I wish they would spin off PVP onto Red Shirt and leave it there like Tribble. Yes clone your charecter onto it and have at it but no bringing stuff over from PVP into PVE. This way PVPer's get there own little world to bash the hell out of each other in but have no effect on the PVE game.
PvPers complain about some power that PvEers like to use and it gets nerfed. PvEers don't care about making things fair since all they do is fight emotionless npcs that don't complain about being griefed while good PvPers do.
PvPers complain about some power that PvEers like to use and it gets nerfed. PvEers don't care about making things fair since all they do is fight emotionless npcs that don't complain about being griefed while good PvPers do.
I have yet to hear ONE single PVP player complain they were over powered compared to other PVP players. They never complain when they are the griefer but they do complain when somebody gets a new shiney that kicks thier rear end instead of learning new tactics or improving thier own gear set they cry and cry no fair no fair. As long as they can kick someones rear end they are happy but good help you if they are no longer top dog. I have news for you sunshine life isn't fair or balenced someone will ALWAYS be better then you at something you either deal with it by learning news skills or getting better gear.
well...we already don't have any measurable effect on the PvE game. (Sorry to break it to ya, but PvP is not even on the radar with the Developers-it's not merely low priority, it's not even a priority. but PvP has zero influence on what the devs do-they do what they want to do, and use the metrics to justify doing it.
You epicly and utterly missed my point! Epic Fail!
Here goes. Complicated, I know, but it's the best (and actually "lore appropriate"!!!) version of "Open PvP" I can think of:
1. The "Basics":
There are three "levels" of PvP classification. Open, "restricted", and "protected". All players and most regions are "classified" under one of these three titles.
A player can only initiate PvP combat in a region that matches, or exceeds, their classification.
A player can only initiate combat against a player at or below their classification.
A player who has reached Tier 3 in Diplomacy / Marauding, or is under the effect of the buffs Diplomatic Immunity / Raiding Party, can not be challenged by any player. However, if the player with this effect initiates a PvP combat, this protection is removed for the duration of combat and the player can be challenged by anyone of equal rank, extending the combat appropriately...
Yes, this means that an "open" player can start a fight anywhere, while the more advanced people can't start a fight in a lot of places - but then again, that advanced player can't be challenged by the lower ranked one under any circumstances, though if the circumstances are correct the higher player can start a PvP against the lower one...
2. The "Classifications" for Players:
Open - the level you start at from creation, because at this point "you're a participant in the KDF / Federation war"
Restricted - applied as soon as a player begins to advance on a reputation or specialization track. At this point, since you're running cross faction queues, the war for you has "degenerated" to cold-war status. You're not allowed to go randomly sniping everyone you meet anymore, however, you are still allowed to prevent random assaults on the "empire's territories"...
Protected - applied as soon as you run the storyline mission that initiates the peace treaty. At this point, the war's over, but you are still allowed to / tasked with protecting the home sectors.
3. The "Classifications", for Regions:
Open regions include most of Eta Eriandi, all of the Alpha Quadrant (including Deferi regions and DS9).
Restricted regions include a 5 LY radius from the fleet starbases, the Regulus Sector (for Feds), Pi Canis (For KDF).
Protected regions include the faction bases in EE (Sherman System & Gandala) with the standard 5 LY radius around them, Sirius (for Fed), Omega Leonis (for KDF). All remaining Regions (Romulan Space, Delta Quadrant, the Spheres, Gamma Orisonis, etc.) are "PvP free" zones.
4. To put some of this in practice:
A "new" character is allowed to start fights anywhere in the "Federation" or "Klingon" areas of the Beta Quadrant and the entirety of the Alpha Quadrant. They can engage anyone who has not started a reputation track and/or completed the war in the storyline.
The people who have started reputation / specialization tracks are tasked with "protecting" the more homeward areas - Regulus, Pi Canis (as appropriate), the fleet bases, etc. They can challenge those "open level" and "restricted level" punks who dare to infringe on their "side's holdings", but can't annoy those who are "at peace" with the opponent side.
Once peace is declared, you're done shooting at other players until and unless they are presenting an egregious violation of the terms of the cease fire. Therefore, you cannot start a fight against an opponent anywhere but the most important of regions (the home sectors and the main bases in the neutral zone), but you are expected to stomp on anyone who is presenting a threat in these areas.
If you pay attention, the classifications that "choke off" open PvP start to ramp up when the power creep really starts accelerating - yet the sector restrictions allow those of a PvP bent to be the "police" of the "noob" areas... Also, the fact that you can "ignore" / skip the reputation, specialization, and peace-treaty mission(s) lets the open PvPer remain an open PvPer for as long as he or she desires.
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Setting aside the fact that the devs almost never go for community ideas...
#1 This would have to be opt-in opt-out as i think some people have probably already mentioned. Otherwise you will player QQ like when WoW did the undead invasion event when WOTLK was about to get released. Lots of people in the city who were just doing stuff didnt like that they were getting their routine interrupted by player controlled zombies and that they too ended up dying or turning into zombies.
#2 Regarding all the "well Fed and KDF are at peace now so this setting would not make sense". I have mentioned in that past that KDF-Fed pvp could still work IF they made the setting like that of a wargame. The Feds have a chapter episode where your ship along with several others conduct a wargame with another federation ship. So it is still plausable that in this era even with holo tech they still go out and conduct simulations without the aid of holo equipment. One of the KDF episodes has you defending Qonos against Felkhri (sp) demons and of course the Fed episode has you defending/foiling an Undine invasion on ESD. So that is how you would do it...Feds and KDF conduct wargames on each other so that they can better defend themselves for when the "real" invasion happens. KDF would defend Qonos and Fed would be the aggressors, and then it would flip around with Fed defending ESD and KDF acting as the aggressors.
#3 Additional stuff on how i think this could be implemented. In any ground PVP battle, assuming there are no player boffs, no NPCs of any kind, and minimal moving objects/animations what is the max number of people you can get on a map? Can a 20v20 trimmed down map of Qonos/ESD/New Romulus be done? I think that for this maybe a Wintergrasp type mechanic would work best. Every hour on top of the hour the fight would commence and have it last say 30 minutes. After the match is up then you have 30 minutes until the next one starts. And maybe 5-10 minutes until it starts you can queue up for it so once the match starts everyone gets ported to the Qonos/ESD battle instance and not the actual/regular Qonos/ESD instances where normal people do their business.
And maybe make it objective based too and maybe have it be random. The fight starts and the system does a random roll to determine what objective #1 will be and once it is shown to all players then you have 5 minutes to carry it out. It could be stuff like kill XX number of opposing players, set demolition charges in club 47/kdf sparring circle, kill Admiral Quinn NPC or General Blarlarlar (they would be the only NPC in there).
Or maybe scratch all that and just make the whole thing a ticket type match like in battlefield or alterac valley. Each side starts with 200 tickets and each player killed deducts 1 ticket from that. Maybe put minor objectives on the map that players can capture which deducts tickets from the opposing team when captured.
Number 3 can be done however they wanted to. But i number 2 can easily be addressed by labeling the pvp match as an exercise or a wargame instead of a fight to the death.
yet the sector restrictions allow those of a PvP bent to be the "police" of the "noob" areas...
Interesting...
Automatic opt-in for PvP on charachter creation, AND handing cop badges to the criminals...
Outstanding!
NO!
<center><font size="+5"><b>Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day... Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
I have yet to hear ONE single PVP player complain they were over powered compared to other PVP players. They never complain when they are the griefer but they do complain when somebody gets a new shiney that kicks thier rear end instead of learning new tactics or improving thier own gear set they cry and cry no fair no fair. As long as they can kick someones rear end they are happy but good help you if they are no longer top dog. I have news for you sunshine life isn't fair or balenced someone will ALWAYS be better then you at something you either deal with it by learning news skills or getting better gear.
So I guess you weren't in kerat when I killed one of my kdf friends with tractor beam repulsors, then said they should probably not have 100% shield bypass, same with isokinetic cannon. There are plenty of pvpers that take advantage of overpowered game mechanics, but there are a lot more that want a balanced experience. At least when there used to be pvpers. Wonder if people would come back if it were balanced. But then the pve people would moan about how pvpers nerfed (balanced) everything.
Comments
I'm not sure how it affects the PvE game now...
PvPers complain about some power that PvEers like to use and it gets nerfed. PvEers don't care about making things fair since all they do is fight emotionless npcs that don't complain about being griefed while good PvPers do.
I have yet to hear ONE single PVP player complain they were over powered compared to other PVP players. They never complain when they are the griefer but they do complain when somebody gets a new shiney that kicks thier rear end instead of learning new tactics or improving thier own gear set they cry and cry no fair no fair. As long as they can kick someones rear end they are happy but good help you if they are no longer top dog. I have news for you sunshine life isn't fair or balenced someone will ALWAYS be better then you at something you either deal with it by learning news skills or getting better gear.
You epicly and utterly missed my point! Epic Fail!
1. The "Basics":
There are three "levels" of PvP classification. Open, "restricted", and "protected". All players and most regions are "classified" under one of these three titles.
A player can only initiate PvP combat in a region that matches, or exceeds, their classification.
A player can only initiate combat against a player at or below their classification.
A player who has reached Tier 3 in Diplomacy / Marauding, or is under the effect of the buffs Diplomatic Immunity / Raiding Party, can not be challenged by any player. However, if the player with this effect initiates a PvP combat, this protection is removed for the duration of combat and the player can be challenged by anyone of equal rank, extending the combat appropriately...
Yes, this means that an "open" player can start a fight anywhere, while the more advanced people can't start a fight in a lot of places - but then again, that advanced player can't be challenged by the lower ranked one under any circumstances, though if the circumstances are correct the higher player can start a PvP against the lower one...
2. The "Classifications" for Players:
Open - the level you start at from creation, because at this point "you're a participant in the KDF / Federation war"
Restricted - applied as soon as a player begins to advance on a reputation or specialization track. At this point, since you're running cross faction queues, the war for you has "degenerated" to cold-war status. You're not allowed to go randomly sniping everyone you meet anymore, however, you are still allowed to prevent random assaults on the "empire's territories"...
Protected - applied as soon as you run the storyline mission that initiates the peace treaty. At this point, the war's over, but you are still allowed to / tasked with protecting the home sectors.
3. The "Classifications", for Regions:
Open regions include most of Eta Eriandi, all of the Alpha Quadrant (including Deferi regions and DS9).
Restricted regions include a 5 LY radius from the fleet starbases, the Regulus Sector (for Feds), Pi Canis (For KDF).
Protected regions include the faction bases in EE (Sherman System & Gandala) with the standard 5 LY radius around them, Sirius (for Fed), Omega Leonis (for KDF). All remaining Regions (Romulan Space, Delta Quadrant, the Spheres, Gamma Orisonis, etc.) are "PvP free" zones.
4. To put some of this in practice:
A "new" character is allowed to start fights anywhere in the "Federation" or "Klingon" areas of the Beta Quadrant and the entirety of the Alpha Quadrant. They can engage anyone who has not started a reputation track and/or completed the war in the storyline.
The people who have started reputation / specialization tracks are tasked with "protecting" the more homeward areas - Regulus, Pi Canis (as appropriate), the fleet bases, etc. They can challenge those "open level" and "restricted level" punks who dare to infringe on their "side's holdings", but can't annoy those who are "at peace" with the opponent side.
Once peace is declared, you're done shooting at other players until and unless they are presenting an egregious violation of the terms of the cease fire. Therefore, you cannot start a fight against an opponent anywhere but the most important of regions (the home sectors and the main bases in the neutral zone), but you are expected to stomp on anyone who is presenting a threat in these areas.
If you pay attention, the classifications that "choke off" open PvP start to ramp up when the power creep really starts accelerating - yet the sector restrictions allow those of a PvP bent to be the "police" of the "noob" areas... Also, the fact that you can "ignore" / skip the reputation, specialization, and peace-treaty mission(s) lets the open PvPer remain an open PvPer for as long as he or she desires.
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
#1 This would have to be opt-in opt-out as i think some people have probably already mentioned. Otherwise you will player QQ like when WoW did the undead invasion event when WOTLK was about to get released. Lots of people in the city who were just doing stuff didnt like that they were getting their routine interrupted by player controlled zombies and that they too ended up dying or turning into zombies.
#2 Regarding all the "well Fed and KDF are at peace now so this setting would not make sense". I have mentioned in that past that KDF-Fed pvp could still work IF they made the setting like that of a wargame. The Feds have a chapter episode where your ship along with several others conduct a wargame with another federation ship. So it is still plausable that in this era even with holo tech they still go out and conduct simulations without the aid of holo equipment. One of the KDF episodes has you defending Qonos against Felkhri (sp) demons and of course the Fed episode has you defending/foiling an Undine invasion on ESD. So that is how you would do it...Feds and KDF conduct wargames on each other so that they can better defend themselves for when the "real" invasion happens. KDF would defend Qonos and Fed would be the aggressors, and then it would flip around with Fed defending ESD and KDF acting as the aggressors.
#3 Additional stuff on how i think this could be implemented. In any ground PVP battle, assuming there are no player boffs, no NPCs of any kind, and minimal moving objects/animations what is the max number of people you can get on a map? Can a 20v20 trimmed down map of Qonos/ESD/New Romulus be done? I think that for this maybe a Wintergrasp type mechanic would work best. Every hour on top of the hour the fight would commence and have it last say 30 minutes. After the match is up then you have 30 minutes until the next one starts. And maybe 5-10 minutes until it starts you can queue up for it so once the match starts everyone gets ported to the Qonos/ESD battle instance and not the actual/regular Qonos/ESD instances where normal people do their business.
And maybe make it objective based too and maybe have it be random. The fight starts and the system does a random roll to determine what objective #1 will be and once it is shown to all players then you have 5 minutes to carry it out. It could be stuff like kill XX number of opposing players, set demolition charges in club 47/kdf sparring circle, kill Admiral Quinn NPC or General Blarlarlar (they would be the only NPC in there).
Or maybe scratch all that and just make the whole thing a ticket type match like in battlefield or alterac valley. Each side starts with 200 tickets and each player killed deducts 1 ticket from that. Maybe put minor objectives on the map that players can capture which deducts tickets from the opposing team when captured.
Number 3 can be done however they wanted to. But i number 2 can easily be addressed by labeling the pvp match as an exercise or a wargame instead of a fight to the death.
there u can beging a pvp battle right there where u stand on any map without having to load in on a other map.
soo everyone can see how those 2 who challanged each other fight.
this would be superawesome on Qunos where there is that special ring with bathlet fighters. see where im going with all this?
p.s.: not to mention the very same thing in SPACE
ps2: while we are at it, id like to re-post one of my older topic i wrote about this very topic way back there: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=967881
Interesting...
Automatic opt-in for PvP on charachter creation, AND handing cop badges to the criminals...
Outstanding!
NO!
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
So I guess you weren't in kerat when I killed one of my kdf friends with tractor beam repulsors, then said they should probably not have 100% shield bypass, same with isokinetic cannon. There are plenty of pvpers that take advantage of overpowered game mechanics, but there are a lot more that want a balanced experience. At least when there used to be pvpers. Wonder if people would come back if it were balanced. But then the pve people would moan about how pvpers nerfed (balanced) everything.