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Need & Greed in PVE
elvishprestley
Member Posts: 6 Arc User
Greetings fellow players,
First, sorry if this was ever discussed here. I contacted support with feedback, they said to come post my comment here,
I've been playing STO for a few months now, I'm really into it. One thing that bugs me though is that in PVE, practically all players choose NEED when an item is up for grabs, forcing those would would like to click GREED to instead click NEED so that everyone's chances are equal.
I was thinking that a new rule could be implemented. Maybe a player can only click NEED once per PVE mission but I'm curious as to you all think about this.
Thanks, have a good day :-)
First, sorry if this was ever discussed here. I contacted support with feedback, they said to come post my comment here,
I've been playing STO for a few months now, I'm really into it. One thing that bugs me though is that in PVE, practically all players choose NEED when an item is up for grabs, forcing those would would like to click GREED to instead click NEED so that everyone's chances are equal.
I was thinking that a new rule could be implemented. Maybe a player can only click NEED once per PVE mission but I'm curious as to you all think about this.
Thanks, have a good day :-)
Post edited by elvishprestley on
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Comments
OK...here is a scenario for you
Five players enter an instance, first piece of loot drops, all 5 click need and one person wins the roll and that person gets the loot. Second piece of loot drops, nobody can click need so instead they have to click greed...ALL OF THEM have to click on greed else pass. Only one person can win the roll and when that person wins it they get the loot. Third piece of loot drops, nobody can click need so instead they have to click greed...ALL OF THEM have to click on greed. Only one person can win the roll and when that person wins it they get the loot. Shall i keep going to let you know how the rolls will go for the 4th, 5th, 6th (etc) pieces of loot will go for the remainder of that instance or mission?
Theres a bunch more but i'm not about to go through all possible scenarios that could happen when this player passes on this piece of loot but rolls on that next one while the other player passes and yadda yadda.
In many games good gear can be found in random drops and the issue of need vs. greed is important (and they typically have more ways for a team leader to handle that issue). But here... it very unlikely to see a good drop and in truth I doubt anyone takes the time to even look at what they are clicking on.
Depending upon random drops is thus a poor way to equip a ship. It's basically all vendor trash and you use the EC to buy what you want off the exchange.
The Rep system, Mission Awards, Exchange, Fleet Holdings, and Events are all better sources of gear.
What I'd like to see is a auto option where I can set it to always do Need, Greed or Pass for me. I hate the popups in the middle of a combat.
I've already got enough inventory clutter as it is; anything I "need", I obtain elsewhere.
Which is why everyone clicks need. Everyone 'needs' the EC from selling it. The only drops that people actually want are upgrade tokens, and everyone needs those as well.
Everybody.. if your going to roll just everyone roll need and get it over with.
should just be 2 choices.. roll or pass. Gentle-being agreements only work if everyone is a gentle being, and agrees to the rule. Skip the whole possibly aggrivating mess and just always either roll need, or pass
As to the Loot Drops, back then they were the only way to acquire EDCs. Since I can now get BNPs for merely participating in an STF of the right level, I have even less incentive to click on Need/Greed/Pass. While I'd like an Auto Pass button which I could set prior to entering, I can just ignore the drop and eventually the timer runs out anyways without me doing anything at all.
The gear from the drops is tailored to the level of the players and is usually both Green and something so random as to be useless. More reasons to leave it be. And yes, I have enough alternate ways to get EC I don't need to rely upon Loot Drops for an income source. Crafting lower level items which are blue can turn a nice little profit as long as one watches the overhead and establishes a good price point which is fair to both the maker and the purchaser.
OP, if I can find alternate ways of making EC, so can others. I am not a whale nor am I some kind of gaming genius. I just pay attention to the details. Doing so will free you from relying upon the RNG kindness of strangers, lol.
A game only needs a loot distribution system if the value of drops is dependent on player characteristics. In STO this is not the case. Loot is mostly vendor trash, and all tradeable, so it represents EC. EC gained by selling the item or EC saved by not buying it. Everyone wants as much EC as they can get, therefore it's pointless to ask.
The game should just automatically roll as if everyone picked Need without asking.
This would be the best approach in STO... Need/Greed is a pointless distraction in the middle of an STF in most cases and I learnt a long time ago, unless you're in a premade group, just roll need on everything, as 99% of PUGs will do the same anyway...
WoW shifted to a system where items were randomly distributed and, IMO, it resolved alot of issues - especially eliminating the all too common disputes over who needs what item more than the next player etc...
The other problem is that good loot basically does not drop anymore and it is all vendor trash. If you choose greed you get nothing since everyone else just needs everything and really this game should just auto roll on everything and be done with it and auto loot also.
This game is probably never going to drop useful loot again. It would be better if they just got rid of the loot and just gave you EC for kills instead and had it auto split with the team.
Pretty much. And I think some of the games have already moved on, and distributing only the appropriate gear to the characters. (I think TOR has something like that.)
In addition, most of the gear that drops in STO is jsut vendor trash anyway. People pick Need so they can get some EC, which they definitely won't if they pick Greed. Or they pick Pass so they don't get a cluttered inventory.
Round-Robin would even make more sense than Want/Pass in STO - then you didn'T even get bothered with the Need/Greed UI.
I would love to see CoH's silent and automatic round robin-esque make a comeback.
BUT.... you can't use it in STFs or any other PvE queue content. Anything with auto-teaming is locked to need/greed.
My character Tsin'xing
Most definitely.
When you got an item, not only did no one else see it (and you did not have to do anything about it to "pick it up") to cause drama, you weren't "taking it" from anyone since everyone got their own roll. Those two were likely major reasons why loot drama in CoH never really existed. (For comparison see any raid drop in Censoredcraft with its loot distribution schemes and accounting systems.) It fostered a completely different social environment than even the most polite Need Greed Pass players could have achieved. I would love to see that in more games but, sadly, drama sells.
CoH's was automatic and for everything. From normal missions to Task Forces. It was also silent, no popups informing the other players what, if anything, a player received on their roll for the mob.
That made me think of Diablo 2...
Where the faster "clicker" would get the best loot
Then the bots came...and took EVERYTHING
Was near impossible grabbing a SoJ...unless you ran private....
Then it was awesome, depending on how trustworthy your team was.
I loved the trade channels too... They were so lively, but maybe that's because set items would drop in game.
As stated the drops arent that special here.
Good for levelling toons, but that's about it.
Once you have a fleet and rep.. you don't really need any loot drop, except for vendoring to make ec.
It is a bit strange, that in STO, you do get your own drops from time to time, like in Borg STFs getting the Large Batteries, or provisions or lockboxes.
Either give everyone their own loot, as seen in D3, or make it a need/pass system. And having a setting for auto need/auto pass...I can't stand the interruptions.
Tip: use the "f" key to quickly loot.
It's not weird at all. Common (white) items aren't subject to Need and Greed by default.
Well, I certainly find it a little odd, and more then a little distracting, that lockboxes, and item buoys are floating around that others cannot see or pickup.
I'd ask for an auto filter, so you can set what levels and rarity items you'd loot.
But a simple auto need or pass would suffice.
Or what they could do is design another 2 or 3 standalone space and ground sets (no rep needed for these) They don't have to be amazing end game quality, but on par with Aegis and Jem sets,
And let these set pieces have a small chance to drop for successfully completing adv and elite queues. Like 0.05% for Adv, and 1.5% for elite.
This would create a bit of excitment for playing queues and motivate people to upgrade, so they can play in harder queues.
Yeah, the Need/Greed system needs to go. It should all be made Round-Robin. Then, if you don't want anything, you just leave it, and don't pick up the loot.
With the nerf to the value of a lot of items, more players, including myself, click Need now more than ever, so that we can make up for the nerf they did.
I have to sell about three times the stuff I used to just to get the same amount of EC. So on things I have Passed, or Greed on before, I now pick Need on because of it.
But the Need/Greed system is not needed in STO, since almost everything that is picked up by players that are level 45+ is usually just sold anyway. And with the crafting system, and items crafted being account bound, it makes keeping stuff that is picked up even at lower levels useless. The only good things are things needed to craft, or upgrade stuff, the batteries, and components. All else is not worth more than selling for the little EC we get for it now.
they could simply add 50k EC to every mission reward, and remove loot all together. Better for immersion, better for performance, ...
as others have mentioned already, you get loot primarely from faction rewards, mission rewards, and crafting.
All STFs should reward loot via a tiered reward system (similar to crystaline catastrophy)
random loot and the need/greed window popping up is more of a immersion breaker and nuisance than anything else.
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