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Time to nerf Aux to Batt
darramouss1
Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
When Aux2BS DOFFs were first released, Aux2BS was pretty well balanced. Sure, you could reduce the cooldown on your abilities to global, but the loss of your auxiliary meant healing was very challenging.
Then Tac Team, Eng Team and Sci Team were taken off shared cooldown. This provided Aux2BS users the ability to increase their shield and hull healing regardless of their aux levels. They could even do it when their aux was offline. This is when Aux2BS moved in to OP land.
Nowadays, Aux2BS has moved beyond OP. Why? Because now traits and specialisations do all the healing your Sci Team and Eng Team can't manage, making auxiliary levels obsolete for a lot of ships. Now many Aux2BS ships are, in essence, 3 subsystem ships that happen to have the 3 subsystems they need at close to max power.
Now, the usual call is "But you can reduce cooldowns using DOFFs!!" Come now, we all know that that's ludicrous. Let's look at an Aux2BS ship with the following setup.
Tac Team I / CRF I / BO III / APO III
Tac Team I / APB I
EPtE I / Aux2BS I / EPtS III
Eng Team I / Aux2BS I
Sci Team I / OSS I
If you removed the Aux2BS slots and the 3 DOFFs required to run it you would need to add.....
2 Conn (Zemok) for the Attack Patterns
3 Energy Weapons for an 87.5% chance of reducing BO to global.
3 Energy Weapons for an 87.5% chance of reducing CRF to global. This can't be done at the same time as reducing BO to global, though.
3 DCEs for a 92.4% chance at reducing the Emergency Powers to global.
2 Maintenance Engineers to reduce Eng Team to global.
2 Development Lab Scientists to reduce Sci Team to global.
So. 15 DOFFs (which can't be done) to gain the 2 BOFF slots and 3 DOFF slots that Aux2BS uses. And you wouldn't be able to speed up OSS.
Some people I've spoken to regarding this say that it shouldn't be fixed because other things in the game are broken. So we should leave broken things in the game until ALL broken things are fixed in one fell swoop? That's like saying "I'm not going to fix the ignition on my car because the air-conditioning is broken".
Some people have also said "But there's Photonic Officer, that does the same thing". Well, no, it most certainly does not. If you have Photonic Officer II and III on your ship with photonic DOFFs on your ship you still can't consistently reduce your BOFF abilities to global. Making 2 copies of a Lt ability more powerful than a Lt Cmdr and a Cmdr put together. To my way of thinking, Cmdr abilities were meant to be more powerful that Lt abilities.
How to fix it? The easiest way would be to change Technician DOFFs so that they offer a chance at reducing the cooldown on BOFF abilities. This would go a long way to restoring the balance that this game so desperately needs.
Now, I know there's going to be a lot of players who are going to attack this post. Most of them will be Aux2BS users and I'm sure many will care more about someone talking about taking their OP ship away than they will be about the balance in the game. Well, if you want to attack this post then I challenge you to show why it's not OP. I feel I've done a pretty good job of showing why it is.
Then Tac Team, Eng Team and Sci Team were taken off shared cooldown. This provided Aux2BS users the ability to increase their shield and hull healing regardless of their aux levels. They could even do it when their aux was offline. This is when Aux2BS moved in to OP land.
Nowadays, Aux2BS has moved beyond OP. Why? Because now traits and specialisations do all the healing your Sci Team and Eng Team can't manage, making auxiliary levels obsolete for a lot of ships. Now many Aux2BS ships are, in essence, 3 subsystem ships that happen to have the 3 subsystems they need at close to max power.
Now, the usual call is "But you can reduce cooldowns using DOFFs!!" Come now, we all know that that's ludicrous. Let's look at an Aux2BS ship with the following setup.
Tac Team I / CRF I / BO III / APO III
Tac Team I / APB I
EPtE I / Aux2BS I / EPtS III
Eng Team I / Aux2BS I
Sci Team I / OSS I
If you removed the Aux2BS slots and the 3 DOFFs required to run it you would need to add.....
2 Conn (Zemok) for the Attack Patterns
3 Energy Weapons for an 87.5% chance of reducing BO to global.
3 Energy Weapons for an 87.5% chance of reducing CRF to global. This can't be done at the same time as reducing BO to global, though.
3 DCEs for a 92.4% chance at reducing the Emergency Powers to global.
2 Maintenance Engineers to reduce Eng Team to global.
2 Development Lab Scientists to reduce Sci Team to global.
So. 15 DOFFs (which can't be done) to gain the 2 BOFF slots and 3 DOFF slots that Aux2BS uses. And you wouldn't be able to speed up OSS.
Some people I've spoken to regarding this say that it shouldn't be fixed because other things in the game are broken. So we should leave broken things in the game until ALL broken things are fixed in one fell swoop? That's like saying "I'm not going to fix the ignition on my car because the air-conditioning is broken".
Some people have also said "But there's Photonic Officer, that does the same thing". Well, no, it most certainly does not. If you have Photonic Officer II and III on your ship with photonic DOFFs on your ship you still can't consistently reduce your BOFF abilities to global. Making 2 copies of a Lt ability more powerful than a Lt Cmdr and a Cmdr put together. To my way of thinking, Cmdr abilities were meant to be more powerful that Lt abilities.
How to fix it? The easiest way would be to change Technician DOFFs so that they offer a chance at reducing the cooldown on BOFF abilities. This would go a long way to restoring the balance that this game so desperately needs.
Now, I know there's going to be a lot of players who are going to attack this post. Most of them will be Aux2BS users and I'm sure many will care more about someone talking about taking their OP ship away than they will be about the balance in the game. Well, if you want to attack this post then I challenge you to show why it's not OP. I feel I've done a pretty good job of showing why it is.
Post edited by darramouss1 on
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Every time you called it Aux2BS your credibility dropped 10%
Free Tibet!
A2b is so irrelevant now with ship masteries its hardly worth a second thought.
Hey, I also fell asleep in season 7 and woke up yesterday, but I was planning an Aux2Bat build for my Delta Recruitment officer.
Please expand on why Aux2Bat is irrelevant now?
Well, irrelevant are a bit strong, but there are far superior ways to build a ship than a2b these days.
Thought so, you lost and now cry out about a (now) second-class ability in the forums. Good thing they didnt use SS on you^^
I do like the Idea of a % chance to trigger the ability cooldown, it would make it less impressive on performance while maintaining the basic principle of the doffs.
Also perhaps a reduction in the amount of power gained in 3 subsystems when tanking aux. I can't help scratch my head everytime I drop 80 aux power and gain 40x3 power in my other subsystems... where did the extra 40 units of power come from?
It's not about winning or losing, it's about balance. I can tank any escort in my Samsar, be they Aux2BS or not. I can shrug off SS in my Samsar, be they Aux2BS or not. That doesn't change the fact that I feel that it's not balanced.
Prior to the last patch I would land 1st place on Crystalline Entity 4 times out of 5 in my JHSS as CRF III would never stop, not for the whole match. I thought it was OP and posted about it in the forums and submitted tickets. Now it's been fixed and I'm happy as it's more balanced.
But in retrospect and from a balancing standpoint, in my opinion the problem was (and is) that you for some reason are allowed to stack identical A2B (Technician) doffs while other doffs are limited to one. Why can you do that? It makes no sense. Also, the level of A2B has no effect on the doff proc, it's always the same. Why? A similiar phenomenon persists with the teams and other abilities: Cryptic makes a lot of abilities sufficient in it's lvl 1 version, namely in clearing debuffs. Regardless if you have been hit with a lvl 1 or lvl 3 boarding party, a lvl 3 acetom beam or whatever - the lvl 1 ability always clears the debuff. In A2B case, the chance for the doff proc should vary with the lvl of ability used - in that case people had at least to dare a trade off.
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But in comparison with other (DCE, Zemok, reciprocity etc.) builds A2B is important for players that cannot afford mentioned doffs and builds because technicians can be obtained for free in doff assignment. It's important part of early reputation grind builds and it would be wrong to change it.
If OP has problem with players using A2B then he should improve his skill, if he considers that he is overpowered when using A2B build then, by all means, he should stop using it in order to allow other players fair gaming.
I don't think so, but it would make sense in my opinion. Most of the time the doff's effect doesn't make much sense to begin with (why does a A2B transfer reduce "cooldowns"?) but being able to profit to full effect on lvl 1 abilities often makes it moot to even consider slotting higher level abilities.
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The cost of an item on the exchange isn't a factor that should be considered when assessing whether it's balanced against other items.
I also disagree with your saying that it's an important part of reputation grinding. I have the Technicians to make many Aux2BS builds. I refrain from doing so as I don't agree with it. I have also had no difficulty in making new toons and taking them through the reputations. It's hardly a necessity, and if any player is having trouble then they can always join a helpful fleet or ask more experienced players for help. There are plenty of both in the game.
I run a defiant with 100-125 all systems. Reciprocity, bio neural gel pack,
1 beam officer, 1 cannon officer, 2 BO sheild pen, and EP2E doff that resets evasive. Everything i need is global. I am running evasive every 30 seconds and nothing ever hits me.
I will roll over most aux2bat build. When i came it was OP and all but now its just another style.
You are absolutely right but cost of item on exchange is factor which is very important in build creation, especially early build creation. Technicians aren't cheap but unlike DCE they are at least obtainable (I didn't bought any of them for a long time but I was under impression that DCE were cheaper than technicians)
Not all MMORPG players are team players, not all players have time for fleet activities and most players love line of least resistance and cookie cutter builds and A2B is sort of beginner c.cutter build.
PS
Calling A2B A2BS is immature and doesn't contribute to discussion if healthy discussion is what you wish. +1
Technicians are free to get (cost nothing), and ferra gives you two DCEs (or Technicians, well technically 4, but everything beneath blue arent that good, eh) for free, the third costs 100k in the Replicator (or 1mio for VR).
A2B even in its best of days had serious build compromises, i.e. nuking your Aux Power to zero or near zero levels. If you didn't have an Aux Battery off CD and you needed that Aux, you were screwed. And in a PVP scenario, if someone removes your Aux, your entire build collapses like an ant trying to hold up a semi-truck. For the PVE DPS'ers, they strive hard to get that Aux Power at 75 or higher in their efforts in hitting all 4 [AMP] core wickets.
That said, with all the things the game has offered, most esp since DR and Starship Traits, the lure of A2B isn't strong like it used to be. This is even more so if you're a Fed.
The only place where A2B would shine for me is reducing the TAC & ENG abilities with very long CDs without paying out the TRIBBLE for some DOFFs. Reducing the CD of APO, DEM predominantly. So I wouldn't have to fork out a lot of EC for the Attack Pattern CD Reduction DOFFs. Also, there is no trait that reduces the CD of ENG abilities the way it does with TAC (Reciprocity) and SCI (All Hands on Deck). If I wanted to use a lot more DEM (esp DEM3) without sacrificing lots of ENG space, I'd probably consider A2B.
I see what you're saying but disagree. People can still compete in normal STFs with white gear and blue DOFFs. Also, Cryptic have shown us that they don't want us to have everything instantly, as shown by time gating for rep projects, fleet projects, crafting, holiday events, etc etc, so why should this be any different?
Exchange pricing should never be a factor if game balance.
Pretty idiotic observation :rolleyes:
A2B at one point in this game was widely used in both PVE and PVP. Its use has gone down in general but the application of A2B has reaches to both sides of the game. But please, do go on with trying to find the boogeyman under your bed before you go to sleep every night.
Second - Tac/Eng/Sci teams not being on a shared cooldown doesn't really help Aux2Batt all that much. Most ships are capable of and do run two tac teams regardless. As for eng/sci teams.. eng team is pretty commonly used, but sci team.. kinda questionable, at least in PvE. I don't see many builds even using it. Yes, Aux2Batt will let you use them twice as often.. but in PvE, who cares? The tanky cruiser can heal a wee bit more. In PvP? Well.. most fights end before you'd get a second chance at using it anyway.
Third - Traits and specializations do healing? Not sure what traits and specializations you're using, but stop using them and use better ones.
Fourth - Aux2Batt ships are 3 subsystem ships running with max power in all 3 systems? Sure. Course, these days non Aux2Batt ships are 4 subsystem ships running with max power in all 4.. and gaining the benefits from Aux Offense traits (and/or defense). Non Aux2Batt's also free up those slots for DEM.
Fifth - That setup you're showcasing is just terrible. EPtE? No EPtW 3? CRF1 and a BO3? My guess is it's meant to be some sort of PvP vaper build.. but I'd not want to use it. Aux2Batt really isn't very useful to a vaper setup, as they tend to end any fights they start instantly.. or fail.
Frankly, Aux2Batt is just fine. It's not the best option out there, not by a long shot.. but it is a good setup to get an engineering heavy cruiser setup performing at a reasonable level. All it really does is allow these types of ships to utilize their engineering slots to effectively increase their number of tactical slots (as most are incapable of running multiple copies of tactical abilities). This lets them rotate through tactical abilities in the way they should be able to, had the game been designed properly from the get go. It also allows them to sacrifice their auxiliary power (and all the benefits that go with it) to gain increased power in their other systems, which tends to help less tricked out ships a good deal in the damage department (via weapon power) - especially when combined with EPtW 3.
The problem doesn't really lie with Aux2Batt ships, or even with the superior non aux2batt cruisers. They're pretty much operating as they should - pull up alongside a target, and broadside them while rotating through tactical beam abilities (not waiting forever for said abilities to be ready to use again). The problem lies with the design of escorts and even more so, with science ships. Cannons are also partly to blame, as they are the main boon an escort gains.. and not really worth using. Both are fundamentally flawed, in that they don't really gain additional damage over their cruiser counterparts. Escorts and science ships have fewer weapons, and while they have their own "methods" of dealing damage unique to them (escorts having access to cannons, science using science abilities) neither is particularly effective. The drawbacks are too great, the benefits too little. A cannon can do more damage than a beam array.. great, but you can only run cannons in your forward slots (either 4/3 or 5/2) so you're already basically looking at evened out damage compared to 4/4 cruisers. Likely less against a 5/3 cruiser with beam banks/omni. Then you've gotta take into account that you've got one less weapon slot. That's another damage hit. Then of course.. you've got the cannon abilities. They just don't stack up compared to their beam counterparts. All in all, cruisers are more streamlined and reliable - escorts and science.. a bit more gimmicky. They might be superior in certain situations, but in general they're not so great.
Were it up to me, I'd either abolish the cruiser/escort/science classification entirely or at least find a way to equalize them. All three types should have equal offense and defense. How they go about achieving that is where they should differ, not the end result of their total offense/defense. A cruiser shouldn't gain super defense (which isn't very useful) and in return hit like a limp noodle, and an escort should become a glass cannon in return for hitting way harder than anyone else. That type of design just doesn't work, which is why most other MMO's don't use it. They may have a trinity system where tanks gain defense and sacrifice offense, but different classes are all inherently on the same level. What you choose to specialize in determines what role in the trinity you fulfill. However, STO doesn't even have a trinity. Tanks and healers aren't needed, which is one piece of this game that's actually rather cool. It's one of the few I've seen that actually works without a trinity system. The idea that cruisers are "tanks" and shouldn't have much offense or that escorts are glass cannons that need to be protected is an outdated relic from when the game was first designed. Rather, each ship type should be able to be setup to gain both a reasonable defense and offense with the option of sacrificing one for the other as the player chooses - with the inherent capabilities of each being entirely equal.
A2B is the easiest build to obtain that will help a lot of ships that have limited tac stations. To nerf it because someone doesn't like it will only hurt those players.
Also, there is something else that I have never understood. Why is it that the cheapest, and easiest builds are attacked, when there are skills that really need help, but are not touched till the are on a T6 ship that is not selling.
TB has needed a boost since before I started playing in 2013. However, even with other ships in the C-Store that had a console that used it, the skill was not touched. Why? Those ships were doing enough power creep, or they sold good enough. But, a T6 ship not selling, and the skill finally gets the help it needs.
No one is complaining about other Boff skills that need help. They are only trying to have skills nerfed that they don't like.
Look at FAW, BO, and CSV. FAW has helped to make beam arrays, and DBBs the highest in DPS. BO after it was nerfed the last time is now weaker than it was before it was made to 100% crit. Therefore, the only reason to use it on a BA build is to focus on a single target to keep from drawing aggro.
CSV can hit up to 3 targets, but also has a much higher chance of missing than FAW. Not to mention that if there is only a single target to hit, CSV will not hit as much as CRV will on a single target. But, FAW is going to hit the target with all beams.
There are a lot of other skills out there that actually need work done to them. But, A2B is not one of them.
Besides, if the do nerf A2B, then what? It is not going to affect the op builds out there that are being used to get the highest DPS. This means that those builds will still be steam rolling the queued content on advanced, and thereby having developers nerf rewards, or do something else to make advanced queues more difficult than they should be.
Honestly, if they do nerf A2B, which is very slim, they will not nerf the power creep they are now selling. So, the real problem with power creep is still there, and not being touched. lol.
Beam overload is inherently flawed in that it only affects one weapon one time. Surgical strikes accomplishes much the same thing, but in a way that works.. So it's actually a good ability.
Cannon abilities are similarly limited by inherrent design flaws. Scatter volley is great against three targets closely packed together, but becomes almost useless against a single target. Combine this requirement for enemies to be located in a small frontal cone with cannons needing to be quite close to avoid damag dropoff, and you're left with a tiny area of effect.
Rapid fire works well, but again.. FAW accomplishes effectively the same thing (providing extra attacks) but better. While rapid fire is single target only, FAW is a single target that distributes damage amongst a group of enemies if more than one exists in range. Combine with the general limitations of cannons, its easy to see the flaws preventing these skills from being truly at the level they should be at.
TL/DR
To heck with you, OP. Aux2Batt is the only good thing going for the Galaxy. Don't take that away. Go TRIBBLE in someone else's cornflakes.
Does anyone really care about PvP anymore? Really?
The game is so remarkably screwed up that fixing A2B would hardly make a scratch of difference. Especially to fast moving escorts, who'll get their tac power timers reduced everytime someone misses them, they wouldn't even need Zemok.
Anyway, PvP is full of FBP+TBR sci-ships and super fast escorts, neither of which are big on needing A2B to perform well.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
If you need Aux2BS to make a Galaxy decent then you're not doing it right.
Unless your a PVPer then don't you have broken stuff to complain about.
With the OP t6, mastery ship traits, various DOFF, traits, power and items, it's just part of the unbalanced mess they call a videogame.
And they have no plan to change that soon, since they makes money by selling powercreep. Just have a look to the latest bugship, or the vaadwaur box.
A year back, I was in total agreement. Nowadays, a2b is no longer king of the opness.
Actually, assuming we're talking about the exploration cruiser retrofit (or even the Galaxy-X).. Aux2Batt would be about the only thing that might make that ship able to do much of anything at all. Even then it'd still be flat out terrible. It's limited to a single Lt tactical station.. that means even with aux2batt it'd effectively have two FAW 2's at best. No FAW 3. No APB. No APO. You could theoretically drop tactical team and go for FAW 1/APB 1, and with Aux2Batt effectively have two copies of each.. but you're still looking a terrible setup. It's also only got 2 tactical consoles. Tbh, it's one of the worst possible choices out there for a cruiser - as even with Aux2Batt it's still got almost no offensive capability at all.
That you don't know that.. really makes me question your overall knowledge of the game.
You can doubt my knowledge of the game all you like. People seem to forget that cruisers are not just there to pump DPS. They're also tanks and healers, too. Regardless, the right weapons, the right abilities and the Exploration cruiser (NOT Gal-X) is still a great ship. I fly it in PvP and can hold my head high when I do.