At every tier up to rear admiral you get a choice of a cruiser, escort or sci ship free, except the last ship you get free which you get a choce of an escort, a cruiser or one of THREE sci ships ......
Sci ships actually have MORE free option than cruiser and escorts (fed side that is I know very little about Kline side)
T2 Science Vessel
T3 Research Science Vessel
T4 Long Range Science Vessel
T5 Deep Space Science Vessel / Reconnaissance Science Vessel
Sure if you're fed. For roms you get a tier 2 that's sci, tier 3 that's sci and then that's it.
KDF, if you want a sci ship before 40, you're pumping out some Zen. So if he's talking about his KDF toon, then he's absolutely correct.
Only work around is to fly BoP which have universal seating so you can create a sci BoP if you so chose.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
no doubt that it is bad game design that certain combinations are much harder than others and that they do not even indicate the increased difficulty...however it exists currently in the game, and if cryptic chose to "balance" it this way...it is their game after all.
Also, I think they specifically mentioned it one time somewhere that klingons simply don't care for science!
Romulans neither apparently.
So it can be a canon issue...and very much intended.
no, because then the career-option wouldn't be there in the first place . If you can make a KDF science-captain then they need to make sure you have the choice of ship .Else you might as well remove that career-option ...
The argument isn't valid in the "canon " sense either ( think Orions and their traits )
Ha'nom Guardian Warbird. There's also the Mirror Ha'nom. They used to be real cheap on the exchange but I haven't looked them up in ages.
Regardless of which of the 2 you get, they are old school, Science Heavy BOFF layouts. In today's game, that's actually very good. Secondary Deflectors, Sensor Analysis, and an underrated Romulan Battle Cloak capability. Only the Rom DSDs have that Rom Battle Cloak.
Rom Battle Cloak decloak damage bonus is not to be trifled with. I can get my Warbirds to have roughly these ambush values coming out of cloaks:
+45% Damage Bonus
15-23 second bonus duration*
Roughly 9 second cloak recharge timer
There is no Attack Pattern in the game with that level of potency, that level of uptime, that level of availability. It is built into every Warbird but the Temporal ships. And for Romulan Science play, that's very good.
* = Achieved by having, regardless of source, Infiltrator+Superior Infiltrator. Whether you get that arrangement from a BOFF or from a Reman Captain, it doesn't matter. Infiltrator Traits of the same rarity don't stack. For my Reman Captain, typically she has Infiltrator Trait equipped and one of the old Delta BOFFs has SRO+Sup Infiltrator. That is a Win-Win. My Romulans could do the same but it's not as efficient. It usually means sacrificing a BOFF with SRO to have either Infiltrator or Superior Infiltrator to get the combo. I typically don't give up SRO for a Romulan captain. So my Romulan captains "only" have to settle for 15 second Decloak Damage Bonus duration. All while my KDF on a BOP can achieve max 5 second standard duration for about 15% damage bonus on roughly 16-18 second recloak timer.
yep, the Ha'nom is one of the best science vessels in the entire game, regardless of faction . I specifically made a Reman science captain - now level 20 - for that ship ( unfortunately I have to use the Mor'gai warbird and similar stuff until I reach that level...) . Might even fork over zen to get the retrofit or fleet version of that ship when that time arrives .Think it's probably better than the Dyson science destroyer , but haven't really checked yet ...
no, because then the career-option wouldn't be there in the first place . If you can make a KDF science-captain then they need to make sure you have the choice of ship
You can fly Raptor, Battle Cruiser, Bird of Prey or Carrier. Those are 4 choices every Klingon Science Captain has.
Your career choice does not lock you into a ship choice. You need to accept the simple truth: Your career choice supplements your ship choice, it does not mandate what ship you have to fly.
Not a single space skill is dependent on your career choice. You can rank up Particle Generators as Engineer, Tactical Captain or Science Captain. You can rank up energy weapons training as Engineer, Tactical or Science Captain.
Only on the ground does your career choice define what kind of kits and kit modules you have, and what kind of skills you can train.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Neither the KDF nor Romulans have Cruisers or Escorts.
So people get terminology wrong, sue them.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Neither the KDF nor Romulans have Cruisers or Escorts.
Totally off topic, but...
Isn't Saying "battlecruisers aren't cruisers" and (as cryptic has started calling them) "raptor/escorts aren't escorts" really a "squares are not rectangles" type argument?
At level 30 as a Federation aligned Romulan you have an option to choose the Intrepid. At 40 you can choose the Romulan Ha'nom warbird. The Ha'nom is the last free option open to you.
At level 30 as a Federation aligned Romulan you have an option to choose the Intrepid. At 40 you can choose the Romulan Ha'nom warbird. The Ha'nom is the last free option open to you.
Bit of advice for you OP: The type of ship you fly (Science, Tactical, Engineering) has nothing to do with your Captain's career.
Any captain can fly any type of ship, each combination brings certain advantages and disadvantages.
This hits the button, right on the head, as the only real need of a sci vessel, is either that is what you want/like/prefer and/or, you invested heavily in sci only skills for yourself and, your boffs/gear.
I wanted a sci officer. I have an eng with cruisers, and tact with escorts.
Why do they leave the sci officers without the appropriate ship requisitions? Why create a line of ships that you can't get any rank up requisitions at all?
This hits the button, right on the head, as the only real need of a sci vessel, is either that is what you want/like/prefer and/or, you invested heavily in sci only skills for yourself and, your boffs/gear.
Otherwise, you can make use of ANY ship!!!
that's BS argument as well ( next....) because that implies there only needs to be ONE ship in entire game ( also say goodbye to Cryptic's main source of revenue then ) . Point is FED gets the choice at every 10th level ( cruiser, escort, science ) from 10-40 while KDF and Romulans don't .It's as simple as that . If you do one, you do all...
Else remove the career options ( also not very wise though) .Saying the presence of a secondary deflector has no impact is also dodgy ...
I wanted a sci officer. I have an eng with cruisers, and tact with escorts.
Why do they leave the sci officers without the appropriate ship requisitions? Why create a line of ships that you can't get any rank up requisitions at all?
you're missing the point. There is no "appropriate" ship type for a science officer. they can fly any type of ships.
It's the same for Tactical captains. Just because they are Tactical does not mean that escorts are "appropriate" for them.
Same for Engineers, they are not exclusive to Cruisers.
Any Captain career can fly any type of ship.
The title of this thread is " Why the hell do sci offs have to pay for sci ships?!", let me tell you that if you had made a tactical or engineer, you would still had to pay for a science ship.
Let me make this clear for you for the last time: Science Captains have no special association with Science ships. There is nothing in the game that say certain types of captains should fly certain types of ships. In fact the game encourages you to try out different types of ships.
Also people in this thread have already pointed out where you can get science ships.
At level 30 as a Federation aligned Romulan you have an option to choose the Intrepid. At 40 you can choose the Romulan Ha'nom warbird. The Ha'nom is the last free option open to you.
That is all.
/endthread
Nope. Although Romulans can use tier 4 or lower ships of their allied faction, for the free ships fed/kdf get while leveling up Romulans have to pay dilithium to obtain. But if you have any T4 or lower fed/kdf ships purchased in the c-store you can claim those for free.
The main problem with Romulans is that level 40 is the only time you get a choice of a science ship, the Ha'nom Guardian Warbird. The Fleet Ha'nom, along with the Fleet Ha'apax and Fleet Ha'feh, require a starbase with military and shipyard tier 5. Always baffled me why the fleet versions of the ships you get for free at level 40 require such a high tiered fleet shipyard to obtain.
The only other choices for Romulan science ships:
Mirror Ha'nom Guardian Warbird (lock box; or buy in the exchange)
Aves Dyson Science Destroyer (2014 anniversary ship; currently obtained from lobi store)
R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel (lock box; or buy from the exchange)
The 3 Dyson ships in the c-store
That's all they have for T5 Romulan science ships. The Mirror Ha'non is the only one of those that is Romulan styled in appearance.
No T6 science vessels (at least not yet). So all you get is 1 free ship at level 40 while leveling up and a fleet version of that ship that requires a maxed tiered fleet shipyard.
Nope. Although Romulans can use tier 4 or lower ships of their allied faction, for the free ships fed/kdf get while leveling up Romulans have to pay dilithium to obtain. But if you have any T4 or lower fed/kdf ships purchased in the c-store you can claim those for free.
The main problem with Romulans is that level 40 is the only time you get a choice of a science ship, the Ha'nom Guardian Warbird. The Fleet Ha'nom, along with the Fleet Ha'apax and Fleet Ha'feh, require a starbase with military and shipyard tier 5. Always baffled me why the fleet versions of the ships you get for free at level 40 require such a high tiered fleet shipyard to obtain.
The only other choices for Romulan science ships:
Mirror Ha'nom Guardian Warbird (lock box; or buy in the exchange)
Aves Dyson Science Destroyer (2014 anniversary ship; currently obtained from lobi store)
R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel (lock box; or buy from the exchange)
The 3 Dyson ships in the c-store
That's all they have for T5 Romulan science ships. The Mirror Ha'non is the only one of those that is Romulan styled in appearance.
Actually, nowadays, the dyson destroyers can use all hull materials of their faction, so they can be made to look completey Romulan/Fed/KDF (dependent on your faction.)
I think the problem the Romulans is that they can't make any "organic" science vessel character builds, since they only can get an SV towards endgame (for free), when you already spend most of your skill points.
But is that a big problem? There aren't any carriers below Tier 5 either, so you can't "grow" into them either
.
A Fed or Rom-Fed Captain can never fly an all-universal BOFF ship like the BOP, no matter how much money or Dilithium he would be able to spend. (And Rom-KDF must stop doing it at endgame).
I think it is not a bad feature that different factions have acces to certain special ship types that not everyone can have. It sets the factions more apart.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Actually, nowadays, the dyson destroyers can use all hull materials of their faction, so they can be made to look completey Romulan/Fed/KDF (dependent on your faction.)
I think the problem the Romulans is that they can't make any "organic" science vessel character builds, since they only can get an SV towards endgame (for free), when you already spend most of your skill points.
But is that a big problem? There aren't any carriers below Tier 5 either, so you can't "grow" into them either
.
A Fed or Rom-Fed Captain can never fly an all-universal BOFF ship like the BOP, no matter how much money or Dilithium he would be able to spend. (And Rom-KDF must stop doing it at endgame).
I think it is not a bad feature that different factions have acces to certain special ship types that not everyone can have. It sets the factions more apart.
we're talking about free ships though ( not lockbox ,dilithium or zen-purchased stuff ) ,the ones you get with the token ...
Having said that : the vo'quv carrier ( which you get with a token at lvl 40 and which is unique and marvelous ship ) could easily be transformed into a full-fledged sci-ship and my toons use it as such most of the time anyway . What they could do is move some of the lvl 10-30 KDF/ROM ships from zenstore to shipyard and make them sci-ships ( designing new ones would be far too expensive I think, and I highly doubt sales for level 10-30 would be impacted that much ) ,purchasable with tokens
Looking at the ship requisitions selections for my (edit: Romulan, fed 32 commander) sci officer I just realized that EVERY SINGLE science ship is obtained by dilithium or Zen! (edit: used the filters on the ship store to show nothing but sci ships for every rank, and nothing came up post commander that was a free requisition).
Why must my sci officer be forced to use an escort or a cruiser? Does this company really expect someone to have 30/80k dilithium starting out??
I was only "fortunate" to have the free retrofit one they gave several weeks ago but that doesn't last long with just two science slots and two science boff slots that just have two ranks in them as you reach commander>capt status.
Let's review the Romulans (and only the Romulan, not their "allied access") ships:
T1 - generic light cruiser like the rest of them.
T2 - Destroyer (tactical type build).
T3 - Escort / Raptor / borderline destroyer mk II.
T4 - Cruiser.
T5 - due to being the "last" freebie ship, you're given full access to the "trinity" of Sci / Escort / Cruiser.
So, even the Tacticals (stuffed in cruiser for T4) and Engineers (T2 & 3) aren't getting a "class appropriate" freebie ship at every level. Especially in light of the fact that the Rommie level up token can't buy an allied access ship.
Seems to me that the Republic's levelling progression was designed to showcase at least a touch of "everything under the sun". Even though Science was left out of the equation.
Unless you accept the occasionally posted viewpoint of "Singularity powers = Science". Then there's science on every warbird... :P
Also, would anyone care or "recognize" the differences between Science and Destroyer at T2 - which would be the "appropriate" level for a Science type ship to be illustrated instead of the tactical-heavy destroyer?
Additionally please note, that this matches, 100% the KDF's "freebie Science progression". Actually exceeds it, because the KDF's T5 Science is "paygated" behind the C-store. Unless you count the Vo'Quv carrier's Cmdr Sci as a "science" option. Then it's 100% match for sure.
And if you haven't been looking ahead, let me fill you in on one of the worst kept secrets of Romulan "endgame worthy" Science ships. Specifically the fact that the lineup consists of:
Aforementioned T5 Freebie.
T5.5 Fleet Variant of the Freebie.
T5.5 Dyson bundle.
Usual assortment of Lockbox / Lobi stuffs. (Temporal, Orb Weaver, Voth, etc.)
Also, this is a 100% match to the KDF's "non carrier" Science lineup.
Welcome to the wonderful world of non-Fed Sciences...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
If you do get an aligned ship (FED or KDF) or use a C-Store ship at a lower level, check you overflow bag for Ship Tokens and if you go to use them, you may have to dismiss the aligned ship to claim the Romulan one.
you tested this ? that's no good .... for Rom I'm seriously wondering then what the point of alligning yourself with a faction is .
You can NOT get a sci ship requisition AT ALL. There is NO choice.
You MUST pay at a minimum out of your character's wallet, which for 80k dilithium, I think you would outlevel the tier before getting that much.
There are so many replies in this thread that have absolutely nothing to do with what I am talking about.
folks mistake ship-availability with the free-ship tokens , that's the problem ...
this thread is solely about the latter : you get a free ship token at every 10th level and what can you use that for . We're not talking about ec-ships, dilithium ships, ships in lockboxes or ships on exchange ..
The Haakona Science Warbird is a free T5, as multiple people have stated over and over again, your post is wrong, period.
He's not talking about a free T5, he's talking about roms not having free sci boats at t2-t4.
<center><font size="+5"><b>Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day... Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
Let me make this clear for you for the last time: Science Captains have no special association with Science ships. There is nothing in the game that say certain types of captains should fly certain types of ships. In fact the game encourages you to try out different types of ships.
To throw more fuel into the fire, I'll go on to say Science Captains have no business in Science Vessels. Tactical Captains do :cool:
Comments
Sure if you're fed. For roms you get a tier 2 that's sci, tier 3 that's sci and then that's it.
KDF, if you want a sci ship before 40, you're pumping out some Zen. So if he's talking about his KDF toon, then he's absolutely correct.
Only work around is to fly BoP which have universal seating so you can create a sci BoP if you so chose.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
no, because then the career-option wouldn't be there in the first place . If you can make a KDF science-captain then they need to make sure you have the choice of ship .Else you might as well remove that career-option ...
The argument isn't valid in the "canon " sense either ( think Orions and their traits )
yep, the Ha'nom is one of the best science vessels in the entire game, regardless of faction . I specifically made a Reman science captain - now level 20 - for that ship ( unfortunately I have to use the Mor'gai warbird and similar stuff until I reach that level...) . Might even fork over zen to get the retrofit or fleet version of that ship when that time arrives .Think it's probably better than the Dyson science destroyer , but haven't really checked yet ...
Your career choice does not lock you into a ship choice. You need to accept the simple truth: Your career choice supplements your ship choice, it does not mandate what ship you have to fly.
Not a single space skill is dependent on your career choice. You can rank up Particle Generators as Engineer, Tactical Captain or Science Captain. You can rank up energy weapons training as Engineer, Tactical or Science Captain.
Only on the ground does your career choice define what kind of kits and kit modules you have, and what kind of skills you can train.
Posts like this are what start flame wars refrain.Grow up kiddie.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Again, what else would the OP be talking about?
Neither the KDF nor Romulans have Cruisers or Escorts.
Even more so, I have no money so I can not buy my way into a C-store ship.
My character at 32 can't buy his way into a dilithium ship.
So people get terminology wrong, sue them.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Totally off topic, but...
Isn't Saying "battlecruisers aren't cruisers" and (as cryptic has started calling them) "raptor/escorts aren't escorts" really a "squares are not rectangles" type argument?
That is all.
/endthread
Oh really?...
http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a633/ITPalg/Star%20Trek%20Online/Commander%20sci%20intrepid%20is%20NOT%20free_zpst3clwqcu.jpg~original
This hits the button, right on the head, as the only real need of a sci vessel, is either that is what you want/like/prefer and/or, you invested heavily in sci only skills for yourself and, your boffs/gear.
Otherwise, you can make use of ANY ship!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I wanted a sci officer. I have an eng with cruisers, and tact with escorts.
Why do they leave the sci officers without the appropriate ship requisitions? Why create a line of ships that you can't get any rank up requisitions at all?
that's BS argument as well ( next....) because that implies there only needs to be ONE ship in entire game ( also say goodbye to Cryptic's main source of revenue then ) . Point is FED gets the choice at every 10th level ( cruiser, escort, science ) from 10-40 while KDF and Romulans don't .It's as simple as that . If you do one, you do all...
Else remove the career options ( also not very wise though) .Saying the presence of a secondary deflector has no impact is also dodgy ...
you're missing the point. There is no "appropriate" ship type for a science officer. they can fly any type of ships.
It's the same for Tactical captains. Just because they are Tactical does not mean that escorts are "appropriate" for them.
Same for Engineers, they are not exclusive to Cruisers.
Any Captain career can fly any type of ship.
The title of this thread is " Why the hell do sci offs have to pay for sci ships?!", let me tell you that if you had made a tactical or engineer, you would still had to pay for a science ship.
Let me make this clear for you for the last time: Science Captains have no special association with Science ships. There is nothing in the game that say certain types of captains should fly certain types of ships. In fact the game encourages you to try out different types of ships.
Also people in this thread have already pointed out where you can get science ships.
Nope. Although Romulans can use tier 4 or lower ships of their allied faction, for the free ships fed/kdf get while leveling up Romulans have to pay dilithium to obtain. But if you have any T4 or lower fed/kdf ships purchased in the c-store you can claim those for free.
The main problem with Romulans is that level 40 is the only time you get a choice of a science ship, the Ha'nom Guardian Warbird. The Fleet Ha'nom, along with the Fleet Ha'apax and Fleet Ha'feh, require a starbase with military and shipyard tier 5. Always baffled me why the fleet versions of the ships you get for free at level 40 require such a high tiered fleet shipyard to obtain.
The only other choices for Romulan science ships:
Mirror Ha'nom Guardian Warbird (lock box; or buy in the exchange)
Aves Dyson Science Destroyer (2014 anniversary ship; currently obtained from lobi store)
R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel (lock box; or buy from the exchange)
The 3 Dyson ships in the c-store
That's all they have for T5 Romulan science ships. The Mirror Ha'non is the only one of those that is Romulan styled in appearance.
No T6 science vessels (at least not yet). So all you get is 1 free ship at level 40 while leveling up and a fleet version of that ship that requires a maxed tiered fleet shipyard.
I think the problem the Romulans is that they can't make any "organic" science vessel character builds, since they only can get an SV towards endgame (for free), when you already spend most of your skill points.
But is that a big problem? There aren't any carriers below Tier 5 either, so you can't "grow" into them either
.
A Fed or Rom-Fed Captain can never fly an all-universal BOFF ship like the BOP, no matter how much money or Dilithium he would be able to spend. (And Rom-KDF must stop doing it at endgame).
I think it is not a bad feature that different factions have acces to certain special ship types that not everyone can have. It sets the factions more apart.
we're talking about free ships though ( not lockbox ,dilithium or zen-purchased stuff ) ,the ones you get with the token ...
Having said that : the vo'quv carrier ( which you get with a token at lvl 40 and which is unique and marvelous ship ) could easily be transformed into a full-fledged sci-ship and my toons use it as such most of the time anyway . What they could do is move some of the lvl 10-30 KDF/ROM ships from zenstore to shipyard and make them sci-ships ( designing new ones would be far too expensive I think, and I highly doubt sales for level 10-30 would be impacted that much ) ,purchasable with tokens
Let's review the Romulans (and only the Romulan, not their "allied access") ships:
T1 - generic light cruiser like the rest of them.
T2 - Destroyer (tactical type build).
T3 - Escort / Raptor / borderline destroyer mk II.
T4 - Cruiser.
T5 - due to being the "last" freebie ship, you're given full access to the "trinity" of Sci / Escort / Cruiser.
So, even the Tacticals (stuffed in cruiser for T4) and Engineers (T2 & 3) aren't getting a "class appropriate" freebie ship at every level. Especially in light of the fact that the Rommie level up token can't buy an allied access ship.
Seems to me that the Republic's levelling progression was designed to showcase at least a touch of "everything under the sun". Even though Science was left out of the equation.
Unless you accept the occasionally posted viewpoint of "Singularity powers = Science". Then there's science on every warbird... :P
Also, would anyone care or "recognize" the differences between Science and Destroyer at T2 - which would be the "appropriate" level for a Science type ship to be illustrated instead of the tactical-heavy destroyer?
Additionally please note, that this matches, 100% the KDF's "freebie Science progression". Actually exceeds it, because the KDF's T5 Science is "paygated" behind the C-store. Unless you count the Vo'Quv carrier's Cmdr Sci as a "science" option. Then it's 100% match for sure.
And if you haven't been looking ahead, let me fill you in on one of the worst kept secrets of Romulan "endgame worthy" Science ships. Specifically the fact that the lineup consists of:
Aforementioned T5 Freebie.
T5.5 Fleet Variant of the Freebie.
T5.5 Dyson bundle.
Usual assortment of Lockbox / Lobi stuffs. (Temporal, Orb Weaver, Voth, etc.)
Also, this is a 100% match to the KDF's "non carrier" Science lineup.
Welcome to the wonderful world of non-Fed Sciences...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
you tested this ? that's no good .... for Rom I'm seriously wondering then what the point of alligning yourself with a faction is .
you can not claim the intrepid class vessel with your free-ship token ( you can only buy a romulan vessel with that )
Once again, that is the point of this thread.
You can NOT get a sci ship requisition AT ALL. There is NO choice.
You MUST pay at a minimum out of your character's wallet, which for 80k dilithium, I think you would outlevel the tier before getting that much.
There are so many replies in this thread that have absolutely nothing to do with what I am talking about.
folks mistake ship-availability with the free-ship tokens , that's the problem ...
this thread is solely about the latter : you get a free ship token at every 10th level and what can you use that for . We're not talking about ec-ships, dilithium ships, ships in lockboxes or ships on exchange ..
He's not talking about a free T5, he's talking about roms not having free sci boats at t2-t4.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
To throw more fuel into the fire, I'll go on to say Science Captains have no business in Science Vessels. Tactical Captains do :cool: