Doesn't change the fact that you're not just getting lobi for those 200 keys. Or that a lot of lobi come from people who open boxes for the other stuff. Which is why lobi ships aren't as expensive.
(honestly, I'm kind of baffled by the thought "I opened boxes for lobi", it seems insane to me that someone would do that. I've always seen lobi as the extra consolation prize, the box-tops you collect off your cereal to mail in for a toy. If you want a lobi prize, you either look for it on the exchange, or you offer to pay someone EC to buy the item you want with their lobi.)
Remember that there are some items you can ONLY get with Lobi. And some people like to get one for each of their characters. IE the space consoles/weapon items and group weapons.
And the only way they become less as important is if a person happens to get a large chunk of Lobi in one sitting. The items you get with the Lobi when aiming to open for Lobi for a Lobi ship in some cases are THE side product instead of opening for the items inside the boxes.
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I know people like to get EC ingame to buy there Mk XIV gear....
Why do people put it on therefore reasonable prices I mean a ship for 94.000.000 EC if you have to buy that with keys you have to sell almost 40 keys to get there ...
I don't want to complain but I just don't understand it what could it is to sell stuff that high because there is no one having that much stuff to sell to get the EC except if he or she is selling Ship upgrades, Fleet Ship Tokens or Keys....
Like to know what players think ?
Free enterprise and laws of supply and demand working as they should.
The simple truthful answer to the OP's question is "they are expensive to make."
Whether you are making crtd4 beams with crafting or making ships and plas leeches by opening boxes. The exchange price just reflects the cost to make the items.
No, not really.
Just from working on leveling and doing PVE queued events alone I end up with enough parts from that alone to be making MK II items all day long if I wanted to. And this is without pooling the resources from all my officers. The only time it gets expensive is when you are making the higher quality items as they take more parts which are harder to get. And there's only a few of those worth doing.
Even getting the DIlithium needed to upgrade or make the Level 15 RND items is easy to get.
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In addition to the cost to make the items, which as has been pointed out is not cheap in terms of resources or time, there is also the principle of "charge what the market will bear". If people are willing to pay a high price, why not charge it? The exchange has a kind of odd way of working in that people generally set their price by undercutting the current lowest offer, thereby in a way tying the price to the supply. The more of an item that gets put up, the cheaper it tends to get. But if a Lobi ship always gets snatched up as soon as it dips under about 95-100 mil, what idiot is going to offer it for 50? You aren't even being generous and giving a new player a chance to own the ship. It's just going to get flipped for the appropriate high price. I know I sure as hell flip anything I see listed under value.
That's not how it works, specifically. A weapon can only get one of four additional mods, dmg, acc, crtd, and crth.
So, once you have your acc3 weapon, you have a 1/4 chance of getting acc4.
Does anyone have data to confirm this? Someone else told me that the chance is 1/10 because an item can get one of the special crafting modifiers on upgrade.
if you think things are too expensive the simple answer is don't buy them, try gaining them the same way the seller did.
he's saying even that is exorbitantly high (40 keys = 40 bucks. I can get a good t6 ship for less). how did the seller get it: a lot of luck or real money.
On average it costs 50m EC to make a mk7 UR crtd4 beam array.
Stuff that isn't crtd4 costs a lot, lot less.
But the fact of the matter is, it costs a lot of EC to make the best stuff, which is the reason it costs a lot of ex on the exchange.
That'd be fixed if the mods were of equivalent value. That way, you wouldn't be making piles of vendor trash for every one sellable weapon. Part of it is just player perception of the value of various mods, but the numbers don't lie and [CrtD] is demonstrably superior in the current meta. Of course, we'll sooner see Al Rivera dress in a tutu and perform Swan Lake with William Shatner before they manage to make all those mods equally useful.
On average it costs 50m EC to make a mk7 UR crtd4 beam array.
Stuff that isn't crtd4 costs a lot, lot less.
But the fact of the matter is, it costs a lot of EC to make the best stuff, which is the reason it costs a lot of ex on the exchange.
Starting with MK II weapons I craft 5 at a time, I go do things so I am not sitting around waiting, while I am waiting to queue back up for something I collect my 5 items junk what is not worth selling and keep the rest. Requeue up another 5 items at MK II. Do more missions/queued events, all the while earning Dilithium needed later on to upgrade a weapon. My queued events also includes ground elite and space elites which I have a good track record and use MK XII gear on. So I already got myself a stock of Salvaged techs just from getting marks I need for the reps, no challenge there. I am also hitting a good spread making the rare parts needed to craft the parts for an experimental kit. So everything I get along the way is a by product of leveling up, getting spec tree points, and getting Fleet/rep marks.
No cost there to do this. The parts to make a MK II weapon, so easy to get even a level 15 who farms the scan points can craft themselves with easy.
Keep the crtdx2 pen and crtdx3, upgrade using an experimental kit, You can sell scrap mats you don't really need to get a 2x quality accelerator to get 20% upgrade chance and with 1700 dil (which you already made from getting your levels/tree points/marks) and you get 5 chances or so from one upgrade for an UR weapon. In almost any case, that UR weapon will be worth 8mill+ EC. And if you got super lucky to get an epic it goes up by another 5-10mill.
Pure profit. Everything is a by product of your daily routine of things? Tell me, where have I spent 50m to make these MK II weapons?
I have spent 1-2m to buy a stack of 999 mats needed to make the parts for MK II weapons and have ALWAYS come out with at least 1 if not 3-4 crtdx2 pen and crtdx3 weapons. Your point is flawed. I have been doing this since the RND system came out.
Does anyone have data to confirm this? Someone else told me that the chance is 1/10 because an item can get one of the special crafting modifiers on upgrade.
There are only 4 mods. However you're more likely to get a DMG or ACC mod than CRTH or even CRTD. I found CRTD to be about a 1 in 6 chance, with 1 crth, and DMG and ACC being about equal.
But this is upgrading them one after the next.
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There are only 4 mods. However you're more likely to get a DMG or ACC mod than CRTH or even CRTD. I found CRTD to be about a 1 in 6 chance, with 1 crth, and DMG and ACC being about equal.
But this is upgrading them one after the next.
How sure are you about that estimate of 1/6? How many items did you test?
There's a guy on Twitch, his name is Amaz. He plays HearthStone and every Friday he has an event. It's 12 wins in a row in Arena PvP or he buys 100 packs of cards (5 cards each, 100 Zen each pack.). If a guy like him can afford to spend 10.000 Zen every week on his favorite game due to his job's income and status, I bet there are players in Star Trek Online who can do the same. It's not a secret.
[SIGPIC] [/SIGPIC]
I will always choose a lazy person to do a difficult job...
Lobi ships on the exchange are a good deal, unless you happen to want to open $200 worth of lock boxes. Even then, you might prefer to spend your lobi on consoles like the Tachyokinetic Converter.
Lockbox ships are often a good deal a few weeks after the lockbox comes out. Now is a good time to get Xindi Olaen for example. It's a much better deal through the exchange if you just want that ship.
Yes, if you are willing to spend $400+ on lockboxes you'll probably turn a profit selling all of the contents including the 2 lobi ships, but you also have the work from putting all of those items on the exchange.
How sure are you about that estimate of 1/6? How many items did you test?
Very sure. I have made 2 full sets of crtdx4 UR beam arrays with 1 full set of dual beams.
I have 4 full sets of Beam array Epic weapons (crtdx3 pen) with 2 full sets of Dual beams.
For a total of 56 weapons that I have crafted in the last 4 months. Not including another 3 sets of beams and 3 of dbbs made prior to that 4 months and the multitude of sets I made on Tribble.
Now this doesn't include the weapons I upgrade which didn't get a mod as there was plenty that never upgraded, but of the ones that did upgrade my ratio from above is what I ended up with and an inventory full of UR/Epic weapons which many of my fleet hated me for my luck.
When you say "there is no cost to do this" you are just wrong. The cost you pay is not selling the things, because opportunity cost is real.
Crafting a crtd3 beam is earning 7m. Using it to gamble on crtd4 is spending 7m, it doesn't matter how you got the beam.
If you paid 7m for it on the exchange, you lost 7m EC that way. If you crafted it, you lost 7m by not selling it.
Opportunity cost is real, it actually is real.
It's a fundamental fact of truth.
There is a difference in opportunity and reality. Because the opportunity to make 200mill for being the first to post a MK XII or XIV Ultra Rare weapon was there when RND went live doesn't mean you lost 200m by not participating.
It just mean you didn't reap a benefit. You don't lose what you didn't get. This is called economics. You only lose what you have spent to get an item. If I spend 7m to buy a weapon and did nothing with it or gave it away that is when you lose. You buy a part worth 7mill, you drop some into it hoping to reap a positive result to flip or use. Even in the worst of cases you only add to the item in this game. I have never had an UR item drop below the initial cost. I have ALWAYS made a profit when I get an UR item. And when it didn't upgrade I resell it at a matching value. SO I lost zero on those cases.
When you upgrade and item you are not spending 7m. It never got bound to you. The only time you lose that 7mill is when you use the item. And even in those cases that depends on the value of the item to the person. When you get that perfect run of upgrades where you get UR and Epic even, that is a game changer for yourself, but you invested and won. The value of the item never goes away, unless you discard it of course. The only lost in cost is those items that are discard rather than resold. And you can always make back what you had spent, if any, instead of taking a hit on it.
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There is a difference in opportunity and reality. Because the opportunity to make 200mill for being the first to post a MK XII or XIV Ultra Rare weapon was there when RND went live doesn't mean you lost 200m by not participating.
It just mean you didn't reap a benefit. You don't lose what you didn't get. This is called economics. You only lose what you have spent to get an item. If I spend 7m to buy a weapon and did nothing with it or gave it away that is when you lose. You buy a part worth 7mill, you drop some into it hoping to reap a positive result to flip or use. Even in the worst of cases you only add to the item in this game. I have never had an UR item drop below the initial cost. I have ALWAYS made a profit when I get an UR item. And when it didn't upgrade I resell it at a matching value. SO I lost zero on those cases.
When you upgrade and item you are not spending 7m. It never got bound to you. The only time you lose that 7mill is when you use the item. And even in those cases that depends on the value of the item to the person. When you get that perfect run of upgrades where you get UR and Epic even, that is a game changer for yourself, but you invested and won. The value of the item never goes away, unless you discard it of course. The only lost in cost is those items that are discard rather than resold. And you can always make back what you had spent, if any, instead of taking a hit on it.
Loss of opportunity is still a cost. Take a real world example:
You are the owner of a small business with 5 employees. Each employee works 40 hrs/week, totaling 200 man hours of labor each week at a pay rate of $15/hr. You will pay $3,000/week in payroll nomatter what. You can make sure they're busy, and get your $3,000 worth, or you can let them TRIBBLE around on Facebook all day and lose it. That's obvious. What's less obvious whether the things you're having them do are a waste of time. If you have an employee spend 10 hours on a task, and that task ultimately is a waste and generates no revenue, you have lost an opportunity. You spent $150 and got nothing back, when you should have spent $150 and gotten something out of it even if it was just cleaning the shop or completing necessary paperwork. The loss occurred because you could have had that employee do something else which would have had value, but you didn't. You wasted the opportunity, and it cost you $150 of value. We have probably all been in a situation where we felt our boss was wasting our time and generating no value when there were other things to be done.
The same is true of a pile of crafting materials. They have a real market value, you could sell them as is and take your money. But, if you make something of them they can be worth more. If you craft a bunch of weapons and get a [CrtD]x3 you can sell for 7 million, you have gained 7 million minus the market value of the materials you spent getting there. Now again, you can cash out at 7 million and "realize" your gain. That's what you're talking about, realized gains. That's different than opportunity cost. Even a gain you haven't realized still has value though. When you buy stock and it goes up, you have gained. If you have stock and it goes down, you have lost. You can cash out and realize or not, but the gain or loss still happened.
A [CrtD]x3 beam has the potential to become [CrtD]x4. If you upgrade it and get [Dmg], that potential is now gone and the value is hurt. You have suffered a loss even if no money ever changed hands because the potential to make money is gone. Every time you make a choice, there is an opportunity cost in the choice you didn't make. When you make choices, you are doing it on the hope that you will gain something worth more than the lost opportunity. If you don't, well, you lose.
Sure if you ignore those 150 keys would generate 750 Lobi and other byproducts since we all know Lock Boxes are either a ship or nothing right?
All those other prizes net out.
There is no special box right now that will 100% pay out more then you spend opening it.
50/50 every box you open will have some junk booster worth 1/3 - 1/8th the EC cost of the key. + 4 lobi ... T6 Lobi ships are 900 lobi sell for around 90 mil, which is also a steal. It takes around 160 boxes on average to get 900 lobi which is around 400 mil.
The bottom line is the lockbox ships are less then a 1% chance to pull... everything else nets out for the most part. Yes some traits and a few of the other toys can make you more then the EC cost of a key... however weigh that against the copious amounts of junk you will pull and it really does net out.
You can buy keys with EC all day long, selling all the junk and cashing in a lobi ship every 800-900 lobi... and after a week you will have exactly the same amount of EC you started with. lol
The EC value of everything right now is pretty much exactly where it should be, with exception of the ships, they are a little undervalued in general. So I don't get the complaining about the grand prize costs, they are cheap.
Yeah, the prices of the ships, even the T6 ships have come way down from pre DR. They have come down in most cases over 100%
Only certain ultrarare items like leech and certain duty officers and super desirable mods are wickedly expensive and continuing to rise.
99.5% of stuff is now within reach with a little effort.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Thats not exactly true, before DR announcement prices wee rising ... Crafting kinda lowered the rising prices with DR kicking them in the pants.
Prices right now are about as high as last year and prices last year were higher that 2 years ago.
For ships? Many ships last summer were in the 200-300 million range. I waited out the xindi carrier until maybe september and got it for around 150 million. But there were quite a few ships still much higher until the T6's arrived.
For consoles and weapons it's a much different story (except for the #1 desired mod). For example the field generator purple 12 in September was 50 million. Now I can make it for nothing.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Yeah, the prices of the ships, even the T6 ships have come way down from pre DR. They have come down in most cases over 100%
Only certain ultrarare items like leech and certain duty officers and super desirable mods are wickedly expensive and continuing to rise.
99.5% of stuff is now within reach with a little effort.
Some of those T6 prices on the exchange are a damn steal, IMO. The Manassa Escort is still a mean customer with a wonderful trait. And it's in the lower half of lockbox/lobi ship prices on the exchange.
But one has to shop and know what the ships offer. There are some highly overrated ships selling for way more than they're worth. There's good ships going for bargain prices.
Comments
Remember that there are some items you can ONLY get with Lobi. And some people like to get one for each of their characters. IE the space consoles/weapon items and group weapons.
And the only way they become less as important is if a person happens to get a large chunk of Lobi in one sitting. The items you get with the Lobi when aiming to open for Lobi for a Lobi ship in some cases are THE side product instead of opening for the items inside the boxes.
Top DPS 102k
Free enterprise and laws of supply and demand working as they should.
No, not really.
Just from working on leveling and doing PVE queued events alone I end up with enough parts from that alone to be making MK II items all day long if I wanted to. And this is without pooling the resources from all my officers. The only time it gets expensive is when you are making the higher quality items as they take more parts which are harder to get. And there's only a few of those worth doing.
Even getting the DIlithium needed to upgrade or make the Level 15 RND items is easy to get.
Top DPS 102k
Does anyone have data to confirm this? Someone else told me that the chance is 1/10 because an item can get one of the special crafting modifiers on upgrade.
he's saying even that is exorbitantly high (40 keys = 40 bucks. I can get a good t6 ship for less). how did the seller get it: a lot of luck or real money.
That'd be fixed if the mods were of equivalent value. That way, you wouldn't be making piles of vendor trash for every one sellable weapon. Part of it is just player perception of the value of various mods, but the numbers don't lie and [CrtD] is demonstrably superior in the current meta. Of course, we'll sooner see Al Rivera dress in a tutu and perform Swan Lake with William Shatner before they manage to make all those mods equally useful.
Starting with MK II weapons I craft 5 at a time, I go do things so I am not sitting around waiting, while I am waiting to queue back up for something I collect my 5 items junk what is not worth selling and keep the rest. Requeue up another 5 items at MK II. Do more missions/queued events, all the while earning Dilithium needed later on to upgrade a weapon. My queued events also includes ground elite and space elites which I have a good track record and use MK XII gear on. So I already got myself a stock of Salvaged techs just from getting marks I need for the reps, no challenge there. I am also hitting a good spread making the rare parts needed to craft the parts for an experimental kit. So everything I get along the way is a by product of leveling up, getting spec tree points, and getting Fleet/rep marks.
No cost there to do this. The parts to make a MK II weapon, so easy to get even a level 15 who farms the scan points can craft themselves with easy.
Keep the crtdx2 pen and crtdx3, upgrade using an experimental kit, You can sell scrap mats you don't really need to get a 2x quality accelerator to get 20% upgrade chance and with 1700 dil (which you already made from getting your levels/tree points/marks) and you get 5 chances or so from one upgrade for an UR weapon. In almost any case, that UR weapon will be worth 8mill+ EC. And if you got super lucky to get an epic it goes up by another 5-10mill.
Pure profit. Everything is a by product of your daily routine of things? Tell me, where have I spent 50m to make these MK II weapons?
I have spent 1-2m to buy a stack of 999 mats needed to make the parts for MK II weapons and have ALWAYS come out with at least 1 if not 3-4 crtdx2 pen and crtdx3 weapons. Your point is flawed. I have been doing this since the RND system came out.
There are only 4 mods. However you're more likely to get a DMG or ACC mod than CRTH or even CRTD. I found CRTD to be about a 1 in 6 chance, with 1 crth, and DMG and ACC being about equal.
But this is upgrading them one after the next.
Top DPS 102k
I've also seen the special crafting modifiers appear on items that come from doff assignments.
How sure are you about that estimate of 1/6? How many items did you test?
...because he will find an easy way to do it.
-Bill Gates
Lobi ships on the exchange are a good deal, unless you happen to want to open $200 worth of lock boxes. Even then, you might prefer to spend your lobi on consoles like the Tachyokinetic Converter.
Lockbox ships are often a good deal a few weeks after the lockbox comes out. Now is a good time to get Xindi Olaen for example. It's a much better deal through the exchange if you just want that ship.
Yes, if you are willing to spend $400+ on lockboxes you'll probably turn a profit selling all of the contents including the 2 lobi ships, but you also have the work from putting all of those items on the exchange.
Very sure. I have made 2 full sets of crtdx4 UR beam arrays with 1 full set of dual beams.
I have 4 full sets of Beam array Epic weapons (crtdx3 pen) with 2 full sets of Dual beams.
For a total of 56 weapons that I have crafted in the last 4 months. Not including another 3 sets of beams and 3 of dbbs made prior to that 4 months and the multitude of sets I made on Tribble.
Now this doesn't include the weapons I upgrade which didn't get a mod as there was plenty that never upgraded, but of the ones that did upgrade my ratio from above is what I ended up with and an inventory full of UR/Epic weapons which many of my fleet hated me for my luck.
There is a difference in opportunity and reality. Because the opportunity to make 200mill for being the first to post a MK XII or XIV Ultra Rare weapon was there when RND went live doesn't mean you lost 200m by not participating.
It just mean you didn't reap a benefit. You don't lose what you didn't get. This is called economics. You only lose what you have spent to get an item. If I spend 7m to buy a weapon and did nothing with it or gave it away that is when you lose. You buy a part worth 7mill, you drop some into it hoping to reap a positive result to flip or use. Even in the worst of cases you only add to the item in this game. I have never had an UR item drop below the initial cost. I have ALWAYS made a profit when I get an UR item. And when it didn't upgrade I resell it at a matching value. SO I lost zero on those cases.
When you upgrade and item you are not spending 7m. It never got bound to you. The only time you lose that 7mill is when you use the item. And even in those cases that depends on the value of the item to the person. When you get that perfect run of upgrades where you get UR and Epic even, that is a game changer for yourself, but you invested and won. The value of the item never goes away, unless you discard it of course. The only lost in cost is those items that are discard rather than resold. And you can always make back what you had spent, if any, instead of taking a hit on it.
Top DPS 102k
Loss of opportunity is still a cost. Take a real world example:
You are the owner of a small business with 5 employees. Each employee works 40 hrs/week, totaling 200 man hours of labor each week at a pay rate of $15/hr. You will pay $3,000/week in payroll nomatter what. You can make sure they're busy, and get your $3,000 worth, or you can let them TRIBBLE around on Facebook all day and lose it. That's obvious. What's less obvious whether the things you're having them do are a waste of time. If you have an employee spend 10 hours on a task, and that task ultimately is a waste and generates no revenue, you have lost an opportunity. You spent $150 and got nothing back, when you should have spent $150 and gotten something out of it even if it was just cleaning the shop or completing necessary paperwork. The loss occurred because you could have had that employee do something else which would have had value, but you didn't. You wasted the opportunity, and it cost you $150 of value. We have probably all been in a situation where we felt our boss was wasting our time and generating no value when there were other things to be done.
The same is true of a pile of crafting materials. They have a real market value, you could sell them as is and take your money. But, if you make something of them they can be worth more. If you craft a bunch of weapons and get a [CrtD]x3 you can sell for 7 million, you have gained 7 million minus the market value of the materials you spent getting there. Now again, you can cash out at 7 million and "realize" your gain. That's what you're talking about, realized gains. That's different than opportunity cost. Even a gain you haven't realized still has value though. When you buy stock and it goes up, you have gained. If you have stock and it goes down, you have lost. You can cash out and realize or not, but the gain or loss still happened.
A [CrtD]x3 beam has the potential to become [CrtD]x4. If you upgrade it and get [Dmg], that potential is now gone and the value is hurt. You have suffered a loss even if no money ever changed hands because the potential to make money is gone. Every time you make a choice, there is an opportunity cost in the choice you didn't make. When you make choices, you are doing it on the hope that you will gain something worth more than the lost opportunity. If you don't, well, you lose.
All those other prizes net out.
There is no special box right now that will 100% pay out more then you spend opening it.
50/50 every box you open will have some junk booster worth 1/3 - 1/8th the EC cost of the key. + 4 lobi ... T6 Lobi ships are 900 lobi sell for around 90 mil, which is also a steal. It takes around 160 boxes on average to get 900 lobi which is around 400 mil.
The bottom line is the lockbox ships are less then a 1% chance to pull... everything else nets out for the most part. Yes some traits and a few of the other toys can make you more then the EC cost of a key... however weigh that against the copious amounts of junk you will pull and it really does net out.
You can buy keys with EC all day long, selling all the junk and cashing in a lobi ship every 800-900 lobi... and after a week you will have exactly the same amount of EC you started with. lol
The EC value of everything right now is pretty much exactly where it should be, with exception of the ships, they are a little undervalued in general. So I don't get the complaining about the grand prize costs, they are cheap.
Only certain ultrarare items like leech and certain duty officers and super desirable mods are wickedly expensive and continuing to rise.
99.5% of stuff is now within reach with a little effort.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Make sure you have enough ec space in your bank before you begin.
For ships? Many ships last summer were in the 200-300 million range. I waited out the xindi carrier until maybe september and got it for around 150 million. But there were quite a few ships still much higher until the T6's arrived.
For consoles and weapons it's a much different story (except for the #1 desired mod). For example the field generator purple 12 in September was 50 million. Now I can make it for nothing.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Some of those T6 prices on the exchange are a damn steal, IMO. The Manassa Escort is still a mean customer with a wonderful trait. And it's in the lower half of lockbox/lobi ship prices on the exchange.
But one has to shop and know what the ships offer. There are some highly overrated ships selling for way more than they're worth. There's good ships going for bargain prices.
Will you share this wisdom and enlighten the uninformed?