"Most weapons are too puny. I make them strong." Klingon smash! DUH!

angrytarg

Once again, Klingons are portrayed as some fur wearing space orcs. I wonder how they ever managed to build solid structures...

If you don't know, this poetic masterpiece is spewed out by the Klingon Gorath who fill sthe position of chief tactical officer in operation "Delta Flight", the new FE.

dirlettia

And that is why people are convinced the KDF should not have Sci ships. It is a bit frustrating.

abaddon653

I will admit, I would love to see the result of five quantum warheads into one case.

reginamala78

Given that most of Delta Flight seems to be a Star Trek sort of Dirty (half) Dozen or The Expendibles, I think its more just 'the guy who likes overkill weapons.' I mean you've got The hotshot leader, the put-upon second-in-command, the weary veteran, the cocky anti-authority hacker, and the boisterous bruiser with a taste for big guns. Heck maybe they should have color-coded their ships. And he's gotta be some species, so why not Klingon?

demonicaesthetic

reginamala78 wrote: »

Given that most of Delta Flight seems to be a Star Trek sort of Dirty (half) Dozen or The Expendibles, I think its more just 'the guy who likes overkill weapons.' I mean you've got The hotshot leader, the put-upon second-in-command, the weary veteran, the cocky anti-authority hacker, and the boisterous bruiser with a taste for big guns. Heck maybe they should have color-coded their ships. And he's gotta be some species, so why not Klingon?

Magnificent Six...

We're missing the Ferrengi who thinks we are only going on the mission because there's a vault hidden someplace filled with GPL, and who keeps asking you if the leaders told you about it..

We need to shave Tom's head for that Yul Brynner look...

themetalstickman

reginamala78 wrote: »

Given that most of Delta Flight seems to be a Star Trek sort of Dirty (half) Dozen or The Expendibles, I think its more just 'the guy who likes overkill weapons.' I mean you've got The hotshot leader, the put-upon second-in-command, the weary veteran, the cocky anti-authority hacker, and the boisterous bruiser with a taste for big guns. Heck maybe they should have color-coded their ships. And he's gotta be some species, so why not Klingon?

I'm not quite sure where Kana Jinnis comes into this.

warmaker001b

The Klingon in that Delta Flight group is merely 1 eccentric out of a pack of eccentric. Then you look at the eccentric leader of that group, Tom Paris, and realize, they're all a bit loose

icsairguns

I agree with the targ.

id rather have seen a pakled with those lines cause thats all I could see after hearing that dribble.

captainoblivous

icsairguns wrote: »

I agree with the targ.

id rather have seen a pakled with those lines cause thats all I could see after hearing that dribble.

I was thinking Pakled too.

orangeitis

abaddon653 wrote: »

I will admit, I would love to see the result of five quantum warheads into one case.

This. There's Klingon violence, there's crazy violence... then there's crazy Klingon violence.

jellico1

In Gene Roddenburys Canon

During the war with the Federation

The Klingons developed and put into production as many or MORE

Warp engines
Weapons
impulse drives
Shields
New ship types including exploration ships.................During War !
And all of these systems were equal too or superior to Federation counterparts

Doesn't sound like the Klingons are lacking science development to me at all

markhawkman

jellico1 wrote: »

In Gene Roddenburys Canon

During the war with the Federation

The Klingons developed and put into production as many or MORE

Warp engines
Weapons
impulse drives
Shields
New ship types including exploration ships.................During War !
And all of these systems were equal too or superior to Federation counterparts

Doesn't sound like the Klingons are lacking science development to me at all

Interesting and highly far-reaching statement.... I'm curious as to the exact details of the info you used to come to this conclusion....

misterde3

markhawkman wrote: »

Interesting and highly far-reaching statement.... I'm curious as to the exact details of the info you used to come to this conclusion....

jellico1 considers the materials by FASA to be "Roddenberry's Canon" so I presume he's referring to the Four Years War and the D9 science cruiser.

dunnonutin

You guys are talking about Tom Paris here, given the time periods and types of holodeck programs he used it isn't exactly unexpected that he gathered those types of people for his team.

angrytarg

dunnonutin wrote: »

You guys are talking about Tom Paris here, given the time periods and types of holodeck programs he used it isn't exactly unexpected that he gathered those types of people for his team.

While this might be true there's hardly a Klingon in STO that doesn't act like this particular fellow. This is the problem I have.

questerius

abaddon653 wrote: »

I will admit, I would love to see the result of five quantum warheads into one case.

Don't worry with a remark like that it is only a matter of time before we see a quantum cluster torpedo.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

burstorion

orangeitis wrote: »

This. There's Klingon violence, there's crazy violence... then there's crazy Klingon violence.

Eh, hes small time - myself, I'd want to put five gravimetric photons in one shell, fire it at a singularity charge and watch the fireworks from far away

redvenge

angrytarg wrote: »

While this might be true there's hardly a Klingon in STO that doesn't act like this particular fellow. This is the problem I have.

I think some the best variety of Klingon personalities is actually Federation exclusive content: Doomsday Machine.

Just as many Star Trek shows revolve around "morality", this episode has a subplot of "honor", a concept that many Klingon captains probably wrestle with as much as far flung Federation explorers deal with "morality".

Killing civilians is not honorable, but what if those civilians are making weapons for the warrior caste of your enemy? I often thought situations like these could lead to interesting story arcs.

Overall, I can't be too hard on the story writers for having one Klingon stereotype they adhere to. Most of their characters are bland and forgettable stereotypes, so it's not like Klingons are singled out.

jellico1

markhawkman wrote: »

Interesting and highly far-reaching statement.... I'm curious as to the exact details of the info you used to come to this conclusion....

---

---

FASA Klingon ship reconigation manual

when it comes to Canon I side with Gene Roddenburys creations and not those who publish material after his death and not those who publish material in direct contridation to his creations

I see it as the horses mouth or the horses rear type of thing :P

angrytarg

jellico1 wrote: »

---

---

FASA Klingon ship reconigation manual

when it comes to Canon I side with Gene Roddenburys creations and not those who publish material after his death and not those who publish material in direct contridation to his creations

I see it as the horses mouth or the horses rear type of thing :P

That however means you cannot use those arguments ever in canon discussions, as it's not canon. I know where you are coming from, though, you have no idea how much I hate that I have to accept ENT and the TNG movies, but that's the way it is (in case of the later I am a strong supporter of the alternate timeline theory at least past FC, maybe even before).

jellico1

angrytarg wrote: »

That however means you cannot use those arguments ever in canon discussions, as it's not canon. I know where you are coming from, though, you have no idea how much I hate that I have to accept ENT and the TNG movies, but that's the way it is (in case of the later I am a strong supporter of the alternate timeline theory at least past FC, maybe even before).

---

---

Enterprise and jj trek I lump together in there own alternate Verse , so I don't have any problems enjoying them but I know there not Canon too

The movies.............are movies one cannot sderiously use a single movie as canon surpassing established canon by its creator , If it violates Canon..like the destruction of Vulcan..........It goes into a alternate Verse and has nothing to do with Canon its alternate

Movies like that I don't use in Canon dicussions because they have nothing to do with Canon :P They stand alone in there own Verse

The same as Enterprise..Its stand alone in its own Verse

mimey2

OR...you could interpret this Klingon as instead being extremely good in his field. Quantum torpedoes are far more complex than even our most advanced weapons we currently have. Even a single torpedo is probably an insane piece of technology to make it work. So to have the skill and know-how to not only fit, but make all five warheads actually work together is very impressive. A bit of messing around is needed, but he CAN do it.

Besides, Tom Paris IS flying a 'hero ship' (and is Tom Paris), so it's alright if he can have 'Torpedo: High Yield IV'.

yreodred

angrytarg wrote: »

While this might be true there's hardly a Klingon in STO that doesn't act like this particular fellow. This is the problem I have.

Obviously that's how cryptics devs see Klingons.
And i must admit, most klingons on TV where similar. Sure there where some notable exceptions, but the vast majority was portraied as drunk, big-mouthed, sneaky, and very flexible in their concept of "honor".
Even Worf the biggest source (for us) of Klignon culture was most of the time self-contradictory when talking about klingon culture.
For ex. taking hostages or not, "in war only victory is honorful" (so you can do everything you want, which ultimately excludes any code of honor) and so on



So for a outside observer Klingons must look like a brutal and dishonest and hypocritical bunch of space Orcs. (Sure Fed Captains where like that too on one or two occasion, but they where still the heroes of the shows which gave them some sympathy points)
Even WoWs orcs have some aspects which make them likeable or at least understanable in their actions afaik. While Treks Klingons seem to have ultimately only one motivation "kill all enemies".

I'm not speaking of my own opinion here, that's just how i think ppl see Klingons in STO or the shows.


For STO id like to see less of capt. Koren like klingons and more Klingons like Martok.

oldkhemaraa

*looks at the thread and gives a very deep world weary sigh*

Canon references to Klingons.

What counts as "Hard" cannon:

Material from all broadcast trek shows, Enterprise, Star Trek, next gen, DS-9, Voyager, and the non JJ abrams Trek movies.

What counts as "Soft" canon:

Everything from any and all star trek novels, books, games...and fan projects of any sort. and Startrek the animated series due to licencing and property conflicts (ie: the Kizinti for example)

What counts as Non Canon:

Everything else, including the original series Star Trek Technical manual, and products derived from it such as the Star Fleet Battles table game, The starfleet command computer game series other then SFC-III which qualifies as soft canon, and any trek products produced by ADB.

A SPECIAL NOTE: If STO limited its self to existing canon... there wouldn't be very much here.. and most fed ships would be kit bashes of what was seen in next gen at the wolf system, and in DS-9 during the dominion war arc. All told maybe 2 or 3 dozen dozen ships for the Feds, 7, possibly 8 ships for the KDF and a whopping 4 or 5 ships for the romulans... If we insist that everything be absolutly canon.. then we might as well all delete STO off of our computers right now.

STO how ever has this lovely impintur of official approval granted by CBS. Which I specificly note is a first for a Trek based computer game. Once its approved by CBS to be put in STO.. It's now canon. If they should at some point produce a trek series set after the games time period then all of the ships in STO and any characters could be put in the production. While I don't know the specific I'm pretty sure that CBS could do that without having to pay cryptic a penny, or even asking permission, even though cryptic employees created the ships and all additional characters that are not sourced from the TV Series or movies.

Cryptic has been extended the privilege of expanding canon, just in case some of you conveniently forgot this.

The bulk of information on Klingons has been developed from licensed books and products that may not have ever been vetted by either CBS or Paramount. (sure write what you want, we get 10% off the top) And please to remember that TOS contridicted its self regularly. We did not get story contiguity untill next generation, and the movies from ST-II-WOK onward.

As for that particular Klingon. If he should step onto my deck, he will keep his suggestion to himself or he'll be flash frozen and floating home with out the benefit of a star ship around him.

As for the character.. he's working with Tom Paris as part of Delta Flight... and I'm not sure I want to know what it was HE did to get there. I suspect hastily seconded from the KDF to Paris's command. But I do get a mental picture of the Bortasqu with a portion of its command boom blown off due to a misfire in the tube of just one example of what can go wrong when you pack 5 torpedo warhead charges in one casing. Anyway, he's Tom Paris's problem... not mine! And I'm pretty sure sanity even by Klingon standards gave him a pass long ago...

doktormarengo

Klingons are the Federations most deadly frenemy

One thing I wish the game lore would incorporate is how good Klingons are at espionage.

I.E. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Klingon_Intelligence

The only reference to Klingon Intelligence in the game is a tongue-in-cheek Doff mission. Which is sort of insulting if you like the KDF

The KDF runs a master spy network, with undercover operatives everywhere. When I think of Klingons, I think of cold war Russia or modern day South Korea. I don't think of idiotic orcs with ridges.

It's obvious the devs don't think that way. To them Klingons are bumbling doofuses who offer a monster-play experience. So now that the Fed/KDF war is ending, the faction is being reduced to comedy relief and catchphrases. :rolleyes:

It's been that way for five years.. so I'm not on a holdout for any changes soon. Someday someone will come up with a faction game, where the "red side" isn't always a bunch of monsters and idiotic brutes.

majesticmsfc

patrickngo wrote: »

it's not a real surprise though-that Pakled-with-ridges is how the Lead Develoepr and most of the staff see KDF Players, and it's more of a statement than anything else on how Geko and the rest of his team see the Klingons as a people, race and faction.

We're just dumb space-orks who need Al's Gary-Stu heroes to function because we're too ****ing stupid to come in from the rain.

Well said and from what I have read/listen too from him it's not far from the truth either. The guy needs to be removed for the good of the game and someone who looks at it as a business rather than his own personal play thing needs to be added. He is as bad as Dan Stahl was imo. :rolleyes:

trennan

mimey2 wrote: »

OR...you could interpret this Klingon as instead being extremely good in his field. Quantum torpedoes are far more complex than even our most advanced weapons we currently have. Even a single torpedo is probably an insane piece of technology to make it work. So to have the skill and know-how to not only fit, but make all five warheads actually work together is very impressive. A bit of messing around is needed, but he CAN do it.

Besides, Tom Paris IS flying a 'hero ship' (and is Tom Paris), so it's alright if he can have 'Torpedo: High Yield IV'.

Genius and madness are often confused for each other. Just ask Einstein and we all know what he developed.

branmakmorrn

Speaking of Klingon NPC's, have you heard the one about Klingon Temporal Intelligence officers?

If you've met Q'on, you've met 'em all.

orangeitis

branmakmorrn wrote: »

Speaking of Klingon NPC's, have you heard the one about Klingon Temporal Intelligence officers?

If you've met Q'on, you've met 'em all.

He seemed like a bro. I wouldn't mind them all being like him.

angrytarg

oldkhemaraa wrote: »

*looks at the thread and gives a very deep world weary sigh*

(...)

Canon: Everything on-screen. TOS, TAS (was recopnciled by CBS in 2011 I think, they had a website announcement on Startrek.com), TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and all movies including JJ. /JJ is a alternate reality, as the movie itself states. For that reality though it is canon, just as the Hobus thing).

Everything else: Not canon. There is no such a thing as "soft canon", that's just a fancy term made up by fans to make it sound more important

The Technical manuals are by the very definiton non canon, as they cannot appear on-screen. However, they are derived from the writer's guides written by Okuda et al. which means unless they are contradicted by on-screen occurences they are as official as it gets. It's not just some random fan project.

Everything else doesn't count at all - but we can all still debate and headcanon