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Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination
redshirtthefirst
Member Posts: 415 Arc User
I will simply leave this here for what it means... I thought it was worth to remind ourselves (and myself) of the power behind this simple expression.
Live Long and Prosper fellow players.
Live Long and Prosper fellow players.
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Was IDIC ever something shown on the shows beyond the symbol?
Also the one thing incompatible with IDIC/Tolerance is Intolerance, which seems like a paradox.
IDIC means "Give licensees of Star Trek merchandise money".
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Not necessarily, unless said intolerance means the seclusion of one or ending the life of one for divergence of opinions. It is, at the end, the power of accepting the existence of said opinion even if it is different than your own.
As far as symbol, be it a piece of TV merchandise, religious or political... symbols have always been a part of who we are as human been. They are a representation of what can be sometimes complex to even try to represent.
For me, IDIC is one of them and I thank Gene (and/or the actual person who created it) for coming out with it.
Aren't people always complaining about this game not being 'Star Trek' enough?
Because I'd argue challenging people's views and prejudiced notions is pretty 'Trek.'
I point to the episodes about Black-White and White-Black face aliens, Bajoran Creationism being taught or not taught in a Federation school on a Bajoran space station, the ethics of genetic engineering and the hiding of the less than desirable results from public view, and even the Enterprise episode about Trip getting cloned to harvest the clone' s brain tissue for Trip.
Actually I find it bizarre someone can make it through the franchise til now and have Mated TRIBBLE Klingons be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
This really can't be stressed enough. These characters have been established as mated since Autumn 2010.
Every single person in STO who is shocked at this revelation reminds me exactly of this movie scene.
You can be anti TRIBBLE, you perfectly have the right to be intolerant and ignorant. But enjoying a trek related thing, and complaining about it ? That's completely stupid, because Star Trek was about tolerance. And they even made AN ENTIRE EPISODE about TRIBBLE/TRIBBLE in the outcast !
What's next, complain about interracial kisses in STO ?
If you disagree with the whole TRIBBLE/TRIBBLE or interracial stuff, and still enjoying ST, you're doing it wrong. Period. Star Trek is not about spaceships, it's about social interactions, and IDIC. Most of the shows were about that, either plain as day or slightly hidden like "the outcast".
Just look at the various crew, mostly the TOS one, during the cold war, when the Black were fighting for equal rights in the USA, we have a black (woman on top of that), a russian, and an asian, as part of the senior officers. Today that sound fine, but back then, that was insulting for some people.
Honestly, I found the TRIBBLE part of the episode, which is incredibly minor, was very well done. It was not showed into our face, like "LOOK A TRIBBLE !", everyone was acting natural, it's was normal. Because IT IS normal for 24th century human, and obviously, Klingon.
It was not Bioware like, were they'll put a weird transgender from another species, and have about 50lines of dialogues about the situation, and how it's normal.
TLDR : This is Star Trek. Deal with it.
Yes Star Trek has a long history of using social issues as as stories. It's just annoying to some when STO shoehorns in fashionable PC non sequiturs into FEs.
Yeesh. Get over yourselves.
I was actually referring to the actual gameplay content
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No, this is thread #1 about IDIC.
While "that other matter" have seemed to be taking center stage, others have came up as well that made me bring forward the symbolism of the IDIC... beyond this point, people interpret it as they see fit.
What did you think would happen?
Seriously given the wider context of what's currently set the forums aflame why would you bring up 'Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations' if not to make a statement one way or another?
Ok. That's fair. Though perhaps in context of the flame war that keeps re-igniting on the subject that would be good to make absolutely clear.
Anyway it seemed like Trek to me:
Techno babble: check
Terrible Tactics/Strategy: check
Spaceship Battles: check
Lore heavy(ish): check
If you're bemoaning the lack of exploration, it isn't really an appropriate time given the wider war the story is doing right now. Alternatively, consider it an exploration of poor Klingon Intelligence tactics.
Yes, honestly, this is getting silly. The mods said no. Why can't ppl just respect that?!
Yet, they have now made it clear that that is the intent. I think we need to let it go now rather than repeat the cycle.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Everyone has things they strongly believe in and it's best to show others the same respect you wish to be given... even if you passionately disagree. If you have to resort to name calling or passive aggressive insults you're the problem.
This tempest in a teapot, and so many others like it illustrate a far worse problem than "civil rights"... It shows we are a culture that is willing to tear ourselves to pieces, that we can cease to be viewed as a person if someone's beliefs don't match our own. People instantly become "the enemy" and as such, should be destroyed.
This is just so sad on many, many levels...
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
2) The whole concept of IDIC is vacuous and frankly DUMB. It's especially silly that the logic-obsessed Vulcans would worship diversity as some kind of an end. Diversity is neither good or bad. It just is. In some situations you'd want diversity(genetic diversity of a species, for example), sometimes not(opinions on which way is the nearest road when lost in a forest etc.). The Trek universe itself contains countless examples of bad diversity, like the Borg or Vaadvaur.
People whipping out IDIC as a supposed answer to anything is just embarrathy-inducing. Like it's been said, it was thought up as a marketing gimmic, with not that many minutes of thought put into the actual philosophy, and it shows. Using it as some kind of a guide for your personal philosophy is even higher on the scale of silliness than the Law of Attraction.
It's at the top of each of the forum sections.
Star Trek Online's Community Rules and Policies
Yeah, sometimes a refresher or reinforcement can be useful, especially when introducing something that is guaranteed to cause:
"I don't like to see this sort of thing in game."
"You are a bigot."
"You are intolerant of my views. You are a bigot."
etc.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Intolerance is the only thing Tolerance can't tolerate, which is a paradox.
It's simple, Star trek is about humanism, not about destroying star ships.
We exist. We love. We have sex. We have relationships. None of that would be political of people didn't keep trying to use political power to stop us or force us to hide.
And I'm exhausted to the bottom of my soul from it.
The Kazon are an even more extreme example - they have embraced the scavenger culture so thoroughly they make Pakled look like generalists. One wonders how they're even able to keep their stolen starships operating - it is known that they will not create a new class of starship, nor even build a new one from the old designs.
The more worldviews one's society can encompass, the greater the society's available range of responses to challenge. It is logical.
It can be logical, but that's entirely situational. There's nothing that makes the concept of diversity in itself inherently beneficial. The Vulcans are a monoculture themselves, where adherence to their version of logic is required, or else you risk expulsion, as demonstrated by Spock's brother Sybok, for example.
That assumes that continued growth is always desirable.
I might be mistaken, but the expansion of the Klingon Empire happened after Klingons changed to their current philosophy. Also, according to IDIC, Klingons behaving the way they do would be an example of diversity, since they're Klingons and not some other species. I myself consider the Klingons seemingly consisting of nothing but warriors an example of bad writing through the Planet of The Hats trope.
That seems like a plot hole to me, to be honest. Possibly they force captives to teach them basic maintenance, or just use slaves?
Not necessarily. It can also drain a society's resources through breaking social cohesion, dividing the population and causing unrest, and often violent disagreement. DS9 shows that even the Federation isn't immune to this.
Whether or not maximizing the variety of opinion would benefit a society depends highly on the society and it's current situation. Many of the species in the Trek universe would quickly descent into chaos if there was a visible diversity of opinion possible, because of the way the species were written. Many of them have violent or tribalistic impulses, and after dissenting opinions would get crushed, they'd relatively quickly return to their current existence.
Perhaps the saying attributed to Voltaire is more appropriate: "I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it." If more people could look past anger and knee-jerk reactions and the automatic first resort to "let's punish people because they said things we don't like," and instead consider that real tolerance requires...actually tolerating that others disagree with one's point of view instead of intimidating them to shut up...I think things would go better.
Oh, and prolegap--totally agreed on Klingons and bad writing. House Pegh was full of bad writing, but unfortunately that's been a tradition since the TOS movies started dumbing down the Klingons and then TNG and DS9 handed the Klinks the idiot ball permanently. By the time STO came around and made them even dumber, it's hard to say they weren't following established canon precedent by making them dumber than rocks. Pretty much just a bunch of angry, untrained pit bulls in their portrayal...a sad loss compared to the likes of the TOS Klingon captains.
Kai komerex klinzhai, dagnabbit!!! :mad:
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On a related note, I've seen a lot of people use that term over the last few days, but it seems that many(not you Sheldon) do not understand it can apply equally to *both* sides of the issue:
- Google
So yes, being intolerant of people because of their sexuality is bigotry, but so is being intolerant of people because of their opinions. It's something to keep in mind when discussing any issue.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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