Lets see here, rant, rant, I want free stuff, rant, rant.
Don't need me, he is already off the deep end.
Lol that's funny, still isn't a rant. When making a point, you first state it, then add supporting facts or theories. And for what? the fourth time: I haven't asked for anything free, I'm just pointing out that what THEY say is free is just a cover to push people into buying ship slots or we have go give up the "free gift" that point made clear by the fact that they took away the option to buy a boxed extra, why else would they do that? A rant would be someone just going off senselessly, loosing their cool, blowing off steam.
While I agree that the monetizing is becoming more and more invasive, what exactly do you expect? Micro transactions are needed to keep the game going.
There's a huge difference between selling DLC and the grotesque amount of naked cash-grab that PWE has been doing lately. It almost makes one wonder if the company is going to go belly-up soon and they're trying to get their mitts on as much moola as possible before the whole racket goes ker-plooey!
IMO, I'd hold off on buying anything from PWE for right now. Something about the way they're doing things since last Fall is giving off a "Spidey Sense" in me.
Lol that's funny, still isn't a rant. When making a point, you first state it, then add supporting facts or theories. And for what? the fourth time: I haven't asked for anything free, I'm just pointing out that what THEY say is free is just a cover to push people into buying ship slots or we have go give up the "free gift" that point made clear by the fact that they took away the option to buy a boxed extra, why else would they do that? A rant would be someone just going off senselessly, loosing their cool, blowing off steam.
Which is what you're doing. I mean seriously.... calling them "heartless" for giving people the Samsar? yeah.... angry rant.
In the last year I noticed a lot of stuff costing Dil. Its all about making $ for the company. But look what they done lately. They added more actors/actress to do VOs and being rendered into the game. That is not cheap as they are not doing it for free. Before you didn't have this kind of star power into the game. This is just 1 example of what they doing with the money earned from us.
About the pricing of stuff. Just like anything. If you want it, pay up. If not, then don't buy it. Your the buyer so its always your choice. Some will have it, some won't. That is just part of life.
Even with the Dil expenses on stuff like crafting, upgrades. Some of it does cost, but you don't have to pay on some. As all you have to do is wait it out to count down. Some of the stuff that does cost was no different than the Dil store items they had. I used to buy a lot from that vendor for my gear. Cause I refused to pay over priced stuff on the exchange. Where other players would price gouge you. So in reality they are no different than the company making you cough up your resources.
Do I really see them taking away from us? Not really. The crafting/upgrading has done wonders on my characters. As it helped them upgrade gear and get gear I wanted. By bypassing the exchange with greedy players. Plus it costed less. This is just 1 example.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
While I agree that the monetizing is becoming more and more invasive, what exactly do you expect? Micro transactions are needed to keep the game going.
PWE/Cryptic is only going to get as much money from you as you want to give them.
Except these are no longer micro transactions. $120 or there abouts seems more like a macro transaction. They are far beyond the $5 horse armor skins of other games. Gotta get back to the dilithium grind to pay for some stuff.
Some of the folks playing this game really, seriously need to learn some meditation techniques and calm the heck down. You're going to rant yourself into an early grave, you are.
The OP pack is overpriced? Um, that's only the appearance of it...
The cost of each ship contained in that pack separately? 27000 Zen (3000 for nine ships), and that's only ships, so the final figure is considerably closer to 30000. With the pack, you can all get all nine ships and more for around half the price of purchasing all of them one-by-one
^Applies to the Legacy of Romulus packs as well overall, cost-wise
i need to stop you there.
Everything in the zen store is outrageously priced to begin with. $30 is just ridiculous for any ship. So saying a bit of money in a bundle isn't really here or there. Everything is overpriced. Period.
How many more ways are you going to invent to take things from us or squeeze us for money?
"Travelling to the Regulus Sector Block will take 4 hours. 18000 Dilithium to finish now." :P
On a serious note, I don't think that posting rage topics will have any effect as most of the developers have stopped reading the forums, because of topics like these. I do agree with you on most part of what you've written though. It's just become pointless to rage on the forums. Probably a moderator will drop by soon and lock this thread trough the floor.
Everything in the zen store is outrageously priced to begin with. $30 is just ridiculous for any ship. So saying a bit of money in a bundle isn't really here or there. Everything is overpriced. Period.
The stuff in the store is value to what a person is willing pay. They do have sales, so its better to wait for that. There is stuff I would buy, but I won't. So its not a big deal for me. It goes to a want vs a need. So you can enjoy your time on the game.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
How many ships do you have in your slots that you don't use?
Go to the ship selector and find out.
I am sure when you go there you will find ships that you haven't used in ages.
As for limited slots, well, you are playing for free. Ships require a lot of information movement, hull, turn rate, defense capaibilty, shields, inertia, the equipment required, custom paint job and so on.
Options, get dilithium. right now. 16,700 dil is equivalent to around 100 zen and 2 new ship slots are 500 zen.
83,500 Dilithium. Just over 10 days worth of dilithium spread over all your characters. Spend any real time in the Voth Battlezone and you've hit max Dil. for the day. Especially if you can help at the end boss stage.
The OP might not be aware of this but there is no requirement for you to buy the mega command ship pack. Plus they are giving you free ships? Where do you get off?
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Wow you're obviously paying attention here. I've made zero demands for more free anything. There's nothing wrong with pointing out the fact that they've taken alot away while adding more dil grind, it's what this forum section is designed for. Discussion of gameplay, and I'm complaining that I have no more ships that can be deleted and reclaimed, and I should point out that was only one part of the complaint. It's the fact that they give us a ship knowing it will force players to dump old free ships or purchased one's OR we have to buy more ship slots. If they genuinely wanted to give something to the players as a thank you, then why can't it be reclaimed? why doesn't it come with a free ship slot, why did they take away the option to buy another in the boxed form?
Wow, you weren't kidding. The knights never cease to astonish me. Makes for good forum grinding, though.
It's not about being a White Knight. It's about being logical. No one is blindly defending Cryptic, just providing good solid counterpoints to the OP, who in my opinion, is not being very realistic in his rant. Just because new toys came out doesn't make what you got obsolete. I bought the Delta Pack and I am still happy with it, despite the release of the Command Ships. New ships were always expected and that is not a cause to throw a tantrum.
If the OP is so concerned about the future of the game, then he needs to realize Cryptic has to generate profits or the servers go dark.
Then you attach boff training to dilithium. Really? Was that necessary? You get us all excited to find out we're finally getting a proper training system to where we don't have to give expensive/rare boffs to other players for training and hope we get them back, then you attach that to dilithium (albeit a small amount) like a slap in the face.
You can take it as a slap in the face, but it is Cryptic's prerogative to change the nature of Free to play in this game. It is their prerogative to develop mechanisms in game to compel you to spend money on the game.
I honestly see no error on Crytpic's part on trying to increase their earnings on the game, or trying to maintain cash coming in. When you have players PROUDLY displaying their ability to not paying a dime in this game, players harassing other players when they win a lockbox ship, and others who have five or six accounts running bots to collect as many Omega molecules so they can bypass the dilithium requirement for upgrading, I have no sympathy when Cryptic changes things back in their favor.
Cryptic is not UNICEF the Red Cross, or the Salvation Army.
You can brand me the King of White knights, you all can keep sending me hate mail through the forums, but I choose to enjoy the game, I choose to get zen when I want to. When you start a thread calling for closing the gameand firing Devs because it isn't the way YOU want the game to be, I call BS.
I didn't think the OP had a point, but then returning from my son's scout meeting tonight two red Ferraris were parked in my driveway. Curious I walked up to look to see who it was. When I bent over to look in the first one someone hit me over the head with what felt like a bag of leeks. While I was on the ground someone else started kicking me and cursing in a voice that sounded a lot like that lizard thing from the Geico ads.
This went on for a few moments, as I was about to lose consciousness I heard the leek person (who I'm pretty sure was female and was laughing at the time) say, "You haven't spent enough Zen." Then they took my wallet. The last thing I heard before I blacked out was the screech of rubber as the pair of $250,000 sport cars raced away.
On the plus side I finally got this monkey off my back. I haven't logged in in a week, I have no desire to get the anniversary ship, omega particles for tech or play the dilithium weekend.
Not even sure I'm gonna keep this on my harddrive. They killed what desire I had left to play.
I'm reminded of that Star Wars quote: "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
The more you squeeze us for money, the more we will slip through your fingers.
Then you attach boff training to dilithium. Really? Was that necessary? You get us all excited to find out we're finally getting a proper training system to where we don't have to give expensive/rare boffs to other players for training and hope we get them back, then you attach that to dilithium (albeit a small amount) like a slap in the face.
Agreed. I really did not like having my Gravity Well 3 taken away and forced to spend Dil on crafting just to get it back.
Then you take away our rep system mark dil bonuses. Didn't give anyone forewarning ahead of time, even tho your posts about it say you're well aware that people have been saving marks and items to turn in for a long time, you just pulled it right out from under us, and even screwed up the initial details by leaving us to believe we'd still receive the normal bonuses that we have in the past.
Another agreed. I had a lot of marks saved up because after you've reached Level 5 and made everything you wanted from that Reputation, what else are marks good for?
Then you dump more "Free ships" on us, because we get excited and enjoy some new material only this time we're not allowed to claim a 2nd box so we can trash the first ship to save a ship slot and keep a boxed version.
PWE wants us to shell out for extra ship slots. Nope. Not me. Not gonna happen, PWE.
You can take it as a slap in the face, but it is Cryptic's prerogative to change the nature of Free to play in this game. It is their prerogative to develop mechanisms in game to compel you to spend money on the game.
Well guess what? To paraphrase Princess Leia, the more they tighten their grip, the more players will slip through their fingers. (Edit: I wrote that before I saw the post by uryenserellont. LOL)
I'm glad I didn't sink $120 for the Delta pack. IMO, T6 ships are inferior to T5U ones anyway. All they're good for is to grind a unique Tier 5 starship trait and then it's back to your old pre-DR ship.
Every company deserves to make some money, but they WAY they are trying to make their money has been very disrespectful towards the players and in some cases it's been downright extortionist (like having to spend Dil to craft manuals to get back the BOFF skills your crew already had just the day before).
A business provides a service to it's player base and gets rewarded for it with purchases. Here however it seems that it's becoming like Fernginar, where it costs three strips of Latinum to sit in a chair and one strip to stand.
I was beginning to wonder when these threads would return.
Seriously if you're still playing you're part of the problem not the solution. Get off this game and vote with your wallet. They aren't listening to the forums they will listen to your missing cash however and your missing game time! Once enough people do this this game will change!
The OP seems to have the same issues we see in the Forum time, and time again. :rolleyes:
Some folks seem to have no clue to what a buisness is. They offer a service that is supposed
to provide enjoyment for thier customers. This comes at a price the leaders of the buisness
calculate that the customers will bear. Thats it !
If you feel you can no longer bear it, then you have a decision to make. You're the only one
who can make it. Your post paints the picture of a very unhappy customer. You know what
you need to do, for your own sake, if nothing else.
Us "White Knights" seem to be relatively happy customers, to the chagrin of some. Sorry, for
now, I'll be enjoying the absolutley "Free" STO experience. I wish you could join me.
I was beginning to wonder when these threads would return.
Seriously if you're still playing you're part of the problem not the solution. Get off this game and vote with your wallet. They aren't listening to the forums they will listen to your missing cash however and your missing game time! Once enough people do this this game will change!
I *AM* voting with my wallet! I haven't spent one single penny buying Zen in over a year. Anything I buy in the game now is from grinding (despite Cryptic's attempt to TRIBBLE people from even doing that, such as no longer allowing +50% Dil from Rep Mark turn-ins during the last week).
The OP seems to have the same issues we see in the Forum time, and time again. :rolleyes:
Some folks seem to have no clue to what a buisness is. They offer a service that is supposed
to provide enjoyment for thier customers. This comes at a price the leaders of the buisness
calculate that the customers will bear. Thats it !
If you feel you can no longer bear it, then you have a decision to make. You're the only one
who can make it. Your post paints the picture of a very unhappy customer. You know what
you need to do, for your own sake, if nothing else.
Us "White Knights" seem to be relatively happy customers, to the chagrin of some. Sorry, for
now, I'll be enjoying the absolutley "Free" STO experience. I wish you could join me.
Except these are no longer micro transactions. $120 or there abouts seems more like a macro transaction. They are far beyond the $5 horse armor skins of other games. Gotta get back to the dilithium grind to pay for some stuff.
It never felt like "micro-transactions" to me, even with it was just a 20 $ ship or whatever.
But the game is F2P. That means people can get access to pretty much everything the game (but when it comes to items, not everythnig at the same time) without ever paying anything.
But someone has to pay for the game. And that's the few that are willing to spend 120 $ on a bunch of ships.
Is it fair?
I don't know. The alternative model to F2P has always been subscription based games. But the subscription always provided a barrier to entry - people had to be really certain they wanted to play the game to spend a monthly fee. And if they didn't - the game was emptier for it. ANd that meant people that were spending money might consider that there isn't enough "MM" in their "MMO", and stop subscribing, too. And so the game dies. The few people that really wanted to play the game could do nothing about it - they could only keep subscribing and hope that the money that would come out ofit would suffice to keep the game running and content being made.
Now people can support a game as much as they want - that means they can spend more than just a subscription. And people that don't care that much that they would spend money on it (or don't have that much) can still play the game, and be part of the "MM" that makes the MMO. The game doesn't have to fear of being too empty of players so that more players leave.
But of course - someone still has to pay for the game. And "Micro" is apparently not doing it so well...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Every company deserves to make some money, but they WAY they are trying to make their money has been very disrespectful towards the players and in some cases it's been downright extortionist (like having to spend Dil to craft manuals to get back the BOFF skills your crew already had just the day before).
^^ Exactly this!
In a recent podcast, Geko said he wants us to spend RL money on Dilithium, to keep the lights on. Except, people forget, the lights were *already* on, prior to DR and its tenfold monetization of everything.
Comments
Combative and hostile response? check
Trolling when someone's just discussing the topic? Check.
I'm glad you can at least point out these issues have been discussed before. Can't understand why they'd be less important now tho.
Reporting for duty o7.
Lets see here, rant, rant, I want free stuff, rant, rant.
Don't need me, he is already off the deep end.
Lol that's funny, still isn't a rant. When making a point, you first state it, then add supporting facts or theories. And for what? the fourth time: I haven't asked for anything free, I'm just pointing out that what THEY say is free is just a cover to push people into buying ship slots or we have go give up the "free gift" that point made clear by the fact that they took away the option to buy a boxed extra, why else would they do that? A rant would be someone just going off senselessly, loosing their cool, blowing off steam.
There's a huge difference between selling DLC and the grotesque amount of naked cash-grab that PWE has been doing lately. It almost makes one wonder if the company is going to go belly-up soon and they're trying to get their mitts on as much moola as possible before the whole racket goes ker-plooey!
IMO, I'd hold off on buying anything from PWE for right now. Something about the way they're doing things since last Fall is giving off a "Spidey Sense" in me.
My character Tsin'xing
About the pricing of stuff. Just like anything. If you want it, pay up. If not, then don't buy it. Your the buyer so its always your choice. Some will have it, some won't. That is just part of life.
Even with the Dil expenses on stuff like crafting, upgrades. Some of it does cost, but you don't have to pay on some. As all you have to do is wait it out to count down. Some of the stuff that does cost was no different than the Dil store items they had. I used to buy a lot from that vendor for my gear. Cause I refused to pay over priced stuff on the exchange. Where other players would price gouge you. So in reality they are no different than the company making you cough up your resources.
Do I really see them taking away from us? Not really. The crafting/upgrading has done wonders on my characters. As it helped them upgrade gear and get gear I wanted. By bypassing the exchange with greedy players. Plus it costed less. This is just 1 example.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Except these are no longer micro transactions. $120 or there abouts seems more like a macro transaction. They are far beyond the $5 horse armor skins of other games. Gotta get back to the dilithium grind to pay for some stuff.
i need to stop you there.
Everything in the zen store is outrageously priced to begin with. $30 is just ridiculous for any ship. So saying a bit of money in a bundle isn't really here or there. Everything is overpriced. Period.
"Travelling to the Regulus Sector Block will take 4 hours. 18000 Dilithium to finish now." :P
On a serious note, I don't think that posting rage topics will have any effect as most of the developers have stopped reading the forums, because of topics like these. I do agree with you on most part of what you've written though. It's just become pointless to rage on the forums. Probably a moderator will drop by soon and lock this thread trough the floor.
The stuff in the store is value to what a person is willing pay. They do have sales, so its better to wait for that. There is stuff I would buy, but I won't. So its not a big deal for me. It goes to a want vs a need. So you can enjoy your time on the game.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Go to the ship selector and find out.
I am sure when you go there you will find ships that you haven't used in ages.
As for limited slots, well, you are playing for free. Ships require a lot of information movement, hull, turn rate, defense capaibilty, shields, inertia, the equipment required, custom paint job and so on.
Options, get dilithium. right now. 16,700 dil is equivalent to around 100 zen and 2 new ship slots are 500 zen.
83,500 Dilithium. Just over 10 days worth of dilithium spread over all your characters. Spend any real time in the Voth Battlezone and you've hit max Dil. for the day. Especially if you can help at the end boss stage.
It's hardly any effort, really.
Wow, you weren't kidding. The knights never cease to astonish me. Makes for good forum grinding, though.
Ignore the white knight my friend.
It's not about being a White Knight. It's about being logical. No one is blindly defending Cryptic, just providing good solid counterpoints to the OP, who in my opinion, is not being very realistic in his rant. Just because new toys came out doesn't make what you got obsolete. I bought the Delta Pack and I am still happy with it, despite the release of the Command Ships. New ships were always expected and that is not a cause to throw a tantrum.
If the OP is so concerned about the future of the game, then he needs to realize Cryptic has to generate profits or the servers go dark.
You can take it as a slap in the face, but it is Cryptic's prerogative to change the nature of Free to play in this game. It is their prerogative to develop mechanisms in game to compel you to spend money on the game.
I honestly see no error on Crytpic's part on trying to increase their earnings on the game, or trying to maintain cash coming in. When you have players PROUDLY displaying their ability to not paying a dime in this game, players harassing other players when they win a lockbox ship, and others who have five or six accounts running bots to collect as many Omega molecules so they can bypass the dilithium requirement for upgrading, I have no sympathy when Cryptic changes things back in their favor.
Cryptic is not UNICEF the Red Cross, or the Salvation Army.
You can brand me the King of White knights, you all can keep sending me hate mail through the forums, but I choose to enjoy the game, I choose to get zen when I want to. When you start a thread calling for closing the gameand firing Devs because it isn't the way YOU want the game to be, I call BS.
This went on for a few moments, as I was about to lose consciousness I heard the leek person (who I'm pretty sure was female and was laughing at the time) say, "You haven't spent enough Zen." Then they took my wallet. The last thing I heard before I blacked out was the screech of rubber as the pair of $250,000 sport cars raced away.
Not even sure I'm gonna keep this on my harddrive. They killed what desire I had left to play.
I'm reminded of that Star Wars quote: "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
The more you squeeze us for money, the more we will slip through your fingers.
So if you aren't going to address it, why bother (not) posting about it?
Agreed. I really did not like having my Gravity Well 3 taken away and forced to spend Dil on crafting just to get it back.
Another agreed. I had a lot of marks saved up because after you've reached Level 5 and made everything you wanted from that Reputation, what else are marks good for?
PWE wants us to shell out for extra ship slots. Nope. Not me. Not gonna happen, PWE.
Well guess what? To paraphrase Princess Leia, the more they tighten their grip, the more players will slip through their fingers. (Edit: I wrote that before I saw the post by uryenserellont. LOL)
I'm glad I didn't sink $120 for the Delta pack. IMO, T6 ships are inferior to T5U ones anyway. All they're good for is to grind a unique Tier 5 starship trait and then it's back to your old pre-DR ship.
Every company deserves to make some money, but they WAY they are trying to make their money has been very disrespectful towards the players and in some cases it's been downright extortionist (like having to spend Dil to craft manuals to get back the BOFF skills your crew already had just the day before).
A business provides a service to it's player base and gets rewarded for it with purchases. Here however it seems that it's becoming like Fernginar, where it costs three strips of Latinum to sit in a chair and one strip to stand.
Seriously if you're still playing you're part of the problem not the solution. Get off this game and vote with your wallet. They aren't listening to the forums they will listen to your missing cash however and your missing game time! Once enough people do this this game will change!
Some folks seem to have no clue to what a buisness is. They offer a service that is supposed
to provide enjoyment for thier customers. This comes at a price the leaders of the buisness
calculate that the customers will bear. Thats it !
If you feel you can no longer bear it, then you have a decision to make. You're the only one
who can make it. Your post paints the picture of a very unhappy customer. You know what
you need to do, for your own sake, if nothing else.
Us "White Knights" seem to be relatively happy customers, to the chagrin of some. Sorry, for
now, I'll be enjoying the absolutley "Free" STO experience. I wish you could join me.
BCW.
I *AM* voting with my wallet! I haven't spent one single penny buying Zen in over a year. Anything I buy in the game now is from grinding (despite Cryptic's attempt to TRIBBLE people from even doing that, such as no longer allowing +50% Dil from Rep Mark turn-ins during the last week).
Geko still won't go to bed with you.
It never felt like "micro-transactions" to me, even with it was just a 20 $ ship or whatever.
But the game is F2P. That means people can get access to pretty much everything the game (but when it comes to items, not everythnig at the same time) without ever paying anything.
But someone has to pay for the game. And that's the few that are willing to spend 120 $ on a bunch of ships.
Is it fair?
I don't know. The alternative model to F2P has always been subscription based games. But the subscription always provided a barrier to entry - people had to be really certain they wanted to play the game to spend a monthly fee. And if they didn't - the game was emptier for it. ANd that meant people that were spending money might consider that there isn't enough "MM" in their "MMO", and stop subscribing, too. And so the game dies. The few people that really wanted to play the game could do nothing about it - they could only keep subscribing and hope that the money that would come out ofit would suffice to keep the game running and content being made.
Now people can support a game as much as they want - that means they can spend more than just a subscription. And people that don't care that much that they would spend money on it (or don't have that much) can still play the game, and be part of the "MM" that makes the MMO. The game doesn't have to fear of being too empty of players so that more players leave.
But of course - someone still has to pay for the game. And "Micro" is apparently not doing it so well...
^^ Exactly this!
In a recent podcast, Geko said he wants us to spend RL money on Dilithium, to keep the lights on. Except, people forget, the lights were *already* on, prior to DR and its tenfold monetization of everything.
Nobody is going to take away anything you already have.