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Changes to Surgical Strikes

rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
edited March 2015 in PvP Gameplay
From Redshirt patch notes:

Powers:
  • Surgical Strikes:
    • Resolved an issue that was causing some Disruptor Cannons to benefit less from this power than intended.
    • Plasma, Phaser, and Disruptor Quad Cannons now use correct FX and Icons when using this ability.
    • Accuracy and Critical Hit bonuses reduced:
      • Rank 1 = unchanged 20%
      • Rank 2 = reduced from +30% to +26%
      • Rank 3 = reduced from +40% to +32%
    • Damage multipliers reduced:
      • Rank 1 = base multiplier reduced by ~10%
      • Rank 2 = base multiplier reduced by ~16.8%
      • Rank 3 = base multiplier reduced by ~21.5%

    Surgical Strikes changed for tomorrow's patch. What do you all think?
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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    Comments

    • baelogventurebaelogventure Member Posts: 1,002 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      Oh look, nonstop crying from PvP has gotten something else nerfed.

      Someone should make a dedication plaque for all of the powers and items that PvPers got nerfed.
    • rmy1081rmy1081 Member Posts: 2,840 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      Oh look, nonstop crying from PvP has gotten something else nerfed.

      Someone should make a dedication plaque for all of the powers and items that PvPers got nerfed.

      yeah, and we should make one for Tachyon beam for everyone crying over it in STFs and another one for Tric mines because people were popping cubes too easily. Be constructive or please go away.
    • rossclansforce1rossclansforce1 Member Posts: 400 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      Oh look, nonstop crying from PvP has gotten something else nerfed.

      Someone should make a dedication plaque for all of the powers and items that PvPers got nerfed.


      Good point, but PVE will soon be hit by those abilities by NPCs. Then PVPers are going to say "Why were we ignored?" "We warned you!"
      [img]>:)[/img]

      Click to Join armadafleet.org/
    • grandpadxxgrandpadxx Member Posts: 342
      edited March 2015
      Im just to stupit to play PvP, so i must play this lame PVE Stuff. But now they fix S.S. and i cant ( like in the Past ) kill these Borg Cube's. :(

      Dont be mad about it.. next OP Stuff coming soon. :rolleyes:


      Regarts
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      T'lilu SCI. / Dxxdavid TAK. / STO Inner Circle
      *** R.I.P. ***
    • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      Oh look, nonstop crying from PvP has gotten something else nerfed.

      Someone should make a dedication plaque for all of the powers and items that PvPers got nerfed.
      3lsZz0w.jpg
    • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      This thread might need a bit of the following case it was missed or if one wants to head over to that thread to challenge the changes...there's an opportunity to provide before/after results, etc, etc, etc.
      In regards to the changes to Surgical Strikes:

      We arrived at these figures after a LOT of internal testing. Parsing using different weapon types, comparing to multiple different firing modes, in many various different weapon configurations.

      In all of the tests we performed, even after the above changes, Surgical Strikes reliably outperformed every combination of Weapon Type and Firing Mode we tried, once the player had a reasonable amount of +CritH and +CritD.

      Those "reasonable amounts" by the way were 15% Crit Chance, and +200 Crit Severity. Values reasonably obtained by many players, and hilarious outstripped by our high-end performers.

      So, despite the reductions contained in these Patch Notes, we feel the ability is still desirable by players properly geared to get the most out of it. We encourage anyone interested in how this affects their performance to copy over to Redshirt and try it out for themselves. Your feedback is welcome. (Parses of before/after performance would be even better!)
      Yes, but in single-target scenarios. If multi-target modes (FAW and CSV) outperform SS when fighting multiple opponents, that's acceptable.
    • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      Oh look, nonstop crying from PvP has gotten something else nerfed.

      Someone should make a dedication plaque for all of the powers and items that PvPers got nerfed.
      meimeitoo wrote: »
      Oh look, nonstop crying from PvP has gotten something else nerfed.

      Someone should make a dedication plaque for all of the powers and items that PvPers got nerfed.

      Well, they should. We simply brought it to their attention, and they did their own testing. If crying gets us more balance to something that Cryptic's own testing agreed is an outlier, well, we're going to cry away, and damn whatever you guys think.
      In regards to the changes to Surgical Strikes:

      We arrived at these figures after a LOT of internal testing. Parsing using different weapon types, comparing to multiple different firing modes, in many various different weapon configurations.

      In all of the tests we performed, even after the above changes, Surgical Strikes reliably outperformed every combination of Weapon Type and Firing Mode we tried, once the player had a reasonable amount of +CritH and +CritD.

      Those "reasonable amounts" by the way were 15% Crit Chance, and +200 Crit Severity. Values reasonably obtained by many players, and hilarious outstripped by our high-end performers.

      So, despite the reductions contained in these Patch Notes, we feel the ability is still desirable by players properly geared to get the most out of it. We encourage anyone interested in how this affects their performance to copy over to Redshirt and try it out for themselves. Your feedback is welcome. (Parses of before/after performance would be even better!)

      All emphasis mine.

      However, bear in mind that some of us PvPers aren't all that happy with the exact method used to rebalance. We were actually thinking about its effect on PvE, you know.
    • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      oh no! a single target ability got nerfed so its not twice as good as CRF anymore! que pve'ers crying that a skill they don't use got nerfed. when FAW or CRF or TS get nerfed, you have my permission to complain.
    • jjdezjjdez Member Posts: 570 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      You know it's about time someone decided to speak out for the Borg NPCs and stand up for what's truly right. For too long now they have been the subject of all the OP-ness in this game without a single voice in their defense. Today another step has been taken in the right direction, towards equality for all, even Borg NPCs!
    • slickrick1707eslickrick1707e Member Posts: 75 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      jjdez wrote: »
      You know it's about time someone decided to speak out for the Borg NPCs and stand up for what's truly right. For too long now they have been the subject of all the OP-ness in this game without a single voice in their defense. Today another step has been taken in the right direction, towards equality for all, even Borg NPCs!

      Hey hey hey don't shake the short bus too much, if you do that the next thing that gets nerfed is the OP high yield photon mines deployed 100km away from the intended target using dispersal pattern alpha 1. But I have to agree with you the poor NPC's need some love.
    • alejogalejog Member Posts: 135 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      meimeitoo wrote: »
      Oh look, nonstop crying from PvP has gotten something else nerfed.

      Someone should make a dedication plaque for all of the powers and items that PvPers got nerfed.

      I'm so sorry for you. I guess the 2.5 pvpers that are left really have the ear of the devs. Here, have a tissue.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]-32nd Vipers- PvP Team

      Nothing is impossible to him who would try.... except getting cryptic to care about pvp.
    • jjdezjjdez Member Posts: 570 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      the poor NPC's need some love.

      Too bad that's only interpreted as them needing more HP. Can't wait until some NPCs unleash SS on some carebears though, it's going to be great for the week before they nerf it. You know after the QQ River bursts through the Kirkinator Dam like a sidewinder missile hitting a blanket fort.
    • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      alejog wrote: »
      I'm so sorry for you. I guess the 2.5 pvpers that are left really have the ear of the devs. Here, have a tissue.

      2.5? probably more like .7


      the fact that it STILL got nerfed proves more than anything that it was a super broken op skill, far beyond the range of effectiveness they want skills like it to operate at.
    • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      Hey hey hey don't shake the short bus too much, if you do that the next thing that gets nerfed is the OP high yield photon mines deployed 100km away from the intended target using dispersal pattern alpha 1. But I have to agree with you the poor NPC's need some love.

      They've tried to fudge NPCs having a certain amount of raw health to cover the lack of resistances and heals; but it seems like they're kind of missing on the damage side. Kind of like they increased the health of mobs a bit not to make them harder, but just to make them take longer to kill to try to shift the average completion times...not to increase any actual difficulty.

      Just gets into that thing of if they were to match both the health and damage of NPCs closer to players, while giving them more of the abilities that players can use (like they're doing with the Herald Sphere)...well, wouldn't it make it easier to balance things for both PvE and PvP since they'd be closer?

      Random Pugs going at it = Normal
      Channel Pugs going at it = Advanced
      Premades going at it = Elite

      Could also potentially address some of those concerns from folks not feeling like their choices were valid or viable for PvE while they can be appreciated for PvP.

      Then in the process of looking at all that...maybe something could be done for Engineers...lol.
    • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
      edited March 2015
      They've tried to fudge NPCs having a certain amount of raw health to cover the lack of resistances and heals; but it seems like they're kind of missing on the damage side. Kind of like they increased the health of mobs a bit not to make them harder, but just to make them take longer to kill to try to shift the average completion times...not to increase any actual difficulty.

      Just gets into that thing of if they were to match both the health and damage of NPCs closer to players, while giving them more of the abilities that players can use (like they're doing with the Herald Sphere)...well, wouldn't it make it easier to balance things for both PvE and PvP since they'd be closer?

      Random Pugs going at it = Normal
      Channel Pugs going at it = Advanced
      Premades going at it = Elite

      Could also potentially address some of those concerns from folks not feeling like their choices were valid or viable for PvE while they can be appreciated for PvP.

      Then in the process of looking at all that...maybe something could be done for Engineers...lol.

      Really gotta wonder, with this Herald Sphere... if the reason they fixed SS is because they're about to drop it on NPC's. :P
      SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci

      SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci

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      Build questions? Look here!
    • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      Really gotta wonder, with this Herald Sphere... if the reason they fixed SS is because they're about to drop it on NPC's. :P

      Meh, I don't expect that stuff to survive the trip to Holodeck...and expect it to drown in complaints after it gets there. It hasn't with other stuff in the past. :(
    • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      Oh look, nonstop crying from PvP has gotten something else nerfed.

      Someone should make a dedication plaque for all of the powers and items that PvPers got nerfed.

      Oh come now if you think anything has ever been changed because it would help PvP in anyway.

      There is one simple reason this is getting fixed now.

      Because within 2 weeks you will be chasing new skills under the pilot spec.

      If you haven't figured out that anything new Cryptic puts out is going to be Broken/overpowered for 4-6 months until it is "fixed" before the next new shiny. Well if you really don't understand that... come and play my new game called "bridge sales simulator" we have gamble boxes that are bridge themed and our bridge box keys only cost 50c there pretty much a steal. Every box has a very very good chance to contain a bridge Honest.
    • nikolaykuznetsovnikolaykuznetsov Member Posts: 149 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      PVP community outcry helped to forget some of inherent SS weakness as lower number of pulses which meant lower DEM damage and lower number of hits per second = lower plasmonic leech bonus. SS was unbalanced only in PVP environment and not in PVE.
      PVP community was right in their demands for SS nerf but in PVE aspect of game SS was necessary because of insane shield and hull HP of NCP.
      And here we are at new failed patch and new nerf of usable weapon/ability.
      If anybody wants to help PVP it shouldn't be on PVE expense, when nerf hits weapons and abilities it should also hit NCP hitpoints and shield strength or implement nerf only in PVP maps and Kerrat where NPC are lvl 50.
      Max. One-Hit: 114,966 (Quantum Torpedo - Salvo II (Federation Typhoon Class Battleship))
    • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      PVP community outcry helped to forget some of inherent SS weakness as lower number of pulses which meant lower DEM damage and lower number of hits per second = lower plasmonic leech bonus. SS was unbalanced only in PVP environment and not in PVE.
      PVP community was right in their demands for SS nerf but in PVE aspect of game SS was necessary because of insane shield and hull HP of NCP.
      And here we are at new failed patch and new nerf of usable weapon/ability.
      If anybody wants to help PVP it shouldn't be on PVE expense, when nerf hits weapons and abilities it should also hit NCP hitpoints and shield strength or implement nerf only in PVP maps and Kerrat where NPC are lvl 50.

      So your ok with a developer that would take ALL the games NPCS and buff there hull and shields to a point where the only viable skill in your estimation is one locked behind a paywall.

      Sounds like you should find a better game to play, unless you fancy yourself a mark.
    • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      Good point, but PVE will soon be hit by those abilities by NPCs. Then PVPers are going to say "Why were we ignored?" "We warned you!"

      so much this!!! lol pve-heroes, waiting for the qq that still will come up if they encounter it after-altering. i don't say nerf, as i don't think it is really a nerf :rolleyes:...
    • nikolaykuznetsovnikolaykuznetsov Member Posts: 149 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      bobs1111 wrote: »
      So your ok with a developer that would take ALL the games NPCS and buff there hull and shields to a point where the only viable skill in your estimation is one locked behind a paywall.
      You misunderstud. I couldn't blame you because I'm not native English speaker and I'm writing this on tablet.
      I'm not ok with insane NPC HP/shields.
      Unfortunately devs allready buffed them for DR and with ss and neutronic nerf they effectively destroyed only viable skills withouth buffing others or nerfing NPC. That was my point.
      Why are SS locked behind paywall, i didn't pay money for Eclipse or Phantom?
      bobs1111 wrote: »

      Sounds like you should find a better game to play, unless you fancy yourself a mark.
      I won't even comment this.
      Max. One-Hit: 114,966 (Quantum Torpedo - Salvo II (Federation Typhoon Class Battleship))
    • drake122svkdrake122svk Member Posts: 731 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      I don't understand why PVE folks complain about this nerf, anything not flying a FAW Scimitar in PVE is sub-optimal these days anyway.
    • nikolaykuznetsovnikolaykuznetsov Member Posts: 149 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      With neutronic torpedo nerf, ss nerf and ionic turbulence nerf how long it will take for PVP to recover? Is it doable or will devs have to create new game? :D
      Max. One-Hit: 114,966 (Quantum Torpedo - Salvo II (Federation Typhoon Class Battleship))
    • nandospcnandospc Member Posts: 1,260 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      Finally the fix i was waiting for, ty devs :) I'm looking forward to see the parses and confirm if it's enough or still need a tweak in pvp ;)
    • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      You misunderstud. I couldn't blame you because I'm not native English speaker and I'm writing this on tablet.
      I'm not ok with insane NPC HP/shields.
      Unfortunately devs allready buffed them for DR and with ss and neutronic nerf they effectively destroyed only viable skills withouth buffing others or nerfing NPC. That was my point.
      Why are SS locked behind paywall, i didn't pay money for Eclipse or Phantom?

      Zen only enters the game one way.

      You decided to mine Dilithium and sell your time to another player who paid for the zen. So sure didn't cost you anything but your time. Someone however paid Cryptic for your ship, they just couldn't be bothered farming D and traded with you... your time for there $.

      No one flies a Phantom Eclipse or any other zen ship without Cryptic making money.

      So now you are going to have to farm more D to sell to another player again for ZEN ($) in order to get the new pilot skills. Which I will bet are also very much messed up out of the gate and will make the NPCs a joke... for 4-6 months until the next round of shiny stuff is about to hit. That is when they will nerf the broken pilot stuff.

      I hope my meaning translates. :)
    • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      bobs1111 wrote: »
      Zen only enters the game one way.

      You decided to mine Dilithium and sell your time to another player who paid for the zen. So sure didn't cost you anything but your time. Someone however paid Cryptic for your ship, they just couldn't be bothered farming D and traded with you... your time for there $.

      No one flies a Phantom Eclipse or any other zen ship without Cryptic making money.

      So now you are going to have to farm more D to sell to another player again for ZEN ($) in order to get the new pilot skills. Which I will bet are also very much messed up out of the gate and will make the NPCs a joke... for 4-6 months until the next round of shiny stuff is about to hit. That is when they will nerf the broken pilot stuff.

      I hope my meaning translates. :)

      They did do a decent job with Command, though - mostly. At least not to the level of the fiasco Intel was.
    • nikolaykuznetsovnikolaykuznetsov Member Posts: 149 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      scurry5 wrote: »
      They did do a decent job with Command, though - mostly. At least not to the level of the fiasco Intel was.

      All goes to same, remove intel spec and nerf NPC HP.
      Max. One-Hit: 114,966 (Quantum Torpedo - Salvo II (Federation Typhoon Class Battleship))
    • illoominartiilloominarti Member Posts: 40 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      They can fix whatever they want now, but game has surpassed the no coming back point. They should have addressed this before nearly everyone had quitted. This change won't do anything because it will not bring back anyone. It took too much time, and the content they make keeps adding to the broken list at a faster pace than they "fix" them.

      Bleah. I'll go back creating Lag Industries club livery in DC.

      On a side note, game's not even fixed enough to justify a comeback, and it will never happen for the above reasons.
    • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
      edited March 2015
      When the ~20 T5 ships I had for end-game PVP are competitive again without requiring a shakedown payment, I'll queue up again
    This discussion has been closed.