The thing is, the game has a terrible problem with lag and it seems to be getting worse almost every day recently.
And it's not just a problem of the instances where you encounter people using starship traits.
It's happening on stations, the academy, the spacedock...
Clearly this is a problem the game has, I think pleading for people to stop using their traits makes less sense than constantly nagging Perfect World and/or Cryptic to fix their problems.
And that doesn't make much sense already, considering how little effect it seems to have.
No one is dismissing anything. There is a problem with lag. However it is not universal ... ... ...
... ... ... blaming traits/boffs/m at that point. But you won't find that out without testing. And if the traits are the problem, then you have a much stronger case with 20 runs where 10 with traits were lagfests, while 10 without were not.
I take your ideas but really man, server load probably has something to do with the variable experience, but I think you are expending too much effort to refute the experiences of many people
I don't understand how the the trait anchored would cause trouble when pattern recognition and intense focus don't seem to ..... but, it's possible, anchored is going to flip on and off nonstop
but, given all the other active traits and abilities now, perhaps pattern recognition and intense focus are slightly compounding things in this new world, where before, they were not
and the idea that proximity and/or in-team checks could cause problems, well, that's a very simple idea to understand if you work with computers or write/debug software for a living
I'm sure they don't have everything right, but that's never going to happen, all we can do is guesstimate
I take your ideas but really man, server load probably has something to do with the variable experience, but I think you are expending too much effort to refute the experiences of many people
I don't understand how the the trait anchored would cause trouble when pattern recognition and intense focus don't seem to ..... but, it's possible, anchored is going to flip on and off nonstop
but, given all the other active traits and abilities now, perhaps pattern recognition and intense focus are slightly compounding things in this new world, where before, they were not
and the idea that proximity and/or in-team checks could cause problems, well, that's a very simple idea to understand if you work with computers or write/debug software for a living
I'm sure they don't have everything right, but that's never going to happen, all we can do is guesstimate
Sure, lets have more guessing rather than actual tests to try and correlate and corroborate.
I'm sure space traits explains all the ground lag too, because that makes perfect sense.
I don't care if it was from 30 seconds ago. That's not the point. Sincerely asking the community to stop using any tool within the game, based on what amounts to zero evidence by any scientific standard, is absurd.
You want me to stop using my traits? Prove they're the cause. And by proof, I don't mean whatever standard feels suitable. A statistically significant sample size is required. Then, account for other potential problems. People's technical specs, hardware and software. In my experience, what most people understand about computers doesn't amount to a pile of beans. For all I know, the lag problems being caused in the single example being given in this thread are a result of a dropbox transfer. Or an origin update. Maybe windows decided it needed to download something. Maybe his cat was chewing on his ethernet cable. From the perspective of the OP, these suggestions may sound ludicrous; but from the perspective of anyone not the OP, asking it all to be taken on faith and therefore change the way we do things, is ridiculous. Even if we were to take all these things on faith, we're still talking about a single datapoint. Others have already chimed in and said their experience has differed from the example given.
When you can round up about a thousand people, run a well-conceived series of tests, account for other potential factors that might introduce lag, then, maybe, an argument can be made for asking the community to alter their play. Until then, all that we have is a hypothesis in need of actual research.
The problem isn't with the idea, it's with the declarations and demands based on it.
I have close to 50 of similar videos, not put on Youtube, because I didn't want to flood my youtube channel with lag runs. In total I have done myself personally around 25 runs of ISA with traits on and off.
I know anyone else who notices these could be recording as well and show similar issues. My best runs of 80k and 90k on my channel comes from running with people on the 30k DPS channels. But I have not had a single run as good as those since my 90k run. And I published those videos the same day I did them.
My lag has only gotten worse gradually as the days progressed. I have a good sample size of my OWN personal runs. Some runs using the same people and others with different people, all of which had the traits that the OP highlighted.
I know Jay who has commented in here has seen similar issues himself. RyanSTO, Felisean, Porchsong, Holofrog have each seen issues themselves just to name a few people who have had issues. If you want stats of who among the DPS channels are having this exact same issue and sees improvements removing stats, well I can't speak for them. I only know from my experience.
If you are upset over my "lack" of evidence, well I'm sorry it doesn't meet your expectations. I'm not trying to please you. I only published those for base level examples of what is going one. Along with things I have found that added to the lag. I never once said they completely REMOVED it and the rubberbanding, just that it was reduced. That means that there IS something beyond, but the game became bearable.
As for anything else, the analysis of the cause pointed out, I wholeheartedly agree. But let's point out one thing. I didn't post my videos in here, someone else took that liberty to do that.
Need help with a mission to beat it? Visit http://pilotreviewshow.com to learn how we can help!
Whatever for? This entire forum is a lunatic asylum. What's going on in this thread is simply an inverse of prior lunacy.
'Delta Rising is the best expansion ever. The players love it.'
It's ok to mock and ridicule this statement in practically every thread that comes up about almost any issue. Even if not directly invoked, it's in signatures all over the forums. Why? It's a statement made with no supporting evidence, something we are just supposed to take on faith. And so, most of us don't.
'Starship traits are terrible. Stop using them.'
Since this is coming from a player, I'm not supposed to question its validity? Questioning it actually makes me a lunatic?
If you are upset over my "lack" of evidence, well I'm sorry it doesn't meet your expectations. I'm not trying to please you. I only published those for base level examples of what is going one. Along with things I have found that added to the lag. I never once said they completely REMOVED it and the rubberbanding, just that it was reduced. That means that there IS something beyond, but the game became bearable.
I'm not upset over a lack of evidence, and I'm owed no passive-aggressive apologies. As olliereport rightly states, the expectation that scientifically viable data be provided by a single player is unreasonable. I'm upset over the perversion of language. I actually think this might be something worth looking at. I will say it again: The problem isn't with the idea, it's with the declarations and demands based on it.
Well I've noticed some serious increases in lag and rubberbanding in ISA and in Fleet Alert in the last week or so. Actually to the extent that NPC's were dead from my damage before my screen even registered me firing a shot and numerous abilities were misfiring or just outright not working.
No idea what the cause could be, starship traits? No idea really, but they've been around for several months and there's been a massive increase in lag in only the last month or so. Therefore I'd say it's more than just the traits, unless it's very specific ones that are the issue.
I don't get anything like the same lag in ESD or Vulcan or DS9, or anywhere else with up to 50 players plus all the NPC's milling about. It seems to be only the space maps (and even then only certain ones) and also the Dyson battlezone that are really suffering.
Well, I'm using the Pilot Tree and several of the traits mentioned above... Not getting any lag here since the first days of the anniversary event, despite running regular STF's and Borg/Tholian alerts...
Again, the very fact that many people are using ship traits and the like without lag lends just as much evidence against your assertion...
As far as the video is concerned, it's anecdotal at best - I personally wouldn't even put that much faith in traits being the cause... There is no way to prove what was turned on, and what was turned off, and there is no indication of hardware involved, or anything else that was happening at the time...
Am I denying some people are getting lag issues? No... I'd be a fool to suggest that no one playing ANY MMO is lag free...
Is everyone experiencing lag, even when using ship traits? Absolutely no... So there is nothing conclusive and this is an inadequately substantiated theory...
You make such an eloquent argument which is clearly supported with facts and multitudes of evidence, so I will absolutely go and immediately remove all traits listed at your suggestion.
Remember the shield heals that crashed the server? So it could happen again I suppose. Not out of the question.
Remember the shield heals that crashed the server? So it could happen again I suppose. Not out of the question.
Traits could be a contributing factor...but if it were the traits alone, it would be the traits everywhere sort of thing.
Pretty much comes off as a sort of buffet thing, yeah?
Adam just has water, so he's fine.
Beth has a little load, but she's fine.
Chuck has a little network stuff, and he's fine.
Debbie's got a little leak, but she's fine.
Eric's got some load and network stuff, he's feeling a little.
Faith's got some load, network stuff, and a leak...she's sharpening her axe.
Please stop using them, they're dysfunctional and causing everyone in the instance to lag.
Here's some that are causing lag:
AHOD
Anchored
Pedal to the medal
Supremacy
Pilot tree.
I realize some of these were bought with money and what not but they're not working and they are ruining everyone's fun.
This isn't an order or trying to make everyone suit my desires, it's a plea. The starship traits are really that bad.
Uhhhh yeah, i actually use those traits, depending on if i am using cannons or beams, and uhhhhhhh yeah ive never experianced lag, nor has my team members.
I don't hit up any other queues, but no missions have problems - CCA as I said has no problems - it's just ISA where it's been meh since right before the Crystalline event as if they were shifting resources for Crystalline and never shifted them back. Cause that's when the ISA mess started for me.
Pretty much the same here. In ISA I keep on lagging. A bit in KASA as well but other PvE maps like VCE or the said CCA seem to work flawless even if I have stuff like AHOD or Anchored slotted.
Very mysterious but hardly tolerable because ISA seems to be the mainstream map for a majority of players to spend their time in.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Comments
And it's not just a problem of the instances where you encounter people using starship traits.
It's happening on stations, the academy, the spacedock...
Clearly this is a problem the game has, I think pleading for people to stop using their traits makes less sense than constantly nagging Perfect World and/or Cryptic to fix their problems.
And that doesn't make much sense already, considering how little effect it seems to have.
I take your ideas but really man, server load probably has something to do with the variable experience, but I think you are expending too much effort to refute the experiences of many people
I don't understand how the the trait anchored would cause trouble when pattern recognition and intense focus don't seem to ..... but, it's possible, anchored is going to flip on and off nonstop
but, given all the other active traits and abilities now, perhaps pattern recognition and intense focus are slightly compounding things in this new world, where before, they were not
and the idea that proximity and/or in-team checks could cause problems, well, that's a very simple idea to understand if you work with computers or write/debug software for a living
I'm sure they don't have everything right, but that's never going to happen, all we can do is guesstimate
Sure, lets have more guessing rather than actual tests to try and correlate and corroborate.
I'm sure space traits explains all the ground lag too, because that makes perfect sense.
I have close to 50 of similar videos, not put on Youtube, because I didn't want to flood my youtube channel with lag runs. In total I have done myself personally around 25 runs of ISA with traits on and off.
I know anyone else who notices these could be recording as well and show similar issues. My best runs of 80k and 90k on my channel comes from running with people on the 30k DPS channels. But I have not had a single run as good as those since my 90k run. And I published those videos the same day I did them.
My lag has only gotten worse gradually as the days progressed. I have a good sample size of my OWN personal runs. Some runs using the same people and others with different people, all of which had the traits that the OP highlighted.
I know Jay who has commented in here has seen similar issues himself. RyanSTO, Felisean, Porchsong, Holofrog have each seen issues themselves just to name a few people who have had issues. If you want stats of who among the DPS channels are having this exact same issue and sees improvements removing stats, well I can't speak for them. I only know from my experience.
If you are upset over my "lack" of evidence, well I'm sorry it doesn't meet your expectations. I'm not trying to please you. I only published those for base level examples of what is going one. Along with things I have found that added to the lag. I never once said they completely REMOVED it and the rubberbanding, just that it was reduced. That means that there IS something beyond, but the game became bearable.
As for anything else, the analysis of the cause pointed out, I wholeheartedly agree. But let's point out one thing. I didn't post my videos in here, someone else took that liberty to do that.
Top DPS 102k
Madness?... THIS IS STARRR TREKKKK!
Ability: Lunge3
Whatever for? This entire forum is a lunatic asylum. What's going on in this thread is simply an inverse of prior lunacy.
'Delta Rising is the best expansion ever. The players love it.'
It's ok to mock and ridicule this statement in practically every thread that comes up about almost any issue. Even if not directly invoked, it's in signatures all over the forums. Why? It's a statement made with no supporting evidence, something we are just supposed to take on faith. And so, most of us don't.
'Starship traits are terrible. Stop using them.'
Since this is coming from a player, I'm not supposed to question its validity? Questioning it actually makes me a lunatic?
A wonderful strawman followed up with an ad hominem attack. No one is questioning the theory of gravity here except you.
I'm not upset over a lack of evidence, and I'm owed no passive-aggressive apologies. As olliereport rightly states, the expectation that scientifically viable data be provided by a single player is unreasonable. I'm upset over the perversion of language. I actually think this might be something worth looking at. I will say it again: The problem isn't with the idea, it's with the declarations and demands based on it.
No idea what the cause could be, starship traits? No idea really, but they've been around for several months and there's been a massive increase in lag in only the last month or so. Therefore I'd say it's more than just the traits, unless it's very specific ones that are the issue.
I don't get anything like the same lag in ESD or Vulcan or DS9, or anywhere else with up to 50 players plus all the NPC's milling about. It seems to be only the space maps (and even then only certain ones) and also the Dyson battlezone that are really suffering.
Again, the very fact that many people are using ship traits and the like without lag lends just as much evidence against your assertion...
As far as the video is concerned, it's anecdotal at best - I personally wouldn't even put that much faith in traits being the cause... There is no way to prove what was turned on, and what was turned off, and there is no indication of hardware involved, or anything else that was happening at the time...
Am I denying some people are getting lag issues? No... I'd be a fool to suggest that no one playing ANY MMO is lag free...
Is everyone experiencing lag, even when using ship traits? Absolutely no... So there is nothing conclusive and this is an inadequately substantiated theory...
Remember the shield heals that crashed the server? So it could happen again I suppose. Not out of the question.
Not at all. But the solution to that wasn't 'Shield heals are terrible. Stop using them.'
Have you done all these tests on multiple computers and ISP's? or is all this based on conjecture?
I have not once come across lag caused by the issues you have raised.
I find your lack of proper research... disturbing.
LOOOL ... DAT made my day ! :P
Traits could be a contributing factor...but if it were the traits alone, it would be the traits everywhere sort of thing.
Pretty much comes off as a sort of buffet thing, yeah?
Adam just has water, so he's fine.
Beth has a little load, but she's fine.
Chuck has a little network stuff, and he's fine.
Debbie's got a little leak, but she's fine.
Eric's got some load and network stuff, he's feeling a little.
Faith's got some load, network stuff, and a leak...she's sharpening her axe.
Uhhhh yeah, i actually use those traits, depending on if i am using cannons or beams, and uhhhhhhh yeah ive never experianced lag, nor has my team members.
Pretty much the same here. In ISA I keep on lagging. A bit in KASA as well but other PvE maps like VCE or the said CCA seem to work flawless even if I have stuff like AHOD or Anchored slotted.
Very mysterious but hardly tolerable because ISA seems to be the mainstream map for a majority of players to spend their time in.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.