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Wait, Are the Krenim dead??
lessley00
Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
Seriously?? The Vaadwaur wiped out the Imperium? In my head-canon the Krenim got their asses handed to them like the Reapers did to the Humans in Mass Effect (I know, wrong franchise...). Then they managed to work with the Delta Alliance and the Voth, got their homeworld back and then were there when we landed the final punch. So now I hear the Imperium is dead? That really kind of sucks...
Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
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And in the proper timeline, the Krenim never developed the devastating technology that allowed them to create their temporal dreadnought.
Thus, they probably stood little chance against the empowered Vaadwaur, who could give even the Voth and the Borg a run for their money.
*Obligatory Time Travel One-Liner*
however there were episodes of time travel by other groups, now one of these other groups may go back in time to the krenim from say 10 years earlier before they got wiped out, but desperate enough for a hopeful situation. these people could of ended up like the vaadwuar, locked up in stasis pods, but more than enough with a viable genetic base to support a whole new colony for the future, hidden away with the help of these agents. now there is nothing to say that type of thing can not happen and is just waiting to be found when enough "anonymous" hints were dropped.
the krenim are dead now, but there is nothing to say they are completely extinct even if they are :P.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I think there is a few survivors here and there. Hope a new story arc will tell more.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
So in other words, the Krenim species is still around and viable, but the Krenim government is defunct. Rather like the Romulan Star Empire. *flips the bird at the Tal'Shiar fanbois*
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
We'll just march under it.
[/SIGPIC]
Well, they only encountered them once and unlike the other timelines, they werent hostile nor aggressive. Pretty much the same kind how a normal Starfleet Ship would appear to another species (though starfleet would be more friendly and would do more talking). Nothing to imply it being a weak or small empire.
They at least at the fundamental tech and scientific aptitude to make calculations about the timeline-dreadnought, which implies a very high level of tech and understanding in those parts.
That they were the first target, one the Iconians chose, makes it more than obvious that they had the best means to defeat -or at least be a more major hindrance than the alliance- to the iconians.
Sela said the Iconians cant travel time. We know that the Krenim at least had some knowledge about time travel and time distortions. It wouldnt be unsurprising if they had at least chroniton torpedos (the real ones, not the BS we have in the game), and that the radiation of those would be very harmfull to the Iconians and most likely the Heralds (as they feature similarities in their biological make-up).
The best choice of action in this case would be an all-out surprise attack, crippling the enemy before it can reform itself no matter the cost. Exactly what the Iconians did via the Vaadwaur. And for the Krenim there was most likely no link between the Iconians and the Vaadwaur.
P.S.: My guess for the artifact the ferengi acquired is a machine (or part of it) that works similar like the Mannheim center and the USS Premonitions special attack from Armada, generating a temporal field of large magnitude (far larger than the ones from 3pc-temporal warfare and 2pc-Moebius), distorting time and space and damaging or destroying the Iconians brains.
If it works similar like the Dakara-device from Stargate it could easily wipe out all Iconians. They are most likely all near a gate, independend wether its in Milky way or Andromeda. And if memory serves right, we already have ships capable of hacking into a single Gateway. Add a worm and we could generate something like the Baal-upgraded Dakara-Device.
Your right that was after the Year of Hell timeline was fixed. I looked it up again on Memory Alpha. I was going by the start of the Year of Hell which was an alternate time line. There it was told they was a small group after long years of fighting.
So this version, it would be hard to tell. Going by what the Delta Rising put it. They could be a small group now? After showing they lost a good bit to the Vaadwaur. Only a good story arc will tell what happened and what is to come.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Otherwise, this would mean the Vaadwaur committed mass genocide, and that isn't a very happy thought.
And this is where the thread was won.
As for the subject, I still have a hard time believing that the Krenim were completely annihilated ingame. Technology question aside, the galaxy map the Developers themselves used shows the Krenim Imperium as kind of half the Dominion I believe? Half a Quadrant is a lot of space to conquer, even for the Vaadwaur.
Join the Deltas today!
With the Kobali they were trying to recover their statis pods, and Kobali can just use the Vaadwaur dead to replenish troops.
Wonder why Kobali can't use their own dead?
it was never proven they had time tech after the timeship explosion. you got nothing to back that claim up with.
quite a tale you mentioned there, but like any theory is an opinion and you still have to prove it, stopping digging holes downwards :P. your best bet is to prove they had the technology after the timeline reset otherwise this is just one of those tales like bigfoot.
doubtful, you seen first hand how ruthless and efficent the vaadwuar are, how destructive they are as well and with the iconians directing their ability either directly or by the bluegill creatures, the chances are the iconians would not want "any" krenim left alive, even the ones in zahl space, assuming they continue to exist when the timeline reset.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
You should rewatch that episode then. Specifically the last scene where it shows the plans for the time ship exist. Annorax doesn't use them, but they exist none the less.
EDIT: Check out the last paragraph, just above "memorable quotes."
http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Year_of_Hell,_Part_II_(episode)
can you prove they are time calculations or a laundry list?
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
you ninja'd me
http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Year_of_Hell,_Part_II_(episode)
Last paragraph just above "memorable quotes." If that's not enough for you, then well...idk...
EDIT: oh I'll just give it to you:
"The work he was doing on the PADD is seen... it is temporal incursion calculations."
Dun dun dun ( I added the Dun dun dun part)
that isnt enough to prove anything, can you confirm to me he actually had a timeship? can you actually confirm to me if this is true that this isnt just a theoretical model on a padd that never got out to the rest of the krenim? you are lacking so much proof to confirm your point.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Fictional species go extinct in two ways: thousands of years ago, or on-screen with the main characters there to witness and feel bad about it.
The Krenim aren't extinct.
And it was only the weapon ship that was removed from history...it didn't even eliminate Annorax, who was seen at the very end with his calculations.
Developing the weapon ship might have been an inevitability for the Krenim as a race and they always had their "deadly weapons based on temporal science", but it was never explored if they did have the ability to travel through time, or just to harness weapons that was a hair's breadth away from being able to.
I know that in the 29th century, Starfleet has time travel technology, but in the 25th century, it seems that only the Krenim do...maybe that's where Starfleet got it from though.
And Cardassia was ravaged, but the Cardassians survived, just like the El-Aurian's did after the Borg attacked...and a few of Arturis' people.
So, some of the Krenim could have survived and built the weapon ship to recover their entire race. All they'd need to do would be turn it on the Vaaudwar, like they did that species that caused a plague and the Imperium is back to full-strength...and with some bloodlust, they could even become Year Of Hell merciless out for revenge against the Iconians.
That's a good point. I think people often get so caught up in the story's universe that they forget it's all story telling.
Man, I would hope you're not an existentialist, because I think with the level of proof you need on things you would even doubt your existence to yourself.
You said,
so I showed in,
http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Year_of_Hell,_Part_II_(episode)
that it says,
"The work he was doing on the PADD is seen... it is temporal incursion calculations."
now you're moving the bar even farther...
The whole temporal incursion ships storyline was rather bogus.
Afaik the shipshas been trying to re-establish the Krenim Empire for 200 years (or in Anorex case, the colony with his wife).
How can you explain that they know that there are doing this for 200years when they are outside the "normal" space-time continuum ? Does that mean that there is no time at all. meaning that past, present and future (or at least our understanding of these terms) are one and the same, like the way the Bajoran prophets perceive it ?
Are they inside their own time bubble ? So why do they not age, but still can perceive time ?
And 200 years of temoral incursions would have made a huge impact on the detal quadrant, if not the whole galaxy.
And why all of a sudden was the "normal" timeline restored with the destruction of the temporal ship ?
It only works if one would assume that there is one timeline that is somehow "destined" to happen, that is why it can be restored when the element that made the change is removed from the equation.
Coming back to the Krenim tech, I assume that it produces some kind of chroniton radiation/effect that harms Iconians, rather than producing some time changing effects.
In the end the only time travel stories that really work by following "Keep it simple, stupid". If you spent too much time thinking about time only results in getting a big headache =>Temporal Mechanics 101
Who doesn't?
The Federation has practical time travel technology since at least the 23rd century.
Yes he would've. Because after he erased her from history, no amount of time travel could bring her back. She wouldn't exist in any time period.
Erasing something from the timeline with that weapon ship is much easier, though. After you travel back in time, you have to take steps to ensure that it's not created, whereas with the weapon ship, it's just point, shoot, done. Much less effort involved.
So far I have not seen any explanation on how this 'erased from the space-time continuum' actually works.
Where does this stuff go ? Do you use some kind of higher dimension where you pour in all those quarks/muons/strings ?
If you erase a planet, you would also erase those patricles that were created by stellar fusion.
Without those particles there would have been no star in the first place, or not the type of star that would produces the atoms that later created a planet.
Their chroniton torpedos worked because they were in a state of temporal flux (a couple of picoseconds would be enough imho).
So they basically were able to bypass Voyager's shields because they used the 4th dimensions to shift their torps either forwards & backwards in time, but still using the same 3D spatial coordinates.
Reminds me of an interphasic cloak, but instead of "phasing" your constituting particles you shift them to a different time coordinate while maintining your current 3D coordinates.
So this Star Trek style time travel ?
I mean Kirk was able to use a BoP to bring back the whales in ST IV. All the series have dealt with manipulating the past to correct some kind of disaster, even if the characters, that travelled back in time were the reason for said disaster (-> CIty on the edge of Forever), or were the reason why certain events took place in the first time (Bell Riots shown in DS9).
Lots and lots of pre-destination paradoxes.
And since Iconians are unable to use time travel, why don't use a BoP via the slingshot manouvre, travel back in time and blow up those dyson spheres or something else that would infer with the Iconian long term plans. Why don't you just blow up their planet before they even come into existence as a species ?
Time travel creates too many problems and headaches as soon as you start to think about it in detail and stop viewing it as a plot device.