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risingwolfshadow
Member Posts: 619 Arc User
I know this is general discussion but seeing as it'd involve everyone I thought the general forum would be appropriate.
During the years that I've played this game, the biggest excuses that people have had to stay out of PvP is: "It's too elitist!", "I don't like people's attitude" and finally "I tried it once and I got spawn camped and said to myself, not again!".
I'd like to make it clear that I have experienced these and I agree that it's not nice. Regarding spawn-camping, I have no respect for anyone that does it and if that's what people need to actually make a kill by attacking an opponent who's just re-spawned is sad and you should learn how to fight properly and respectfully.
Regarding the other two, simply put, most of the elite have left. The gear they had is outdated. The elite in the game now are the people who have only been doing PvE all this time. They may not have the skill that PvP veterans had but their gear is probably far superior because all they've done is grind and create dps tanks. Anyone who fits the profile I've just described, with a little tweaking and reading the PvP help forums would put up an epic fight with any veteran PvPer. A little humility and recognition that some will be better than you will also go along way to improving quickly. Most PvPers will be willing to share tips and tricks with you I'm sure, if you ask politely and humbly (no one likes a sore loser, or an idiotic winner for that matter!).
The tittle of this thread is open-world PvP, so I'll get to that now.
Allowing people to free roam sector space in a 'PvP mode" would greatly improve PvP. Instead of private matching someone and going to a map everyone is bored of. Allow players of an opposite faction to challenge someone in sector space when they get within a certain distance of their target and start an attack, but instead of doing damage in sector space (because that would be stupid), both get warped into the nearest system. Perhaps even allow teams to do it but obviously a team of 5v1 is highly unfair so perhaps restrict it to only allow a team of 2 to attack a single player and allow the player being attacked to call for help from a fleet member or friend.
A reward to start off with could be; if you have 5 open PvP matches, you can refine an extra 1000 dilithium as well as rewarding dilithium for each match. Everyone would jump at the chance to refine extra dilithium and with hardcore and fairly stubborn PvEers having the ultra rare and epic gear, because grind and PvE is all they do, the elite/veteran PvPers (of which there are 5! Probably), would have to work quite hard to beat them.
If this were to get popular perhaps later on include other types of PvP and give it more attention.
There are so many maps available for patrol missions and such, so why not use them for open PvP. Giving people rewards for attacking someone of equal level and gear, and giving people that are attacked by idiots who can't pick someone of equal high level/gear/skill a higher dilithium reward for each match especially if they loose to keep them interested in open-world PvP.
To conclude, I would like to say thank you for reading this long and boring thread and I hope that you put down your thoughts and comments. I'll happily accept any constructive criticism but please be polite.
Star-Lord@risingwolfshadow
During the years that I've played this game, the biggest excuses that people have had to stay out of PvP is: "It's too elitist!", "I don't like people's attitude" and finally "I tried it once and I got spawn camped and said to myself, not again!".
I'd like to make it clear that I have experienced these and I agree that it's not nice. Regarding spawn-camping, I have no respect for anyone that does it and if that's what people need to actually make a kill by attacking an opponent who's just re-spawned is sad and you should learn how to fight properly and respectfully.
Regarding the other two, simply put, most of the elite have left. The gear they had is outdated. The elite in the game now are the people who have only been doing PvE all this time. They may not have the skill that PvP veterans had but their gear is probably far superior because all they've done is grind and create dps tanks. Anyone who fits the profile I've just described, with a little tweaking and reading the PvP help forums would put up an epic fight with any veteran PvPer. A little humility and recognition that some will be better than you will also go along way to improving quickly. Most PvPers will be willing to share tips and tricks with you I'm sure, if you ask politely and humbly (no one likes a sore loser, or an idiotic winner for that matter!).
The tittle of this thread is open-world PvP, so I'll get to that now.
Allowing people to free roam sector space in a 'PvP mode" would greatly improve PvP. Instead of private matching someone and going to a map everyone is bored of. Allow players of an opposite faction to challenge someone in sector space when they get within a certain distance of their target and start an attack, but instead of doing damage in sector space (because that would be stupid), both get warped into the nearest system. Perhaps even allow teams to do it but obviously a team of 5v1 is highly unfair so perhaps restrict it to only allow a team of 2 to attack a single player and allow the player being attacked to call for help from a fleet member or friend.
A reward to start off with could be; if you have 5 open PvP matches, you can refine an extra 1000 dilithium as well as rewarding dilithium for each match. Everyone would jump at the chance to refine extra dilithium and with hardcore and fairly stubborn PvEers having the ultra rare and epic gear, because grind and PvE is all they do, the elite/veteran PvPers (of which there are 5! Probably), would have to work quite hard to beat them.
If this were to get popular perhaps later on include other types of PvP and give it more attention.
There are so many maps available for patrol missions and such, so why not use them for open PvP. Giving people rewards for attacking someone of equal level and gear, and giving people that are attacked by idiots who can't pick someone of equal high level/gear/skill a higher dilithium reward for each match especially if they loose to keep them interested in open-world PvP.
To conclude, I would like to say thank you for reading this long and boring thread and I hope that you put down your thoughts and comments. I'll happily accept any constructive criticism but please be polite.
Star-Lord@risingwolfshadow
Post edited by risingwolfshadow on
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It'll provide an interesting change from the borefest of PvE, offers an incentive to PvP, and is optional, so the people that have mental breakdowns over having snowballs thrown at their toons can keep the tears to themselves.
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Equal point: Are you too scared/totally lack the skill to go against something that doesn't just sit there and absorb your damage? (EDIT: In case this was unclear, the tone of this is in response to the tone of the message I am quoting).
That argument goes both ways.
If there is a clearly flagged option where you can turn it on and off, what's the problem? What's the problem with offering a unique award (and desirable) reward for a different play style?
Don't want the reward? Don't play ithat game type. Simple as that. Just like if you don't want Marks/Reputation, you don't have to play the Queues/Battle zones.
You wouldn't be forced into it, you'd be flying around with a PvP option enabled. Don't want to engage in PvP? Turn your PvP flag off.
But what of ground and non-sector space? A blank version of the social map may work. Personally, my main reason for not wanting open PvP is my experience that PvPers who can fight anywhere tend to pick the most popular social zones and spam their biggest attacks all over the place. Memories of Dunbarton lag... could hardly step foot near the place. Imagine open ground PvP in DS9...
I typically find that whenever a large portion of a playerbase gives reasons why they dislike something, ignoring it because I happen to think differently rarely works out.
I would make sure any suggestions you have ensure that the above 'excuses', as you put them, are not a product of your idea.
Is this a toggle? That is, if someone wishes to engage in this PVP, they have a flag they turn on, and that ONLY they can turn on?
For this to work, there cannot be any nonsense:
I fear that anything that violates the sharp time-reward metrics Cryptic has implemented will be ... unlikely. Additionally, the setup and changes to programming would not be insubstantial -- they would need to see interest in the idea.
This is going to be the sticking point.
If you allow cross-level attacks to work, someone is going to end up butthurt. It might be better to only allow players to attack in level bands (10-20, 21-30, 31-50, 50 up). Otherwise, given the gap between a level 60 and say a level 20, you wouldn't even have farming so much as fishing.
Yeah yeah, same "we the arrogant pvp noob murdering spawn campers demand the right to spawn camp and noob murder everywhere, with auto opt in and hard to find opt out system we asked for last week, now with big prizes for murdering noobs and spawn camping" thread, yet again.
The answer is just... NO...
Can't you pvp people take a massive fugging hint? The fact that the majority avoid pvp like the plague, would strongly suggest that they do not want to pvp with you, ever.
They do not want to be spawn camped, they do not want to be 'challenge ambushed' while flying around on their own business. They don't want to be one-shotted from behind by a cloaked scimitard so some pvp-hero 4th class can earn easy kill points and be a pvp-hero 3rd class.
You want more pvp, go challenge the pvp-hero 1st class league members.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
Jump off of your high "I AM PVE HERO, I AM THE ONE TO BE CATERED TO!" horse for a moment and consider his proposal; Open World PvP would be an optional, opt-in mode.
Can't you PvE heroes "take a massive fugging hint"? STO is stagnant. Grind is increasing, content is diminishing. We need new life, game modes, and fresh air in the game.
Calm down, Mr 'I DON'T WANT IT, SO THEREFORE YOU CAN'T HAVE IT!'
What came first, STO's abhorrent attitude to PvP, game imbalance, or PvE heroes running like the plague from the slightest challenge?
Hint: Around Season 1.2 up until about Season 6, there was decent balance and a big PvP community. But then LoR brought around massive amounts of power creep, and the population declined from around Season 4 on, thanks to Cryptic's lying about developing new content for PvP. So you tell me what lead to the current atmosphere.
Hey newbie, want to have a fun duel? Turn your flag on so we can. Oh, I forgot to mention I've got four buddies. What just happened to you is called getting vaped. Thanks for the extra dil!
it's not the PvE crowd that needs to take a hint. It's Cryptic.
STO Screenshot Archive
Hey new guy, want to run an ISA or something? K, awesome. I'm gonna go AFK for the whole time while you do it all for me/I'm going to TBR drag the Spheres into the Transformer. Hope you enjoy the cooldown!
Yeah, there might be some griefing - but it's not unique to PvP, and it would be up to Cryptic to find a way to limit that. Not the players. We're not the ones getting paid to develop a game here.
The best and most reliable way to limit it is not to implement it.
1) Dil farmer makes a free second/third/fourth/etc account.
2) Flies new account to where their other account is.
3) PvP's themselves.
4) Gets free dil.
5) Repeat 1-4 with different winners until all accounts at the daily refine cap...
6) Economy crashes.
tlhIngan maH taHjaj!
Penfold shush! You're giving away his secret plan to increase his daily refining cap.
So in order to prevent a something that may happen to a few people, we should just not do something that could be fun for a lot of people?
Hmmm...
With that logic, maybe they should just never bring back Elite queues, since people are having trouble with Advanced ones as it is.
Or maybe keep the level grind, since average player skill isn't high enough to complete Advanced/Elite content.
Perhaps even restrict all new FEs to level 60, to prevent people from being frustrated at the difficulty of it?
I don't understand what's so difficult to understand here - if you don't want it, don't participate in it. Why deprive others of the opportunity to, just because it's not your cup of tea? Most people generally are not the biggest fan of Ground combat, but you don't see masses going around screaming "GROUND SUX, I DON'T LIKE IT. NO MORE GROUND STFs OR FEs!"
Not a pvp hero, just somebody playing a damn game in anattempt to have fun, who dislikes pro-pvp-bigots consatantly telling me my fun isn't important unless it involves being shot at by them.
Considered and rejected pvp as any kind of fun years ago, based on the attitudes of people like... Well, you, to be frank.
You think introducing your minority sport, despite the majority not wanting it, and insulting said majority into the bargain, will reverse stagnation? How exactly? By driving those of us who dislike open pvp, off the game entirely?
"This game is stagnant, lets drive 90% of the players offline so we can murder noobs in an exciting vibrate way"
Fun observation.
SWTOR has 2 kinds of servers... pve servers and pvp servers.
Despite having their own dedicated open pvp servers to play on, pvp players STILL log into pve servers and spam chat with challenges.
Why is that? Could it be some manic need to wave their digital peckers to prove how web-tough they are?
Oh... FYI, it's not Mister, it's MISS, yup thats right, I don't have a TRIBBLE to wave, digital or otherwise.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
You yourself pointed out Cryptic is singularly incompetent and untrustworthy when it comes to implementing PvP content. Yet we are supposed to be excited by this?
Please stop letting your mouth outrun your brain. While I certainly agree the post by demonicaesthetic was composed almost entirely of derp, yours was no better.
Again, the only thing the OP is suggesting is
1) Moving from right clicking on 'challenge' and going to a private map to streamlining the entire process with a flag that you turn on and
2) engineering rewards.
I have strong reservations, not because I dislike PvP, but because PvP has NEVER ressurrected any game, has wrecked more than one MMO, and because Cryptic has no clue how to balance things for it now with all the various PvE expansions.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that others don't - and you don't have to participate in it. You're playing the game to have fun, so are others. And some of those like playing against other players.
Why deprive others of the opportunity to do what they enjoy? Why deprive others of something new? Why deprive others of some new rewards, just because A) you don't like it
What is so inherently wrong with new options? Options that aren't required to complete anything else in the game.
And apologies on the Mr comment, I just assumed
Ah, pot. Would you like to meet Mr. Kettle here?
If you are so rabidly hateful of PvP why even bother to participate in the discussion? It's not like Cyrptic has bothered to implement even a single blasted suggestion made or even bothered to respond to any of the suggestions in years.
Perhaps you just like flaming and bashing people? Waving your own epeen?
"Toggle open world PvP" as in, it's optional, you can choose to be in open PvP or not.
I'd say they're utterly incompetent at balance and following through on their promises - but we've yet to see how they would be with implementation, since there hasn't been any of that to judge against.
I'd assume that it wouldn't be too difficult to implement a basic system to prevent griefing on a massive scale. Maybe a "ranking system", where your team (or yourself) is given a specific rank value, and you can only Open challenge people of a similar ranking range?
Agreed, it should be opt-IN, not opt-OUT.
It would help prevent any inadvertent action where it's not wanted.
I've watched the rabid-pvp people destroy game servers too many times. It's always the same group, not the genuinely skilled top of the league types looking for a fair, honourable and challenging match, it's always the 3rd and 4th raters who cant cut it with the big boys, and see noob murder and spawn camping as perfectly acceptable.
A couple of weeks ago, we had a suggestion for auto-opt- in on char creation open pvp in ESD.
Including the suggestion that the first 5 of the 6-10 instances should be auto-opt-in open pvp "if you want to opt out change instance"
Today we get insulted by somebody who wants to impose an unneeded mechanic into the game so a minority can make free loot, murdering gullible noobs.
If they WANT to challenge random strangers in sector space, they already can, right click, select 'challenge' from the context menu, it really is that easy.
But it seems that isn't good enough, the challenged party might refuse, so, hey lets 'un-stagnate' the game by making the place open pvp.
Doesn't the fact that the majority of players do not pvp, suggest the majority of players do not WANT to pvp?
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
If people aren't doing enough PVP for your tastes, does it not occur to you that maybe it's because they don't want to?
I mean, I'm not a gamer, really, I'm a Trekkie - and something tells me that's true of quite a few people who play Star Trek Online. Me, I'm happy zooming around in my pretend spaceship, playing at being Jim Kirk or a poor relation thereof. What I'd like to see more of, is a chance to get the feeling of being in the old TV show. And maybe my memory is failing me, but I just don't remember any episode where Kirk spent the whole of the show crouched behind a barrel ganking n00bz as they beamed in.
Despite the drop in community, there are still enough to get a good number of matches in daily.
My point in that statement was that STO sorely needs new PvP content - we've been using the same 3 maps since Launch, and we've even inexplicably lost a game mode.
Adding in Open World would be an unprecedented boon to PvP, while leaving PvE completely unaffected.