"What we knew ... is gone.
Our home, our lives, all that we were ... Dust!
Blasted across empty, heartless skies...
"But we live! Our legacy lives!
Within every ship we fly, upon every world we touch!
In our hearts, in yours!
"There will be challenge, you will know fear!
But you will overcome! You will survive!
And answer vengeance with blood!
"You will do as you must!
Rule cannot be handed to the faithless!
Our legacy cannot be lost to villains!
Bury the past to face the future!
In enemies, find allies!
"There is no price we have not paid!
No loss we have not felt!
Our dead world!
Our long suffering!
"These are not ends!
We are not ended!
For your crew, for your people, for this new home!
"We must face all doubt!
We must break the strong who would destroy us!
We must overcome the impossible!
We must fight, against any, and all!
I'm pretty sure alternate timelines aren't "erased" if new ones are created. Else the STO timeline wouldn't exist.
I didn't think of that. I guess since the alternate reality is more along the lines of a parallel universe than a Year of Hell-style alternate timeline, it would remain the same.
I suppose, though that might mean that the Year of Hell timeline still exists out there, and after its resolution in the episode, it merely created yet another timeline branch where everything is A-okay.
All of this is effectively subjective though, as it's fictional. But the idea of parallel universes keeps everything consistent with every "canon" while keeping the idea that all of them exist in one mega-continuity open is possible. And IMO, it's quite elegant in a way.
If Annorax (or someone else) erased the remnants of a device that cause a supernova, then using the above explanation, the supernova wouldn't have happened, and Romulus would still be here.
And a LOT of other things would be completely screwed up.
Annorax's timeship is a weapon far too dangerous to use.
If it's used at all, it would most likey be on very minor, recently existing things, the minute you try and use something like that recklessly you destroy yourself.
The RSE was always evil, that was never in question. The Romulan people at large were not evil, but their leaders were real galactic jerks.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I could see this being a Featured Episode but I do not think they would change everything because of it. If we simply removed Iconians from the time stream like Annarex did to so many species, this would be one of the changes that happened.
...Did you watch what happened through the rest of those episodes? You can't stop at just one because no single change is going to result in a totally agreeable universe. Remove the Iconians and something else will be "wrong" with it all. Remove that, and hey as it turns out another threat was merely waiting to exploit an open opportunity. Eventually you'll work your way down the list to yourself and that sets everything back to the way it was.
I think its the one common feature of the institutionalized temporal manipulation story (see. Isaac Asimov's End of Eternity) that it ultimately cancels itself out (because its an inherently unstable system.) If Cryptic is going to give us another year of hell, you can bet that we're going to end where we started.
This is a major problem I have with how the story looks to be moving. It was impossible for Annarex to predit all possible impacts of removing a single species when he was using the device. It would be even more impossible to predict what would happen if you removed the Iconians, a race that has been around for a really *long* time and hs had it's hand influencing nearly everything in the galaxy. Butterfly effect times a million and thus far too risky to simply make the iconians not exsist anymore.
This is a major problem I have with how the story looks to be moving. It was impossible for Annarex to predit all possible impacts of removing a single species when he was using the device. It would be even more impossible to predict what would happen if you removed the Iconians, a race that has been around for a really *long* time and hs had it's hand influencing nearly everything in the galaxy. Butterfly effect times a million and thus far too risky to simply make the iconians not exsist anymore.
That's why I hope there's a twist coming or that we are going to engage in temporal brinksmanship with the Iconians a la Cuban Missile Crisis until they back down. It MIGHT--read MIGHT--be usable as a "Mutual Assured Destruction" sort of deterrent. Still, even that is ethically problematic, so what I am wondering is if there'll be a chance to do something else with that ship.
We know that another effect of the temporal core is to render the ship immune to conventional weapons damage while the core is active...meaning theoretically, one could build the ship and the core without the weapon, and even that would be a tactical advantage. It would be limited like a Klingon cloaking device in that you have to essentially decloak to fire conventional weapons (at least, that's what I gathered when I watched "Year of Hell" last night), and you are a serious glass cannon when you do, but there might be a way to rework that tech based on Annorax's work to reduce the tradeoff between temporal shielding and hull strength. (Also, the speed of the ship needs to be increased...the original topped out at Warp 6.)
A purely defensive application of the temporal core could turn the war in a manner that wouldn't cost the Allies their souls, so to speak.
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Here are the reasons:
1. Licensed materials, like STO, are mandated to follow the canon. Although yes, "Hobus" was not mentioned canonically, but the supernova that destroyed Remus and Romulus is canon because it was shown in Star Trek 11.
2. By changing the past, the game should change as well. I highly doubt Cryptic will go to all the trouble to change everything -- missions, dialogues, texts, voice overs, and what not. I for one would rather see them put their team developing new stories, not undoing the past, just because [put-your-reasons-here]. And changing something in the past will ripple throughout time. Noticed how our futureselves only traveled for a very few minutes only to give the temporal tesseract? That's how dangerous time travel is. If our futureself did something else outside of what s/he was told, it could unravel future-history.
3. Well, combine the two above.
That time warship can change timelines. Yes, that's true. But as shown in Voyager, if you change something major, it changes everything. When Voyager entered their space, they didn't know there was a new element, a major element at that. So when they triggered it, all their calculations went haywire. And that's just Voyager showing at the wrong place at the wrong time.
And again, #1 reason, they're locked with their license agreement with CBS. Canon stuff stays. Notice how Cryptic is only touching those canon stuff that were left vague? Because they can only build upon those. For example, the Preservers and the Iconians. We have Species 8472 too, in STO they're called the "Undine", and so on.
Lastly, I don't want the RSE to come back. In fact, I'm waiting for Litverse/Relaunch timeline branch to get rid of them as well. But this branch of the timeline has not yet reached the supernova incident, which they'll be forced to acknowledge because Pocket Book's license with CBS says so (#1 reason above). Yes, even in Litverse/Relaunch, Romulus and Remus will blow up, which could spell the end of RSE (though the Litverse/Relaunch authors can find a way to make the RSE intact, without Romulus and Remus).
Oh...and I thought of another trick you could do with Annorax's ship that wouldn't involve any permanent damage to the timestream: we saw in "Year of Hell" that its transporter works even with the temporal core active and the ship displaced from the normal time stream. Any Iconian beamed aboard will lose her mind. My thought there is to do that to one (and remember that while displaced, the ship is totally immune to conventional weapons fire), and force the Iconians to the negotiating table that way. (However, this is a lot more effective if the insanity effect reverses after being repatriated to the time stream...otherwise you may just have a lot of Iconians and Heralds with a worse grudge than before.)
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
The more and more Time Travel or Time-Altering-Whatever-Gimmick you do, the more stupid things can become.
I know the Alliance has their backs to the wall against the Iconian threat but it's going to give the the Krenim the tool they need to carve out their Empire again. Not to mention, Temporal Warships are about to be let loose from Pandora's Box for everyone.
This technology is far more dangerous and it makes the Genesis Device look like a party favor for kids.
Just add "temporal" to what comes next and there you go. :P
Ah, another temporal war. It's possible. I very much want to see that.
In fact, Cryptic can play with Temporal (Cold) War plots. The thing with TCW/TW there are two ways to look at it and both are valid.
1. When you have time travel technology, time becomes non-linear. In a temporal (cold) war, all time becomes the "present". So, in ENT, we've seen how the TCW/TW "ended" and prevented the (cold) war from beginning in the first place. Sounds like it was "retconned" or "never existed" or "never happened" because of that. But here's the thing, it still _did_ happen. How?
2. First, thanks to Christopher Bennett for explaining this. Time is still linear. In TCW/TW, every time-incursions they did, it was only another "front" in the war. Time still flows forward no matter what. So while in ENT the TCW/TW "ended" and never started, because time is moving forward, we will still see reach the years when these time-incursions occurred - because it still happened.
If by 2411 we see major time-incursions from the TCW/TW, even though in ENT it already "ended" and "never started in the first place", since there were time-incursions, we will still experience it.
So, was it erased? Nope, not at all. Time recorded the TCW/TW. There is no grandfather paradox. It happened yet at the same time it did not.
How can Cryptic use it? There were TCW/TW fronts in the Delta Quadrant that were not revealed in ENT. Imagine that. Add to the fact that our Delta futureselves used time-travel, I highly doubt the temporal factions were not aware of it. If not, the Federation of the future surely is aware, especially the 31st Century Federation (Daniel's faction).
Now imagine the effects of Krenim technology do to TCW/TW. In STO's timeline branch, the Alpha-Beta Alliance is in the Delta Quadrant and involved in Krenim's attempt to return. Surely, the Temporal factions are aware of it and wants a piece of it as well.
Or for all we know, the future temporal tech these factions are using were all based on Anorax's timeship. Ha, now that makes sense.
Oh...and I thought of another trick you could do with Annorax's ship that wouldn't involve any permanent damage to the timestream: we saw in "Year of Hell" that its transporter works even with the temporal core active and the ship displaced from the normal time stream. Any Iconian beamed aboard will lose her mind. My thought there is to do that to one (and remember that while displaced, the ship is totally immune to conventional weapons fire), and force the Iconians to the negotiating table that way. (However, this is a lot more effective if the insanity effect reverses after being repatriated to the time stream...otherwise you may just have a lot of Iconians and Heralds with a worse grudge than before.)
Yep, it might work. And the Iconians will finally realize we have a huge advantage over them. We can use time to our advantage and they cannot.
Though, if you think about it, we survived the Iconians, because Daniel's 31st Century Temporal faction showed in ENT episodes And STO's branch of history split after ST:Nemesis. So anything on and before Nemesis is our history as well.
Yeah, so anyone that has played the new "Time in a Bottle" feature episode will have concluded by now that the Time Ship built by Anorax in ST:Voyager is soon to be constructed again. Whilst we know that ship can't travel through time (so much as it takes events sideways) there's no reason now that someone from the Republic couldn't use one of those ships to sidestep around the events that killed all of those Romulans (and Remans).
Now we get to Save Romulus, there's no reason we can't get the Star Empire as a Faction.
PS: Someone screwed up in the writing department, cause I bet there's no agreeable reason not to do this [even though I know it'll come to nothing just because]
It seems to me the OP simply wants cryptic to dump the Romulan faction we have now so he can play the true Romulan faction that players would rather play as.
At this point, I don't see that happening. Maybe for a one time episode thing, but not full time.
It seems to me the OP simply wants cryptic to dump the Romulan faction we have now so he can play the true Romulan faction that players would rather play as.
At this point, I don't see that happening. Maybe for a one time episode thing, but not full time.
Yep, an episode will do. Sort of like the effects of Temporal incursions.
It seems to me the OP simply wants cryptic to dump the Romulan faction we have now so he can play the true Romulan faction that players would rather play as.
At this point, I don't see that happening. Maybe for a one time episode thing, but not full time.
to dump a romulan faction we'd first need to have one... we have a fraction of a faction... but we're still waiting for the full faction...
Haven't read through the thread completely, but as the destruction of Romulus is part of hard-canon, I don't see this happening except as a quickly-corrected Temporal Ambassador-style mission. It can't be left as the "prime" timeline, because that would erase the alternate reality, and I don't think PWE/Cryptic has authorization to do that.
That's the first post I saw (I also didn't read the entire thread) that mentions the IRL implications of such a story arc within STO. The reboot movies/alternate timeline ("JJTrek" for the haters, not me BTW) would be completely undone by the Hobus supernova never happening and I agree that a licensee like PWE/Cryptic probably doesn't have authority to alter "canon" in such a way.
This was the first conclusion I drew from this theory, though technically I have to agree with the OP that it is a viable story arc due to the vast universe-changing implications of Krenim temporal technology. The STO writers are going to have to scramble to avoid that minefield (if they haven't already brainstormed around it).
Seriously, what couldn't be changed? Stop the Hobus supernova? Somehow avoid the Enterprise-D from encountering the Borg (gotta mess with Q for that one)? Avoid the Dominion War? Avoid Voyager's disappearance (and, hence, the Undine contact)? A huge selection of retcon story arcs...and, judging from the "Year of Hell", the chance that someone could actually make things worse.
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ovrkyl--That's kind of why my recommendation were I actually able to write the storyline would be to recommend that the Alliance build the weapon ship without the weapon, but WITH the temporal core for as a defensive measure, and WITH the transporter that was demonstrated to work while the ship was operating outside the time stream, and also with enhancements to the hull and warp drive. Additionally, adding the temporal core as a defensive measure to Alliance vessels should be investigated.
My suspicion is when we take this back to the Alliance, we realize the sickening implications of what Annorax's weapon does, and that we exploit only the technologies that we can use in at least a somewhat ethical manner.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
ovrkyl--That's kind of why my recommendation were I actually able to write the storyline would be to recommend that the Alliance build the weapon ship without the weapon, but WITH the temporal core for as a defensive measure, and WITH the transporter that was demonstrated to work while the ship was operating outside the time stream, and also with enhancements to the hull and warp drive. Additionally, adding the temporal core as a defensive measure to Alliance vessels should be investigated.
My suspicion is when we take this back to the Alliance, we realize the sickening implications of what Annorax's weapon does, and that we exploit only the technologies that we can use in at least a somewhat ethical manner.
Ah, but what would Section 31 do with this ship (and you know Drake would rust the hull with his drool)? Take the Krenim ship to Bepi 113 and slingshot it wherever and whenever they want, then alter any event in history. I can just hear the Temporal Investigations agents' wailing and gnashing of teeth from here.
The far-reaching story implications are quite intense.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
ovrkyl--That's kind of why my recommendation were I actually able to write the storyline would be to recommend that the Alliance build the weapon ship without the weapon, but WITH the temporal core for as a defensive measure, and WITH the transporter that was demonstrated to work while the ship was operating outside the time stream, and also with enhancements to the hull and warp drive. Additionally, adding the temporal core as a defensive measure to Alliance vessels should be investigated.
My suspicion is when we take this back to the Alliance, we realize the sickening implications of what Annorax's weapon does, and that we exploit only the technologies that we can use in at least a somewhat ethical manner.
Ah, but what would Section 31 do with this ship (and you know Drake would rust the hull with his drool)? Take the Krenim ship to Bepi 113 and slingshot it wherever and whenever they want, then alter any event in history. I can just hear the Temporal Investigations agents' wailing and gnashing of teeth from here.
The far-reaching story implications are quite intense.
If I were given the option, I would destroy the part of the blueprint that covers how to build the weapon part of the ship before even disseminating the plans to the rest of the Alliance.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
If I were given the option, I would destroy the part of the blueprint that covers how to build the weapon part of the ship before even disseminating the plans to the rest of the Alliance.
...while making sure to be looking over your shoulder for Drake? LOL
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
If I were given the option, I would destroy the part of the blueprint that covers how to build the weapon part of the ship before even disseminating the plans to the rest of the Alliance.
...while making sure to be looking over your shoulder for Drake? LOL
That's right, just give Alyosha an excuse to shoot Drake. He's already furious at Drake for sending him back in time to face his own species (note that Alyosha is entirely Earth-raised and takes artificial sustenance instead of hunting), which led to the Devidians getting a REALLY nasty personal grudge, hitching a ride on his ship back to the 25th century, and attacking his crew there. And of course since Drake's little Borg temporal device forced the ship back before Alyosha had a chance to do a security sweep to prevent said incident...yeah, he's mad.
Oh, and add to that deliberately endangering his crew with a holoemitter guaranteed to p*ss off every Klingon not belonging to one of the most disgraced Houses in Klingon history.
Yeah, just give Alyosha the excuse to off Drake. He'd be happy to take that problem off everyone's hands if he thought he could get away with it.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
If I were given the option, I would destroy the part of the blueprint that covers how to build the weapon part of the ship before even disseminating the plans to the rest of the Alliance.
...while making sure to be looking over your shoulder for Drake? LOL
That's right, just give Alyosha an excuse to shoot Drake. He's already furious at Drake for sending him back in time to face his own species (note that Alyosha is entirely Earth-raised and takes artificial sustenance instead of hunting), which led to the Devidians getting a REALLY nasty personal grudge, hitching a ride on his ship back to the 25th century, and attacking his crew there. And of course since Drake's little Borg temporal device forced the ship back before Alyosha had a chance to do a security sweep to prevent said incident...yeah, he's mad.
Oh, and add to that deliberately endangering his crew with a holoemitter guaranteed to p*ss off every Klingon not belonging to one of the most disgraced Houses in Klingon history.
Yeah, just give Alyosha the excuse to off Drake. He'd be happy to take that problem off everyone's hands if he thought he could get away with it.
None of my characters actually hate section 31 itself, although the ones who have been contacted often get a really bad "vibe" but drake? he's just bad.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
It seems to me the OP simply wants cryptic to dump the Romulan faction we have now so he can play the true Romulan faction that players would rather play as.
Romulan Republic already exists.
Speak for yourself, but I'd prefer a Republic Romulan over an Imperial one anyday. I'd have no interest in an Imperial Romulan.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
You can pretty sure we'll get a story mission (or series of such missions) where we (the player-character 'hero') make such changes (IE stop the destruction of Iconia 200K years ago; save Romulus, etc.); but like has been mentioned by many we find the changes make things WORSE then they are 'now' in STO; so we abandon further attempts along those lines; and in the end, the ship somehow assists the Iconians in becoming 'Whole' and merging back with 'The Other' - thus ending the conflict (while retaining the story events of the last 5 years in STO); and allowing the Devs to begin their next STO storyline.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Haven't read through the thread completely, but as the destruction of Romulus is part of hard-canon, I don't see this happening except as a quickly-corrected Temporal Ambassador-style mission. It can't be left as the "prime" timeline, because that would erase the alternate reality, and I don't think PWE/Cryptic has authorization to do that.
That's the first post I saw (I also didn't read the entire thread) that mentions the IRL implications of such a story arc within STO. The reboot movies/alternate timeline ("JJTrek" for the haters, not me BTW) would be completely undone by the Hobus supernova never happening and I agree that a licensee like PWE/Cryptic probably doesn't have authority to alter "canon" in such a way.
This was the first conclusion I drew from this theory, though technically I have to agree with the OP that it is a viable story arc due to the vast universe-changing implications of Krenim temporal technology. The STO writers are going to have to scramble to avoid that minefield (if they haven't already brainstormed around it).
Seriously, what couldn't be changed? Stop the Hobus supernova? Somehow avoid the Enterprise-D from encountering the Borg (gotta mess with Q for that one)? Avoid the Dominion War? Avoid Voyager's disappearance (and, hence, the Undine contact)? A huge selection of retcon story arcs...and, judging from the "Year of Hell", the chance that someone could actually make things worse.
I understand that. Don't get me wrong, I like to have a different story myself. But as much as it is enjoyable to see where it can take us and to suggest, I believe our suggestions should be within the limit of their license agreement with CBS, and we all know how CBS (and Paramount for that matter) holds their franchises with an iron grip.
As I can see some great suggestions that will come up from this thread, I think it's best that we remember that license restriction that anything established in the canon materials are untouchable. We can only build upon those, especially those vague ones or have been forgotten, or only mentioned in passing.
True, this timeship can change a lot of things, even countless of timelines. But if what Voyager did never occurred in the new timeline, then we're no longer "Star Trek". I wouldn't mind that, I *love* time travel stories, you have no idea. But sadly, STO is bound by the license CBS granted to them.
So I'd say, let's get those suggestions running within the boundaries CBS gave. More challenging yes, but that's how great ideas begin, we find ways around obstacles
I could see this being a Featured Episode but I do not think they would change everything because of it. If we simply removed Iconians from the time stream like Annarex did to so many species, this would be one of the changes that happened.
I suspect they'll discover the same problems Annarex did in trying to restore the Krenim Empire and his wife at the same time. It'll never come out right.
So Star Fleet will do the simulation like Annarex's crew ran and realize it will cause more problems than it fixes using the ship.
They will create it, or some form of it, use it, and it will result in terrible, horrible bad things. However, due to the questionable level of Cryptic's capabilities to portray seriousness of a situation (see: Iconian War yet no actual Pressure from them; none of them invading queues as surprise enemies, none of them surprise-replacing your Borg/Tholian Red Alerts, none of them TRIBBLE up your Deep Space Encounters, etc), it's not likely to be anything worse than some static scenes and readable dialogue.
You're not likely to pull a Marty McFly and start disappearing because your actions resulted in your existence fading out. You'll just TRIBBLE something up, probably result in a new Terran Empire using Borg Adapted ships or some Eldritch Horror that now seeks to stop you and maybe Nog from restoring the timeline, then work against time and your new enemies to undo your stupidity.
Personally, it would be great if Cryptic was able to rip the Soviet opening of RA3 (Link) and give it an STO twist (it even has Takei!). Complete with a full cinematic cutscene that shows and teases this new alternate reality.
Player: We now have NEW mortal enemies? Nog: We must contact the Alliance! Stop them all! Random BOFF: Excuse me, Sir? What Alliance? (a subtle hint that the alterations is starting to affect your crew) Nog: The Alliance? Formed from the Federation, KDF, and Romulan Republic! Player: Don’t you understand, without the Iconians there is no Alliance, because we have altered the space-time continuum. Oh, who knows what nightmares we have created.
result in a new Terran Empire using Borg Adapted ships
you say this like it wouldn't be the most awesome thing to happen to STO in ages...
I say it like it will be the worst tease possible (if it isn't straight up some other Eldritch Horror race), because you can be sure that Cryptic will hedge on ever releasing it (like they refuse to release Mirror Skins as C-Store Ship vanity items for the ships that don't have a Mirror Box ship, even if it's already coded and made; like the Odyssey Terran skin from the MU queue, or the Faeht Mirror skin that was available for months after its release until it was replaced by Romulan Brown).
I want a spindly Odyssey, a spindly Typhoon, a squid-like Constellation Assault Cruiser, a spidery escort, and so forth; all looking like Terran Lovecraftian Horrors that would give even KDF captains nightmares. And probably have the enslaved crews of a thousand races manning them, unable to die, unable to hide in their minds, unable to escape the Terran enslavement via reverse-engineered Borg tech. Forced to witness and feel every action their own bodies did.
Now that I think about it, Terrans with a mastery of Borg tech would reasonably fit as low level Lovecraftian Horrors.
Comments
"What we knew ... is gone.
Our home, our lives, all that we were ... Dust!
Blasted across empty, heartless skies...
"But we live! Our legacy lives!
Within every ship we fly, upon every world we touch!
In our hearts, in yours!
"There will be challenge, you will know fear!
But you will overcome! You will survive!
And answer vengeance with blood!
"You will do as you must!
Rule cannot be handed to the faithless!
Our legacy cannot be lost to villains!
Bury the past to face the future!
In enemies, find allies!
"There is no price we have not paid!
No loss we have not felt!
Our dead world!
Our long suffering!
"These are not ends!
We are not ended!
For your crew, for your people, for this new home!
"We must face all doubt!
We must break the strong who would destroy us!
We must overcome the impossible!
We must fight, against any, and all!
"We must, we will!
For
WE ... ARE ... ROMULAN!"
-- Temer, Riov s'Kreh'dhhokh Rihanai
--Red Annorax
All of this is effectively subjective though, as it's fictional. But the idea of parallel universes keeps everything consistent with every "canon" while keeping the idea that all of them exist in one mega-continuity open is possible. And IMO, it's quite elegant in a way.
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And a LOT of other things would be completely screwed up.
Annorax's timeship is a weapon far too dangerous to use.
If it's used at all, it would most likey be on very minor, recently existing things, the minute you try and use something like that recklessly you destroy yourself.
The RSE was always evil, that was never in question. The Romulan people at large were not evil, but their leaders were real galactic jerks.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I'm so so sorry, but there is nothing that we can do to make it so JJ Abrams Fake Trek never was.
Member since December 2009
This is a major problem I have with how the story looks to be moving. It was impossible for Annarex to predit all possible impacts of removing a single species when he was using the device. It would be even more impossible to predict what would happen if you removed the Iconians, a race that has been around for a really *long* time and hs had it's hand influencing nearly everything in the galaxy. Butterfly effect times a million and thus far too risky to simply make the iconians not exsist anymore.
That's why I hope there's a twist coming or that we are going to engage in temporal brinksmanship with the Iconians a la Cuban Missile Crisis until they back down. It MIGHT--read MIGHT--be usable as a "Mutual Assured Destruction" sort of deterrent. Still, even that is ethically problematic, so what I am wondering is if there'll be a chance to do something else with that ship.
We know that another effect of the temporal core is to render the ship immune to conventional weapons damage while the core is active...meaning theoretically, one could build the ship and the core without the weapon, and even that would be a tactical advantage. It would be limited like a Klingon cloaking device in that you have to essentially decloak to fire conventional weapons (at least, that's what I gathered when I watched "Year of Hell" last night), and you are a serious glass cannon when you do, but there might be a way to rework that tech based on Annorax's work to reduce the tradeoff between temporal shielding and hull strength. (Also, the speed of the ship needs to be increased...the original topped out at Warp 6.)
A purely defensive application of the temporal core could turn the war in a manner that wouldn't cost the Allies their souls, so to speak.
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Here are the reasons:
1. Licensed materials, like STO, are mandated to follow the canon. Although yes, "Hobus" was not mentioned canonically, but the supernova that destroyed Remus and Romulus is canon because it was shown in Star Trek 11.
2. By changing the past, the game should change as well. I highly doubt Cryptic will go to all the trouble to change everything -- missions, dialogues, texts, voice overs, and what not. I for one would rather see them put their team developing new stories, not undoing the past, just because [put-your-reasons-here]. And changing something in the past will ripple throughout time. Noticed how our futureselves only traveled for a very few minutes only to give the temporal tesseract? That's how dangerous time travel is. If our futureself did something else outside of what s/he was told, it could unravel future-history.
3. Well, combine the two above.
That time warship can change timelines. Yes, that's true. But as shown in Voyager, if you change something major, it changes everything. When Voyager entered their space, they didn't know there was a new element, a major element at that. So when they triggered it, all their calculations went haywire. And that's just Voyager showing at the wrong place at the wrong time.
And again, #1 reason, they're locked with their license agreement with CBS. Canon stuff stays. Notice how Cryptic is only touching those canon stuff that were left vague? Because they can only build upon those. For example, the Preservers and the Iconians. We have Species 8472 too, in STO they're called the "Undine", and so on.
Lastly, I don't want the RSE to come back. In fact, I'm waiting for Litverse/Relaunch timeline branch to get rid of them as well. But this branch of the timeline has not yet reached the supernova incident, which they'll be forced to acknowledge because Pocket Book's license with CBS says so (#1 reason above). Yes, even in Litverse/Relaunch, Romulus and Remus will blow up, which could spell the end of RSE (though the Litverse/Relaunch authors can find a way to make the RSE intact, without Romulus and Remus).
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Ah, another temporal war. It's possible. I very much want to see that.
In fact, Cryptic can play with Temporal (Cold) War plots. The thing with TCW/TW there are two ways to look at it and both are valid.
1. When you have time travel technology, time becomes non-linear. In a temporal (cold) war, all time becomes the "present". So, in ENT, we've seen how the TCW/TW "ended" and prevented the (cold) war from beginning in the first place. Sounds like it was "retconned" or "never existed" or "never happened" because of that. But here's the thing, it still _did_ happen. How?
2. First, thanks to Christopher Bennett for explaining this. Time is still linear. In TCW/TW, every time-incursions they did, it was only another "front" in the war. Time still flows forward no matter what. So while in ENT the TCW/TW "ended" and never started, because time is moving forward, we will still see reach the years when these time-incursions occurred - because it still happened.
If by 2411 we see major time-incursions from the TCW/TW, even though in ENT it already "ended" and "never started in the first place", since there were time-incursions, we will still experience it.
So, was it erased? Nope, not at all. Time recorded the TCW/TW. There is no grandfather paradox. It happened yet at the same time it did not.
How can Cryptic use it? There were TCW/TW fronts in the Delta Quadrant that were not revealed in ENT. Imagine that. Add to the fact that our Delta futureselves used time-travel, I highly doubt the temporal factions were not aware of it. If not, the Federation of the future surely is aware, especially the 31st Century Federation (Daniel's faction).
Now imagine the effects of Krenim technology do to TCW/TW. In STO's timeline branch, the Alpha-Beta Alliance is in the Delta Quadrant and involved in Krenim's attempt to return. Surely, the Temporal factions are aware of it and wants a piece of it as well.
Or for all we know, the future temporal tech these factions are using were all based on Anorax's timeship. Ha, now that makes sense.
2411, a new front to the TCW/TW opens?
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"Someone should do a story where a Horta meets a Vorta. And then they find a portal to Vorta-Vor and become immortal. Sorta." ~Christopher L. Bennett
Yep, it might work. And the Iconians will finally realize we have a huge advantage over them. We can use time to our advantage and they cannot.
Though, if you think about it, we survived the Iconians, because Daniel's 31st Century Temporal faction showed in ENT episodes
[ Blog: YOOki Chronicles ]
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"Someone should do a story where a Horta meets a Vorta. And then they find a portal to Vorta-Vor and become immortal. Sorta." ~Christopher L. Bennett
4 words: Fixed. Point. In. Time.
Good, I'm not the only one who thinks this of the OP.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
At this point, I don't see that happening. Maybe for a one time episode thing, but not full time.
Yep, an episode will do. Sort of like the effects of Temporal incursions.
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"Someone should do a story where a Horta meets a Vorta. And then they find a portal to Vorta-Vor and become immortal. Sorta." ~Christopher L. Bennett
to dump a romulan faction we'd first need to have one... we have a fraction of a faction... but we're still waiting for the full faction...
This was the first conclusion I drew from this theory, though technically I have to agree with the OP that it is a viable story arc due to the vast universe-changing implications of Krenim temporal technology. The STO writers are going to have to scramble to avoid that minefield (if they haven't already brainstormed around it).
Seriously, what couldn't be changed? Stop the Hobus supernova? Somehow avoid the Enterprise-D from encountering the Borg (gotta mess with Q for that one)? Avoid the Dominion War? Avoid Voyager's disappearance (and, hence, the Undine contact)? A huge selection of retcon story arcs...and, judging from the "Year of Hell", the chance that someone could actually make things worse.
My suspicion is when we take this back to the Alliance, we realize the sickening implications of what Annorax's weapon does, and that we exploit only the technologies that we can use in at least a somewhat ethical manner.
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The far-reaching story implications are quite intense.
If I were given the option, I would destroy the part of the blueprint that covers how to build the weapon part of the ship before even disseminating the plans to the rest of the Alliance.
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That's right, just give Alyosha an excuse to shoot Drake. He's already furious at Drake for sending him back in time to face his own species (note that Alyosha is entirely Earth-raised and takes artificial sustenance instead of hunting), which led to the Devidians getting a REALLY nasty personal grudge, hitching a ride on his ship back to the 25th century, and attacking his crew there. And of course since Drake's little Borg temporal device forced the ship back before Alyosha had a chance to do a security sweep to prevent said incident...yeah, he's mad.
Oh, and add to that deliberately endangering his crew with a holoemitter guaranteed to p*ss off every Klingon not belonging to one of the most disgraced Houses in Klingon history.
Yeah, just give Alyosha the excuse to off Drake. He'd be happy to take that problem off everyone's hands if he thought he could get away with it.
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None of my characters actually hate section 31 itself, although the ones who have been contacted often get a really bad "vibe" but drake? he's just bad.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Romulan Republic already exists.
Speak for yourself, but I'd prefer a Republic Romulan over an Imperial one anyday. I'd have no interest in an Imperial Romulan.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
I understand that. Don't get me wrong, I like to have a different story myself. But as much as it is enjoyable to see where it can take us and to suggest, I believe our suggestions should be within the limit of their license agreement with CBS, and we all know how CBS (and Paramount for that matter) holds their franchises with an iron grip.
As I can see some great suggestions that will come up from this thread, I think it's best that we remember that license restriction that anything established in the canon materials are untouchable. We can only build upon those, especially those vague ones or have been forgotten, or only mentioned in passing.
True, this timeship can change a lot of things, even countless of timelines. But if what Voyager did never occurred in the new timeline, then we're no longer "Star Trek". I wouldn't mind that, I *love* time travel stories, you have no idea. But sadly, STO is bound by the license CBS granted to them.
So I'd say, let's get those suggestions running within the boundaries CBS gave. More challenging yes, but that's how great ideas begin, we find ways around obstacles
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"Someone should do a story where a Horta meets a Vorta. And then they find a portal to Vorta-Vor and become immortal. Sorta." ~Christopher L. Bennett
I suspect they'll discover the same problems Annarex did in trying to restore the Krenim Empire and his wife at the same time. It'll never come out right.
So Star Fleet will do the simulation like Annarex's crew ran and realize it will cause more problems than it fixes using the ship.
You're not likely to pull a Marty McFly and start disappearing because your actions resulted in your existence fading out. You'll just TRIBBLE something up, probably result in a new Terran Empire using Borg Adapted ships or some Eldritch Horror that now seeks to stop you and maybe Nog from restoring the timeline, then work against time and your new enemies to undo your stupidity.
Personally, it would be great if Cryptic was able to rip the Soviet opening of RA3 (Link) and give it an STO twist (it even has Takei!). Complete with a full cinematic cutscene that shows and teases this new alternate reality.
Player: We now have NEW mortal enemies?
Nog: We must contact the Alliance! Stop them all!
Random BOFF: Excuse me, Sir? What Alliance? (a subtle hint that the alterations is starting to affect your crew)
Nog: The Alliance? Formed from the Federation, KDF, and Romulan Republic!
Player: Don’t you understand, without the Iconians there is no Alliance, because we have altered the space-time continuum. Oh, who knows what nightmares we have created.
you say this like it wouldn't be the most awesome thing to happen to STO in ages...
I want a spindly Odyssey, a spindly Typhoon, a squid-like Constellation Assault Cruiser, a spidery escort, and so forth; all looking like Terran Lovecraftian Horrors that would give even KDF captains nightmares. And probably have the enslaved crews of a thousand races manning them, unable to die, unable to hide in their minds, unable to escape the Terran enslavement via reverse-engineered Borg tech. Forced to witness and feel every action their own bodies did.
Now that I think about it, Terrans with a mastery of Borg tech would reasonably fit as low level Lovecraftian Horrors.