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Dev announcement on the Risa issue, my personal response
darthmeow504
Member Posts: 2,302 Arc User
I replied on the main announcement thread, but I want to make sure this is seen. It's well worth the read IMO.
First off, holy effing wow batman, way to zero in on a player issue, lock phasers and photons on full spread, and blast it into utter oblivion! I'm amazed, honestly, no sarcasm at all, and your solution is better than I had hoped possible. I am certain you have made a lot of people very, very happy with this decision and the warp speed at which you responded with this solution is very impressive indeed.
If I might make a suggestion, you might consider letting people keep their slotted projects in case they are unable to finish and allowing them to complete them with the new currency. It would mean they have to finish their mission objectives from the year prior as well as the new set, and so it shouldn't cause people to skip out on running the missions. Nor would it affect the collectability / exclusivity aspect you seem to be going for, as you would have had to be here for the year's event to have slotted the project. It's something to consider.
It would make me happier still to see this "account unlock for event reward items" extended to all the special unique items. I think a lot of people would be singing your praises for that one, myself included, more than we already are! You have turned a torch and pitchfork angry mob into a cheering throng of fans with your announcement, and there aren't enough positive words for your handling of this. I mean it.
Reading through your full explanation of what prompted the change, I am saddened and disappointed not at you or your team, but at my fellow players. People were exploiting what was a gift (the alt discount) to avoid ever having to participate in the event at all. You were right to close that loophole and I'm glad you did it. People saying "it's for teh metrix!" are being TRIBBLE$holes, plain and simple. I play the Risa event for exactly the reason you say, to have a fun and social event full of relaxation and lighthearted activities, like a vacation within the game itself. For me, it's the only kind of vacation I can afford to take. And if the population of Risa drops because people exploit the loophole to get the ship without ever setting foot on Risa at all, that screws up MY fun and that of everyone else who wants to enjoy actually participating in the event. If they want to be sticks in the mud and not play the games, they shouldn't get the reward. Their participation in the event makes it more fun for everyone because a party isn't a party unless it's populated. So if they have to be bribed to join the party, so be it. If they want to pass on the reward, ok fine, but the enticement is enough to get a lot of them to join in and that keeps the event population up and the players who want to enjoy it happy.
The same thing happened this Winter with the Tides of Ice minigame. People grumbled and griped about having to play it to get the rewards, but the event was FUN and a great many who complained still ended up enjoying themselves and having a blast just playing the game. And for those of us who enjoyed playing it for fun, it meant we had a constant stream of players to join us and keep the fun rolling. After the requirement to play the minigame was removed, though, people just bought their rewards with items saved up or bought on the exchange or whatever and the population in Tides of Ice plummeted. Those of us playing it just for fun were left all alone, and it ruined the minigame. The same sort of "gimme the bonus item and TRIBBLE having to actually play the game!" jerkwads clearly tried to do the same thing to Risa. THANK YOU, truly and sincerely, for putting a stop to it.
Congratulations on a job well done. I raise my Risian Mai Tai to you, good sir.
salamiinferno wrote: »There has been a lot of discussion, speculation, and general debate with the decision to adjust the way Summer Event ship currency is earned. This wasnt a decision we came to lightly, but it was one that we needed to make to maintain the integrity of this event and these ships. Im going to take a moment to give some history on these sorts of events, why we made this decision, and what we plan to do moving forward.
Our seasonal events came to pass as a way to give you something fun to play that doesnt fall strictly in line with our standard gameplay, while also giving out a rare and powerful reward for doing so. We decided, as most of you would, that the most desirable reward we could give out is a ship and a system was designed to give you access to that ship. Over a specific period of time youre asked to log in and play a short mission for about 55% of that time in order to earn a near lock box quality ship. This ship was earned per character and each character on your account had to turn in the same amount of currency to earn the ship. The ship wasnt only powerful, but was a status symbol for someone that was there when the event ran. After a couple of years of participating in this system the general feedback from the community was that this was too tedious and far too much of a commitment for people with multiple alts that wanted the ship. This led us to have some internal discussions and make a change.
About a year ago we changed the system so that all you had to do was earn the ship on a single character on your account, and then every alt you had that could slot the ship project only had to turn in a single days worth of currency in order to get the ship. We were happy to make this change, and were even happier at how well it was received by the community. It meant everyone got their ships and didnt have to get completely burned out on the daily mission to earn the currency. For a time, this was a great setup and both dev and player got what they wanted.
Over the last couple of seasonal events we noticed a trend that was different than we had seen in the past. General participation on the event was dropping, but the number of ships being collected was staying the same. Somehow people were playing less and still earning the ships from these events; we started digging into the numbers to figure this out. We initially assumed people were using the Lobi bypass option to speed their way through the events, but after digging deeper into the numbers that wasnt the case either. It turned out the change we made to make earning the ships more alt friendly had completely trivialized play of the events. Players could earn currency on all of their alts in one year, and then spend the currency from a single character every year to get the ship immediately. While some few players would then re-run the event on the character that spent their currency, the vast majority wouldnt. Again, this meant participation was down while rewards were still earned at the same rate.
Ive written all of this to explain how weve gotten to where we are today, a new currency for every ship every year. This ensured that each year the players that participate in the event will earn the reward for that year, while still allowing alts to earn the ships after a single play of the event. We knew that shipping the alt friendly system as it was is our mistake, and we wanted to ensure that impacted players werent left with nothing. We created a variety of desirable rewards that would let players turn in their pearls and feel like they got something valuable or unique for them. While this satisfied me in the short term, after reading all of your feedback I want to take this a step further.
We will be making every event ship youve ever earned and every event ship moving forward total account unlocks. As soon as one character on your account owns a ship, every single other character on your account that exists now or you will ever create will have immediate access to any event ship youve earned. There will be no need for your alts to play the event mission, no hoops to fly through other than picking up the ship from a store. Hopefully taking this extra step will address any lingering concerns you have with the overall change. Thanks for reading this far, and I look forward to seeing you on Risa soon!
First off, holy effing wow batman, way to zero in on a player issue, lock phasers and photons on full spread, and blast it into utter oblivion! I'm amazed, honestly, no sarcasm at all, and your solution is better than I had hoped possible. I am certain you have made a lot of people very, very happy with this decision and the warp speed at which you responded with this solution is very impressive indeed.
If I might make a suggestion, you might consider letting people keep their slotted projects in case they are unable to finish and allowing them to complete them with the new currency. It would mean they have to finish their mission objectives from the year prior as well as the new set, and so it shouldn't cause people to skip out on running the missions. Nor would it affect the collectability / exclusivity aspect you seem to be going for, as you would have had to be here for the year's event to have slotted the project. It's something to consider.
It would make me happier still to see this "account unlock for event reward items" extended to all the special unique items. I think a lot of people would be singing your praises for that one, myself included, more than we already are! You have turned a torch and pitchfork angry mob into a cheering throng of fans with your announcement, and there aren't enough positive words for your handling of this. I mean it.
Reading through your full explanation of what prompted the change, I am saddened and disappointed not at you or your team, but at my fellow players. People were exploiting what was a gift (the alt discount) to avoid ever having to participate in the event at all. You were right to close that loophole and I'm glad you did it. People saying "it's for teh metrix!" are being TRIBBLE$holes, plain and simple. I play the Risa event for exactly the reason you say, to have a fun and social event full of relaxation and lighthearted activities, like a vacation within the game itself. For me, it's the only kind of vacation I can afford to take. And if the population of Risa drops because people exploit the loophole to get the ship without ever setting foot on Risa at all, that screws up MY fun and that of everyone else who wants to enjoy actually participating in the event. If they want to be sticks in the mud and not play the games, they shouldn't get the reward. Their participation in the event makes it more fun for everyone because a party isn't a party unless it's populated. So if they have to be bribed to join the party, so be it. If they want to pass on the reward, ok fine, but the enticement is enough to get a lot of them to join in and that keeps the event population up and the players who want to enjoy it happy.
The same thing happened this Winter with the Tides of Ice minigame. People grumbled and griped about having to play it to get the rewards, but the event was FUN and a great many who complained still ended up enjoying themselves and having a blast just playing the game. And for those of us who enjoyed playing it for fun, it meant we had a constant stream of players to join us and keep the fun rolling. After the requirement to play the minigame was removed, though, people just bought their rewards with items saved up or bought on the exchange or whatever and the population in Tides of Ice plummeted. Those of us playing it just for fun were left all alone, and it ruined the minigame. The same sort of "gimme the bonus item and TRIBBLE having to actually play the game!" jerkwads clearly tried to do the same thing to Risa. THANK YOU, truly and sincerely, for putting a stop to it.
Congratulations on a job well done. I raise my Risian Mai Tai to you, good sir.
Post edited by darthmeow504 on
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Comments
Member since December 2009
Or is it just for the Winter and Summer event ships?
To me the only remaining problem is if the new ship has a console that is part of a set. Since I don't have either old ship I'd hope that they would either (a) include the consoles in the ship box -or- (b) give us a Summer project to get an account-wide unlock of just the consoles.
That keeps the old ships exclusive while not making the new ship second-rate for newer players.
as for the intention, i dont mind every event ship having it being account unlocked, so that opens up the breen carrier and raider pets, the kobali cruiser and the risian cruiser. and yes keeping each currency like the q tokens has taken biscuit somewhat, i mean last event if people have collected the previous seasons, there would of probably been just enough to just buy the breen carrier and leave the event without a second thought after a few minutes on the event map. i mean for sure you want the players to get through the experience and some bypassed the system completely, no point crying about what happened, none the less the change is most certainly needed.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
like the bit in the news blog that says
*What if I have a partial Summer Reputation project in progress?
Those of you that already have a summer ship project in progress from a previous year’s event WILL NOT lose any progress, and can simply finish that project either with Risian Lohlunat Pearls or with the new currency when it arrives*
yes that would be good.
what I really want is a reason to play the event winter race and summer jet pack challenge on all my characters every day of the event, even if only for say choice of marks or even some bonus spec xp, I really enjoy playing these things and would like a good reason to do them other then just for fun.
ok I am guilty I horded the marks from last winter event, not so I could avoid doing the event though just because it felt kinda daft to just throw them away after getting them.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
As one of those players who did save up the pearls from the last event to make sure i got the ship on my main chars, i do fall in that small group that still run the event every day regardless though as me being me just loves me a winter/summer event
especially the winter event because SNOW, got to love Christmas
ok rambling now....
Cryptic.. 'we have had thought this over and want to explain further.. in summation we would like to give you this inch.. whats that? you want to take a mile?
ahh, there is that word again.. exploiting! folk were running the mission for the currency, to be used for the single reason it exists, doing the same amount of work to gain the same, overall amount of currency, as any other player would need to do. they just chose to do it all in the same year.. not an exploit, just grinding, as per cryptics preference for its player base, as for calling them names and putting them down because they quoted 'metrix', it was for metrix, or do you not understand that? does you need to express your loyalty bypass your understanding of how things work? to adopt a phrase from a well known mission.. save your sycophancy for a another time darthmeow.. i want to get out of this place!
oh, and all the people making the fuss are the reason this was looked at again, all the people!
This is the sort of information that we should be seeing from the start whenever a change is planned, not the shoddy, pitiful blog posts that explain very little and make changes seem arbitrary and spiteful.
If all of the various nerfs were explained in such ways it would go a long way towards smoothing relations with your players, in particular the older ones who've seen their chosen game going down the pan in their eyes.
However....
I resent the fact that now (as we've already seen in this thread alone) players who played the game a certain way are going to be accused of being hoarders or exploiters.
The possibility of people running the daily missions many times in one year and being "set for life" was always there from the minute you guys implemented the alt discounts, you should have seen that yourselves and if you didn't then you really need to think things through more before they go live.
But at the same time as you think this sort of behavior was a problem those players still had to play and event somewhere to earn those currencies, time was still used up doing enough daily missions to earn that "stash" of currency for them to save until the next event.
Those of us that did run the missions extra times to save up a number of extra currencies were doing so for various reasons: to get the ship early next time, to save time playing the next event, to give ourselves some leeway in case we missed days next event.
None of those thing are being exploiters, they are just people playing how they want to and in most cases being savvy enough to have some forward planning for the following events. It also means those players are probably the most loyal ones you've got because they are actually indicating that they plan to be here at the next event and are already planning for it a year in advance!
Finally...
You made the event ships account wide unlocks now, good move. But do you not think this will create a similar problem with lack of event participation? If an event runs for 35 days and only 25 dailies need to be run for that ship then a huge portion of the players will leave after those 25 days as they have no reason to be there.
Perhaps rather than just looking to nerf thing to force player participation you guys should be trying to ADD or BUFF things to encourage people to stay in the event longer. More varied events on the ground, rewards that vary over the duration of the event, special rewards available only at certain times....there are ways to encourage people.
And at the end of the day players will feel far more positive about the event if they feel they aren't being forced to play the game a certain way.
This is the worse possible thing they can do!!
1) This means the event ships will become like Zen ships. This means we will no longer have to buy more ship slots! Those cost zen...so they are loosing money here.
2) This once again this means that the people who have been playing the game for years get the lollipop and TRIBBLE over new players. The whole delta event was to bring in new players and help them catch up a little to the older players. Their whole great plan....its like now they are burning it up and throwing it out. I brought in 10 new players with event! How am I suppose to say stay and keep playing it will work out! When old event ships may not be available anymore.
Now some of the old event ships have parts in missions! The sets will never be complete for them.
Oh I don't have a Red Matter Capacitor, but then I didn't play the game when it first came out too. Yet it is not like there is a mission with 3 pieces to the set that needs the Red Matter Capacitor too...that I can never get. There are now things like that in the game (Dyson Destroyer and Kobali Cruiser). We all know they will add more and that could drive a new player away...thinking well I guess I should have gotten in STO when it first came out. Even WOW came up with a way to jump to end game just to keep new players to it!
Keep certain ships always available...or put them back as a first time mission reward or reply event. You do the special mission replay event for things like the Shard...add those ships to that event for new players please!!
3) There is nothing wrong with running the mission or event one day to get another copy of the ship. Come on Cryptic the people with 30 alts don't actually play all of them. Those are the people with no life!
I repeatedly read something along those lines, I'm just picking your post but I'm actually replying to all of them, so this is nothing personal
But if you aren't around for event x you naturally miss out the price. What's the big deal? The prices are not mandatory, when I'm not around for the anniversary event that gives the Worf season one sash I don't get it. If they make this stuff available again and again it's not a event vanity item anymore. I have the feeling that this would never be a problem outside of STO, but so many STO players want everything all the time. And the event ships aren't even superior to others.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I never perceived this as an exploit. Among other things, it's the only viable catch-up mechanism if you had skipped a previous year's rewards and as noted, it indicates that you will still be around in a year and are putting the time in, in advance, to have a reduced stressload for the next event.
I get that anything classed as an exploit that works against designer intent... But it seems like every aspect of play has an intent behind it, which is frustrating. Would it be so unreasonable to ask for content or progression systems that are developed without a fixed, specific intent as to timing, rate, nature, and type of progression? It's incredibly constraining and maybe a bit patronizing that we get no alternatives or control over any of this as players. It's micromanagement of design.
Maybe a F2P game requires that but I'm not a freeloading player so I don't think F2P design philosophy should apply to me or other people who are direct spenders.
Your new players can get the ship of 2015 summer event and that is what they should get. In no MMO game new players can gain everything the veterans have access to. It is a way to reward old players for staying in the game for so long time. It is not like they will lose something substantial needed to play endgame or something.
New players should get their chance to earn the old ships. And yes, things being lost forever is common in MMO's. That doesn't mean it's a good thing.
As for "hoarding," it was an incentive to keep playing the event after getting the ship. I do hope they have something else prepared for players who don't want to just stop after 25 runs or Risa will be pretty empty before the end of the event.
And every event there are people complaining it ends a day early, because they started too late or couldn't play for a while. So I wouldn't worry.
The dyson ship has a secondary deflector which is part of the set.. I missed getting the ship by just 2 days due to being abroad and i'd love to get that deflector.. i know i can get it from the lobi store (way overpriced, don't need the ship, i bought the 9 ships from the cstore), but if that doesn't give me some sort of account wide unlock, that'd mean my kdf/rom and fed sci all have to buy it.. that's a lot of lobi for a ship they'll never use considering they have the better cstore dyson.
The same applies to the winter ships: these carry items that are part of the set.. if you are retiring the old ships entirely, new players will never be able to get the set or unlock the pets for the last event ship.
It would be better players should be allowed to chose for last year's ship instead of the current one.. it's their time they are investing; and if they are choosing an older ship, they won't be able to get the current one anyways, not without using lobi which is a win-win..
They could possibly use 2 characters to get 2 ship unlocks in one year, but what's wrong with that; more playtime right and next year the currency will be useless..
If you want to keep the ship as some sort troffee for players to show off they participated in an event, at least give the opportunity for players who missed it to buy just unlocks for items that were on those ships for lobi..
just my 2 cents...
nice lack of understanding in what i was saying.. the gold text was a dig at you asking for more when they have clearly done more than enough. i actually commented on that in the original thread.. as for calling players names, accusing players of exploiting, then blindly disregarding the FACT that it was the metrics highlighting the way people were grinding the event, the metrics highlighting a decline in event participation, so yes, the metrics are pretty much the driving force behind the entire situation.
and im really not surprised by the attitude behind 'the devs stopped selfish jerks from ruining the party you enjoy.. because well, its obviously all about you isnt it?
what about those players who buy the event currency with lobi, buying the ship on day 1 then not going back to the Risa, are those selfish jerks ruining your party too?
people were grinding a currency, using the mechanics implemented by the devs, how exactly is that a selfish act? if you want to see selfish maybe you should look closer to home. *hands over a mirror
in the winter event the devs have done something very nice for our alts. We could slot the older breen ships because there consoles belong to a set. The 1000 to 40 system and the event rep was new introduced at that time. So we had the chance to get all the ships. if the grand prices would be available every year during the same event they would still be event vanity. New players and those of us who missed those prices should not be forgotten. it's not about getting everything it's about having grand price choices.
sorry, let me get this right, you are saying that, even if you missed the special event, you should still be able to get the special item from that special event? that pretty much devalues the entire premiss of the special event and its special reward.
i think what has been proposed is more than fair, it doesn't devalue the commitment and participation that players put in to get the ships, it doesn't benefit those who were in game at the time, and couldn't be bothered to participate, and the benefit to new players is that they won't have to farm on all characters moving forward as we once did.
You'll be wanting the moon on a stick next... :rolleyes:
to clarify... this is what salami wrote...
at best it will be every event ship you have gained on at least 1 character including ships from running a single feature episode.
at worst it will be every event ship you have gained on at least 1 character excluding ships from running a single feature episode.
That's actually another cause for worry. Consider people who start too late or can't play every day, they can't just finish it next year anymore, so now they might as well not even start.
This my point exactly. It essentially punishes those players who have the sense to plan ahead and save up some extra pearl or photos etc as a backup plan in case they can't play for the whole of the next event. I've always been away for at least a week of the summer event each year but I've saved up on the previous year and thus been able to acquire the ships.
I've still put the effort in and I've still spent time in the events because I needed 1000 pearls etc on the newest ship.
I get the feeling if the discount hadn't been so severe then there really wouldn't have been a problem.
They way it looks going forwards is that people will only run one single toon through the event for the required 25 days of whatever, then leave. They won't put any alts on the ground as there's no need, they won't stick around after getting the ship to stash a few more pearl in the bank, they'll just leave.
So really after the average time it takes to get the ship, say 25-30 days, the event will be a lot less used. Always going to be people who started late yes, but they are certainly not the majority.
This was a great decision, but look at the rage it took to get a response!
Could have all been avoided with a little forethought and communication, that would have saved all the unnecessary rage.
Time an time again, Cryptic keep sending the bull into the china shop, but still expect a different result.
There is a definition that explains this reasoning, it is called insanity...