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Brotherhood of the Sword is the worst level in any game I've played
farranor
Member Posts: 559 Arc User
It's a beautiful cornucopia of totally absurd design decisions.
1. Abrupt change from usual mission criteria (kill everything as fast as possible while ignoring objectives)
2. Filled with enemies that kill you in one hit (on NORMAL)
3. Filled with enemies that constantly drop your targeting, teleport behind you, and generally kill you
4. When there's bad stuff on the ground (red circle/cone, etc.), you can step out of it and be several feet away from the edge and it will still hit you
5. Death is meaningless due to popping back up in the same spot 3 seconds later
6. A tac officer with stealth module can cruise past most of the mission, because they can activate devices without breaking stealth (sometimes this is needed to get past teams who don't know what to do, but bad design doesn't excuse more bad design)
This level is like Mario Party (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2015/04/08/). Success is random, skill is irrelevant, and nothing I do matters. Activate devices properly? Doesn't mean a thing if you don't have help. Good defensive items and skills? Doesn't mean a thing, because you will die. If everyone knows what to do and where to go? Great! We're done in five minutes. But when the experience is drawn out to ten or fifteen minutes, I would literally rather be working. When you've designed part of a game that feels worse than work, you have not created a level in a game. You have created a failure.
As soon as I have enough marks for T5 rep, I'm done with this mission.
1. Abrupt change from usual mission criteria (kill everything as fast as possible while ignoring objectives)
2. Filled with enemies that kill you in one hit (on NORMAL)
3. Filled with enemies that constantly drop your targeting, teleport behind you, and generally kill you
4. When there's bad stuff on the ground (red circle/cone, etc.), you can step out of it and be several feet away from the edge and it will still hit you
5. Death is meaningless due to popping back up in the same spot 3 seconds later
6. A tac officer with stealth module can cruise past most of the mission, because they can activate devices without breaking stealth (sometimes this is needed to get past teams who don't know what to do, but bad design doesn't excuse more bad design)
This level is like Mario Party (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2015/04/08/). Success is random, skill is irrelevant, and nothing I do matters. Activate devices properly? Doesn't mean a thing if you don't have help. Good defensive items and skills? Doesn't mean a thing, because you will die. If everyone knows what to do and where to go? Great! We're done in five minutes. But when the experience is drawn out to ten or fifteen minutes, I would literally rather be working. When you've designed part of a game that feels worse than work, you have not created a level in a game. You have created a failure.
As soon as I have enough marks for T5 rep, I'm done with this mission.
Post edited by farranor on
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Comments
Other than this. The devices are annoying, the optionals are meh. Personally I would have spread them out. Honor Guard Stage 1, Fire Team Stage 2, Orion Stage 3, Targs stage 4. Gets a bit crammed together on optionals at times.
With my setup, I can take 4 or 5 heralds hitting me while I do the device on Adv. As for getting to the secondary device. Well the first part of Juggernaut fixes that for. I just run over them, like a linebacker tends to run over a quarterback. Other than that, for me to die in two or three hits, well a defiler has to hulk smash me.
Since they removed the fail conditions i played it many times on Advanced.
I think the Thralls are some of the stongest enemies i have seen. I can withstand several hits from an Elite Borg Drone or hHerlad Brutes but that thrall with his shield pen Melee weapon kills me almost instantly (I want that as a Lockbox/Lobi weapon).
Another thing i don't like is that our weapons are only working if we aim directly ata target. Esp. with AoE weapons (Ejection Rifle, Fluidic Lance...) that su**s.
And several times i had a clear shot but there was something between me and the enemies, some rubble, a firepit. It was not high enough to block my shot but still my weapons were not working.
And the rewards are a joke. 90 marks in Khitomer advanced and 39 in Brotherhood WITH some optionals
For the thralls and their beater sticks. the following requires T3 in Omega, Inconian, and I believe Nukara. But in your ground reputation traits. Put the following.
Regenerative Shield Augmentation, Radiant Detonation or Integrated Nanofibers, Medical Nanaite, Energized Nanites.
If you don't have Radiant Detonation, use Integrated Nanofibers for that extra +10 All Bonus Damage Resistance.
If you haven't done it already, makes sure Combat Armor is maxed in your ground skills. Then get a kit with the [Armor] mod.
*sigh* And here I am giving up parts to my build.
102? with or without daily Bonus marks? Several times now we gaot all the optionals but never got close to 102.
I use RAdiant Detonation but my other 2 traits are the Voth trait vor more Crit. Severity, the Romulan vor Crit chance and theDelta for Crit chance. Againt the Thralls i usually just use my forcefield or mines as an engineer
maybe hthis is the wrong Post but are there Kits with 4 modifier Armor, Weapon, Gen CritX?
O a (Delta) Kit with Weapon, Gen CritX and one with Armor Weapon Critx?
Well I'm not up on Engineer Kits. Your kits will have mods that pertain to your ground skills. All three classes get Combat Armor as a ground skill. So yes, Armor will be there for Engi as well as Sci. For me, on the tac officer I'm playing, my ground skills are maxed for weapons, combat specialist, psg, combat armor, special forces and 6 ranks in willpower.
So I took my time with my kit. Found one with [Armor][Combat][Spec] giving me a +28 bonus to Armor, Combat Specialist, and Special Forces. Its VR Kit MkXIII
So for an Engi, the first two mods I would look for is [Weapon][Armor] then a third mod that pertains to one of your ground skills. Might take a while to find the right one. But at least forcus on the [Armor] part. [Weapon] is going to give a bonus to your weapon damage. And I believe [Gen] should give a bonus to your Generators. Like i said, that last one is just a guess.
Keep Radiant Detonation. Good little AoE kicker for you weapon. Not a very big one, but hey, every little bit helps.
Other than this. I'd get the two piece ground set from Iconian Rep. Gives a nice little HP up with the two piece.
Also on my armor my mods are [HP][RegHP][RegSH] its gonna be pretty hard for me to replace my armor. Which is another thing you have to pay attention to. The type of armor you're wearing affects your defense and offensive abilities. Finding my mods will be pretty hard. But at least get something that has an HP increase on it. Whether its set or not.
Regenerative Shield Augmentaion gives me a +11.3 shield regen per second.
Medical Nanites gives me 20.4 HP per 4 seconds in combat.
Energized Nanites gives me 5% of my outgoing damage as a self heal.
Oh and I forgot to mention. only my kit is above MkXII. Everything else is MkXI or MkXII.
That is exactly what I was talking about. They do it all the time. I can't handle 2158 damage in one hit.
Yeah thats my down fall too. If I grab threat on it, which is generally all the time. I just do my best to kite it around. Kneel for ranged attacks, get out of his two AoEs, the cone and the circle. I mean with my setup, using the 2 piece Iconian gear, the regular health trait, and my armor. My Hp is reading 1019, I'm thinking this is a fluke, as it was 987 earlier.Might a picked up another 2% accolade with finishing delta quad. I just haven't found where I'm gett the extra 32 HP from, since I'm unbuffed. I only have 526 shield though. With that charge the defiler does, yeah, he can knock 3/4's of that off. Then as you're trying to get away, well the second hit comes and you get to take a nice dirt nap.
You can get 20% HP from traits. Peak Health and Indomitable. If you fully point in to Juggernaut as I have. You'll get the following
+20 All Bonus Damage resistance
+20% Maximum Health
+20% Maximum Shield Capacity
-10% All energy Damage to Shield.
Plus that nice ability from the first point in it to run over anything thing in melee range when sprinting.
You do have the option of not standing there helplessly and blazing away while the alien advances toward you, like a disposable space marine in an 80's sci-fi movie. If you're a Science Captain, hit him with roots and snares. If you're an Engineering Captain, make him chase you around the Cover Shield you planted, while you throw mines around like rice at a wedding. If you're a Tactical Captain, slow him down with covering Fire. In any event, you could be tumbling and rolling like you're showing James Kirk how it's done. Stay out of the big guy's reach.
Thats the main focus of kiting him. The only problem is he has a charge ability that hits like a truck, full of bricks, with no brakes.
I'm not using all the gear suggested so far, I'm not turbo buffed with fancy power X, and I don't get one-shotted that often. Then again, I dont stand like a muppet in one spot as a disposable gun turret...
So many people seem to think ground combat is like Space-Chase-the-DPS-Dragon addicts usual recommended 'park and bfaw' play style. It's not.
Brotherhood Normal used to pay 70 marks, till they nerfed it because more people were playing it that the 2 iconian space stf's. Now, it's hardly worth doing.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
I died several times before I got a handle on things, so what
there are 1-shot moves, so what (((you are supposed to learn how to avoid them)))
I still die now and then from stuff I'm learning to avoid
enjoy the journey man
LOL, this post made me laugh pretty hard, ty for that humorous suggestion!
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Don't like objectives? Don't play BotS.
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
... unless they have the [ Phys ] modifier of course. When I craft custom armor for new alts I usually make piles of mark 2 energy dampening until I get one with [ Phys ] and level that. That works for most story missions where melee damage is rare.
That only gives a little physical resistance though, so polyalloy or a fleet or rep with high physical resist would be better for this.
I'll also call shenanigans on that one. I've setup my KDF eng to not die in most situations. He doesn't here. If this were really chance time that would totally not be the case. It is, leaving me to suggest to the OP that maybe he doesn't know what good defensive items and skills mean or rather how to ues them appropriately for this mission.
Its different, it forces you to rethink priorities (kill them but only up to a point), and it allows for other playstyles than max DPS (which is going to get its TRIBBLE handed to itself because its compromised in other areas). Ex. Stealth. Ex. tanking. Ex. partially suicidal decoy.
BoS is categorically good game design (in other words, BoS is boss). It takes STO and works it in such a way thats new, interesting, a challenge, but in some other way than surmounting damage sponges. It encourages thoughtful gameplay and thoughtful setups. Maybe that's unfamiliar, but once you get over that there's a lot to enjoy about this PVE.
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^ Exactly this.
I don't stand around like a muppet either. Why do you think I do that? I stay mobile, try to avoid things... only, there are some things that can't be avoided. In theory you're supposed to be able to avoid the Defiler's overhead smash, only it's not possible if you were inside the area when he started casting, because it'll hit you even if you leave the area. In theory you're supposed to be able to avoid the Herald's red zones, only he lays down a dozen of them like roof shingles and the whole floor is lava.
What do you mean, "so what"? So that makes it a poorly-designed game. And, like I've been saying, there's no avoiding the one-shot moves. Charge and smash, red zones that extend beyond their visible boundaries, red zones that cover the entire floor, instant teleports, and so on. If you're enjoying that journey, you're the one who's nuts, because enjoying unavoidable failure is abnormal.
Why do you think I don't like objectives? What I don't like is that it's a vast change from the usual, which causes other players to have no idea what to do. I think they hear "You have fifteen seconds to..." and fill the rest in with "kill all the NPCs that just spawned." I think it's an interesting objective, and I know that a game isn't the same thing as an interface, but there's a line between "new and exciting" and "don't surprise the user."
It's not complicated, but it's not fun either. 1-2-3 devices a few times, kill boss. It's very straightforward to me. But it relies on the rest of the team being able to cope with an unusual mission, and it involves enemies with instant, unavoidable one-shot abilities. That's not a game, it's an unethical psychological experiment.
I'm using the new Romulan Navy armor. It has 64 physical resist. The only resistance I'm not getting that I might reasonably be expected to have (on my eng, anyway) is the resist from Threat Control, but I don't have it (I prioritized the skills that unlocked training manuals).
Do you get good teams every time (possibly fleet runs)? Do you not get one-shot by unavoidable attacks, that have no practical consequence anyway? Because I often get teams that are confused by the objectives, and I frequently get one-shot by unavoidable attacks that do nothing but make me feel like I did something wrong. That's poor game design.
If you were able to read, you would have noticed that my point was that Brotherhood of the Sword is a poorly-designed mission, and that I specified several factors that contribute to this.
Oh? Your eng can handle hits of 2k+ damage that are not only unavoidable, but also fast enough to eliminate the possibility of even using defensive CDs reactively? That's pretty good. But for the rest of us common folk who just want to run through a Normal-mode mission for some marks, it's unrealistic and preposterous.
Suicidal decoy is rarely a sign of good game design, because dying is a universal indicator that you messed up. When dying is such a normal part of a mission that it's even less of an inconvenience than it is during the Winter event, there is a problem.
This mission demonstrates categorically bad game design. It encourages thoughtful gameplay with stealth and CDs, but then doesn't reward it. Stealthing through the mission (pretty ridiculous that certain players - myself included on my tac - are able to basically skip 90% of the mission)? Sorry, your teammates were thrown off by the unusual objectives, so you have to try over and over again. Using tanking abilities and staying mobile? Sorry, an enemy charged you and hit you for 150% of your maximum shields and health. There's such a disconnect between action and reward that I question why there's even a mission in there. It could be a 30-minute Doff assignment for all the engagement and meaningful interaction it provides.
but really, it is mostly handle-able and avoid-able damage
sure, I still die sometimes but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the weak link is likely still me, my gameplay isn't 100% perfect after like maybe 10 total rounds at this new iconian ground game
look,
these people that make this game, it's their job to present us with accomplish-able challenges, even if we can't see exactly how to do it after 10 games
in general,
all this new stuff needs more defense which is EXACTLY what is needed. the game is filled with dps maniacs who need to get tossed on their butt so that they have to rethink their game. for the iconian space stuff I had to shelve the escort I was using and rebuild one of my other more survive-able ships. for the moment. while I'm learning.
THAT IS OK.
what, do you think they came out with those defensive command ships for nothing?
so go out there and get some more defense. along those lines, there are a couple traits that could help. "ironsides" is extremely good. and "molt" couldn't hurt either. also, there are TONS of free defensive traits you already have and the reputation traits (also free) have great defensives.
good luck.
<.<
>.>
I went Black Widow on the Heralds.
Granted my character is a Trill... she's got a pretty decent Black Widow "Cosplay" outfit. ^^
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Yup. The first part is don't put yourself in the middle of a mob. The second part is watch for the massive telegraphing. Third: keep your distance. Fourth: max DPS is not your friend (compromise for defense, which is incidentally how I don't end up with 2k+ of damage on the big hits). And so on.
Honestly and truly I don't have a problem with this mission. I've set my character up to handle elite ground, battlezones, and other difficult ground content and so far on Normal AND advanced I'm not having issues. Now from my perspective its possible for me to infer one of two things from this situation.
1. I've been magically spared the manifestation of "bad" game design over many run throughs.
or
2. You aren't setting your character up properly for difficult ground content.
I'll go with the second because expressing 1 as a set of independent probabilities would get me fantastically unlikely odds.
Partially suicidal and it was mentioned as a viable strategy (draw theat from other players and, if not capable of tanking, run for cover) and only after other, more "traditional" playstyles were mentioned. When you read to reply try to understand what the other person is saying. Don't just look for word combinations that excuse more ranting.
Again consider what is being said.
You say that stealth isn't being rewarded, and yet to you its a highly successful tactic. There may not be an explicit mark bonus (discounting the optional(s) it also comes in handy for) but gameplay is definitely rewarding your approach to BoS. I'm sorry that you haven't yet found other ways of dealing with it (tactics as well as setups), but to some only a few gameplay avenues are going to be available (based on gear, skills, and ways of thinking).
Now you could take that as a sign that your approach isn't as good as it can be (which in other people telling you that they have viable direct combat tactics is a damned likely point according to objective reason) or that everything is awful and those telling you otherwise are lying just to **** with you.
One is constructive, and if carried through with some thought will lead you to better times. The other is self-indulgent BS that's not worth a discussion (because it services you and you alone. There's no possible interchange) I hope you choose the constructive path but considering you've already tried the less constructive option I'm not holding out much hope.
And I say that not just because it might lead to a better discussion but it also reinforces my ultimate point here. I'm not disagreeing with you for the sake of contradition. I do truly feel that BoS is a good ground PVE. I wouldn't like it as much if cryptic eased off it any more than they have (its at a pretty happy optimum now). Therefore: I object to your position. Try changing your approach and you might see something of what I do in it. Its challenging but in a very stimulating and enjoyable way once you sort out how to play it (which is true for any good game.).
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
My character Tsin'xing
A cool map where situational awareness and a bit of team play let you rock it just fine and that even without extraordinary gear or DPS.
I think I have played it some 50 times the past weekend on advanced in pugs and with new fleet members as well as elite with reliable team-mates. The modification of fail conditions made puggig normal mode obsolete for me because the influence of a single individual in advance can be that high that it can save up to 66% of a stage.
Cryptic did especially well in advanced and the fact that the mark reward is directly correlated to the teams performance ensuring a positive game atmosphere.
Yes, the enemy strikes hard even on Normal but none of my 9 toons with all different kinds of builds had any considerable problems.
I also recommend making heavy use of the terrain there and advertise to everybody to totally focus on the mission objectives. A great deal of enemy critters vanishes the moment a stage is cleared.
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