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The Guardians speaks of Iconians
abqapache
Member Posts: 18 Arc User
I replayed an old mission that I enjoyed "The city on the edge of never" and now (due to the Delta Recruitment) the guardian speaks about the Iconians.
I really enjoyed this, though it was vague and a little difficult to comprehend, the Guardian mentioned the Iconians were children that were spiteful?
Interesting....
I really enjoyed this, though it was vague and a little difficult to comprehend, the Guardian mentioned the Iconians were children that were spiteful?
Interesting....
Post edited by abqapache on
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And the Prophet in "Crack in the Mirror" said something like, "they angered their siblings."
So two godlike beings have weighed in, and they both make the Iconians sound like spoiled, whiny three-year-olds.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
With the age of their race they would have been in the fight with the Iconians:cool:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
A new lockbox because none of their ships are t6
Interesting theory but the prophets talk as if the iconians are not prophets
They are linear, adversarial, aggressive.
The voth are pretty much passive as long as no one tries to conquer them, and given the huge distance between the centers of both empires, I would guess they just didnt encounter them (in war) till now.
Ehaun, the Vorta on the U.S.S. Rapier, mentions that the reason the Dominion are on the Rapier is that they seek knowledge and power. That they have much to learn about the Federation even after all this time. And that they need all the tech they can get for whats to come.
Of course he could be referring to the Iconians but I find it weird the Dominion feels they can find an advantage over the Iconians on an older model Federation Escort. Rather then hunting down Iconian Tech in their own Quadrant.
To me its logical that a Second Dominion War would be the next thing we would face after this Iconian War comes and goes. The Dominion only lost because they were unable to hold and utilize the Wormhole and were cut off from the bulk of their military force. Had the Dominion held territory closer to Fed/Klink/Rom space it would of been a different story. A Second Dominion War would open up the Gamma Quadrant and give us a reason to be there.
From everything we know about context, the game history, and various other factors, it can be deduced that:
The are simply one of who knows how many other incredibly old sentients that have existed for countless millennia. Because they were some of the first species to evolve to such a high degree, the Iconians and their contemporaries were nicknamed "The Children" by the Guardian of Forever and its creators. This kind of implies that, despite the advanced technologies of these races, they were still young compared to whomever created the Guardian.
Remember, the Iconians are not the only old, advanced species we've encountered. We've also got the Voth and the Preservers, even the Changelings and the Borg. These races, while old now, were once some of the only advanced races in the stars.
Makes you really think about the kind of species that would be so advanced and so old that they'd consider these advanced aliens "Children". After all, we still don't know who built the Guardian of Forever.
The preservers are the oldest civilization of our galaxy, but the guardian doesnt have to have been built by a race of our galaxy. The traveler had the ability to enhance warp capable ships significantly, so a race could have used something like this to charter more than their own galaxy (alike to the ancients maybe). The changelings are interesting, but not really that advanced (in technology) over the federation. The voth havent had technology upgrades for eons. The borg are out of the equation, they starting exploring the stars at the same time the vulcans did, or the vulcans even beat them to it (the vaadwaur stated, that 900 years ago they only had occupied a small part of the delta quadrant).
Maybe the guarian itself isnt as much a machine as it is a lifeform on its own.
A very interesting question is why the preservers vanished from our galaxy. Did they "ascend", e.g. evolve in non-corporal beings, or did something preish them (internal war, disease (ancients^^), reapers^^)?
I tremble with glee at the thought.
What happened to the Preservers is kinda covered by the Breen arc already. The Preservers became living computers, and maintained an actual population in a state of suspended animation for a time when thier "Children" would want to know where they came from.
:eek:
Or, whether the Hur'q invaded Quonos on orders from the Iconians as part of it's first probing attempts to retake the universe.
The iconians are too young for that. Bajoran civilization is over twice as old as the iconians. The prophets have been around most of that time. The iconians are only 200,000 years old-ish. We don't know how long their empire lasted or when it started, only when it ended.
A good guess would be post t'kon since the t'kon were the first race to go around teleporting planets.
I think this is incorrect. The Iconians home world was destroyed 200,000 years ago. There is no information in lore I am aware of stating their existence was confined to 200,000 years.
There does not appear to be a timeline telling us about the Preservers. We know they supposedly seeded there genetics to the various races as a legacy. We know they are the oldest known race in lore. They are supposed to have given us their vast knowledge in the Breen arc. Nothing has been provided to us.
We do not know if the Iconians, Tkon, Kelvens, Others, Q, and the rest were contemporaries or if they were, their relations with each other. We know the servitor races are younger than the Iconians and that they in many cases seem to be created (Elachi, Herald constructs).
My post in another thread quotes my predictions that the Iconians will be few in number and that somehow the Dominion are going to enter the fight but maybe not until season 11
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
The prophets are timeless, they exist at any time, so it doesn't matter "when" the iconians became the prophets, it matter "if" they did.
This might help.
5,000,000,000 = creation of guardian of forever
4,500,000,000 = last question asked of guardian until kirk
4,000,000,000 = Preservers seed the galaxy
^^........................ Sol becomes a star
0,065,000,000 = voth leave earth
0,020,000,000 = voth arrive in delta quadrant
^^.................... = organians evolve past physical bodies
0,001,000,000 = city surrounding guardian is built (Spock's estimate)
0,000,600,000 = t'kon invent planet teleporting, but empire destroyed
^^.................... . = Sargon's race colonizes galaxy, become vulcans
0,000,500,000 = bajoran civilization is already established, prophets unknown
0,000,200,000 = fall of iconians
0,000,100,000 = hirogen subspace network built
0,000,050,000 = cheron civil war
0,000,042,000 = sky spirits take native Americans to delta q
0,000,030,000 = bajorans build b'hala city, find the orbs
0,000,022,000 = first joining of trill and symbiote
0,000,010,000 = gomtuu becomes last of her kind (living ships)
^^..................... = founders create the dominion
^^..................... = ferengi rules of acquisition
^^..................... = first appearance of the pah-wraiths
0,000,006,000 = flint born as akharin in mesotamia
0,000,005,000 = Greek gods on earth
0,000,004,500 = vulcans embrace logic
0,000,004,000 = xindi avians build council city
0,000,002,000 = Vulcan / romulan split
^^.…................. = jem haddar created
^^.................... = visigoths sack Rome
0,000,001,500 = kahless defeats fek'lhri
^^.................... = nacene (caretaker) arrives in delta q
0,000,001,400 = Klingons become warp capable
0,000,001,300 = spheres built forming delphic expanse
0,000,001,000 = hurq invasion of qoonos
0,000,000,900 = turei bomb vaadwaur into "extinction"
0,000,000,800 = bajoran solar sail ship finds cardassia
0,000,000,500 = cardassian union formed
^^..................... = kelvan ships leave Andromeda galaxy
0,000,000,400 = eugenics wars on earth
Anything younger than 2,000 my math might be off by 1 or 2 hundred years. I'm bad at converting xth century into years ago.
I just read the Wikipedia Star Trek timeline. It has so many huge holes and inconsistencies we could drive a couple universes throughout it side by side and not snuff a star. But yes, your statement matches the derived timeline. Whether they and the Iconians were contemporaries we really don't know, though the Guardians statement might indicate a rift between the two and their respective methodologies are diametrically opposite.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Wikipedia is a horrible resource for trek. Use memory alpha.
The confusion with the "preservers" is that two races were linked unofficialy by an author--ronald moore--who thought it would be a cool idea. Sto has officially accepted the link, but the two episodes in question leave it vague.
The iconians are over 4 billion years younger than the preservers. That is 5 orders of magnitude younger. If the preservers are a 100 year old man, the iconians are a newborn baby less than 2 days old. The federation in this analogy hasn't had its placenta cut yet. And this is not an exagerration of the differences, this is mathematically correct.
Preservers:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Preservers
Ancient humanoids:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Ancient_humanoid
Math = 200k = 4.44444x10tothe-5 as % of 4.5bn
100 years = ~876,960 hours
That % = 38.9 hours (iconians)
Federation = minutes
The Kelvans seem to be a rather recent race. Sure, they have or had a lot of territory and seem to have been around for a while, but.... there wasn't any real indication they were a super old race, just old.
My character Tsin'xing
Some of the later mission items seem to have just been there for the sake of being there.
I thought that too, but consider that the Guardians believed that ALL races were children. As with any child who comes into power too quickly, they fail to respect and honor that power, rather opting to abuse it.
But have they? Consider this: for the most part the Iconians have stayed in their own galaxy and left the Milky Way alone. Sure, theyve had some friction but theyve always warned us to stay away. Thanks to Sela, the Tal Shiar and the Elachi, the Milky Way has been thrust into an intergalactic war with them.
From the Iconians perspective WE are the unruly children who took the apple of knowledge and committed the first sin. Therefore, we are the ones who are about to be evicted from the Garden.
Not accurate really.
First known act of hostility from the iconians is older than the federation when elachi attacked Jonathan Archer's enterprise in silent enemy (stated in the Dev blog as such an act of hostility). The information from the mission with worf shows they've been preparing for invasion for centuries via the data on the different consoles.
They are aggressors. Like most humans, they do not accept responsibility for their own actions and (to use them psychology term) displace the cause onto others as a way of avoiding it. Thus they blame us to justify their own decision, which was already made and merely awaiting an excuse.
This is from the blog:
All "blame" for the war rests on the iconians themselves.
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410