And if you don't recognize the name, maybe this will help.
Thank you for linking that
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Two best things about new episode is that its short and rewards are good. Other than that there isn't much to look at. Very poor writing and horrible level design ruined it. TBH i have no idea how could they release such a low quality content cuz it look likes one of those "My first foundry mission" really.
One thing I didn't really get was how it was implied that the mission was a failure, apart from the intel you collected.
You did manage to plant the charges after all. We then are surprised by the presence of an Iconian, which means we have to abort the mission. But by the time that happens, we'd already placed a few bombs.
Or wouldn't those have had enough effect?
I also wonder if we'll actually see some of this data later on. It'd be nice if it could play some role in the future. When we downloaded the information on the entire Iconian network in Sphere of Influence, the discussion was quickly moved to the Dyson sphere without any attention ever given again to these data.
Oh and a small hint: DON'T use your tricorder lol. I'm replaying the episode on another character and I just found a console I hadn't seen yesterday. I wouldn't have found it if I had followed my tricorder
I was disappointed by House of Pegh. Yes it's short but the story is full of nonsense.
First we have planted some bombs and it was never mentionned that the iconians disarmed them, so why the objective didn't explosed?
Second is Kahless and his death. There're not really any reasons for him to be in a cover operation rather on a battlefield where he can shine in front of everyone.
Also considering how the Iconian was completely paralysed, it's a nonsense that Kahless just cut an arm and then speak instead to do the finishing blow immediatly. They all know how dangerous an Iconian can be and nobody in his right mind would have let pass the chance to kill one of them at the firt opportunity.
instead Kahless took his time and was killed.
Third it's also a nonsense that the others member of the team didn't finish the work and kill the iconian who was weakened.
I can understand there's a need to show the sacrifice of Kahless, but it was poorly done this time.
I think I understand how SF universes work just fine. No need to start name calling and insulting people as it doesn't strengthen your point. It only makes you sound less intelligent and what you have to say more easily ignored.
There is nothing wrong with having same sex relationships in Star Trek. If Cryptic wants to have this in STO, then no big deal. However, I'd much rather see it the subject of a story rather than (at least to me what seemed like) an afterthought tossed in at the last minute to be edgy. It's a casual mention that as I've said repeatedly lends nothing to the overall story.
I cannot speak for everyone, but I personally would like to see important issues such as this handled better in a story, not casually tossed in.
I wasn't insulting a person, I was insulting people and their mind-sets. I'm sure people can read my post whilst filtering out the word 'morons', if not, that's up to them, I didn't really make my post for specific people, just to get my view out there.
Why would you want it as a story to itself? That would be direct 'in your face' pandering bordering on trying to be 'edgy'.
It's not there to add to the story, it's there to add to the characters which in turn add to the story. The guy watching the dancing guy in the Nimbus mission had nothing to do with Thalaron triggers but I didn't notice and complaints, hell B'Eler mentioning Trevana in 'Spin the Wheel' had nothing to do with the undercover agent on Drozana, it was only there to flesh out a character and make the universe richer with more detail.
The best way to handle or confront important issues is to normalise them not sensationalise them, that would draw a lot more ire.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
When I was playing, one of the minor bad guys got stuck in the ceiling, wasn't targetable with weapons or my BOFFS and kept shooting me while I was trying to help Kahless. In the end I had to use my Ophidian Cane to drain the life out of him, but waiting three minutes each recharge...it took me about 10-minutes to finally kill him.
And the best thing for me was the name-dropping of the Krenim...but I really wish they'd hinted more at what's going to happen!
So anyone disagreeing with you now is a bigot? Uhm, no. First of all, I simply don't care who does what with whom, be they heterosexual or homosexual or robosexual. I just didn't see the need to mention this at all in the story as it serves no real purpose.
Being able to spot bad story writing doesn't make someone a bigot.
I'm sorry I have to agree with this... To me it's offensive in how it portrays a TRIBBLE couple. Here's a tip guys, not every TRIBBLE couple is made of one feminine woman and one "grumpy TRIBBLE" I hate that stereotype and wish it would just burn in the depths of hades!
The whole Iconian storyline feels very shallow, and trying to stir the pot by "going there" only serves to shine a light on just how shallow everything really is. Who thought that the episode where you kill off Kahless would be well served with a doing a bad job of representing a homosexual couple? It feels as if it was simply forced in there as a distraction for the players... You could have just gone with scantily clad Orions "tonic dancing" with each other for all the respect it gave same sex couples.
I understand Star Trek has a history of addressing "issues" and allowing the writers to share their personal opinions on them, but I'd suggest focusing on more pressing concerns like shallow stories with throw away characters. Next time you want to share an NPCs sexual preferences, how about at least attempt to make it mean something to the story... here's a suggestion.
"Klingon Female 1" (can't recall their names) is fighting to save Kahless... "Klingon Female 2" notices the fight is going badly and rushes in, taking the death blow from the Iconian and saving "Klingon Female 1". KF1 can then express her painful loss and elaborate on why KF2 was so important to her in a meaningful yet respectful way. It'd also be completely in character for them to share how Klingon culture frowns upon their relationship as a way of making a connection to modern gays who feel that elements of our culture also frowns upon same sex relationships .
ANYTHING would have been better than just a female klingon and her "grumpy TRIBBLE" lover.
a story with no personality isn't a story it's a statement, nothing more than a collection of carefully worded notes in a journal, just a list of occurrences and a register of individuals present. a story is simply a vehicle for the characters in it, it allows us to develop an understanding of the characters in it, whether we hate them, love them, relate to them or are inspired by them, and provides a medium for us to better understand ourselves and often others.
this particular story line is causing some controversy, as such that is very much in the spirit of Star Trek. it is very easy for writers to stick to 'safe' topics, so purposeful inclusion of a storyline that may inflame some people is healthy and progressive.
we live in a world of many attitudes, discrimination in any format is the worst of them, i am glad there are so many out there actively pursuing a change to negative, destructive attitudes. i am a massive fan of reason, and feel that honest, open discourse, is often a great conduit to understanding.
ignorance is not a crime and fearing what we don't understand is human nature.. the real problem is allowing that fear to fester into hate, rather than trying to understand it. in the case of common prejudice, you don't have to understand or even like something to accept it, you certainly don't have to be a part of it, but denying its right to exist alongside the things you do understand or like and want to be a part of is wrong on every level, especially when the focus of your prejudice accepts you.
Now, why it couldn't be two Klingon blokes...oh no, there can't possibly be more than one TRIBBLE in the relationship. In Klingon culture it wouldn't surprise me if sex with your fellow warriors was no different to sharing a mug of bloodwine!
Ok heres my issues with the the two ladies in question
Why did cryptic find in necaassary to shove this in our faces i mean real life media does enough of that in everyday life but to come here and have it done again?
Now i know some of you dont understand but i was brought up to mind my own damn business and peoples personal lives is not my damn business unless its crammed in my face AND MADE MY BUSINESS!!!:mad:
so they are TRIBBLE well whoopdidy doo da so is millions of other REAL people its not a damn issue and i think we got the point the first time in spin the wheel.
ENOUGH!!! im so tired of having peoples personal lives and choices rammed in my face by those just trying to cash in on it.
Absolutely NOTHING of the whole story makes any sense, yet the only thing you noticed is the 3-lines long LGBT part of dialogue.
The whole episode needed not happen, the klingon ship could just go there alone, quickly stabilize the reactors (you do that in the very first part of the mission), teleport every single piece of ordnance they had aboard (there were no transport inhibitors as we could easily get in), and blow the whole facility up, with the Iconian in it.
Instead we had to do stuff that put everyone at high risk for no reason at all and lost Kahless in the process. And we didn't even succeed. As I said, the illogical, unneeded and useless stuff is all over the mission, yet you just noticed a few lines of dialogue that doesn't "suit" you.
I'm not going to say that the people complaining about the Klingon couple are bigots; however, their arguments are bigoted. They are the arguments bigots use. I know that because I grew up among bigots - people who actively wanted LGBT folk imprisoned or killed - and I heard these exact same things frequently while I was growing up.
I'll give you some background here. I'm a TRIBBLE. I'm also transgender, so I hit two of the letters in the Great LGBT Alphabet (it's like the Great Material Continuum, except... nope, I've got no punchline here). I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian sect. I have a very, very good idea what I'm talking about.
So I'll first hit "shoving it down our throats." The fact is this: If the scene with the two Klingons was "shoving (their sexuality) down our throats," it is utterly impossible, short of turning into hermits and living on some mountain to seek Enlightenment, for LGBT folks to go more than a few waking hours without straight sexuality being "shoved down their throats." We had a scene involving a couple, one of whom was very protective toward the other. That's a standard trope in action stories, which is what STO is. Straight people accuse us of "shoving it down their throats" when we have pictures of our families on our desks, when LGB couples kiss gently in public spaces, when we do any of dozens of things straight couples do without a second thought in front of other people. "Shoving it down our throats" is an inherently bigoted argument, one that treats LGB relationships as less valuable or more shameful than straight relationships.
Next thing to hit: "Just throwing it in." I desperately want more stories where characters like me are "just thrown in." I don't want every story involving a TRIBBLE couple, every love triangle story involving a man who has to choose between a man and a woman, every story where a trans woman shows up, to be some great tale of the struggle for equality or the nature of relationships. The movie I want, more than anything - that I would pay to go see even if it was awful, because I'm so desperate for it to exist - is a standard romcom in the 90s vein where both members of the primary couple are women.
When we met the Klingon couple, I was absolutely certain that one of them would die, because TRIBBLE couples are always split up by tragedy in film and television. Virtually. Every. Single. Time. Even in LGBT-targeted stories, that's the near-universal trope. When Kahless showed up (his death was also obvious from the start), my prediction changed from "the spy is going to die" to "Well, I guess we're going to lose all the Klingons," because at that point standard storytelling was going to drop at least two of them and I figured Cryptic was going to go for the gut punch as hard as possible because, as much as I like their writers, they have the subtlety of an explosive sledgehammer shot to the head. Then the Klingon couple... survived. Both members.
I was floored, relieved, and immensely thankful, because I had gotten, in this short little 15-minute mission, a story that included a TRIBBLE couple and wasn't about the horrible tragedy their love and the cruelty of the world put them through before breaking them.
Also: Any scene in which a Klingon sings in STO is pretty much destined to become one of my favorites. The episode made me smile and involved a Klingon singing, and that pretty much wins the day for me.
I'd love to write a whole wall of text about Emperor Kahless finally living up to the legacy of his predecessor, because that's also a wonderful beat to have included, but I think I've made enough points for now.
To be fair, that's the part of the story the discussion was about when jorantomalak replied. His first sentence specifies that "Ok heres my issues with the the two ladies in question".
Actually, you are calling those people bigots. And as one of those you're accusing, I challenge you to find where I mention that anyone needs to be imprisoned or killed in this thread because of their preference.
Yeah, you missed the point. I didn't say you think LGBT people should be killed. I said that your arguments mirror the arguments made by people who do think that.
There is nothing wrong with having same sex relationships in Star Trek. If Cryptic wants to have this in STO, then no big deal. However, I'd much rather see it the subject of a story rather than (at least to me what seemed like) an afterthought tossed in at the last minute to be edgy. It's a casual mention that as I've said repeatedly lends nothing to the overall story.
If one of the Klingons in the couple was male, would you feel like it needs to be the subject of an entire story? I wouldn't. So, why treat TRIBBLE people differently?
TRIBBLE people are normal and should be treated normally. Treating it like a normal, unexceptional relationship is just fine, because that's what it is. That attitude says a lot more than a preachy, sanctimonious Trek "message" episode would.
If one of the Klingons in the couple was male, would you feel like it needs to be the subject of an entire story? I wouldn't. So, why treat TRIBBLE people differently?
TRIBBLE people are normal and should be treated normally. Treating it like a normal, unexceptional relationship is just fine, because that's what it is. That attitude says a lot more than a preachy, sanctimonious Trek "message" episode would.
Especially since Trek was bad at LGBT.
There were zero TV-canon LGBT couples for whom it was "we love each other" and not "alien weirdness is happening." Zero primary characters who were identified as anything but straight and cis.
I love Star Trek - really, I do, and it was often a bright shining beacon of progressiveness and hope. But when Trek in the 60s was beating down the idea of racism with a hammer - putting a black woman and a Russian man on the bridge of a starship that was built in San Francisco and fought for freedom and the rights of all beings - 90s and 00s Trek was pussyfooting around LGBT issues like it would scald the skin of writers to touch them directly. It's honestly Trek's own great failing at living up to what it was meant to be, and I'm immensely delighted by even small steps STO takes toward rectifying that.
There were zero TV-canon LGBT couples for whom it was "we love each other" and not "alien weirdness is happening." Zero primary characters who were identified as anything but straight and cis.
I love Star Trek - really, I do, and it was often a bright shining beacon of progressiveness and hope. But when Trek in the 60s was beating down the idea of racism with a hammer - putting a black woman and a Russian man on the bridge of a starship that was built in San Francisco and fought for freedom and the rights of all beings - 90s and 00s Trek was pussyfooting around LGBT issues like it would scald the skin of writers to touch them directly. It's honestly Trek's own great failing at living up to what it was meant to be, and I'm immensely delighted by even small steps STO takes toward rectifying that.
I thought the best we saw was in TNG and DS9 dealing with Trills and gender flexibility. Dr Crusher's romance and then Worf and Dax. Worf has only minor discomfort when the subject of Kurzon and his male libido are brought up, as well as the other previous male hosts. And Beverly seems at least open to her partner's change in gender. They seem not to have encountered Trills before either in that episode so the whole concept of the symbiosis was a new thing.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
they killed kahless... you bastars...
no problem we will just clone him again...
nice mission. nice klingon singing.
Dammit now I'm going to be making internal south park references the next N times I have to grind that mission!
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I thought the best we saw was in TNG and DS9 dealing with Trills and gender flexibility. Dr Crusher's romance and then Worf and Dax. Worf has only minor discomfort when the subject of Kurzon and his male libido are brought up, as well as the other previous male hosts. And Beverly seems at least open to her partner's change in gender. They seem not to have encountered Trills before either in that episode so the whole concept of the symbiosis was a new thing.
Yeah. Those episodes were the primary ones I was talking about when I brought up "alien weirdness."
They're not awful - in fact, they're honestly pretty good. But the absolute lack of any sort of LGBT storytelling outside alien weirdness hurts them, and hurts the franchise as a whole.
Yeah. Those episodes were the primary ones I was talking about when I brought up "alien weirdness."
They're not awful - in fact, they're honestly pretty good. But the absolute lack of any sort of LGBT storytelling outside alien weirdness hurts them, and hurts the franchise as a whole.
I'm sure you'll **** all over me for this, but maybe in the future TRIBBLE people don't exist? Not to be too technical, but from a logical stand-point there isn't anything we can contribute to a society that straight people can't do equally or better than us. So in Gene Roddenberry's 'Utopian' Federation, perhaps their advanced medical technology has allowed them to perfect the human Genome and eliminate deviance like this. Just an interesting thought.
I'm sure you'll **** all over me for this, but maybe in the future TRIBBLE people don't exist? Not to be too technical, but from a logical stand-point there isn't anything we can contribute to a society that straight people can't do equally or better than us. So in Gene Roddenberry's 'Utopian' Federation, perhaps their advanced medical technology has allowed them to perfect the human Genome and eliminate deviance like this. Just an interesting thought.
Yeah, that's awful.
Because there's no reason to do that, and humanity in the Trek setting largely got over its eugenics/"genetic perfection" fetish in the 1990s when that fetish nearly led to its extinction as a species.
Because there's no reason to do that, and humanity in the Trek setting largely got over its eugenics/"genetic perfection" fetish in the 1990s when that fetish nearly led to its extinction as a species.
But if something doesn't exist who can miss it? If nobody ever got addicted to drugs nobody would even think of the fact that a drug addict could exist.
Food for thought, one cannot claim to be truly open-minded without examining every scenario.
Comments
Final space battle could have been a little more interesting than a few waves of Herald cannon fodder.
Thank you for linking that
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You did manage to plant the charges after all. We then are surprised by the presence of an Iconian, which means we have to abort the mission. But by the time that happens, we'd already placed a few bombs.
Or wouldn't those have had enough effect?
I also wonder if we'll actually see some of this data later on. It'd be nice if it could play some role in the future. When we downloaded the information on the entire Iconian network in Sphere of Influence, the discussion was quickly moved to the Dyson sphere without any attention ever given again to these data.
Oh and a small hint: DON'T use your tricorder lol. I'm replaying the episode on another character and I just found a console I hadn't seen yesterday. I wouldn't have found it if I had followed my tricorder
First we have planted some bombs and it was never mentionned that the iconians disarmed them, so why the objective didn't explosed?
Second is Kahless and his death. There're not really any reasons for him to be in a cover operation rather on a battlefield where he can shine in front of everyone.
Also considering how the Iconian was completely paralysed, it's a nonsense that Kahless just cut an arm and then speak instead to do the finishing blow immediatly. They all know how dangerous an Iconian can be and nobody in his right mind would have let pass the chance to kill one of them at the firt opportunity.
instead Kahless took his time and was killed.
Third it's also a nonsense that the others member of the team didn't finish the work and kill the iconian who was weakened.
I can understand there's a need to show the sacrifice of Kahless, but it was poorly done this time.
I wasn't insulting a person, I was insulting people and their mind-sets. I'm sure people can read my post whilst filtering out the word 'morons', if not, that's up to them, I didn't really make my post for specific people, just to get my view out there.
Why would you want it as a story to itself? That would be direct 'in your face' pandering bordering on trying to be 'edgy'.
It's not there to add to the story, it's there to add to the characters which in turn add to the story. The guy watching the dancing guy in the Nimbus mission had nothing to do with Thalaron triggers but I didn't notice and complaints, hell B'Eler mentioning Trevana in 'Spin the Wheel' had nothing to do with the undercover agent on Drozana, it was only there to flesh out a character and make the universe richer with more detail.
The best way to handle or confront important issues is to normalise them not sensationalise them, that would draw a lot more ire.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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And the best thing for me was the name-dropping of the Krenim...but I really wish they'd hinted more at what's going to happen!
I'm sorry I have to agree with this... To me it's offensive in how it portrays a TRIBBLE couple. Here's a tip guys, not every TRIBBLE couple is made of one feminine woman and one "grumpy TRIBBLE" I hate that stereotype and wish it would just burn in the depths of hades!
The whole Iconian storyline feels very shallow, and trying to stir the pot by "going there" only serves to shine a light on just how shallow everything really is. Who thought that the episode where you kill off Kahless would be well served with a doing a bad job of representing a homosexual couple? It feels as if it was simply forced in there as a distraction for the players... You could have just gone with scantily clad Orions "tonic dancing" with each other for all the respect it gave same sex couples.
I understand Star Trek has a history of addressing "issues" and allowing the writers to share their personal opinions on them, but I'd suggest focusing on more pressing concerns like shallow stories with throw away characters. Next time you want to share an NPCs sexual preferences, how about at least attempt to make it mean something to the story... here's a suggestion.
"Klingon Female 1" (can't recall their names) is fighting to save Kahless... "Klingon Female 2" notices the fight is going badly and rushes in, taking the death blow from the Iconian and saving "Klingon Female 1". KF1 can then express her painful loss and elaborate on why KF2 was so important to her in a meaningful yet respectful way. It'd also be completely in character for them to share how Klingon culture frowns upon their relationship as a way of making a connection to modern gays who feel that elements of our culture also frowns upon same sex relationships .
ANYTHING would have been better than just a female klingon and her "grumpy TRIBBLE" lover.
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
this particular story line is causing some controversy, as such that is very much in the spirit of Star Trek. it is very easy for writers to stick to 'safe' topics, so purposeful inclusion of a storyline that may inflame some people is healthy and progressive.
we live in a world of many attitudes, discrimination in any format is the worst of them, i am glad there are so many out there actively pursuing a change to negative, destructive attitudes. i am a massive fan of reason, and feel that honest, open discourse, is often a great conduit to understanding.
ignorance is not a crime and fearing what we don't understand is human nature.. the real problem is allowing that fear to fester into hate, rather than trying to understand it. in the case of common prejudice, you don't have to understand or even like something to accept it, you certainly don't have to be a part of it, but denying its right to exist alongside the things you do understand or like and want to be a part of is wrong on every level, especially when the focus of your prejudice accepts you.
indeed; like on earth in the past : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes
Absolutely NOTHING of the whole story makes any sense, yet the only thing you noticed is the 3-lines long LGBT part of dialogue.
The whole episode needed not happen, the klingon ship could just go there alone, quickly stabilize the reactors (you do that in the very first part of the mission), teleport every single piece of ordnance they had aboard (there were no transport inhibitors as we could easily get in), and blow the whole facility up, with the Iconian in it.
Instead we had to do stuff that put everyone at high risk for no reason at all and lost Kahless in the process. And we didn't even succeed. As I said, the illogical, unneeded and useless stuff is all over the mission, yet you just noticed a few lines of dialogue that doesn't "suit" you.
I'll give you some background here. I'm a TRIBBLE. I'm also transgender, so I hit two of the letters in the Great LGBT Alphabet (it's like the Great Material Continuum, except... nope, I've got no punchline here). I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian sect. I have a very, very good idea what I'm talking about.
So I'll first hit "shoving it down our throats." The fact is this: If the scene with the two Klingons was "shoving (their sexuality) down our throats," it is utterly impossible, short of turning into hermits and living on some mountain to seek Enlightenment, for LGBT folks to go more than a few waking hours without straight sexuality being "shoved down their throats." We had a scene involving a couple, one of whom was very protective toward the other. That's a standard trope in action stories, which is what STO is. Straight people accuse us of "shoving it down their throats" when we have pictures of our families on our desks, when LGB couples kiss gently in public spaces, when we do any of dozens of things straight couples do without a second thought in front of other people. "Shoving it down our throats" is an inherently bigoted argument, one that treats LGB relationships as less valuable or more shameful than straight relationships.
Next thing to hit: "Just throwing it in." I desperately want more stories where characters like me are "just thrown in." I don't want every story involving a TRIBBLE couple, every love triangle story involving a man who has to choose between a man and a woman, every story where a trans woman shows up, to be some great tale of the struggle for equality or the nature of relationships. The movie I want, more than anything - that I would pay to go see even if it was awful, because I'm so desperate for it to exist - is a standard romcom in the 90s vein where both members of the primary couple are women.
When we met the Klingon couple, I was absolutely certain that one of them would die, because TRIBBLE couples are always split up by tragedy in film and television. Virtually. Every. Single. Time. Even in LGBT-targeted stories, that's the near-universal trope. When Kahless showed up (his death was also obvious from the start), my prediction changed from "the spy is going to die" to "Well, I guess we're going to lose all the Klingons," because at that point standard storytelling was going to drop at least two of them and I figured Cryptic was going to go for the gut punch as hard as possible because, as much as I like their writers, they have the subtlety of an explosive sledgehammer shot to the head. Then the Klingon couple... survived. Both members.
I was floored, relieved, and immensely thankful, because I had gotten, in this short little 15-minute mission, a story that included a TRIBBLE couple and wasn't about the horrible tragedy their love and the cruelty of the world put them through before breaking them.
Also: Any scene in which a Klingon sings in STO is pretty much destined to become one of my favorites. The episode made me smile and involved a Klingon singing, and that pretty much wins the day for me.
I'd love to write a whole wall of text about Emperor Kahless finally living up to the legacy of his predecessor, because that's also a wonderful beat to have included, but I think I've made enough points for now.
Yeah, you missed the point. I didn't say you think LGBT people should be killed. I said that your arguments mirror the arguments made by people who do think that.
How about responding to the rest of the post?
If one of the Klingons in the couple was male, would you feel like it needs to be the subject of an entire story? I wouldn't. So, why treat TRIBBLE people differently?
TRIBBLE people are normal and should be treated normally. Treating it like a normal, unexceptional relationship is just fine, because that's what it is. That attitude says a lot more than a preachy, sanctimonious Trek "message" episode would.
Especially since Trek was bad at LGBT.
There were zero TV-canon LGBT couples for whom it was "we love each other" and not "alien weirdness is happening." Zero primary characters who were identified as anything but straight and cis.
I love Star Trek - really, I do, and it was often a bright shining beacon of progressiveness and hope. But when Trek in the 60s was beating down the idea of racism with a hammer - putting a black woman and a Russian man on the bridge of a starship that was built in San Francisco and fought for freedom and the rights of all beings - 90s and 00s Trek was pussyfooting around LGBT issues like it would scald the skin of writers to touch them directly. It's honestly Trek's own great failing at living up to what it was meant to be, and I'm immensely delighted by even small steps STO takes toward rectifying that.
no problem we will just clone him again...
nice mission. nice klingon singing.
I thought the best we saw was in TNG and DS9 dealing with Trills and gender flexibility. Dr Crusher's romance and then Worf and Dax. Worf has only minor discomfort when the subject of Kurzon and his male libido are brought up, as well as the other previous male hosts. And Beverly seems at least open to her partner's change in gender. They seem not to have encountered Trills before either in that episode so the whole concept of the symbiosis was a new thing.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Dammit now I'm going to be making internal south park references the next N times I have to grind that mission!
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Yeah. Those episodes were the primary ones I was talking about when I brought up "alien weirdness."
They're not awful - in fact, they're honestly pretty good. But the absolute lack of any sort of LGBT storytelling outside alien weirdness hurts them, and hurts the franchise as a whole.
Lol, me too!
I'm sure you'll **** all over me for this, but maybe in the future TRIBBLE people don't exist? Not to be too technical, but from a logical stand-point there isn't anything we can contribute to a society that straight people can't do equally or better than us. So in Gene Roddenberry's 'Utopian' Federation, perhaps their advanced medical technology has allowed them to perfect the human Genome and eliminate deviance like this. Just an interesting thought.
Yeah, that's awful.
Because there's no reason to do that, and humanity in the Trek setting largely got over its eugenics/"genetic perfection" fetish in the 1990s when that fetish nearly led to its extinction as a species.
But if something doesn't exist who can miss it? If nobody ever got addicted to drugs nobody would even think of the fact that a drug addict could exist.
Food for thought, one cannot claim to be truly open-minded without examining every scenario.