My suggestion would be to remove the queues completely. This doesnt mean to remove the content itself however. Instead, you can run them solo, or team up via private queues with a two to five person team (the amount of ships/difficulty would yield based on the number of players playing said mission).
I dont understand why Cryptic loves queues so much. Regardless if they didnt have any of the other issues mentioned, the fact is, there are just way too many queues and not enough of a game population to support them all.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
I haven't run any Borg ground STF's since DR launched, i used to run them all daily before DR hit, Hive Space i haven't run since DR, None of the Undine space missions, or the Tholians ones,
Why ?
After DR hit i ran Infected Space, Cure Space and Khitomer Space and almost fell asleep at the helm waiting for something to die after being faced with the Hitpoint sponges they introduced. (Note it was hitpoint sponges, overall dps of the NPC's were not changed)
This put me off running and trying any more DR revamped content, even though i play in pre-mades for the most part and missions usually are a success, that intial experience when DR went live has left me feeling very reserved about playing certain maps.
DR has all but killed Advanced/Elite pugging, with auto failure if optional is botched, So i don't drop in on Advanced queues like before DR where i could carry a team through most space content. To many people are not ready to jump into these missions with bad ship builds and no team play. Knowing a Infected Space is likely going to fail straight after the initally guards are killed and being removed from the map to me is why bother.
Many times i have attempted to pug Khitomer, i'm going fine killed my cube, spheres and transformer and bang mission fails as someone couldn't stop 2 probes flying through the gate. Or i go on probe duty oneside still kill the cube and spheres and transformer and still probes on the other side get through.
I like the extra Npc's they added in the Borg Space maps but overall my feelings on DR STF's queued events is that they butchered alot of it and unbalanced the missions
1) In what way did you reduce or end your participation in queued content?
2) Can you describe the exact experience that caused you to reach that decision? Anything you can do within the limits of civility to bring home to the reader exactly what that experience was like for a player would be helpful. (No flaming or trolling.)
3) What could Cryptic do to change your mind and get you to participate in the queues again?
1) I stopped playing all queues but Bug Hunt as that's the only one worth the time and effort. I ran Crystalline too before the recent nerf but no longer.
2) Optionals now required means that PUGs are a lot less likely to succeed and are vulnerable to trolls. Not fun at all.
Let the underpowered team take 45 minutes to complete a infected ! they will probably have FUN doing it
Geko open your eyes Bud and play the PUG Qs get out of your pre made team
I believe these fail condititions are the biggest thing hurting the game overall by destroying pug gameplay
Exactly what I was thinking...especially the part that even if I've gone into an event with an underpowered team, taking a really long time to finish it is "punishment" enough, with the old "failed optional" prize. And yes--in premades with my fleet, it WAS still fun even when we were not performing that great, because of being with friends. Getting ejected after 2 minutes and then slapped with a 1 hr. cooldown and insultingly tiny rewards--NOT cool.
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1) In what way did you reduce or end your participation in queued content?
It wasn't abrupt, but seeing Foundry doors on fly by in space factored into this quite a bit. Foundry accessibility and the abundance of ad-hoc group content has rendered the queues obsolete and serve more as tools for benchmarking your performance. Well, for those that are still chasing ever higher numbers in an effort to blap pixels as quickly as possible.
2) Can you describe the exact experience that caused you to reach that decision? Anything you can do within the limits of civility to bring home to the reader exactly what that experience was like for a player would be helpful. (No flaming or trolling.)
Not sure how to answer this in relation to the first question and answer, but I'll give it a go.
STO development has made, by all outward appearances, story presentation as it's purpose in life. Story based expansions, VO's from Star Trek alum, remastered missions, great cinematics, rich characters for us to interact with, and the many heroic actions that we perform are all reasons to think that story is Cryptic's interest. The queues we have don't really fit into this in a way that gives proper continuity.
Many moons ago, the first STF's did provide a great story experience that needed a group to do. Those were split up into the respective space and ground encounters though, their story continuity shattered due to this. I don't think players that aren't familiar with how STF's used to be are aware of how the missions are supposed to play out if you were to attempt to line them up chronologically. Even then, I don't think you'd actually be able to do it since some of the content has been smooshed together (cure space comes to mind). The split up of course was because they were bloody long missions. I didn't have heartburn with that, but everyone's not me.
Battle of Korfez seems aright, but might be better suited to something like what we have with the Undine Space Zone in the Solanae Sphere. Plus the bar might be a bit high regarding completing that content for the more story oriented player. Though I'm unsure on where this queue fits into the sequence of events during my time in the Delta Quadrant.
3) What could Cryptic do to change your mind and get you to participate in the queues again?
My mind specifically?
A mission grant telling me to do a queue once I've completed some bit of content so I'm properly informed on when this is supposed to happen for my captain wouldn't be a bad way I suppose. Though I'm already through all the Delta Rising content, so this would have little impact unless I roll another character.
Much of the problem I feel lies in the very horizontal progression that we have. If you're goal in life is to grab as much story as you can, there isn't much need to grind out gear to experience it in the queues since the story content isn't different between difficulties. It's a little different with Battle of Korfez since you won't get far unless you have some semblance of shipbuilding know how (as hopefully your team does).
There's plenty of pick up content that can be found in the various adventure zones such as Defera, Solanae, New Romulus, Nimbus, Nukara, and the Kobali Homeworld. If I'm not in a Foundry Mission, I'm typically in one of those places since it's more dynamic, and far more social, than the queues.
Good thread OP, hope somebody at Cryptic/PWE eats it but I doubt that. Im sure they read all of it and act accordingly though, just not in necessarily in the communities interest. With the changes of Delta Rising they did what they wanted resulting in empty pve queues for us but probably filled wallets for them.
As mainstream PvEer and STO enthusiast for about 3 years I give you my thoughts on the issue at hand.
1) In what way did you reduce or end your participation in queued content?
Queued maps basically make up my only in game activity. It is the only motivating thing to do for me in STO. The reason why I grind. The reason why I pay. I was forced to reduce it by 30% due to the consequences of DR. I also shifted the selected maps a great deal with DR.
2) Can you describe the exact experience that caused you to reach that decision? Anything you can do within the limits of civility to bring home to the reader exactly what that experience was like for a player would be helpful. (No flaming or trolling.)
Reason on the one hand is of course a general lack of participation in team PvE. I notice it throughout the bank. Elite Channels, Fleets, friend list & pug groups all do it less and since I dislike playing alone so do I. On the other hand I also feel a harder time to motivate others to PvE because DR generated a lot of ingame demands you simply cant complete via Queues. As far as my shift in selction of maps is concerned DR forces me to run a risk assessment depending on my teams skill and strength. I dont want to waist my time or the time of others so a lot of maps we ran b4 DR simply cant be run nowadays.
3) What could Cryptic do to change your mind and get you to participate in the queues again?
Get rid of most fails ASP because they dont do any good. They dont provide the least bit of challenge in an elite group and are unbearable for inexperienced/undergrad teams in a way that a match is already decided b4 the players even start the map. In any case they do not provide any form of challenge but rather hinder players of different skill and standing to play with one another.
My suggestion would be to integrate a level of win conditions instead of fails. For example: free all hostages in IGA ->> 1 salvage tech more; Keep at least 1 team member alive: 5000 additional XP; Complete a map in a certain timeframe: 250 more Dil or marks. In such a surrounding we would have a positive encouraging climate where basically everybody could contribute to more or less instead of messing things up for the others.
As sum up, with changes to end game I conclude that the publisher wants to shift the game from team friendly to a more solo play oriented game. The Omega suff reminded me as much of battery farming as it can get. To see so many people do it because they seem to can't do anything else gave me the creeps.
Even though I point out towards the community that I only speak for myself here I still want to make it clear to the DEVs and Publisher that 9 out of 10 players I know (think I get feedback from about 400 accounts in game) are currently unhappy with this game. The reason they are still around is a mixture of loyality towards the product and the communities they are in. Unfortunately everybody has his limits and DR stretched it as far as it can get. I fear more steps in the wrong direction will hurt the game permanently.
Thx for reading
-Connor
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The Omega sTuff reminded me as much of battery farming as it can get. To see so many people do it because they seem to can't do anything else gave me the creeps.
I think you're confusing "doing something" and liking it / being unable to do anything else .
I think you're confusing "doing something" and liking it / being unable to do anything else .
... take argala as a metaphor ...
True of course and everybody should enjoy STO has he or she sees fit.
I made 4 omega upgrades in sum I think to get the picture. If I just compare this "activity" . the time it takes for the crafting system and how monotonous it is by itself with things to play like NTTE or DRE instead I for my part go with the latter. I somehow seem to get the same out of it in less than 10 minutes of play and even having fun in doing so. I simply favour loose housing compared to battery farming but for as long as all chickens are happy in the stables afterwards who am I to disagree.
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I made 4 omega upgrades in sum I think to get the picture.
Well , out maneuvering the need for Dil for upgrades is a big incentive for some (for different reasons) , but once Cryptic announced that they were keeping the ability to craft omega upgrades in-game after the event ends , that's when I think the Ferengi senses started to tingle for some , as that means that the prices for Omega Traces are not going to go down after the event ends .
Just the opposite ... .
... and then there are the folks who have not given up on their Altoholistic ways , and this is a blessing in not so much of a disguise for those players as well ...
Well , out maneuvering the need for Dil for upgrades is a big incentive for some (for different reasons) , but once Cryptic announced that they were keeping the ability to craft omega upgrades in-game after the event ends , that's when I think the Ferengi senses started to tingle for some , as that means that the prices for Omega Traces are not going to go down after the event ends .
Just the opposite ... .
... and then there are the folks who have not given up on their Altoholistic ways , and this is a blessing in not so much of a disguise for those players as well ...
Hehe ok and u are probably right. Just playing this ridiculous omega grind for hours without end would drive me mad. If I compare this experience with beating NWS the first time and how I did it I just wonder if STO is even the right game for me anymore especially if the decisions makers see such activities as its future. Cmon even Tetris is more entertaining.
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Prior to DR, I would run the Borg STFs (mostly space) so I'd get to shoot things, see them blow up, and get a few resources I could use to progress projects, such as fleet starbase projects and the like.
After DR I ran one STF, ISA I believe, had it fail within two minutes, and said 'Chuck Testa' on all STFs.
Nowadays, I queue up when I have time to waste while waiting for a timer to finish. Yes, STFs are now nothing more than a way to waste time ingame.
What can Cryptic do? They can honor their word: return the old pre-DR elite STFs in the Advanced slots as they said they would, THEN slowly adjust them upwards to a challenging level as per player feedback.
STFs used to be fun pre-DR. They are currently time wasters. It's pretty obvious where that happened, so why are we still stuck with things as they are?
STFs used to be fun pre-DR. They are currently time wasters. It's pretty obvious where that happened, so why are we still stuck with things as they are?
I agree on your post entirely. My conclusion is that they simply want players off of those old maps to enjoy newer contend. They did so by basically all means available other than taking them out of game like they did with no win scenario. Just think about it: Harder fails than on a lot of elite maps, 1 hour cd while others have 30 mins, pitiful rewards compared to nearly all elite maps, messed up hit points on critters (sure Bird of preys have more hull than cubes).
A lot of players still run them! Me, my friends and fleet mates still run them despite the bizarre changes they made to its critters and the bugs which were left unattended to for weeks there. Why? Because they are still the most fun in game even though they are only a meagre echo of what they once were. The Devs who originally made them should be saluted while those responsible for a lot of newer contend should be wait I better not finish this sentence.
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I hardly run most space STFs anymore post-DR; I:CA has crappy fail-optionals and is nigh un-puggable. For me, ground is where it's at but Cryptic saw that, and decided to buff ground bosses. No quarter given. None received.
Playing as intended. I swear they might as well log in for me and play what they see fit.
I wonder how hard it would be, at this stage, to introduce and enforce a Tank/DPS/CC trinity into STO.
Just spitballing here but, sometimes I like that ISA almost requires crowd control. I saw almost because with enough DPS you just burn through and Nanite Spheres become something you have to clean up after the transformer is dead. But if your DPS is shaky, then having a TBR or the more popular GW in the hands of a player who knows how to use it is the only way you're going to win ISA.
Don't get me wrong, its implementation is poor. But if they could find a way to keep crowd control builds relevant, and make tanking builds relevant, I'd be happy. I'd even be willing to put up with some insta-fail advanced STF's for it.
1) In what way did you reduce or end your participation in queued content?
Queue are for quick rewards. Before DR, ISE was a quick way to make marks and dilithium with a very high success rate 100%. When ISA happened to be honest, the point of doing ISA went away. Who needs Omega Marks and Trellium K? Now its only purpose is to test builds.
The Good Queues that provide the rewards I need are easy for high end players and impossible to for Causal players. (VCE, VEE, BDCE, CCA, Cure Ground, BHE) So the logical thing is to huddle in the high dps channels and set up private groups.
2) Can you describe the exact experience that caused you to reach that decision? Anything you can do within the limits of civility to bring home to the reader exactly what that experience was like for a player would be helpful. (No flaming or trolling.)
Failing the optional on ISA right after DR start. I was with a good group where we all did around 15k dps and we failed on the timer. (This is before they made it easier and I got my ship stronger. ISA is a cake walk now.) Then I upgraded my ship and got stronger, better to go with groups that talk 2 minutes for ISA than risk it with Pugs.
3) What could Cryptic do to change your mind and get you to participate in the queues again?
Normal= Old Elite Rewards. 50 Marks 1 R and D Material 720 Dilithium Scrap Advanced Elite=VEE Hard. More Rewards. 1440 dilithium and 150 marks. 3-13 materials. This is the best solution. Normal should be for causal players and for Highend players to get some quick dilithium. Elite should be difficult and only attempted by the dps channels. So dps wise. Normal = 7k average player dps. Elite = 25k to 35k average dps. (About 2000 people to 30k dps. around 250 people do 50k dps.) Normal should be a stepping stone to become a high end player. Also cryptic should have 1 or 2 super hard missions like Hive Space Elite whereas the true elite players can judge themselves. Don't even need additional rewards.
I wonder how hard it would be, at this stage, to introduce and enforce a Tank/DPS/CC trinity into STO.
Just spitballing here but, sometimes I like that ISA almost requires crowd control. I saw almost because with enough DPS you just burn through and Nanite Spheres become something you have to clean up after the transformer is dead. But if your DPS is shaky, then having a TBR or the more popular GW in the hands of a player who knows how to use it is the only way you're going to win ISA.
Don't get me wrong, its implementation is poor. But if they could find a way to keep crowd control builds relevant, and make tanking builds relevant, I'd be happy. I'd even be willing to put up with some insta-fail advanced STF's for it.
It is relevant. Except on premades.
Go to HSE, you need a tank. Doing a high performance or record run, you need a healer/support/debuffer.
Its justs not happening in the PuGs since PuGs dont have the necessary communication nor teamwork to take a tank or a support ship. Nor does a PuG have the necessary DPS to take on the slack of the support ships.
You go to a PuG, I commonly see 1k dpser players who doesnt CC. I see healers who dont heal the group but only heal themselves and still do almost 500 dps. You can say it is the PuG community who made the trinity irrelevant. Well probably because a bad player will always be a bad player regardless of the place it is in the trinity.
Go to HSE, you need a tank. Doing a high performance or record run, you need a healer/support/debuffer.
Its justs not happening in the PuGs since PuGs dont have the necessary communication nor teamwork to take a tank or a support ship. Nor does a PuG have the necessary DPS to take on the slack of the support ships.
You go to a PuG, I commonly see 1k dpser players who doesnt CC. I see healers who dont heal the group but only heal themselves and still do almost 500 dps. You can say it is the PuG community who made the trinity irrelevant. Well probably because a bad player will always be a bad player regardless of the place it is in the trinity.
That's somehow even worse. Changing the end-game meta completely with no indication will leave us with an in-game population that's flat out unprepared to do anything but DPS when they get past the first few levels of end game.
Public queue's and pugs should be preparing people for the next level of play, not just in gear but in experience and attitude. That's not happening.
That's somehow even worse. Changing the end-game meta completely with no indication will leave us with an in-game population that's flat out unprepared to do anything but DPS when they get past the first few levels of end game.
Public queue's and pugs should be preparing people for the next level of play, not just in gear but in experience and attitude. That's not happening.
No, I never mentioned any change. I told you what is happening right now.
But you are right, the problem with the current players who is having difficulty in finishing queues is attitude, either trolling or just flat out refuse to improve.
But you are right, the problem with the current players who is having difficulty in finishing queues is attitude, either trolling or just flat out refuse to improve.
Not quite. It's not a refusal to improve, it's a refusal to care. People don't care to improve because THIS IS A GAME. People just wanna have fun. For a lotta people improving means doing a lot of research and math that they don't want to do. The trick is to have a path that encourages improvement gradually, so that players don't really notice it. Example: gear marks. As a player levels up, they get access to higher marks of gear, which do slightly more damage than the gear they have. There's not a lot to think about there, so the player acquires better gear gradually as you go.
Where STO is falling down is that there is no gradual ramp up with traits, rep stuff, weapon mods, etc; it just all gets thrown at a player and frequently a player will just take a quick glance and go with whatever catches their eye.
Trolls can be a problem in certain queues...I've been trolled a couple of times for sure in Undine Infiltration Advanced and Elite. However, assuming that the problems are nothing but trolling (which, granted, the failoptionals DO make it a lot easier to do) or people who "refuse to improve" is the kind of thing that I don't think helps anyone to actually come to any productive solutions.
Though as I mentioned before, I found I actually *had* made substantial progress with my build...but my "attitude" was that in spite of the people I was with, who are really great, the experience of getting barely 2 minutes into an STF, getting kicked out, slapped with a 1-hour cooldown, and given almost nothing...it was not fun. If I have to have a bad STF, I can at least have fun with the old version where the team spends a long time struggling to finish after the blown optionals, and at least gets a reward that is not so insultingly meager. One that is noticeably less, but still actually helpful to whatever you are doing with your marks.
If I have an "attitude," it is that if, win or lose, I am not *having fun,* I don't do it. Even the Omega particle game to me right now is more fun than most queues.
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Honestly, I now run queues only if I have a specific reason too. It's not that they're too hard/frustrating, it's that, under most circumstances, there's no reward that I want to get.
This attitude of mine was not caused by DR. It's been the case for a long time.
Not quite. It's not a refusal to improve, it's a refusal to care. People don't care to improve because THIS IS A GAME. People just wanna have fun. For a lotta people improving means doing a lot of research and math that they don't want to do. The trick is to have a path that encourages improvement gradually, so that players don't really notice it. Example: gear marks. As a player levels up, they get access to higher marks of gear, which do slightly more damage than the gear they have. There's not a lot to think about there, so the player acquires better gear gradually as you go.
Where STO is falling down is that there is no gradual ramp up with traits, rep stuff, weapon mods, etc; it just all gets thrown at a player and frequently a player will just take a quick glance and go with whatever catches their eye.
Fun is a very relative term. PuGs can have fun even if they failed. Trolls have fun by making others fail. Both are common in PuGs.
The issue is the players left in PuGs but want to succeed with a mission but is not sufficiently capable to carry the whole group and refuse to go the private queue runs. These are capable players who can carry their own load but is insufficient to carry everyones load in a PuG. Those who complain about PuGs and failure are usually classified under this scenario.
Haven't ran a Q since I've came back, a few months ago and won't either. I stopped running Qs after the dil rewards were nerfed/taken out. Way too many NGEs in this game since it's inception. To be honest, I had more fun, spent more money, and enjoyed this game under Atari than ever under PW.
Making things harder is not new content. Way too many MMOs are going this route now and I refuse to "buy into" Cryptic's P2W store, even for PVE content which IMHO is why their doing this. They ruined PVP with P2W so their now hitting PVE difficulty as a way to "force" their store. And this comes from a guy who had over 12K zen built up from the 500 per/mo lifer when I did log back in.
Only thing to do now is find another game, again. In fact, I've almost had it up to here with these F2P/P2W so-called AAA games and their developers, their stores, and their development aimed at nothing but spending more than the 15 per/mo that we used to pay, and pay with a smile. My SWG EMU server, which I shelled out over 2K for the server, launches next week.
Cryptic has already seen this feedback on multiple threads - complaining about it more won't do anything. They will not change their minds. The non-optional optionals are here to stay, and your feedback doesn't matter. They don't care that it makes the STF not fun. They don't care that most casual players can't beat them or don't know how. They have already seen all of this feedback and decided that they like things the way they are.
Just stop playing them and stop paying them. That is the only thing that will get their attention at this point. Forum feedback is pointless. If you really want them to implement changes, boycott them by not buying any zen.
Cryptic has already seen this feedback on multiple threads - complaining about it more won't do anything. They will not change their minds. The non-optional optionals are here to stay, and your feedback doesn't matter. They don't care that it makes the STF not fun. They don't care that most casual players can't beat them or don't know how. They have already seen all of this feedback and decided that they like things the way they are.
Just stop playing them and stop paying them. That is the only thing that will get their attention at this point. Forum feedback is pointless. If you really want them to implement changes, boycott them by not buying any zen.
I think we will see a "soft" boycott/protest next month. This morning there were a grand total of 50 people playing in all the queues. This is the lowest I have ever seen. I'm always on at the same time in the morning. I believe March will see that reduced to 10 in CCA, 5 in ISA, 5 cure or Khittomer and maybe 5 in bug hunt.
The reaction to this and to logina in general next month will decide the longevity of the game.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I have already taken both of those actions--stop playing what has been made unfun, and stopping my spending. I have even stopped putting my dilithium into the exchange to minimize how I finance others' habits.
But I consider it fair to give warning as to why I have taken these actions and show what could be done to reverse that decision. Will they change? I don't know this EP well enough yet to say, but I see nothing lost by putting it out there even if in the end (I hope not but I realize the possibility) nothing is gained.
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An organized boycott for the month of March would send a clear message, IMHO. I won't be buying anything - and I used to spend in the hundreds every month.
Do be careful in actually calling for a boycott here in this thread...that will earn it a lock and I am hoping to see more discussion on the reasons people are leaving the queues and what could be done to change their minds.
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I don't run Ques simply because every time I arrive on a map my tray and BOs are messed up and occasionally gear. There simply isn't time to fix it in 30s.
Add to that the frustration for the optionals, getting nothing for my time except a cool down...
well....
The only reason I even bother with these now anyway is they added Ultra Rare crafting materials so yet again I am forced to redo the same stale content I was sick of years ago.
The only redeeming factor was that some of these could be done in 10 minutes or so so it wasn't like the Voth ones which are slow and tedious and plod on and on and on.
Comments
I dont understand why Cryptic loves queues so much. Regardless if they didnt have any of the other issues mentioned, the fact is, there are just way too many queues and not enough of a game population to support them all.
Why ?
After DR hit i ran Infected Space, Cure Space and Khitomer Space and almost fell asleep at the helm waiting for something to die after being faced with the Hitpoint sponges they introduced. (Note it was hitpoint sponges, overall dps of the NPC's were not changed)
This put me off running and trying any more DR revamped content, even though i play in pre-mades for the most part and missions usually are a success, that intial experience when DR went live has left me feeling very reserved about playing certain maps.
DR has all but killed Advanced/Elite pugging, with auto failure if optional is botched, So i don't drop in on Advanced queues like before DR where i could carry a team through most space content. To many people are not ready to jump into these missions with bad ship builds and no team play. Knowing a Infected Space is likely going to fail straight after the initally guards are killed and being removed from the map to me is why bother.
Many times i have attempted to pug Khitomer, i'm going fine killed my cube, spheres and transformer and bang mission fails as someone couldn't stop 2 probes flying through the gate. Or i go on probe duty oneside still kill the cube and spheres and transformer and still probes on the other side get through.
I like the extra Npc's they added in the Borg Space maps but overall my feelings on DR STF's queued events is that they butchered alot of it and unbalanced the missions
1) I stopped playing all queues but Bug Hunt as that's the only one worth the time and effort. I ran Crystalline too before the recent nerf but no longer.
2) Optionals now required means that PUGs are a lot less likely to succeed and are vulnerable to trolls. Not fun at all.
3) Simple: make optionals optional again.
Exactly what I was thinking...especially the part that even if I've gone into an event with an underpowered team, taking a really long time to finish it is "punishment" enough, with the old "failed optional" prize. And yes--in premades with my fleet, it WAS still fun even when we were not performing that great, because of being with friends. Getting ejected after 2 minutes and then slapped with a 1 hr. cooldown and insultingly tiny rewards--NOT cool.
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1) In what way did you reduce or end your participation in queued content?
It wasn't abrupt, but seeing Foundry doors on fly by in space factored into this quite a bit. Foundry accessibility and the abundance of ad-hoc group content has rendered the queues obsolete and serve more as tools for benchmarking your performance. Well, for those that are still chasing ever higher numbers in an effort to blap pixels as quickly as possible.
2) Can you describe the exact experience that caused you to reach that decision? Anything you can do within the limits of civility to bring home to the reader exactly what that experience was like for a player would be helpful. (No flaming or trolling.)
Not sure how to answer this in relation to the first question and answer, but I'll give it a go.
STO development has made, by all outward appearances, story presentation as it's purpose in life. Story based expansions, VO's from Star Trek alum, remastered missions, great cinematics, rich characters for us to interact with, and the many heroic actions that we perform are all reasons to think that story is Cryptic's interest. The queues we have don't really fit into this in a way that gives proper continuity.
Many moons ago, the first STF's did provide a great story experience that needed a group to do. Those were split up into the respective space and ground encounters though, their story continuity shattered due to this. I don't think players that aren't familiar with how STF's used to be are aware of how the missions are supposed to play out if you were to attempt to line them up chronologically. Even then, I don't think you'd actually be able to do it since some of the content has been smooshed together (cure space comes to mind). The split up of course was because they were bloody long missions. I didn't have heartburn with that, but everyone's not me.
Battle of Korfez seems aright, but might be better suited to something like what we have with the Undine Space Zone in the Solanae Sphere. Plus the bar might be a bit high regarding completing that content for the more story oriented player. Though I'm unsure on where this queue fits into the sequence of events during my time in the Delta Quadrant.
3) What could Cryptic do to change your mind and get you to participate in the queues again?
My mind specifically?
A mission grant telling me to do a queue once I've completed some bit of content so I'm properly informed on when this is supposed to happen for my captain wouldn't be a bad way I suppose. Though I'm already through all the Delta Rising content, so this would have little impact unless I roll another character.
Much of the problem I feel lies in the very horizontal progression that we have. If you're goal in life is to grab as much story as you can, there isn't much need to grind out gear to experience it in the queues since the story content isn't different between difficulties. It's a little different with Battle of Korfez since you won't get far unless you have some semblance of shipbuilding know how (as hopefully your team does).
There's plenty of pick up content that can be found in the various adventure zones such as Defera, Solanae, New Romulus, Nimbus, Nukara, and the Kobali Homeworld. If I'm not in a Foundry Mission, I'm typically in one of those places since it's more dynamic, and far more social, than the queues.
As mainstream PvEer and STO enthusiast for about 3 years I give you my thoughts on the issue at hand.
1) In what way did you reduce or end your participation in queued content?
Queued maps basically make up my only in game activity. It is the only motivating thing to do for me in STO. The reason why I grind. The reason why I pay. I was forced to reduce it by 30% due to the consequences of DR. I also shifted the selected maps a great deal with DR.
2) Can you describe the exact experience that caused you to reach that decision? Anything you can do within the limits of civility to bring home to the reader exactly what that experience was like for a player would be helpful. (No flaming or trolling.)
Reason on the one hand is of course a general lack of participation in team PvE. I notice it throughout the bank. Elite Channels, Fleets, friend list & pug groups all do it less and since I dislike playing alone so do I. On the other hand I also feel a harder time to motivate others to PvE because DR generated a lot of ingame demands you simply cant complete via Queues. As far as my shift in selction of maps is concerned DR forces me to run a risk assessment depending on my teams skill and strength. I dont want to waist my time or the time of others so a lot of maps we ran b4 DR simply cant be run nowadays.
3) What could Cryptic do to change your mind and get you to participate in the queues again?
Get rid of most fails ASP because they dont do any good. They dont provide the least bit of challenge in an elite group and are unbearable for inexperienced/undergrad teams in a way that a match is already decided b4 the players even start the map. In any case they do not provide any form of challenge but rather hinder players of different skill and standing to play with one another.
My suggestion would be to integrate a level of win conditions instead of fails. For example: free all hostages in IGA ->> 1 salvage tech more; Keep at least 1 team member alive: 5000 additional XP; Complete a map in a certain timeframe: 250 more Dil or marks. In such a surrounding we would have a positive encouraging climate where basically everybody could contribute to more or less instead of messing things up for the others.
As sum up, with changes to end game I conclude that the publisher wants to shift the game from team friendly to a more solo play oriented game. The Omega suff reminded me as much of battery farming as it can get. To see so many people do it because they seem to can't do anything else gave me the creeps.
Even though I point out towards the community that I only speak for myself here I still want to make it clear to the DEVs and Publisher that 9 out of 10 players I know (think I get feedback from about 400 accounts in game) are currently unhappy with this game. The reason they are still around is a mixture of loyality towards the product and the communities they are in. Unfortunately everybody has his limits and DR stretched it as far as it can get. I fear more steps in the wrong direction will hurt the game permanently.
Thx for reading
-Connor
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I think you're confusing "doing something" and liking it / being unable to do anything else .
... take argala as a metaphor ...
True of course and everybody should enjoy STO has he or she sees fit.
I made 4 omega upgrades in sum I think to get the picture. If I just compare this "activity" . the time it takes for the crafting system and how monotonous it is by itself with things to play like NTTE or DRE instead I for my part go with the latter. I somehow seem to get the same out of it in less than 10 minutes of play and even having fun in doing so. I simply favour loose housing compared to battery farming but for as long as all chickens are happy in the stables afterwards who am I to disagree.
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Well , out maneuvering the need for Dil for upgrades is a big incentive for some (for different reasons) , but once Cryptic announced that they were keeping the ability to craft omega upgrades in-game after the event ends , that's when I think the Ferengi senses started to tingle for some , as that means that the prices for Omega Traces are not going to go down after the event ends .
Just the opposite ... .
... and then there are the folks who have not given up on their Altoholistic ways , and this is a blessing in not so much of a disguise for those players as well ...
Hehe ok and u are probably right. Just playing this ridiculous omega grind for hours without end would drive me mad. If I compare this experience with beating NWS the first time and how I did it I just wonder if STO is even the right game for me anymore especially if the decisions makers see such activities as its future. Cmon even Tetris is more entertaining.
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After DR I ran one STF, ISA I believe, had it fail within two minutes, and said 'Chuck Testa' on all STFs.
Nowadays, I queue up when I have time to waste while waiting for a timer to finish. Yes, STFs are now nothing more than a way to waste time ingame.
What can Cryptic do? They can honor their word: return the old pre-DR elite STFs in the Advanced slots as they said they would, THEN slowly adjust them upwards to a challenging level as per player feedback.
STFs used to be fun pre-DR. They are currently time wasters. It's pretty obvious where that happened, so why are we still stuck with things as they are?
I agree on your post entirely. My conclusion is that they simply want players off of those old maps to enjoy newer contend. They did so by basically all means available other than taking them out of game like they did with no win scenario. Just think about it: Harder fails than on a lot of elite maps, 1 hour cd while others have 30 mins, pitiful rewards compared to nearly all elite maps, messed up hit points on critters (sure Bird of preys have more hull than cubes).
A lot of players still run them! Me, my friends and fleet mates still run them despite the bizarre changes they made to its critters and the bugs which were left unattended to for weeks there. Why? Because they are still the most fun in game even though they are only a meagre echo of what they once were. The Devs who originally made them should be saluted while those responsible for a lot of newer contend should be wait I better not finish this sentence.
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Playing as intended. I swear they might as well log in for me and play what they see fit.
Just spitballing here but, sometimes I like that ISA almost requires crowd control. I saw almost because with enough DPS you just burn through and Nanite Spheres become something you have to clean up after the transformer is dead. But if your DPS is shaky, then having a TBR or the more popular GW in the hands of a player who knows how to use it is the only way you're going to win ISA.
Don't get me wrong, its implementation is poor. But if they could find a way to keep crowd control builds relevant, and make tanking builds relevant, I'd be happy. I'd even be willing to put up with some insta-fail advanced STF's for it.
Queue are for quick rewards. Before DR, ISE was a quick way to make marks and dilithium with a very high success rate 100%. When ISA happened to be honest, the point of doing ISA went away. Who needs Omega Marks and Trellium K? Now its only purpose is to test builds.
The Good Queues that provide the rewards I need are easy for high end players and impossible to for Causal players. (VCE, VEE, BDCE, CCA, Cure Ground, BHE) So the logical thing is to huddle in the high dps channels and set up private groups.
2) Can you describe the exact experience that caused you to reach that decision? Anything you can do within the limits of civility to bring home to the reader exactly what that experience was like for a player would be helpful. (No flaming or trolling.)
Failing the optional on ISA right after DR start. I was with a good group where we all did around 15k dps and we failed on the timer. (This is before they made it easier and I got my ship stronger. ISA is a cake walk now.) Then I upgraded my ship and got stronger, better to go with groups that talk 2 minutes for ISA than risk it with Pugs.
3) What could Cryptic do to change your mind and get you to participate in the queues again?
Normal= Old Elite Rewards. 50 Marks 1 R and D Material 720 Dilithium Scrap Advanced Elite=VEE Hard. More Rewards. 1440 dilithium and 150 marks. 3-13 materials. This is the best solution. Normal should be for causal players and for Highend players to get some quick dilithium. Elite should be difficult and only attempted by the dps channels. So dps wise. Normal = 7k average player dps. Elite = 25k to 35k average dps. (About 2000 people to 30k dps. around 250 people do 50k dps.) Normal should be a stepping stone to become a high end player. Also cryptic should have 1 or 2 super hard missions like Hive Space Elite whereas the true elite players can judge themselves. Don't even need additional rewards.
It is relevant. Except on premades.
Go to HSE, you need a tank. Doing a high performance or record run, you need a healer/support/debuffer.
Its justs not happening in the PuGs since PuGs dont have the necessary communication nor teamwork to take a tank or a support ship. Nor does a PuG have the necessary DPS to take on the slack of the support ships.
You go to a PuG, I commonly see 1k dpser players who doesnt CC. I see healers who dont heal the group but only heal themselves and still do almost 500 dps. You can say it is the PuG community who made the trinity irrelevant. Well probably because a bad player will always be a bad player regardless of the place it is in the trinity.
That's somehow even worse. Changing the end-game meta completely with no indication will leave us with an in-game population that's flat out unprepared to do anything but DPS when they get past the first few levels of end game.
Public queue's and pugs should be preparing people for the next level of play, not just in gear but in experience and attitude. That's not happening.
No, I never mentioned any change. I told you what is happening right now.
But you are right, the problem with the current players who is having difficulty in finishing queues is attitude, either trolling or just flat out refuse to improve.
Not quite. It's not a refusal to improve, it's a refusal to care. People don't care to improve because THIS IS A GAME. People just wanna have fun. For a lotta people improving means doing a lot of research and math that they don't want to do. The trick is to have a path that encourages improvement gradually, so that players don't really notice it. Example: gear marks. As a player levels up, they get access to higher marks of gear, which do slightly more damage than the gear they have. There's not a lot to think about there, so the player acquires better gear gradually as you go.
Where STO is falling down is that there is no gradual ramp up with traits, rep stuff, weapon mods, etc; it just all gets thrown at a player and frequently a player will just take a quick glance and go with whatever catches their eye.
Though as I mentioned before, I found I actually *had* made substantial progress with my build...but my "attitude" was that in spite of the people I was with, who are really great, the experience of getting barely 2 minutes into an STF, getting kicked out, slapped with a 1-hour cooldown, and given almost nothing...it was not fun. If I have to have a bad STF, I can at least have fun with the old version where the team spends a long time struggling to finish after the blown optionals, and at least gets a reward that is not so insultingly meager. One that is noticeably less, but still actually helpful to whatever you are doing with your marks.
If I have an "attitude," it is that if, win or lose, I am not *having fun,* I don't do it. Even the Omega particle game to me right now is more fun than most queues.
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This attitude of mine was not caused by DR. It's been the case for a long time.
My character Tsin'xing
Fun is a very relative term. PuGs can have fun even if they failed. Trolls have fun by making others fail. Both are common in PuGs.
The issue is the players left in PuGs but want to succeed with a mission but is not sufficiently capable to carry the whole group and refuse to go the private queue runs. These are capable players who can carry their own load but is insufficient to carry everyones load in a PuG. Those who complain about PuGs and failure are usually classified under this scenario.
Making things harder is not new content. Way too many MMOs are going this route now and I refuse to "buy into" Cryptic's P2W store, even for PVE content which IMHO is why their doing this. They ruined PVP with P2W so their now hitting PVE difficulty as a way to "force" their store. And this comes from a guy who had over 12K zen built up from the 500 per/mo lifer when I did log back in.
Only thing to do now is find another game, again. In fact, I've almost had it up to here with these F2P/P2W so-called AAA games and their developers, their stores, and their development aimed at nothing but spending more than the 15 per/mo that we used to pay, and pay with a smile. My SWG EMU server, which I shelled out over 2K for the server, launches next week.
Just stop playing them and stop paying them. That is the only thing that will get their attention at this point. Forum feedback is pointless. If you really want them to implement changes, boycott them by not buying any zen.
I think we will see a "soft" boycott/protest next month. This morning there were a grand total of 50 people playing in all the queues. This is the lowest I have ever seen. I'm always on at the same time in the morning. I believe March will see that reduced to 10 in CCA, 5 in ISA, 5 cure or Khittomer and maybe 5 in bug hunt.
The reaction to this and to logina in general next month will decide the longevity of the game.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
But I consider it fair to give warning as to why I have taken these actions and show what could be done to reverse that decision. Will they change? I don't know this EP well enough yet to say, but I see nothing lost by putting it out there even if in the end (I hope not but I realize the possibility) nothing is gained.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Add to that the frustration for the optionals, getting nothing for my time except a cool down...
well....
The only reason I even bother with these now anyway is they added Ultra Rare crafting materials so yet again I am forced to redo the same stale content I was sick of years ago.
The only redeeming factor was that some of these could be done in 10 minutes or so so it wasn't like the Voth ones which are slow and tedious and plod on and on and on.