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Forums > Home› Ten Forward

Say something positive about...Neelix.

worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
edited March 2015 in Ten Forward
You heard me.

What redeeming features are there to this incompetent, abusive, lying, unhygenic, tyrannical, arrogant, filthy jerk?

What could possibly in any way redeem him from any fraction of his being a titanic waste of Ethan Phillips?

Good luck.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Whether or not you liked that personality, unlike the absolute fails with some of the VOY characters, he actually HAD a clear personality and you could actively like or dislike him. If there was one thing Neelix was NOT, it was not mere scenery. For that reason, I have to rate him above Chakotay, Harry Kim, and even B'Elanna, who to me never came across as a distinct personality other than Klingon Lite.

    Now, I did not develop any real antipathy towards him when I watched VOY the one time--but some of that again might be that he actually HAD a strong personality evident. Did he TRIBBLE up, not fit in sometimes, etc.? Yeah. But look at how quickly Chakotay's Maquis background was waved away and he suddenly became the Model Starfleet Officer and Janeway Yes Man. Give me a choice between Chakotay and Neelix and I don't even have to think about which one I'd rather watch.

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  • moonshadowdarkmoonshadowdark Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    He was the only crew member since Scotty to give anyone a genuine hug.

    Ethan Philips loved everyone and Neelix let him show it.

    It's one of the things I wished Cryptic had gotten right with Delta Rising. Second Neelix saw Tuvok, should have been a hug moment.
    "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"

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  • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    edited March 2015
    Wow... this is... quite painful...

    He... cared after young Naomi Wildman?

    Granted, he was still a terrible babysitter... but, his self-centered, lazy, lying, and clueless heart was in the right place... generally.
    d87926bd02aaa4eb12e2bb0fbc1f7061.jpg
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    "Jetrel". One of the few VOY episodes that was actually good despite Ken Billers best efforts to sh*t all over it.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    starswordc wrote: »
    "Jetrel". One of the few VOY episodes that was actually good despite Ken Billers best efforts to sh*t all over it.

    Granted. It had a lot of potential. 'Course, Biller can't write, so he spent most of the episode making Jetrel as much of a jerk as possible instead of giving us an Oppenheimer and the Bomb flashback scene like he should have.

    I'm going to say...it might be possible to make Neelix useful in a survival situation, by eating him. After removing the skin (because it's filthy) and any parasites, of course.
  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    tough... nothing against the actor, was good at that... um... he got a vulcan to dance?
  • cptjhuntercptjhunter Member Posts: 2,288 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    He exhales carbon dioxide, which is good for plants.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    He did his best to kill Janeway...have to give him kudos for the efforts.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    moonshadowdark wrote: »
    He was the only crew member since Scotty to give anyone a genuine hug.

    Ethan Philips loved everyone and Neelix let him show it.

    It's one of the things I wished Cryptic had gotten right with Delta Rising. Second Neelix saw Tuvok, should have been a hug moment.
    I think that was only because we don't have a hug emote/animation programmed in.

    Also Worfan hates him... He must be a good guy. :D

    Hehe... But seriously, he was a very open genuinely caring guy, and he really did try his best to make those around him happy.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    markhawkman wrote: »
    I think that was only because we don't have a hug emote/animation programmed in.

    Also Worfan hates him... He must be a good guy. :D

    Hehe... But seriously, he was a very open genuinely caring guy, and he really did try his best to make those around him happy.

    By poisoning crew members, refusing to stop serving the food that was poisoning crew members, almost destroying the ship with cheese, badgering a heavily-pregnant biologist into trying to fix his replicators (at which point the poor dear promptly went into labor), telling scary stories to children after having been explicitly told not to, getting multiple people killed as a direct result of his incompetence in a field that he professed expertise in, and making massive modifications to the ship without permission while refusing to do the job that he had taken over with tyrannical arrogance, yes.

    All of the above are things that Neelix has actually done on screen.

    Also, he refuses to let people eat food prepared in any way other than his own, despite the fact that people ranging from Tom Paris to a Borg drone (who probably doesn't even have a sense of taste anymore) have expressed their loathing for Neelix's cooking.

    On top of that, he is emotionally abusive towards his girlfriend and gets thrown out of Sickbay for his abject incompetence.

    God, I loathe that sh*theaded waste of space and air!
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    He did the best he could with what he had.

    I mean, it's not like he was a formally-trained member of some spaceborne militia or something - he was an interstellar trader, who spent (from what we saw of distances in VOY) probably years alone in that crappy little ship of his, winding up with who knows what psychological and neurological damage from solitude and eating what he could get. It's amazing he even knew how to get along in a starship crew - after a couple of years, it wouldn't have been unreasonable for him to snap from all the unaccustomed constant company, and start killing and cooking the crew! (Then again, we seldom saw the same background people from one episode to the next - you don't think that maybe.... naw, I'm sure his stew was legit.)
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    He did the best he could with what he had.

    I mean, it's not like he was a formally-trained member of some spaceborne militia or something - he was an interstellar trader, who spent (from what we saw of distances in VOY) probably years alone in that crappy little ship of his, winding up with who knows what psychological and neurological damage from solitude and eating what he could get. It's amazing he even knew how to get along in a starship crew - after a couple of years, it wouldn't have been unreasonable for him to snap from all the unaccustomed constant company, and start killing and cooking the crew! (Then again, we seldom saw the same background people from one episode to the next - you don't think that maybe.... naw, I'm sure his stew was legit.)

    The problem was that he repeatedly boasted of his prowess shortly before failing utterly at whatever he'd just boasted of, be it cooking, rock climbing, or wilderness survival.

    Then again...if he was half-mad from being a lone trader in Kazon space...god, the sheer humiliation of being BEATEN by those morons! That could drive ANYONE mad!
  • antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,391 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    It's amazing he even knew how to get along in a starship crew - after a couple of years, it wouldn't have been unreasonable for him to snap from all the unaccustomed constant company, and start killing and cooking the crew! (Then again, we seldom saw the same background people from one episode to the next - you don't think that maybe.... naw, I'm sure his stew was legit.)

    I'm sure with hydroponics and limited replicator capabilities, the Voyager crew wasn't looking too closely where he 'scrounged' animal protein. :P


    In all seriousness, I imagine from an in-universe perspective, his relentlessly cheery attitude had to be very helpful to people very far from home and without support. He also always seemed to take his duties seriously, and was willing to volunteer for additional responsibility (if, as worffan points out at length, not always competently).
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  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    antonine3258 wrote: »
    I'm sure with hydroponics and limited replicator capabilities, the Voyager crew wasn't looking too closely where he 'scrounged' animal protein. :P


    In all seriousness, I imagine from an in-universe perspective, his relentlessly cheery attitude had to be very helpful to people very far from home and without support. He also always seemed to take his duties seriously, and was willing to volunteer for additional responsibility (if, as worffan points out at length, not always competently).

    Gonna have to call BS on that--his "duties" are physically impossible for any humanoid without either superspeed and a 15-station kitchen or time-dilation powers to perform.

    Also, he has refused to get food for other crew members despite that being his self-appointed job. And he refuses to wear safety equipment while rock-climbing, because he's stupid.

    For more:
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    Plastic Chef Neelix
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    worffan101 wrote: »
    With blood and rage of crimson red, ripped from a corpse so freshly dead, together with our hellish hate, we'll burn you all, that is your Fate!
    Fixed. :P

    I do have to wonder if Talaxians have a different sense of taste than most humanoids. It would explain why he thinks his food tastes good and most don't.
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  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Ethan Philips acting.
    He plays the village idiot, like a true master.
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    He wasn't a pederast...
  • guljarolguljarol Member Posts: 980 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    His cooking was imaginative... maybe not always edible, but certainly interesting.
  • steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
    edited March 2015
    He made a pretty decent Ferengi, considering how little time he had to prepare.
  • cidjackcidjack Member Posts: 2,017 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    He has his own cookbook!
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  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    A positive thing about Neelix... "I don't have to tolerate him", does that count?
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    marcusdkane wrote: »
    He wasn't a pederast...

    Um...Kes was 1 when she was picked up on Ocampa Prime.

    And while Ocampa biology, et cetera, and we've had this debate, it WAS still VERY off-putting to me from the get-go.

    Anyway...

    Neelix showed me how NOT to write him for "The Mysterious Case of Neelix's Lungs".
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    worffan101 wrote: »
    Um...Kes was 1 when she was picked up on Ocampa Prime.

    And while Ocampa biology, et cetera, and we've had this debate, it WAS still VERY off-putting to me from the get-go.
    So, you're humanocentric. It's not uncommon, and in fact it's one of the things leading to values dissonance between the Moab Confederacy and the Federation in the Masterverse stories - the "child soldiers" were able to enlist because at the time they were a Klingon protectorate, and by Klingon standards they were of age.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,391 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    worffan101 wrote: »
    Gonna have to call BS on that--his "duties" are physically impossible for any humanoid without either superspeed and a 15-station kitchen or time-dilation powers to perform.

    Also, he has refused to get food for other crew members despite that being his self-appointed job. And he refuses to wear safety equipment while rock-climbing, because he's stupid.

    For more:
    Neelix
    Plastic Chef Neelix

    So we can add super-speed or possibly time dilation powers, then to his positive factors. :D

    Also, the fact no one stepped in over seven years seems to indicate the rest of the crew felt he had the best cooking skills, since no one bothered even to try learning to replace him if they hadn't cooked before. :P
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  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    So, you're humanocentric. It's not uncommon, and in fact it's one of the things leading to values dissonance between the Moab Confederacy and the Federation in the Masterverse stories - the "child soldiers" were able to enlist because at the time they were a Klingon protectorate, and by Klingon standards they were of age.

    Maybe unconsciously.

    I don't think that the Ocampa are adults, though. MDK and I agreed that Kes WAS (although it was very off-putting when they kept mentioning her age, it SOUNDED creepy) an adult, but the rest of the Ocampa...just sitting there, watching TV (and not even good TV, just endless pictures of the sky), content to eat what the Caretaker sends them and live in abject boredom...Kes is the only one who shows any agency or drive.

    Now, the Moab Confederacy...they're Human (or at least the soldiers in question are), so they get judged by Human standards, not Klingon standards. That's a war crime by the Klingon Empire as well as the Confederacy in letting them enlist, just like drafting Sway was a war crime. Just like the war crimes committed by Human nations during our two historical world wars in letting teenagers enlist (or even forcing them to as TRIBBLE Germany did).

    I'm VERY serious about this.

    Anyway...Kes, I admit, qualifies as an adult, although I would note that most Vulcans probably didn't accept Humans as adults at first due to our short lifespans and Archer being an immature jerk. It's...eh, it's complicated. :/
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    antonine3258 wrote: »
    So we can add super-speed or possibly time dilation powers, then to his positive factors. :D

    Also, the fact no one stepped in over seven years seems to indicate the rest of the crew felt he had the best cooking skills, since no one bothered even to try learning to replace him if they hadn't cooked before. :P

    This man sent people to Sickbay with food poisoning, and insisted on continuing to serve the contaminated food.

    That's outright criminal, and a major writing fail in not having him instantly court-martialed and kicked off the ship.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    worffan101 wrote: »
    MDK and I agreed that Kes WAS ... an adult, but the rest of the Ocampa...just sitting there, watching TV (and not even good TV, just endless pictures of the sky), content to eat what the Caretaker sends them and live in abject boredom...Kes is the only one who shows any agency or drive.
    I greatly fear that as you gain more life experience, you're going to be sorely disappointed by what passes for an adult on Earth. Because I know far too many people who could be aptly described with the above.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    worffan101 wrote: »
    Um...Kes was 1 when she was picked up on Ocampa Prime.

    And while Ocampa biology, et cetera, and we've had this debate, it WAS still VERY off-putting to me from the get-go.

    Anyway...

    Neelix showed me how NOT to write him for "The Mysterious Case of Neelix's Lungs".
    As you say, we've discussed this already, and you conceded the point based on comparative alien aging rates, and Kes' ability to actually think outside the box unlike the other Ocampa... Kes was not a child, so if you find that off-putting, maybe you need to rethink your feelings on the subject, as mentioning her age as if Human growth applies really is quite ludicrous... Besides, he never abused Naomi or the Borg children, so my assertion stands: He wasn't a pederast, but that really is the only vaguely positive thing I can say about him...
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    I greatly fear that as you gain more life experience, you're going to be sorely disappointed by what passes for an adult on Earth. Because I know far too many people who could be aptly described with the above.
    ...

    Yeah, I guess I don't have much experience. I may have just had my first date without realizing it, actually. :eek:
    marcusdkane wrote: »
    As you say, we've discussed this already, and you conceded the point based on comparative alien aging rates, and Kes' ability to actually think outside the box unlike the other Ocampa... Kes was not a child, so if you find that off-putting, maybe you need to rethink your feelings on the subject, as mentioning her age as if Human growth applies really is quite ludicrous... Besides, he never abused Naomi or the Borg children, so my assertion stands: He wasn't a pederast, but that really is the only vaguely positive thing I can say about him...

    Yeah, I agree that Neelix wasn't a paedo and that Kes was an adult...I'm just saying that when I am reminded that the hot elf chick in the tight outfit who's dating the hedgehog is one, I have an instinctive, unconscious reaction of revulsion.

    Intellectually I recognize that Kes wasn't a child. Subconsciously, hearing that she is X single-digit age creeps me out.
  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    i made a thread for this, so we don't go too off topic, regarding... ocampa and... aging and sexual relationships
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