Interesting, I found the mnei'sahe Duane wrote about with it's fluid meaning could easily be applied to TNG Romulans as well. In fact, IIRC there are some instances of betrayal and backstabbing within those very books that illustrate that.
This, and some of it by the protagonists, even. (To say more would spoil a major plot twist.) And the super-secretive RSE police state (to the point where Starfleet has to surgically alter an anthropologist for deep cover before they can even learn much at all about them). Thing is though, they're the villains.
The authorial intent in both the show and the books is abundantly clear: the Romulan police state does not enjoy popular support of its people, or of the majority of the military for that matter (or why else would Tal Shiar commissars, as in Deanna Troi's cover ID, even be necessary?). This is a commonality that Cryptic seized on for their Romulan portrayal.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Thank you- although sharing it publically has made me realise I could do with improving it.. somehow! I made it tall, thin, and as 'efficient' a biological construction as possible (the book describes it as having a slit for a mouth and little else). But perhaps I could do somehting about giving it a patchwork skin colour. Added with the 'Twitch' stance, however, it does look mildly creepy.
Thank you- although sharing it publically has made me realise I could do with improving it.. somehow! I made it tall, thin, and as 'efficient' a biological construction as possible (the book describes it as having a slit for a mouth and little else). But perhaps I could do somehting about giving it a patchwork skin colour. Added with the 'Twitch' stance, however, it does look mildly creepy.
If you do have a go at one yourself, do share!
Not sure I would have one... my Boffs are "racistly" exclusively Romulan But if I do, I'd share
Not sure I would have one... my Boffs are "racistly" exclusively Romulan But if I do, I'd share
Oh yeah, I should say my Bion is on my Romulan-Klingon hybrid (or Chalchaj 'Qmey from the William Shatner Trek 'Ashes of Eden' novels... Hey! I enjoyed those! :P) from *spooky music* The Future (ship and crew fitted out with every piece of temporal gear). Well, he is now. He was originally my pre-LoR KDF 'alien' Romulan, which I'm sure we all did back in the 'dark ages'.
My true Romulan - and main - is very much like yours in terms of complement: 7 Romulans, 4 Remans, 2 Liberated Borg (1 Klingon drone, 1 freed Romulan), 1 Jem'Hadar (reward BOFF) and 1 bespoke/alien Hirogen.
...seeing it typed out like that makes me feel like a right saddo. LOL
More like pointing out the fact that it's insanely hypocritical to claim that you are only 'fighting back' against some perceived unjust persecution. (when I was only replying honestly to a question another poster asked) when one is wholly willing to use any and all tool at your own disposal against RSE fans.
Apparently pointing out how ludicrous that claim is by giving some examples means that I'm the one playing a victim card
Although I should really be used to these sorts of bizarre overreaching overreactions from Tal Diann by now.
My opinions are pretty definitively on-record on the whole show vs books thing now. If you would take a minute or two to go through them and read them .before jumping down my throat you might find out that our opinions on the matter aren't exactly too far removed, certainly not enough to reasonably generate this amount of instinctual hate.
My opinions are pretty definitively on-record on the whole show vs books thing now. If you would take a minute or two to go through them and read them .before jumping down my throat you might find out that our opinions on the matter aren't exactly too far removed, certainly not enough to reasonably generate this amount of instinctual hate.
It's not hate. Its dislike. I would not dislike you if you didn't shove your opinions in my face. I wouldn't object so vociferously if you didn't insist on proclaiming your vision of Romulans to be the only real one. I would be happy to have a civil conversation. Perhaps you are interested in that also. In that case, perhaps we can do what protogoth has suggested, and make a thread on it. Than we won't have this constant pattern of disagreement and explosion in every thread.
More like pointing out the fact that it's insanely hypocritical to claim that you are only 'fighting back' against some perceived unjust persecution. (when I was only replying honestly to a question another poster asked) when one is wholly willing to use any and all tool at your own disposal against RSE fans.
Apparently pointing out how ludicrous that claim is by giving some examples means that I'm the one playing a victim card
Although I should really be used to these sorts of bizarre overreaching overreactions from Tal Diann by now.
My opinions are pretty definitively on-record on the whole show vs books thing now. If you would take a minute or two to go through them and read them .before jumping down my throat you might find out that our opinions on the matter aren't exactly too far removed, certainly not enough to reasonably generate this amount of instinctual hate.
Here's the deal, catoblepas:
The Romulan Gameplay forum has been relatively calm, with threads remaining largely on-topic (although there have also been brief rabbit chases which, however, did not derail the topics) for most of the time you have not been posting here. In less than a week, you have successfully derailed this topic so that we're not even really discussing what the thread was originally about anymore, you have provoked passionate reactions, you have made several people angry, and you have as usual dismissed anything longer than a paragraph or two as "too long, didn't read." There were still RSE and/or Tal'Shiar supporters posting in the forum, yet the level of vitriol between factions was negligible.
Perhaps you would do well to consider this and see if you can find the reason, without the same old "Y'all are picking on me because I disagree" routine.
This, and some of it by the protagonists, even. (To say more would spoil a major plot twist.) And the super-secretive RSE police state (to the point where Starfleet has to surgically alter an anthropologist for deep cover before they can even learn much at all about them). Thing is though, they're the villains.
The authorial intent in both the show and the books is abundantly clear: the Romulan police state does not enjoy popular support of its people, or of the majority of the military for that matter (or why else would Tal Shiar commissars, as in Deanna Troi's cover ID, even be necessary?). This is a commonality that Cryptic seized on for their Romulan portrayal.
Agreed. The ENT books on the Romulan war took stuff from Duane as well, but with a bit of TNG flavour to it. Those are worth reading if you've watched ENT, even if you didn't like it. The mention of "political officers" assumed to be present on all Romulan ships was amusing.
Anyway, as you or someone else mentioned in this thread, looks like I need to pick up Vulcan's Soul.
Agreed. The ENT books on the Romulan war took stuff from Duane as well, but with a bit of TNG flavour to it. Those are worth reading if you've watched ENT, even if you didn't like it. The mention of "political officers" assumed to be present on all Romulan ships was amusing.
Anyway, as you or someone else mentioned in this thread, looks like I need to pick up Vulcan's Soul.
I second the recommendation of the ENT Romulan War novels.
I did enjoy ENT too (once I got over my personal nerdrage with the theme music lol)
I second the recommendation of the ENT Romulan War novels.
I did enjoy ENT too (once I got over my personal nerdrage with the theme music lol)
ENT was cancelled right when it was actually getting good, TBH. The ENT relaunch books were written using the plot notes for the next couple of seasons.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
ENT was cancelled right when it was actually getting good, TBH. The ENT relaunch books were written using the plot notes for the next couple of seasons.
Yeah - Manny Coto got there too late, sadly. And it would have been great to see on screen the NX-01 in its refit design they had planned.
ENT was cancelled right when it was actually getting good, TBH. The ENT relaunch books were written using the plot notes for the next couple of seasons.
Yeah, shame that, I thought the books handled a lot of the things that needed to be addressed, like transporters seeming dangerous to McCoy 100 years later, why TOS bridges looked so old, etc.
Briton, I agree, ENT had by far, the WORST music of all the series. Bring back my orchestra please. Also woulda liked to see that NX-refit too.....T6 NX- refit thread anyone?
Briton, I agree, ENT had by far, the WORST music of all the series. Bring back my orchestra please.
What made it worse was that it wasn't even written specific for the show! It originally appeared in the movie Patch Adams, sung by Rod Stewart! I mean... I could almost understand them wanting to make the theme a bit... modern...with some inspiring lyrics, but recyling something off the shelf?!
The mention of "political officers" assumed to be present on all Romulan ships was amusing.
And also present in Duane's works - she made it pretty clear that the RSE of her interpretation had political officers on every ship, and that they were generally distrusted and despised by the rank and file.
"You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
--Red Annorax
What made it worse was that it wasn't even written specific for the show! It originally appeared in the movie Patch Adams, sung by Rod Stewart! I mean... I could almost understand them wanting to make the theme a bit... modern...with some inspiring lyrics, but recyling something off the shelf?!
*makes self-calming sounds*
Never having seen the movie, I didn't really mind the theme at first. Then they hit the Xindi arc, when everything was supposed to get darker and edgier, and they made it MORE upbeat!?!?!?!
At which point I said Nope and skipped the credits everyone. (I had the advantage of watching it on Netflix).
All things considered, my second favorite Star Trek theme, after DS9, is the fourth season In A Mirror, Darkly one. They hit the spot on that.
Never having seen the movie, I didn't really mind the theme at first. Then they hit the Xindi arc, when everything was supposed to get darker and edgier, and they made it MORE upbeat!?!?!?!
All things considered, my second favorite Star Trek theme, after DS9, is the fourth season In A Mirror, Darkly one. They hit the spot on that.
DS9 is my go-to series, and so I completely love that theme. And as for the 'Mirror Enterprise' theme, yeah - that was fantastic. Completely forgot they changed the intro/montage for it..
What made it worse was that it wasn't even written specific for the show! It originally appeared in the movie Patch Adams, sung by Rod Stewart! I mean... I could almost understand them wanting to make the theme a bit... modern...with some inspiring lyrics, but recyling something off the shelf?!
And also present in Duane's works - she made it pretty clear that the RSE of her interpretation had political officers on every ship, and that they were generally distrusted and despised by the rank and file.
Ah, I forgot about that, even more evidence that Duane's books can easily relate to TNG Romulans
Comments
This, and some of it by the protagonists, even. (To say more would spoil a major plot twist.) And the super-secretive RSE police state (to the point where Starfleet has to surgically alter an anthropologist for deep cover before they can even learn much at all about them). Thing is though, they're the villains.
The authorial intent in both the show and the books is abundantly clear: the Romulan police state does not enjoy popular support of its people, or of the majority of the military for that matter (or why else would Tal Shiar commissars, as in Deanna Troi's cover ID, even be necessary?). This is a commonality that Cryptic seized on for their Romulan portrayal.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
If you do have a go at one yourself, do share!
Not sure I would have one... my Boffs are "racistly" exclusively Romulan
Oh yeah, I should say my Bion is on my Romulan-Klingon hybrid (or Chalchaj 'Qmey from the William Shatner Trek 'Ashes of Eden' novels... Hey! I enjoyed those! :P) from *spooky music* The Future (ship and crew fitted out with every piece of temporal gear). Well, he is now. He was originally my pre-LoR KDF 'alien' Romulan, which I'm sure we all did back in the 'dark ages'.
My true Romulan - and main - is very much like yours in terms of complement: 7 Romulans, 4 Remans, 2 Liberated Borg (1 Klingon drone, 1 freed Romulan), 1 Jem'Hadar (reward BOFF) and 1 bespoke/alien Hirogen.
...seeing it typed out like that makes me feel like a right saddo. LOL
Apparently pointing out how ludicrous that claim is by giving some examples means that I'm the one playing a victim card
Although I should really be used to these sorts of bizarre overreaching overreactions from Tal Diann by now.
My opinions are pretty definitively on-record on the whole show vs books thing now. If you would take a minute or two to go through them and read them .before jumping down my throat you might find out that our opinions on the matter aren't exactly too far removed, certainly not enough to reasonably generate this amount of instinctual hate.
It's not hate. Its dislike. I would not dislike you if you didn't shove your opinions in my face. I wouldn't object so vociferously if you didn't insist on proclaiming your vision of Romulans to be the only real one. I would be happy to have a civil conversation. Perhaps you are interested in that also. In that case, perhaps we can do what protogoth has suggested, and make a thread on it. Than we won't have this constant pattern of disagreement and explosion in every thread.
Here's the deal, catoblepas:
The Romulan Gameplay forum has been relatively calm, with threads remaining largely on-topic (although there have also been brief rabbit chases which, however, did not derail the topics) for most of the time you have not been posting here. In less than a week, you have successfully derailed this topic so that we're not even really discussing what the thread was originally about anymore, you have provoked passionate reactions, you have made several people angry, and you have as usual dismissed anything longer than a paragraph or two as "too long, didn't read." There were still RSE and/or Tal'Shiar supporters posting in the forum, yet the level of vitriol between factions was negligible.
Perhaps you would do well to consider this and see if you can find the reason, without the same old "Y'all are picking on me because I disagree" routine.
Agreed. The ENT books on the Romulan war took stuff from Duane as well, but with a bit of TNG flavour to it. Those are worth reading if you've watched ENT, even if you didn't like it. The mention of "political officers" assumed to be present on all Romulan ships was amusing.
Anyway, as you or someone else mentioned in this thread, looks like I need to pick up Vulcan's Soul.
I second the recommendation of the ENT Romulan War novels.
I did enjoy ENT too (once I got over my personal nerdrage with the theme music lol)
ENT was cancelled right when it was actually getting good, TBH. The ENT relaunch books were written using the plot notes for the next couple of seasons.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Yeah - Manny Coto got there too late, sadly. And it would have been great to see on screen the NX-01 in its refit design they had planned.
Yeah, shame that, I thought the books handled a lot of the things that needed to be addressed, like transporters seeming dangerous to McCoy 100 years later, why TOS bridges looked so old, etc.
Briton, I agree, ENT had by far, the WORST music of all the series. Bring back my orchestra please. Also woulda liked to see that NX-refit too.....T6 NX- refit thread anyone?
What made it worse was that it wasn't even written specific for the show! It originally appeared in the movie Patch Adams, sung by Rod Stewart! I mean... I could almost understand them wanting to make the theme a bit... modern...with some inspiring lyrics, but recyling something off the shelf?!
*makes self-calming sounds*
--Red Annorax
Never having seen the movie, I didn't really mind the theme at first. Then they hit the Xindi arc, when everything was supposed to get darker and edgier, and they made it MORE upbeat!?!?!?!
At which point I said Nope and skipped the credits everyone. (I had the advantage of watching it on Netflix).
All things considered, my second favorite Star Trek theme, after DS9, is the fourth season In A Mirror, Darkly one. They hit the spot on that.
LOL I know! What a mis-step that was!
DS9 is my go-to series, and so I completely love that theme. And as for the 'Mirror Enterprise' theme, yeah - that was fantastic. Completely forgot they changed the intro/montage for it..
Wow, didn't know that....../facepalm
Oh yes, in a Mirror Darkly's theme and montage was excellent. Even Voyager had a lovely theme.
Ah, I forgot about that, even more evidence that Duane's books can easily relate to TNG Romulans
Listen to the first 16 pieces of this (you can skip number 8, which is atypical of the overall material and has vocals):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0DvOMdQFBE&list=RDH0DvOMdQFBE#t=0
Then listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7lVsGHI3AE
The moral of the story? There is a precedent.
Bloody hell, that takes me back - I remember arguing with my schoolmates about it!