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A little perspective on the Trendy incident
xtern1ty
Member Posts: 796 Arc User
Three threads and counting showing support for Trendy and condemnation for name-calling trolls. Here's one more, because a few more things came to mind...
If Trendy locks dev blogs and announcements in future, she'd be totally justified; though I'd rather prefer if threads remain open so the community can express opinions with civility. Trendy and devs doing their jobs and we the community behaving ourselves and enjoying a STO they worked to create and maintain. That's the answer for gamers who think it's 'their' game, which is only true to a point.
If I may say however (and I'm going to post ideas later here hoping Trendy picks up some good points to pass on)...
In retrospect, what happened could have been worse. Instead of having moderation powers, Trendy could have been just another user. Down on this level it's a whole different ballgame when you don't have any powers, don't have anyone to defend you, cannot rely on any mod to understand what's going on beyond the discussion and must rely on just your wits and verbal skills to out-maneuver opponents who outnumber you and attempt to use your every word against you. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who can relate to that.
The issue of in-game verbal trolling needs to be taken up by PWE not shied from. Simply sending in a ticket and hoping for a reply is inadequate, especially when things degenerate into cyberbullying.
Those who say trolls are harmless are living in yesterday. This is the world today.
In this regard, I don't think PW does enough. Today's incident is just a taste of how fast things can go down and frankly, if the same thing had happened in-game to any of us regular players, that person would have gotten away with it. That emboldens those types to act up even on the forums, thinking they are equally immune.
Perfect World has the opportunity to be innovative and ahead of the MMOG crowd when it comes to dealing with cyber-issues that concern the community's safety. PWE would benefit by the good publicity alone if that happens and I want to see it happen.
- Direct contact with someone in charge who can intervene or observe in-game at any moment.
- A redesigned in-game Report system with a dedicated cyber-bullying section section where you can add to previously filed reports for ongoing matters and include at least 10 minutes of the chat conversation.
- Strict policy which bans malicious impersonating of accounts, fleets and channels and acts to remove them from game when reported by the original.
- An in-game feedback system.
These are some ideas, feel free to add to them. If trolls try to derail this thread, just drop the hammer and lock it.
If Trendy locks dev blogs and announcements in future, she'd be totally justified; though I'd rather prefer if threads remain open so the community can express opinions with civility. Trendy and devs doing their jobs and we the community behaving ourselves and enjoying a STO they worked to create and maintain. That's the answer for gamers who think it's 'their' game, which is only true to a point.
If I may say however (and I'm going to post ideas later here hoping Trendy picks up some good points to pass on)...
In retrospect, what happened could have been worse. Instead of having moderation powers, Trendy could have been just another user. Down on this level it's a whole different ballgame when you don't have any powers, don't have anyone to defend you, cannot rely on any mod to understand what's going on beyond the discussion and must rely on just your wits and verbal skills to out-maneuver opponents who outnumber you and attempt to use your every word against you. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who can relate to that.
The issue of in-game verbal trolling needs to be taken up by PWE not shied from. Simply sending in a ticket and hoping for a reply is inadequate, especially when things degenerate into cyberbullying.
Those who say trolls are harmless are living in yesterday. This is the world today.
In this regard, I don't think PW does enough. Today's incident is just a taste of how fast things can go down and frankly, if the same thing had happened in-game to any of us regular players, that person would have gotten away with it. That emboldens those types to act up even on the forums, thinking they are equally immune.
Perfect World has the opportunity to be innovative and ahead of the MMOG crowd when it comes to dealing with cyber-issues that concern the community's safety. PWE would benefit by the good publicity alone if that happens and I want to see it happen.
- Direct contact with someone in charge who can intervene or observe in-game at any moment.
- A redesigned in-game Report system with a dedicated cyber-bullying section section where you can add to previously filed reports for ongoing matters and include at least 10 minutes of the chat conversation.
- Strict policy which bans malicious impersonating of accounts, fleets and channels and acts to remove them from game when reported by the original.
- An in-game feedback system.
These are some ideas, feel free to add to them. If trolls try to derail this thread, just drop the hammer and lock it.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
If there's already a bunch of threads on the subject, why did you feel the need to make another one? Are you special enough that the forums can't go on without your very specific input on the situation, input that somehow can't go in one of the existing threads?
I say lock down the information and announcements threads. Allow discussion in other threads, but not the information thread itself. This adds another step in the process, yes. However, it keeps the flamefests and name calling and threats away from the information. I don't want to scroll through 1,000 plus posts just to find out if anyone at Cryptic has changed something about an addition or update to the game.
Next, I'd suggest the mods be a little more proactive in the future and they run a lot higher profile than currently. Win the second fight before it starts by making the first one an example to others. If you can get the hangers on and cheerleaders to think for a second about the consequences before they post, you can successfully deny the troll personality the primary source for the attention it craves.
No more warnings. The personality which creates the attack threads and cyber bullies thrives on and revels in attention. Why pander to it?
- First offense = one week ban from the forums.
- Second offense = one month ban from the forums coupled to a two week game account suspension.
- Third offense. You've already proven we cannot trust you twice before. So, we'll not give you another chance to abuse our trust. Good bye. Forever.
"But Cryptic won't do this! Because it will cost them customers." How many customers have they lost already because this Community is viewed far and wide as toxic and unsafe for children?
"Buh buh buh! Freedom of Speech and all that! Bull. When you clicked on <I Agree>, you voluntarily gave up freedom of speech and agreed to abide by the terms and conditions set by Perfect World in return for the privilege of coming in here freely and playing the game. Besides, not everyone who plays this game is physically located in the USofA. Further, First Amendment rights are primarily concerned with the ability of the ordinary US citizen to speak out against his/her government and its practices and policies. Not a corporate entity with a for hire entertainment where participation by individuals is entirely voluntary on the part of the individuals.
The troll personality is ruthless and completely unconcerned about anything other than its own immediate gratification with attention. It has no morals, no scruples. There is no length to which it will not go to acquire the attention it lives for. Drawing a 'line in the sand' simply reinforces negative behavior. So stop feeding it. Cut it off from the source of its power without hesitation or remorse. Also without emotion. I used to have to remind myself daily as a Community Mod it was not personal, it was business.
The moderators are volunteers -- and as much as I respect the moderators of the STO forums (even if I may disagree with them sometimes), you kind of get what you pay for when you hire volunteers to play the internet police on a B Title video game forum.
It's like having 911 service but all the firemen and police officers don't work weekends, they just say they'll clean up the mess on Monday.
Or as someone else said a while ago in another thread, "Mods are off on weekends, post bait threads."
Personally, I'd love more heavy-handed moderation.
https://xkcd.com/1357/
Compared to other very large communities I have seen, with this kind of posting volume, the moderators are severely, severely understaffed, and also not spread out enough over different schedules and time zones. A long time ago, I participated in another very large community, and it had a FAR larger number of mods than this forum, and with some in the UK and other countries besides the US, this ensured 24-7 monitoring. I think that should be considered by PWE as well. It doesn't mean the current mods are bad. It means they need a LOT more help than they are getting.
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On that note... I'm not terribly bothered by the forum moderation. It's a little less strict than I'd like but within tolerances. I'm more interested in moderation in-game, because I have no idea how basically every MMO manages to be so bad at that.
ESD and Drozana are bad, for example, but still better than Imperial Fleet on the Bioware server I play on.
I don't get why live moderation - having people online in the various social zones whose job it is to follow the conversation and maintain civil discourse - isn't a thing. One would think it would be. It's how ever chatroom that's ever been worth visiting has maintained that value.
At the expense of actually being able to follow the chat, and thus punishing the victim instead of the harasser. Not a solution.
A chat involving someone worthy of being ignored is not a chat I'd care to follow to begin with, but that's just my opinion.
Rayzee
excellentawesome#4589
torgaddon101
raeat
I'd be alright with that. There are a few people on the forums who just can't seem to stop themselves from impulsively responding to the things I say despite the fact they think I'm a troll who just needs to be ignored. Maybe an ignore feature would finally be able to give them some control of putting me out of their sight and out of their mind.
I'd also be okay with the STO forums joining the year 2015 and introducing a Report button on every post. People report abusive behavior this way. People who abuse this feature get the feature disabled for them and/or punitive action taken against them for "No Merit" actions.
I'd also be just dandy with a public warning system so everybody can see who has been given infractions, along with the name and shame policy being thrown out the window and holding individual posters accountable for the things they say and do.
But again, just my opinion.
Ignoring the problem doesn't prevent it
I hope some Dev doesn't use this as another excuse to avoid this forum.
You know who you are.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
I don't want "People aren't harassing me." I want "People aren't getting harassed."
Exactly! If we had Forum Rep available, I'd give you 1,000 points' worth.
Sadly, trolls and jerks on the internet pay the bills at Cryptic too, and they're not willing to cut them off so easily. They're too willing to say "Put them on ignore" as a solution.
So, yes... while morally and ethically PWE and Cryptic should aggressively ensure people are not getting harassed in the game, realistically they can't since jerks on the internet give them money too, and money isn't picky.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
But when does that ever work?
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Love your sig
I'd rather step it up one more notch and make it akin to a Stalinist policy, minus the cult of personality.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
On top of that, a Report Button that you can just click for a problematic post could also minimize the excessive results of trolling.
I will probably never go through the trouble of sending PMs or worse, creating a support ticket, to report a troll. But clicking a report button? That I'll do.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
So what you are saying is that all the tools you want are already available to you (file a report - and they do action them BTW) but you feel like its too much effort?
Surely you are either not actually that bothered by a problematic post or you would be motivated?
But out of respect for her and her job, perhaps it's best if we stop making new threads about this? She's already locked 2 of them, lets respect that decision and stop with the new threads.
I think Trendy knows she's mostly loved by the community, and I think she's smart enough to know that she'll never please everyone. There will always be those that want to throw insults, I'm sure they'll find this thread soon enough as well.
When the moderation closes a topic, it's usually best to let it go. Constantly revisiting this issue in thread after thread only makes her job harder.
The downside of having a free mmo where people can come onto the forums without paying a dime and posting is that you get those types of people that think "Haha i can make another account and nothings gonna happen". But lemme explain something - you HAVE a primary account in game. You HAVE an account you spend your cash on to get zen and honestly? It's not that hard to link up who's who from the forums to the game.
Those that made some seriously horrific comments towards Trendy deserve to have some in game actions done towards them. Maybe it should be a new system that if you get banned on the forums you get an in game ban as well. *shrugs*
I'm also really saddened that some kids haven't learned that yah while it's the internet saying stupid TRIBBLE won't get you into hot water. Though I was glad to read lots of people come to her defense. Apparently we need to stop being light handed on moderation and really hit hard on those that apparently think it's okay to insult, bash, and hate on others.
That all said to comment on a few things the OP posted -
You have access to people it's called the GM team. They will handle things as they see fit. In game trolling happens in every MMO. Especially in free ones there is 0 way to stop it without disabling chat. When you report someone, the chat does get added to the ticket. I cannot say how much of it is put into the ticket, but it DOES get added and it's a good chunk. What happens a lot of the times that I've noticed with people reporting others is they fight back. They argue, call the other person names, then expect that PWE will intervene. Well honestly if you join in the argument and start bad mouthing the person, you're also a problem. Not a solution. Your best bet is to ALWAYS ignore and report anyone that bothers you or harasses you. Do they always act against those harassing? Newp. Have they done it before? Yep. I know that first hand.
A strict policy of banning impersonating accounts would be nice. I know that those impersonating staff members, even volunteer ones, does exist as even myself for example has some power behind our voice (apparently according to players) and if people impersonate us, people take what we say as truth. That said fleets and channels are a totally different beast and are harder to moderate. Channels especially since they could easily close one down and another can just as easily open up.
Finally - when a moderator closes a thread, for ANY REASON its actually against the rules to re-open it, unless we specify otherwise. For example the whole necro thread stuff we do state you can make a new one. So in this case, I get the last word :P and we are closing this one down. I'd appreciate it if another isn't opened.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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