12-16hr DOFF Assignments Before and After

linksword01

http://i.imgur.com/1rFH90i.png

Behold the adjusted numbers.

welcome2earf

Yeah - these aren't all 12-hour missions. Care to comment Bort? Is this WAI?

dylantrinidy

I often wonder what is going through the minds of the devs at cryptic, are any CUSTOMERS actually in favor of this change? No? then why do it?

cidjack

I have been looking at this screen shot for the past day, I assume the before pics are on the left, and the after on the right? I ask as the ones on the right have increased amounts to skill points, CXP, etc. The resettle colonist one, I cannot see enough information to show all amounts, to me they look the same.

Clarification is needed here, all I have been reading and hearing is nerf, nerf, nerf. The Devs are the only ones who have provided facts.

sqwished

welcome2earf wrote: »

Yeah - these aren't all 12-hour missions. Care to comment Bort? Is this WAI?

According to Geko on twitter its down to a misplaced decimal point. Which has taken them a couple of years to track down!

markhawkman

sqwished wrote: »

According to Geko on twitter its down to a misplaced decimal point. Which has taken them a couple of years to track down!

More like it took them a few years to get around to fixing it.... But yeah, Apparently there are several layers of reward tables for doff missions. One of them is a multiplier for adjusting outcome based on time, and that's the one they fixed.

somebob

The 12 hour missions as they are now are RIGHT.

http://i.imgur.com/0KMlESf.png

So, yes, this is another nerf.

markhawkman

Cherry picking much?

lets try it with less cherry picking....

http://marhawkman.deviantart.com/art/25m-1-5h-530978168

25m:
133 xp/85 cxp (requires a holographic doff, easy to get) per hour: ~320/204

30m:
46/46 (per hour: 92/92)
187/109 (gives 1-4 contraband) 374/218
37/41 (eats commods, gives EC) 74/82
240/133 (eats a doff) 480/266
46/46 (92/92)
240/133 (480/266)
46/46 (92/92)
46/46 (92/92)
46/46 (92/92)

average xp per hour: 208 But, most of these give LESS than 100 per hour.

45m:
42/43 (gives crafting mats) 56/57
42/43 (gives crafting mats) 56/57
54/? (gives vendortrash) 72/?
64/54 (vendortrash, mostly mines) 85/72

average: 67 hmm... also less than 100/hour

1h:
87/64
43/44
84/62 (eats a med supply)
87/64
87/64
56/50 (gives crafting mats)
98/69 (eats 2 med supply)

average; 77 also less than 100

http://marhawkman.deviantart.com/art/2-4h-530978457

2h:
50/47 (gives a buff on crit) 25/24
112/75 (56/38)
64/54 (32/27)
112/75 (56/38)
112/75 (56/38)
112/75 (56/38)

average: 47

3h:
132/84 (gives crafting mats) 44/28
109/74 (36/25)
84/62 (28/21)

average: 36 Heh, getting smaller...

4h:
155/440 (eats 5 med supply, gives bonus dil) 39/110
155/440 (requires Shroud, gives bonus dil) 39/110
62/53 (15/13)
481/241 (requires Shroud) 120/60
245/135 (61/34)
187/109 (eats and gives GPL) 47/27
160/444 (needs resolve, gives bonus dil) 40/111
140/426 (gives bonus dil) 33/107
147/91 (chain, eats commods) 37/23
160/444 (needs shroud, gives bonus dil) 40/111
124/81 (31/20)
245/135 (61/34)
280/151 (eats 2 med supply) 70/38
155/440 (bonus dil) 39/110

Average: 48

http://marhawkman.deviantart.com/art/6h-530978685

6h:
330/597 (eats commods, bonus dil) 55/100
441/223 (74/37)
330/597 (eats commods, bonus dil) 55/100
360/187 (60/31)
294/157 (49/26)
240/516 (requires TK, bonus dil) 40/86
187/468 (bonus dil) (31/78
280/151 (requires 1 ent Prov) 47/25
360/187 (60/31)

Average 52

http://marhawkman.deviantart.com/art/8h-530979573

8h:
329/596 (bonus dil, requires TK) 41/74
134/85 (17/11)
112/75 (14/10)
112/75 (14/10)
314/166 (chain, eats an ent Prov) 39/21
356/185 (needs resolve and commods, bonus dil) 45/23
449/227 (eats 5 contraband) 56/28
44/45 (random item) 6/6
54/49 (random item) 7/6
44/45 (random item) 6/6
44/45 (random item) 6/6
518/767 (requires TK, eats cntraband, bonus dil) 65/96
139/425 (bonus dil) 17/53
112/238 (14/30)
269/542 (eats ent prov) 34/68
314/166 (eats 6 synthale, requires bartenders) 39/21
209/119 (26/15)
179/461 (requires shroud, bonus dil) 22/58
219/497 (requies telepath, bonus dil) 27/62

average xp: 23 per hour

http://marhawkman.deviantart.com/art/12-20h-530979834

12h:
1202/566 (100/47)
1202/2310 (100/193)

average 100 xp per hour.... um yeah... you really gona tell me that looks right?

20h:
673/1304 (eats Bateret) 34/65
299/593 (15/30)
179/294 (9/15)
336/664 (eats a blue R&D mat) 17/33
349/688 (chain, eats Nepeta) 17/34
640/1241 (32/62)
523/810 (eats a med supply) 26/41
164/271 (bad klingons you're supposed to GIVE information to the Orions) 8/14
145/90 (7/5)
149/92 (7/5)
194/112 (10/60
149/167 (spend EC to buy deployables) (7/8)
149/167 (spend EC to buy deployables) (7/8)
149/167 (spend EC to buy deployables) (7/8)
116/199 (6/100
149/249 (7/12)

average xp per hour 13....

now for the LONG ones: http://marhawkman.deviantart.com/art/40-72h-530979995

40h:
280/445 (7/11)

48h:
164/271 (3/6)
197/321 (4/7)
197/400 (4/8)

72h:
673/1035 (eats provisions) 9/14
692/1341 (requires a photonic doff) 10/19

Yeah that's right... those 12 hour assignments have better BASE rewards than almost every one of the longer assignments!

So yeah... I don't see how this is "right" as is....

darkjeff

cidjack wrote: »

Clarification is needed here, all I have been reading and hearing is nerf, nerf, nerf. The Devs are the only ones who have provided facts.

Considering that literally everyone, players and developers, are saying it's been decreased, what ridiculous train of thought leads you to conclude the numbers on the left are pre-fix and the numbers on the right are post-fix?

kurgis1

Whilst the fixing of this is regretable from an exp point of view (not buying pilot ships as i'll never have any spec points to fully utilise them, or train boffs in what I want), what concerns me is the drop in CXP that the 6hr SAFN mission seems to show.

For small fleets that I am in CXP over 100k has been the only way to consistently gain the amount of fleet marks to progress the starbase. I'll wait for after the patch and do some testing before commenting further.

staq16

markhawkman wrote: »

Cherry picking much?

(SNIP numerate analysis of DOffing)

Yeah that's right... those 12 hour assignments have better BASE rewards than almost every one of the longer assignments!

So yeah... I don't see how this is "right" as is....

I've heard 3 credible reasons:

1. Original designer's intent, encourage a gameplay style which rewards twice-daily logging in.

2. Most of the 12hr missions were KDF, and introduced as a deliberate measure to assist KDF levelling when their mission arcs were very patchy.

3. Gamification - part of the gameplay in DOffing is touring the galaxy to track down those high-reward assignments. Those 12h assignments are a lot rarer than 20h ones.

IMO, the 2nd is now nugatory as the KDF have a full arc. 1 could still be valid if Cyptic have it as a metric, but 3 should be the main one.

markhawkman

staq16 wrote: »

I've heard 3 credible reasons:

1. Original designer's intent, encourage a gameplay style which rewards twice-daily logging in.

2. Most of the 12hr missions were KDF, and introduced as a deliberate measure to assist KDF levelling when their mission arcs were very patchy.

3. Gamification - part of the gameplay in DOffing is touring the galaxy to track down those high-reward assignments. Those 12h assignments are a lot rarer than 20h ones.

IMO, the 2nd is now nugatory as the KDF have a full arc. 1 could still be valid if Cyptic have it as a metric, but 3 should be the main one.

assuming that those are correct.... It still makes no sense for them to have a higher base payout than longer assignments.

higher xp per hour? sure... that's ok. But as-is it's ridiculous.... the best 20 hour assignments have around half the reward for almost double the time.

Longer assignments should not be WORSE then medium assignments.

Also... #3 is arguably false since the locations where the 12hr assignments were found was not highly spread out.

centaurianalpha

Well, Cryptic just removed most of the reason to do any DOffing, especially when it comes to 12+ hour missions! The rewards depicted by Markhawkman are a pittance of what should be expected for a long-duration mission.

And to think that I spent a fortune in dil upgrading my DOff roster! The only place the VR DOffs have any real value now is in the Fleet mine, R&D, and active duty slots. I can see now I will never have to buy another Duty Officer expansion again... :mad:

Cryptic is expert in one thing: finding ways to turn off the flow of cash from the players!

arrmateys

i may be remembering it wrong, but didn't blue doffs have 15% and purple doffs 30% reward upgrade on crit?

if yeah, looks like it got reduced to 10% and 20%. if you want payout like before, spend money and gamble for those ultra rares, because you won't get any from the academy missions.

markhawkman

arrmateys wrote: »

i may be remembering it wrong,

Indeed, AFAIK it's always been 0/5/10/20

centaurianalpha wrote: »

WThe rewards depicted by Markhawkman are a pittance of what should be expected for a long-duration mission.

This I have to agree with... most of the long missions are a waste of time.

xablis

Just a little something I noticed today: a fed hosting a diplomatic reception (zero risk assignment) with a crit paid out over 3k spec xp (with a mix of blue and purple doffs), a kdf gorn rebel suppression with a crit (high risk mission) with all 5 doffs involved being purple with at least 2 positive traits and no negative traits paid out just over 2k spec xp. Now the reception doesn't take much in the way of supplies either, while the rebel suppression takes both provisions and medical supplies, neither one gives "special" rewards other than pure spec xp, expertise, cxp, and minimal dilithium, so what gives?

architect13

A specialization point is still 160k? . . I feel like banging my head against a wall.

mattaukett

Looks to me like the 12 hour KDF espionage missions that take contraband as an input have become absolute garbage now. 1 or 2 contraband for a mission that pays out a couple of hundred XP and CXP with minimal (i.e. 5) dilithium under normal payout conditions, just not even worth the database space it's taking up now given the other uses for that contraband.

markhawkman

xablis wrote: »

Just a little something I noticed today: a fed hosting a diplomatic reception (zero risk assignment) with a crit paid out over 3k spec xp (with a mix of blue and purple doffs), a kdf gorn rebel suppression with a crit (high risk mission) with all 5 doffs involved being purple with at least 2 positive traits and no negative traits paid out just over 2k spec xp. Now the reception doesn't take much in the way of supplies either, while the rebel suppression takes both provisions and medical supplies, neither one gives "special" rewards other than pure spec xp, expertise, cxp, and minimal dilithium, so what gives?

Reception has pretty steep doff requirements. It requires a Diplomat, Security officer, Chef, Bartender, and Entertainer. These are mandatory, not simply success traits.

xablis

markhawkman wrote: »

Reception has pretty steep doff requirements. It requires a Diplomat, Security officer, Chef, Bartender, and Entertainer. These are mandatory, not simply success traits.

Ok, here is an even better comparison for the disparity now. Confiscate contraband from crew (30 min and 2 security officers) with a crit gives nearly the same spec xp reward as a suppress gorn rebels mission (12 hours and 5 doffs + commodities), plus you get contraband and other random little rewards. Please explain how that "normalization" works?

edit: actually talking a crit on the gorn mission. The actual base mission spec xp reward for the base mission is higher on confiscate contraband than on suppress gorn rebels.

markhawkman

xablis wrote: »

Ok, here is an even better comparison for the disparity now. Confiscate contraband from crew (30 min and 2 security officers) with a crit gives nearly the same spec xp reward as a suppress gorn rebels mission (12 hours and 5 doffs + commodities), plus you get contraband and other random little rewards. Please explain how that "normalization" works?

edit: actually talking a crit on the gorn mission. The actual base mission spec xp reward for the base mission is higher on confiscate contraband than on suppress gorn rebels.

Well, confiscate contraband is an anomaly to begin with since it has around 4x the rewards of most missions of that length. Most of them on the list I made have 92, granted, the Gorn suppression mission is STILL TRIBBLE for xp, but it's not as bad when compared to an "average" 30 min mission.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

architect13

Make nerfing xp top priority . . . hmmmm, the lag . . . not so much.

tehbubbaloo

what are you guys worried about?

pwlaughingtrendy wrote: »

But here's the other side of things. I learned a lot about what's coming. I talked to the team and communicated the concerns of everyone. There is stuff that is coming that is helping fix the 50-60 level curve. I can't get into details about everything (because hey, unreleased content). That being said, there is something in the works to make it a lot better for ya'll.

great news! how does 200xp added to each episode replay, and the cstore xp boosts buffed by a whopping 10% sound?! cryptics always looking out for you

bones1970

kurgis1 wrote: »

Whilst the fixing of this is regretable from an exp point of view (not buying pilot ships as i'll never have any spec points to fully utilise them, or train boffs in what I want), what concerns me is the drop in CXP that the 6hr SAFN mission seems to show.

For small fleets that I am in CXP over 100k has been the only way to consistently gain the amount of fleet marks to progress the starbase. I'll wait for after the patch and do some testing before commenting further.

So far what i seen is that i get 1/2 to 1/3 th of the xp that i got before, so its a big nerve.
It will take longer to get 10.000 xp for the 75 fm's, big nerve !!!!

They going to fix the level curve from 50 to 60, what about the rest ?? after i'm level 60 i still need 35 more skill points (to level 95) thats were i have a big problem !!!

kurgis1

bones1970 wrote: »

So far what i seen is that i get 1/2 to 1/3 th of the xp that i got before, so its a big nerve.
It will take longer to get 10.000 xp for the 75 fm's, big nerve !!!!

They going to fix the level curve from 50 to 60, what about the rest ?? after i'm level 60 i still need 35 more skill points (to level 95) thats were i have a big problem !!!

Oh I hear you and understand. I've been playing mmo's for over 20 years and this is a very (to use Gecko's own phrase) "aggressive" end game system, or rather the requirements are to get anywhere, or to even feel like getting anywhere.

I was on CD yesterday and i'll go check the last loc that I think could give out reasonable exp for leveling and for FM's from doffing (Not that I expect it to last long before its changed).

Interestingly just critted Strike Against Fugitive Network with 3 purps and it gave out 2317 SKP, 2572 Spec Exp and 976 Marauder CXP(!).

Surely i'm not going senile in my old age and that was giving out Military CXP pre patch this week..

breadandcircuses

markhawkman wrote: »

Longer assignments should not be WORSE then medium assignments.

Then why did the "fix" leave almost every 12 hr assignment rewarding less spec xp than the 3 hr "Send a Representative to a Security Breifing _____", a 6 hr round of "Dabo!", or even several of the Personal missions that grant a character buff on crit? The old numbers may have been high, but the "correction" looks anomalously low compared to most assignments. They're now granting about as much specialization xp as the 2 hr Science assignments... for a 12 hr mission.

Really, do the full listings you had before with the new outcomes, and tell us that it isn't still an outlier... just now it's in a way that is worse for players.

I still don't think they have a clue where they put that supposed decimal...

internetonsetadd

Suppress Gorn Uprising -- success, using 5 VR doffs -- dropped from 8496 to 849 XP. You'd now have to run it 188 times to get one spec point, assuming no crits. There's absolutely no point in running it anymore, given such pathetic rewards and its propensity for injuring doffs.

In fact, from a skill point perspective, for players who like to doff, there's no reason for established characters to even leave a starbase at all. Why bother? The rewarding 12-hour missions are no more. Might as well just leave all your toons a few feet away from contraband turn-in. Indeed, I'll probably turn more contraband in now than before, if I can remember some reason to even log in at all outside of habit. What an amazing Star Trek experience -- contraband turn-in, now with more lag. Destroying longstanding incentives to go out and explore the galaxy at endgame -- that's some serious game design right there.

I don't believe for a second that this is what Heretic intended when he made the doffing system. And I will never believe anyone from a company that's trying to sell players a single spec point's worth of XP for $156 when there are 105 spec points to unlock. You can't simultaneously sell XP for such an outrageous price and be believed when you dramatically alter how quickly players earn it. I don't believe you.

You're either liars or bad game designers, or perhaps both.

amezuki

internetonsetadd wrote: »

In fact, from a skill point perspective, for players who like to doff, there's no reason for established characters to even leave a starbase at all. Why bother?

Because some of us doff for more reasons than just grinding spec points.

jerichoredoran

Before patch we had 12h assignments giving about 550 cxp, 1900 cxp or even 2900 cxp.
So where should the decimal error be there? With such a spread its definately something else. But obviously cryptic doesnt know what themselfes.
Several of the 12h missions now give 1/10 of old reward others still 1/2...

Edit: now everybody park in space battle zone. 5h assignments for 500-600 cxp.
And without a notice its not limited to 3 or 4 missions anymore.

Nerf inc...

roadghost

Yep, I'm grumbling about this as well. C'mon cryti-guys and gals. WTH?!? My biggie was Provide Shore Leave Services. Eats 10 Entertainment Provisions for 300 CXPs now. Seriously? Hitting Crit on that was the only reason I logged in half my characters. It was a thrill to see 15-25k CXP points. For no other reason than seeing them. Shiny! Now.. hit crit on it today, got 1500 points. Why bother. Glad I like leveling my Delta's cause doffing just went meh.