2. If you want to make it seem like there is an actual war and that it is going badly, show it! Do some cut scenes of devastated planets. Fill areas of sector space with Iconian baddies.
All we keep getting are lame missions where the player kicks everyone's TRIBBLE, succeeds at everything only to see NPCs fail and be told the sky is falling. For something you've been building towards for 3 years the execution is horrible.
We're excited to announce our latest Featured Episode Broken Circle! Join the Alliance in a desperate battle to save their future from the Iconian menace in Season 10.5!
Mission have so many bugs, its just not funny anymore.
(space)When you enter the sphere and kill the enemies before you hail, you will not get any enemies and need to restart.
(ground)1 room before you get the 4 consoles, if you put mines on the ground and she spawn on the mines you can't activate console 2, if you goto the room with 4 consoles you only can activate 3 consoles but the iconian doesn't come.
With both bugs, if you beam out you can't get back to the map and dropping it is the only way the restart the mission.
This episode started out well enough. A bit of talking about the situation to give everyone a heads-up on where the story stands is always welcome. It's much better to have this in a featured episode than in the queues (where cinematics and voiceovers tend to get on everybody's nerves after about the third playthrough).
When it came to ground combat is where it started to get annoying. Yes, I get it, the Iconians are a tough bunch to kill and so it's not as simple as going after one and shooting it down. But do you think you could reduce the number of consoles you have to interact with only to have the Iconian appear again, knock down some of its health before it disappears and then you get to repeat the process? Two, maybe three times at most would be good. Any more and it takes away from the enjoyment of the game, especially since you "have to" repeat these episodes several times on different characters.
I put "have to" in quotation marks because that applies only if you actually want some of the rewards. As it is, the rewards are so enticing one is tempted to play through even annoying content just so they can be got with every character on an account.
Strangely, I've found that the fun things tend to reward less and less and players start playing the annoying stuff simply because they want the goodies. Should those be inversely proportional to one another? I think not.
Having played through it a couple of times, I didn't find it as bad as I was expecting based on forum comments.
Plot holes? Sure. Try to do a temporal storyline without 'em. Was M'Tara stupid to keep gating back? Well, yeah. But maybe shutting down those junctions was doing more damage than we knew and she had no choice but to try to stop us.
Regarding the "Us VS. Them" debate, it's not like she decided it was a good time to open negotiations... she kept trying to kill us despite her increasing weakness. Maybe it says something about the Iconians that they'd rather die than admit they aren't so superior after all.
The plot and motivations have all kinds of issues that we can debate about. I grant that. But I never felt that there weren't somewhat plausible explanations or that the progression of the plot was unforgivably illogical or nonsensical. It was playable for me. Certainly not the best mission to ever come out of STO but hardly the worst.
I wouldn't feel bad about giving it 2.5 out of 5. Maybe even a 3. If I have any criticism, it's that the war blog entries are better written than the actual missions. I hope future missions are far less reliant on blog entries to fill out the plot.
Oh, what the heck.. One more criticism. I'm very tired of hearing about the 'broken unity' of the Iconians. I do not think those words mean what the writer is trying to make them mean. The Iconians seem unified enough to me at this point. Maybe they won't seem so unified in a future FE, but it sure looks like they all want to kill us now.
Oh, what the heck.. One more criticism. I'm very tired of hearing about the 'broken unity' of the Iconians. I do not think those words mean what the writer is trying to make them mean. The Iconians seem unified enough to me at this point. Maybe they won't seem so unified in a future FE, but it sure looks like they all want to kill us now.
But is it political of physical unification they're after? The later is how I've been reading it and it does make the current plot less arbitrarily messy.
This is Star Trek after all, you can't assume that non-corporeal space demons trying to form a collective or continuum of some sort is completely out of the question.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Having played through it a couple of times, I didn't find it as bad as I was expecting based on forum comments.
Plot holes? Sure. Try to do a temporal storyline without 'em. Was M'Tara stupid to keep gating back? Well, yeah. But maybe shutting down those junctions was doing more damage than we knew and she had no choice but to try to stop us.
Regarding the "Us VS. Them" debate, it's not like she decided it was a good time to open negotiations... she kept trying to kill us despite her increasing weakness. Maybe it says something about the Iconians that they'd rather die than admit they aren't so superior after all.
The plot and motivations have all kinds of issues that we can debate about. I grant that. But I never felt that there weren't somewhat plausible explanations or that the progression of the plot was unforgivably illogical or nonsensical. It was playable for me. Certainly not the best mission to ever come out of STO but hardly the worst.
I wouldn't feel bad about giving it 2.5 out of 5. Maybe even a 3. If I have any criticism, it's that the war blog entries are better written than the actual missions. I hope future missions are far less reliant on blog entries to fill out the plot.
Oh, what the heck.. One more criticism. I'm very tired of hearing about the 'broken unity' of the Iconians. I do not think those words mean what the writer is trying to make them mean. The Iconians seem unified enough to me at this point. Maybe they won't seem so unified in a future FE, but it sure looks like they all want to kill us now.
My best guess is that they used to have a hive mind or something and are slowly going insane without it. But they need to find the Other to reestablish it.
We're excited to announce our latest Featured Episode Broken Circle! Join the Alliance in a desperate battle to save their future from the Iconian menace in Season 10.5!
Mission have so many bugs, its just not funny anymore.
(space)When you enter the sphere and kill the enemies before you hail, you will not get any enemies and need to restart.
(ground)1 room before you get the 4 consoles, if you put mines on the ground and she spawn on the mines you can't activate console 2, if you goto the room with 4 consoles you only can activate 3 consoles but the iconian doesn't come.
With both bugs, if you beam out you can't get back to the map and dropping it is the only way the restart the mission.
I think this is like Uneasy allies where after a certain point the mission changes location in the galaxy, and in order to continue you have to fly to the new location. I'm guessing that it is the location of the Herald sphere near Iconia.
We're excited to announce our latest Featured Episode Broken Circle! Join the Alliance in a desperate battle to save their future from the Iconian menace in Season 10.5!
Mission have so many bugs, its just not funny anymore.
(space)When you enter the sphere and kill the enemies before you hail, you will not get any enemies and need to restart.
(ground)1 room before you get the 4 consoles, if you put mines on the ground and she spawn on the mines you can't activate console 2, if you goto the room with 4 consoles you only can activate 3 consoles but the iconian doesn't come.
With both bugs, if you beam out you can't get back to the map and dropping it is the only way the restart the mission.
I think this is like Uneasy allies where after a certain point the mission changes location in the galaxy, and in order to continue you have to fly to the new location. I'm guessing that it is the location of the Herald sphere near Iconia.
The location is actually in the Delta Quadrant if you beam up and have to continue later.
This is doable for a level 60 and I did this. Not doable for a level 10.
where to begin.... FIX THE ICONIAN GLITCHES jeez every single featured mission with heralds so far one or more of the heralds gate in to a wall or under the floor forcing me to have to abandon where i have gotten to and restart the whole thing when this happens to happen towards the end of the mission or ground section it becomes very VERY annoying, also some spawn point protection would be nice given half the time the second i respawn from a wipe the heralds are right on top of me killing me before i even get a chance to use any abilities and each time they get closer and closer to the spawn point untill they are actually all around me and i am getting flank damaged to death in seconds.
if you goto the room with 4 consoles you only can activate 3 consoles but the iconian doesn't come.
Really? I just did the mission and didn't have any trouble activating all 4 consoles and defeating M'Tara.
(ground)1 room before you get the 4 consoles, if you put mines on the ground and she spawn on the mines you can't activate console 2.
Did you put mines on the ground before she spawned and then did she spawned on the mines ???
Don't quote me out of context.
if you goto the room with 4 consoles you only can activate 3 consoles but the iconian doesn't come.
Really? I just did the mission and didn't have any trouble activating all 4 consoles and defeating M'Tara.
(ground)1 room before you get the 4 consoles, if you put mines on the ground and she spawn on the mines you can't activate console 2.
Did you put mines on the ground before she spawned and then did she spawned on the mines ???
Don't quote me out of context.
I actually think the bug ties into the order you activate the consoles in. I could be wrong about that but I THINK it's either caused because of a broken link when you activate them in the wrong order or something that pushes one of the reinforcement enemies through the floor/wall, blocking the next step from opening up.
I've noticed that if the Heralds vanish, you can wait for a couple minutes. They'll come running in from the entrance to the room. I think somehow the game is throwing them back to the beginning of the map, and they have to run back to you the long way.
____
Keep calm, and continue firing photon torpedoes.
Comments
Actually Sonya Gomez was on two episodes of TNG...she was the one who spillt the hot chocolate on Captain Picard in Main Engineering...hehehe what a bad first impression to make. I would have been mortified if that was me
My character Tsin'xing
An accident? Yeah I could actually see this. Maybe the Alliance is sending it's fleet against the Iconian Sphere/Iconia itself. They activate the temporal shielding so they don' get affected by the incursion, but something goes awry and they get shunted back in time. They arrive at Iconia to find no sphere, and the planet inhabited and undevastated.
"Ah hell..."
With the right writing, dealing with this (Especially if the Iconians are actually nice back then) could be a truly epic ending to the Iconian War. How do you save the Iconians, and yet stop the war in the future? My guess is that some ham-handed genocide cowboy goes ahead with the attack anyways. The player decides or has the option to save the Iconians- perhaps aided by some of the iconic characters (Shon, Tiaru, Paris, etc) and may even result in a civil war of sorts within the alliance. Perhaps you set the temporal shielding to cover Iconia and the "good guys", and leave the "genocide faction" unprotected. You then fire the weapon at Iconia.
After first modifying/resetting it to send Iconia **forward** in time rather then erasing it.
Genocide Crew gets erased, Iconia gets saved, war is over. And the Other saved them before, the Other will save them again as the Prophet in the wormhole said. Being non-Linear, he did not realise it was all effective one time, one incident. As far as the Iconians? If their memories get erased going into the future there is a zero net effect since it's a forward shunt. End result, Iconians now see that light and dark can be found in all species. Maybe evene we can find out just what was going on with the Preservers too. I do not really see the Preservers themselves as being evil-but I would not rule out one of them being evil and or insane, and maybe this one started the whole "right and duty" to rule the galaxy thing. Maybe you get a chance to diplomatically argue against what the hypothetical rogue Preserver is saying? Both of you trying to convince M'Tara of the righteousness of your cause? Better then just be a Dalek by far.
Solenae and Jenolan dyson spheres, hmm... maybe if it all works out M'Tara just tells the Solenae "Build these spheres...can't say why really, too complicated" or maybe she looks at you, says "You know...the Solenae really are a bunch f evil whackjobs... &@#% them..."
The Whole shall be as One.
The great thing about Star Trek is that peaceful cohabitation is possible no matter how unlikely the odds are or how gruesome your enemy is. This was shown in the TOS episode "Arena" and to a greater extent, Star Trek VI. The only thing stopping a chance at peaceful cohabitation is an unwillingness to accept that it's a viable alternative due to your own preconceptions and beliefs. So, challenge your preconceptions or they will challenge you.
Of course, the whole "moral high ground" thing was thrown to the wind by TNG, and enemies were made with little interest in peace as a result of how ugly they are or how Starfleet attempts to force the rest of the galaxy to abide by their culture, and if they don't, then they are evil and must be stopped at all costs.
This was also pretty evident with Star Trek Insurrection when there was no attempt at making peace with the Son'a -- it took the Son'a to take the first step to reintegration with the Ba'ku, Picard and Riker were too focused on blowing them up for funsies.
Depending on the lie, yes... I think I would rather be killed, given the circumstances. If Starfleet is going to at least pay lip service to holding the moral high ground against the rest of the galaxy, then there should be some some semblance of being willing to die for what you believe in. If Starfleet believes in truth, justice, and the Federation way -- then they should be willing to pay the price for their beliefs.
The great part about In the Pale Moonlight is yes, it brought the Romulans into the war -- and helped push the tide in "Our" favor. But look at the episode through the eyes of a Romulan -- they were lied to and their sons and daughters and friends and family who served and died during the Dominion War did so based upon the selfishness and emotional irreconciliation of Benjamin Sisko. People died because of a lie.
But we don't care about them, because we just care about Sisko. If Sisko doesn't die -- it doesn't matter who gets lied to, or why.
If the choice for me is to die or be lied to, it depends on the consequences of the lie. If that lie might save me personally, but condemn several trillion people to death or suffering -- I think I'd rather get killed instead. If you start a war over a lie, there will be people who will take issue with that even if their own lives were never on the line.
It goes double for those lives that were on the line and were killed or maimed as a result.
My character Tsin'xing
At the end of Insurrection, Gallatin betrays Ru'afo and returns to the Ba'ku. There was clearly potential for a peace between the two people -- but Starfleet had no interest in that. They saw the Son'a as the bad guys who needed killing.
A great example was that the Enterprise-E beamed Picard off of the Collector before it blew up despite being able to also beam Ru'afo off as well. Maybe Ru'afo could have been saved, rehabilitated. At the very least he could have been brought to justice in a Federation court.
But no, Riker was too willing to play Judge, Jury, and Executioner and and let him die while beaming Picard aboard.
Of course, I'm willing to chalk all of this up to the horrible story, but it's important to remember that after TNG, Starfleet became more interested in pressing their beliefs on the galaxy until they came across alien cultures that could easily kill them. Then they called for peace, diplomacy, and understanding. If they didn't have the ability to kill Enterprise, DS9, or Voyager? Then Starfleet played the moral superiority card.
Except when it came to an Undine, and that's just because Janeway was psychotic.
As for a trial.... Ru'afo wasn't a Federation citizen. He was the despot of his own little fiefdom. Trying him for crimes against the Federation is legally questionable.
My character Tsin'xing
It's not up to Riker, Picard, or the Enterprise-E to judge Ru'afo's fate. That's the exact kind of moral superiority card they play. If anything, it's up to the Ba'ku to decide what to do with him. Not the Enterprise. Not Starfleet.
Especially not Starfleet, considering they are the ones who signed off on a Ba'ku Genocide by the authority of Admiral Doughtery. Starfleet has no jurisdiction, legally or morally in regards to Ru'afo.
The Ba'ku were deprived of actual justice and given vigilante justice. Sure, maybe Ru'afo had it coming. But that's not up to us to decide.
As for him owning a fiefdom? The Federation is like the Hague. They will capture and imprison anyone regardless of nationality. Without trial.
So, either the Enterprise had no jurisdiction in the Ba'ku Son'a conflict at all, or they took it upon themselves to right a wrong once they were pulled into the conflict. If they did, they didn't do so with Federation beliefs in mind.
If they did, they cherry-picked which Federation beliefs they were willing to stand up for, and ignored the ones that were inconvenient for them.
Isn't this how all societies function all the time?
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Yes, which makes the Federation hypocrits. It's the idea that they think they aren't hypocrits and have a moral high ground they're willing to take that I take issue with. If they're going to be hypocrits, they should admit it. Embrace it. Sisko was willing to live with his decision and admitted his hypocrisy.
Janeway (and several other characters in STO's storyline) still don't believe they are hypocritical, even though it's gotten us in several hostile conflicts already. The Iconian War just the most prolific at the moment.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I would go as far as saying that not even the KDF, apart from a select number of isolated individuals, would feel it's right according to their ways to wipe out the entire enemy civilization with some deus ex machina reset button. Klingons would prefer to face the enemy in direct combat and either conquer them or go to Sto'vo'kor by dying on the battlefield for the Emprie.
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Ru'afo lied to the Federation several times about several things. He is the architect of the whole mess, sure Starfleet was involved, but more as an unwitting pawn than anything else. The worst thing the Federation was willing to do was a covert relocation of a population they thought was a pre-warp civ.
My character Tsin'xing
2. If you want to make it seem like there is an actual war and that it is going badly, show it! Do some cut scenes of devastated planets. Fill areas of sector space with Iconian baddies.
All we keep getting are lame missions where the player kicks everyone's TRIBBLE, succeeds at everything only to see NPCs fail and be told the sky is falling. For something you've been building towards for 3 years the execution is horrible.
Mission have so many bugs, its just not funny anymore.
(space)When you enter the sphere and kill the enemies before you hail, you will not get any enemies and need to restart.
(ground)1 room before you get the 4 consoles, if you put mines on the ground and she spawn on the mines you can't activate console 2, if you goto the room with 4 consoles you only can activate 3 consoles but the iconian doesn't come.
With both bugs, if you beam out you can't get back to the map and dropping it is the only way the restart the mission.
Really? I just did the mission and didn't have any trouble activating all 4 consoles and defeating M'Tara.
When it came to ground combat is where it started to get annoying. Yes, I get it, the Iconians are a tough bunch to kill and so it's not as simple as going after one and shooting it down. But do you think you could reduce the number of consoles you have to interact with only to have the Iconian appear again, knock down some of its health before it disappears and then you get to repeat the process? Two, maybe three times at most would be good. Any more and it takes away from the enjoyment of the game, especially since you "have to" repeat these episodes several times on different characters.
I put "have to" in quotation marks because that applies only if you actually want some of the rewards. As it is, the rewards are so enticing one is tempted to play through even annoying content just so they can be got with every character on an account.
Strangely, I've found that the fun things tend to reward less and less and players start playing the annoying stuff simply because they want the goodies. Should those be inversely proportional to one another? I think not.
Plot holes? Sure. Try to do a temporal storyline without 'em. Was M'Tara stupid to keep gating back? Well, yeah. But maybe shutting down those junctions was doing more damage than we knew and she had no choice but to try to stop us.
Regarding the "Us VS. Them" debate, it's not like she decided it was a good time to open negotiations... she kept trying to kill us despite her increasing weakness. Maybe it says something about the Iconians that they'd rather die than admit they aren't so superior after all.
The plot and motivations have all kinds of issues that we can debate about. I grant that. But I never felt that there weren't somewhat plausible explanations or that the progression of the plot was unforgivably illogical or nonsensical. It was playable for me. Certainly not the best mission to ever come out of STO but hardly the worst.
I wouldn't feel bad about giving it 2.5 out of 5. Maybe even a 3. If I have any criticism, it's that the war blog entries are better written than the actual missions. I hope future missions are far less reliant on blog entries to fill out the plot.
Oh, what the heck.. One more criticism. I'm very tired of hearing about the 'broken unity' of the Iconians. I do not think those words mean what the writer is trying to make them mean. The Iconians seem unified enough to me at this point. Maybe they won't seem so unified in a future FE, but it sure looks like they all want to kill us now.
But is it political of physical unification they're after? The later is how I've been reading it and it does make the current plot less arbitrarily messy.
This is Star Trek after all, you can't assume that non-corporeal space demons trying to form a collective or continuum of some sort is completely out of the question.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
The location is actually in the Delta Quadrant if you beam up and have to continue later.
This is doable for a level 60 and I did this. Not doable for a level 10.
(ground)1 room before you get the 4 consoles, if you put mines on the ground and she spawn on the mines you can't activate console 2.
Did you put mines on the ground before she spawned and then did she spawned on the mines ???
Don't quote me out of context.
I actually think the bug ties into the order you activate the consoles in. I could be wrong about that but I THINK it's either caused because of a broken link when you activate them in the wrong order or something that pushes one of the reinforcement enemies through the floor/wall, blocking the next step from opening up.
Keep calm, and continue firing photon torpedoes.