Piloting: Immelman Turn?

artaniscreed

Hopefully one of the consoles will provide.

rattler2

That would probably fit better on Shuttles than starships. Don't forget, we're talking ships with crews from 80 to 1000+. Yes, Rock and Roll makes our ships do a Barrel Roll, but you gotta consider that is less stress on the hull than a high power turn would be. Small ones might be able to, but we don't know how big these new ships will be. They could range from Defiant to Akira size for all we know.

nadiezja

Didn't that cease to be a viable dogfighting maneuver before World War II?

azntrigboi

nadiezja wrote: »

Didn't that cease to be a viable dogfighting maneuver before World War II?

Technically, it's a generic maneuver used to preserve as much energy as possible while you change your direction 180 degrees.

Also, as to rattler's point, I thought hull stresses were mitigated by inertial dampers?

rattler2

There's only so much Inertial Dampers can do.

For example, why have we not seen in canon anything larger than a Constellation pull off the Picard Maneuver? Odds are anything larger would have the Dampers strained to the breaking point pulling it off and the ship using the maneuver may be damaged. In one of the Gateways books, Counselor Troi is given temporary command of a Saber class, and she used the Picard Maneuver at one point in combat because the Saber is a smaller ship than a Sovereign.

The point remains however. Even with Inertial Dampers, physics come into play, and the larger the object, the more force exerted sort of thing. And weren't Inertial Dampers designed to keep the crew from getting squshed by the ship just moving, like how you can feel the shift when a car turns?

dabelgrave

You can do similar by using reverse throttle while turning.

azntrigboi

Well, I wasn't too sure how inertial dampers worked anyways. In terms of STO, we already have Aux to Damp which tightens your turning, so perhaps, it's just an issue of how much power you push into the system.

Also, Immelman's can have a large or small radius. It doesn't always have to be a high stress maneuver. In fact, in aircraft, the more gradual the turn, the more energy you preserve. I think we could have something where bigger ships just have a larger turning radius with this maneuver.

cptjhunter

I love washing splattered crewmen off the bulkheads ,after a particularly gruelling maneuver.:D

demonicaesthetic

nadiezja wrote: »

Didn't that cease to be a viable dogfighting maneuver before World War II?

Technically it ceased to be viable when people stopped using big heavy rotary engines where the prop is bolted to the engine block and the block rotates around a shaft bolted to the plane, the massive torque made turning to the right much easier than turning to the left.

Max Immelman used that to turn faster.

The name got reused for a half loop/half roll combo later on.

Since ships in STO can't loop, technically you can't do an 'immelman' so you do an all stop/reverse/all ahead turn instead. There's no popular cool air-pilot name for this as planes fall out of the sky if you try this, unless they are VTOL's.

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tigrovaya13akula

nadiezja wrote: »

Didn't that cease to be a viable dogfighting maneuver before World War II?

demonicaesthetic wrote: »

Technically it ceased to be viable when people stopped using big heavy rotary engines where the prop is bolted to the engine block and the block rotates around a shaft bolted to the plane, the massive torque made turning to the right much easier than turning to the left.

Max Immelman used that to turn faster.

The name got reused for a half loop/half roll combo later on.

Since ships in STO can't loop, technically you can't do an 'immelman' so you do an all stop/reverse/all ahead turn instead. There's no popular cool air-pilot name for this as planes fall out of the sky if you try this, unless they are VTOL's.

Nope, most definitely not. The Immelmann turn is very much alive and well in modern aviation today & will probably continue to be a viable maneuver for quite some time.

An F-22 Raptor performing it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eiskRcC2ys

A Blue Angels Aviator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcWDieGjtOg


The Immelmann turn actually refers to two different aircraft maneuvers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immelmann_turn

royalsovereign

colonelmarik wrote: »

The point in Star Trek has always been to present these like WW2 battleships, not dogfighters.

Didn't you watch 'Battleship"? ;D

wildeye042

I hope not (or only for small craft). I'm already forced to pilot a carrier like the galaxy's worst fighter with most of the new skills and traits biased toward dog fighting and "knife fight" range as it is.

demonicaesthetic

tigrovaya13akula wrote: »

The Immelmann turn actually refers to two different aircraft maneuvers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immelmann_turn

Yes, I know, I said that...

The torque based tight stall turn used by Immelmann in WWI, and the half-loop/half-roll combo used today, pull back in the stick till you're flying upside down in the opposite direction at higher altitude, then a half roll to end up right side up, half-loop/half-roll.

rmy1081

There's some lockbox console that reverses one's direction in the game already, but it would be cool to have one with some animation and be from the c-store.

emacsheadroom

I'd like to see a trek version of the Herbst maneuver.

edwardianed

rattler2 wrote: »

For example, why have we not seen in canon anything larger than a Constellation pull off the Picard Maneuver? Odds are anything larger would have the Dampers strained to the breaking point pulling it off and the ship using the maneuver may be damaged.

I doubt it, the Picard maneuver is just jumping into and out of warp, which is exactly the conditions the inertial damper system is designed to operate in

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