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The Crystalline Energy Torpedo
radakill
Member Posts: 119 Arc User
OK....
Just got through reading the discription of this torpedo... AAAAAAND... I have a problem with how the enhancements were assigned to it.
Here is why:
The description clearly states that even though this weapon is a torpedo, it is an ENERGY torpedo and is NOT enhanced by the normal torpedo skills and/or abilities. Here is a direct quote from the info page:
NOW, with all that in mind, the problem I have is that, right after Cryptic stated clearly that this weapon is NOT enhanced by traditional torpedo skills/abilities/items, (ie- kinetic skills or items) they list torpedo weapon skills, and not energy, as the skill enhancement!?!?
The bottom 5 lines of the info screen reads as follows:
So now, in effect, you have skills that effect kinetic weapon damage enhancing the weapon, even though it is an energy AP weapon, and after you stated that traditional skills will NOT affect this weapon.
Any Dev, please explain.
Thanks!
Just got through reading the discription of this torpedo... AAAAAAND... I have a problem with how the enhancements were assigned to it.
Here is why:
The description clearly states that even though this weapon is a torpedo, it is an ENERGY torpedo and is NOT enhanced by the normal torpedo skills and/or abilities. Here is a direct quote from the info page:
Unlike most torpedo launchers, the Crystalline Energy Torpedo Launcher's damage is enhanced by abilities and items that improve Antiproton damage, and NOT those that improve traditional Torpedo weapons.
Unlike standard torpedoes, the Crystalline Energy Torpedo deals antiproton damage thus making it equally effective against both hull and shields.
NOW, with all that in mind, the problem I have is that, right after Cryptic stated clearly that this weapon is NOT enhanced by traditional torpedo skills/abilities/items, (ie- kinetic skills or items) they list torpedo weapon skills, and not energy, as the skill enhancement!?!?
The bottom 5 lines of the info screen reads as follows:
Skills that affect this ability:
Starship Weapons Training
(Improves All Weapon Damage)
Starship Projectile Weapon Training
(Improves Kinetic Weapon Damage)
So now, in effect, you have skills that effect kinetic weapon damage enhancing the weapon, even though it is an energy AP weapon, and after you stated that traditional skills will NOT affect this weapon.
Any Dev, please explain.
Thanks!
Post edited by radakill on
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pity, really. This would have been a torpedo that my engineers could use as well - I didn't train them in torp skill as they are done for cruisers/PvP - so essentially just beam weapons. But that would have been an alternative for fun escort PvE stuff
KDF: 2 tacs, 2 engs, 3 scis
KDF Roms: 3 tacs, 1 eng, 1 scis
FED: 2 tacs, 1 eng, 2 scis
TOS: 1 tac
all on T5 rep (up to temporal)
all have mastered Intel tree (and some more specs Points)
highest DPS: 60.982
Removing any gearing, traits, etc that could affect the damage of the torp (just R13 variant)...
4730.2
Rare
Mk XIII
9 Starship Weapon Training
9 Starship Projectile Weapons (as well as 9 Starship Energy Weapons)
Accolade (maybe)
0.05 + 1.2 + 0.4 + 0.495 + 0.495 + 0.02 = 2.66
4730.2 / 2.66 = 1778.27 or so
That seems kind of odd...but, maybe it's not actually 4730.2, yeah?
Now, a VR12 Counter-Command Deflector Array has the following potentially relevant boosts.
+8.8 Starship Energy Weapon Training; would expect this to add +0.044 to the above.
+17.5 Starship Projectile Weapon Training; would expect this to add +0.0875 to the above.
I slot the Deflector and...
4843.3
4843.3 - 4730.2 = 113.1
113.1 / 4730.2 = 0.0239
Wait...what?
Okay, er, let's remove that Deflector to take us back to the 4730.2 damage, yeah? Now I've got a full crew and a TT1 there, which provides both +18 to Starship Energy Weapons and Starship Projectile Weapons...so that should be a 0.09 added.
4846.5
4846.5 - 4730.2 = 116.3
116.3 / 4730.2 = 0.024586698
Wait...what?
Okay, let me double check here. Removed the T4 Aux Offensive. Not in a boat with any Mastery boosts to damage. Removed the Naus and Hierarchy guy. Removed the Command Platforms. No Nukara set bonuses (was 4pc Delta until I switched the Deflector). There's nothing that should be providing any kind of bonus boost or other boost that I can see.
Adding the Defense Platform back does not increase damage (not expected to based on the posts, just checking). Adding in the 4pc Command Platforms did not increase damage (not expected to based on the posts, just checking).
Okay then, how about working this backward, yeah?
TT1 (0.09; 9%) added 116.3 damage.
Fluidic Deflector (0.044; 4.4% / 0.0875; 8.75%) added 113.1 damage.
So I'm going to lean toward it actually being the Starship Projectile Weapons...so let's look.
116.3 / 0.09 = 1292.22
113.1 / 0.0875 = 1292.57
That's close enough to suggest that ~1292 is the base of the torp. Hrmmm, then what happened with that earlier calculation that showed it was 1778.27 or so?
1292
+ 9 Starship Weapon Training: + (1292 * 0.495) = + 639.54 = 1931.54
+ 9 Starship Weapon Training: + (1292 * 0.495) = + 639.54 = 2571.08
+ Accolade (???): + (1292 * 0.02) = + 25.84 = 2596.92
Okay, let's say that the Rarity bonus is right.
+ Rare: + (1292 * 0.025 * 2) = + 64.6 = 2661.52
4730.2 - 2661.52 = 2068.68
2068.68 / 1292 = 1.60
AND I'M A DUMMY, LOL! It's not 4730.2 / 2.66... /facepalm. How many times have I posted the damn formula and to goof it up like this? /facepalm I'm going to smoke. I could fix this post up to make it look tidy, but I have those moments...so why not share them.
Damage = Base * (1 - WeaponEnhancementBaseModifier) * (1 + WeaponPowerBoost) * (1 + WeaponEnhancementBoost) * (1 + SumAllStrengthBoost) * (1 + SumAllBonusBoost) * (1 - RangePenalty) * (1 - DamageResistance)
So it should have been...
4730.2 / (1 + 2.66); 4730.2 / 3.66 = 1292.4
So yeah, it was fine initially...bah, so much wasted effort/time, but I can be a dumbass and goof stuff up too.
So yeah, it's being affected by Starship Weapon Training and Starship Projectile Weapons.
But like they said, it's not affected by generic +Energy Weapon, generic +Torp consoles, generic +Torp boosts (like 2pc KHG/AMACO), etc, etc, etc.
It's boosted by Mag consoles (AP consoles).
It is boosted by AMP. Believe they said All Damage would.
It is boosted by EPtW though...hrmmm, that's curious, since it wasn't boosted by the 4pc Command Platforms.
And well, I just saw what time it was...so that's enough for now.
/facepalm
Fixed.
As intended. Yes, it's not quite what we said earlier, but it's also a bit of a confusing mouthful to make a public statement that includes every "except this, and except for this, and except for that" so we simplified.
If you feel like any of these -should- affect this weapon, please feel free to list them individually and we'll review them on a case-by-case basis, when there's time. But, at a glance, this appears to be working as intended.
Yes. Si. Da.
EptW includes "+XX% All Energy Damage" as an effect in addition to increasing Weapon Power. It is this effect that improves this torpedo's damage, and is intended.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
For some reason, I thought it was All Energy Weapon Damage...but yeah, All Energy Damage would be working as intended and separate it from the Energy Weapon Damage of the 4pc Command Platforms.
Thanks.
Personally, I don't see why it shouldn't be boosted by Warhead Yield Chamber and Vulnerability Locator/Exploiter [+Torp] consoles. That would give it some real utility on a torpedo boat. If it's boosted by torpedo skills, I don't really see why generic torpedo consoles should be exempt. Then again, maybe you don't want a non-kinetic weapon being boosted on a torp boat without weakening the kinetic torps... Tricky situation.
Anyway, right now, it just feels like we're being forced into an AP build if we want to get real benefit out of this. I love the concept of the weapon, but I can only see myself running it on my builds that are already boosting AP. So that makes it kinda disappointing to me. I plan on running it on my B'rel because it's pretty, regardless :P
Or maybe this torpedo just isn't right for whatever build you're running.
One of our primary duties as Designers is to create meaningful choices. It's not a choice if it's perfect for everyone.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
You mean there's more than one build? just like its not all DPS based ? that there's a trinity ? . Sorry but anything that doesnt meet the Meta builds is broken by some players train of thought . and its reenforced by the way event and endgame is designed to be completed .
Something to consider is that the fact that AP has two omni-directional beam arrays plus now an energy torpedo, it may give AP more desirable advantages over other energy types. Other energy types don't seem to have any of these extra unusual weapons types.
I fly a Sci in a Geneva that tanks, heals, and while he doesn't do Wizard-DPS does overkill DPS for the content.
Just because so-and-so is doing something, doesn't mean you have to do it. And if you want to do it, then what's the complaint?
Oh totally, I understand and agree. I'm not saying it should be viable on every single build regardless of its configuration. This torpedo just feels really roped into being used with one energy type build right now.
I have so many different builds, wanting this torpedo to be a good fit for all of them would just be selfish. I see it having real potential on torpedo boats, though, and I feel that would expand its usefulness beyond a single energy type.
Other energy/torpedo types have some fun exclusive toys too. They're mostly in the lobi store, though.
Definitely.
My argument would be to treat this torp as neither fish nor foul and let ONLY generic torp/Energy weapon consoles (In addition to Mag Pulse) effect it. You said earlier its about making choices? Well giving us those options forces us to make more choices about using certain types of tac consoles in our builds.
It's hard to make choices when there aren't options.
Yep and five years later that perfect bop of my dreams hasn't come to be yet.
Options?
You have the option of using a torpedo or not. If you decide to use a torpedo, then you've got all sorts of options.
Heck, how about just looking at some of the Weapon Sets with their mix of Energy and Kinetic, eh? Omega Adapted, Singularity Harness, Protonic Arsenal, Temporal Warfare, Nukara Appropriated, Silent Enemy, Apex Predator, Delta Operations, Counter Command Ordnance...
If you want certain things from those, then you have to weigh those options....right?
This is a torp that's going to have folks weighing options.
Some folks will totally skip it because it is a torp and they'll consider it a DPS-loss regardless of whether it runs off their AP consoles or not.
Some folks who want to run a torp will skip it even if they're running AP, because there's going to be a torp that better fits what they're doing.
There are options all over the place.
Let's see. Say I'm running Polaron, and I want a torp. *Gasp* There's a torp in a set with polaron weaponry! I wonder if there's some synergy? Wait, what's that? The torp gets better in a set with polaron weapons? Crazy!
But what if I'm running Plasma? What's that? There's a torp in a set with plasma weaponry that has a good console, a good weapon, a good torp, and a good 2-set? This is crazy?
But what about phaser? What about disruptor? What? There's a set for those?
But, Vel, you say, what if I'm running tetryon? Well, no torp for you. In exchange, you get to buff up your tat cascade with your tac consoles, and you still have 2 2-sets. And there are set mines.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
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That's a really good point!!!
Tetryon needs a torpedo!!! (yes i know web mines, and they can actually do some good dps, but a torpedo!!
Plasma has 2 special torpedoes, a special beam that costs no energy to use, and multiple consoles + multiple sets that boost the hell of out them.
I never once stated that there WEREN'T options. But my point was: What's wrong with adding more? Options that honestly, are minimal, yet as we both can agree, this torp is mildly weaksauce and slanted towards an AP Build - at best. The options I suggested would make them a tad bit more acceptable to other builds, however minimal.
So you're not interested in using the:
- 50,000 Dilithium Ore
- 500 Fleet Marks
- 250 Reputation Marks of your Choice
?
We have players that religiously avoid Ground Combat, yet we gave away a Ground Weapon (Zephram Cochrane's Shotgun) in our previous appointment event. This isn't a new thing.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
In my case...event burnout I'm afraid. :-/
Running Winter Wonderland and the Anniversary Omega event back to back, even with the other rewards, I just didn't want to think about taking on another major grind so soon.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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But, but, but, Bort....
...everybody needed their boomstick, even if they hate Ground.
Got my crystalline torpedo today -- lovely visuals. I'll make it work on something. I can probably work it into my Mobius build without losing too much...might actually gain from boosting the Chroniton beam and omnis farther.
I really want it on my B'rel (reminds me of the torps in The Undiscovered Country), but I don't want to switch it to AP energy weapons, so that'll be tough...
On a sidenote, I'd really like to see these special goodies make it into the lobi store or something. It's a shame my newer characters don't seem to have an opportunity to get the things they've missed.
-edit-
Ouch, Crystalline Energy Torpedo Spread 3 is parsing lower than my standard Chroniton Torpedo Mk XII [CrtD]x3 firing normally on the Mobius...this will need some work.
This would be pretty great. I know there's some past rewards I'd pay lobi for.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Army of Darkness...a true classic:D:)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Since it IS listed as a torpedo weapon, I feel that non-console effects which boost torpedo damage (like the KHG/Adapted Maco set bonus, or other torpedo specific set bonuses) should affect it. It's just not a kinetic projectile weapon, so avoiding doubling up on tac consoles is completely understandable.
By their nature it's hard to stack up set bonuses to huge numbers, and in all honesty I doubt a static 25% bonus by the adapted maco would break it, but letting that apply would increase the options to use the torpedo for more than just tactical focused ships.
Hmm, I don't really follow. How is this really any different than using something like this simple mixed energy example?
- Weapons: AP DHC, Disruptor DHC
- AP Mag Regulator, Prefire Chamber
Sure, the AP DHC is getting boosted by both consoles...but not to the same extent it would if you just slotted a second mag regulator instead.
Since there are no generic +energy consoles, you'd never be able to boost the Crystalline more than you can boost any given energy weapon or torpedo. Boosting it with all AP consoles would always win out.
I really don't see the issue. Is there something obvious I'm missing?
Or did I misunderstand, and this is less about boosts and more about the type of build you could use it with, if it benefited from +Torp consoles?
Most of the people here don't understand the value of this torpedo yet is the problem
Most are hung up on what their parser says and only about padding that bottom line of DPS
In a 5 man DPS team it might not be a good weapon , Because massive spraying of DPS destroys everything before it can do any damage to the team
The way one way of curbing that is to make warp core breachs more powerful and to give NPC hull more resists to energy weapons and to give NPCs more Defense values to make ACC more required than Crit Sev
But the Event AP Torpedo
Is perfect for shield destruction......and in Pugs where enemys have shields are the prime targets not parser padding
This Torpedo gets you inside the shield quickly so you and your low DPS team mates can get to the juicy center of a Tac cube or sphere
For a low DPS Fleet team 5 to 10k this is a wonder weapon
For parcer peeps or DPS teams or torp builds its not a good weapon
Most of us already know how much more powerful AP energy weapons are especially when crafted , If you don't know then ignorance is bliss , I wont try to change your mind carry on
The only bad thing about it is its not for Photons hahaa
That and now I got some ships to switch over to AP builds now
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse