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Dear Devs: Do you know how much time a paying player has?
vocmcp
Member Posts: 1,134 Arc User
Hey Cryptic
I'm just wondering if you have ever analyzed how much time players spend on playing STO in relation to how much they spend on the game? Have u also put this into relation with how many days it takes them to progress trough the game e.g. levels or spec?
My assumption is that spending players generally have less time to play on average than free players. Given that levelling etc. does not take this into account a paying player will progress slower than a free player. The way the system is the grind is the same for everyone.
Do you think it's fair to raise the grind stakes so much that the people who actually pay for the game get left behind? Do you also consider this a wise business decision to give the paying players the feeling they're being left behind on progression?
Or put differently, should levelling etc. really only discriminate by time spent or take earnings from those players into account as well?
I'm just wondering if you have ever analyzed how much time players spend on playing STO in relation to how much they spend on the game? Have u also put this into relation with how many days it takes them to progress trough the game e.g. levels or spec?
My assumption is that spending players generally have less time to play on average than free players. Given that levelling etc. does not take this into account a paying player will progress slower than a free player. The way the system is the grind is the same for everyone.
Do you think it's fair to raise the grind stakes so much that the people who actually pay for the game get left behind? Do you also consider this a wise business decision to give the paying players the feeling they're being left behind on progression?
Or put differently, should levelling etc. really only discriminate by time spent or take earnings from those players into account as well?
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I am perfectly willing to pay for content. I do this IRL when I go to the bowling alley on league nights. The bowling alley does not put me behind time gates and say, you have to bowl a game a day or you can't get the good shoes...
If you are aiming to cozy up to a non paying player group, your business is headed in the right general direction. Look at the forum posts which indicate a walk away from buying zen. Read about a Dedicated player base: the KDF... And how they long to play KDF content, and how they long for faction consistent, updated starships.
Personally, I am applauding some of your new content. The dust to dust mission is not all just space bar mushing. Thank you. Truly. The rate of content is much lower than other MMO I have played. Do you not have access to an idea farm of Star Trek fan-fic of astounding depth.?.? Roll out some more of it, I will pay Zen for good content.
Please consider more fun mission paths. There are known ways to make branching story lines... That result in one of 16 endings ...or one of four if you like to thin it down. Faction specific story branches can be managed with mere storyboarding, and some basic script skills. Jumping games are very basic variations to space bar mashing, thank you for trying them. Please continue to try out more plot types, and game types ( such as the under served puzzles types ). You can skip the scavenger hunt type though... They are just grinding with a short theme.
I have limited time away from my shift at the factory. Most of the rhythm games and other minigames are quite boring, and hurt my hands after some repetition.
I play this game for the love of Trek. Please focus on what Trek is. The Gamer side of this game is not really polished enough to keep the pro gamers here. They are probably not going to be your customer base much, due to problems they keep bringing up in the forums. (See all those angry posts in all the other threads).
I work, I have expendable income, if I enjoy a game I'll spend money on it, if its just an endless grind that leads to more grind so I can grind.. uh, why?
I only get maybe a couple hours a night to play, last night it was none, its great that kids who don't make money can play for 5 hours a day and meet your grind requirements, but why are we designing games around them?
I made it to the level cap in Rift, only to find a grind of unthinkable scale.
I'm playing my first character in swtor, and while I am pretty sure there is a grind at the end, there are like 8 stories that are a good 60+ hours long to get through. The clunkiness threw me off at first, but it kind of grows on you.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
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The way I see for PWE/cryptic logic this goes too deep into the understanding of players which does not seem necessary.
The success of this game seems to be measured in log in numbers of days/weeks/moth in combination of money investments. Some peeps just log and raise those numbers, others may spend. Who does what doesn't matter for as long as the profit is up.
The way how you spend your time in game as well as the question how much you like it or how satisfactory your progress is is of secondary interest at best, if at all. Whales and time spenders are in the same boat here.
It really works a bit like the viewing numbers in tw on cheap soap operas with the related investment compared to the income of advertisement breaks, where most peeps get into the kitchen anyway.
Of course you could also produce a brilliant movie which everbody talks about and peeps watch multiple times but why bother. You have your drama and can drink a new cola from the supermarket on top of it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Before it was dropped, City of Heroes did this quite well with its Going Rogue expansion. I truly got into this, it offered some great story line twists and surprises. It also gives us a lot more 'replayability' in that you could choose a different path for a different set of outcomes.
Get to it Cryptic!
your presuming to know cryptic? hah!
who knows what cryptic management want, but you can be sure that this assumption of yours wont even answer into it because you chose to invest into it and you are ultimately responsible for it. if i were to pretend i was a cryptic management member i would be thinking "fool parted from his money, not that i care what he states as long as he keeps throwing money at it and not thinking about it until after hes realized his mistake."
you either play the game or you dont.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Like I keep on saying about specializations, you dont need it to max specializations to do elite content. Demanding these maxed out specializations immediately is a product of self-entitlement and the player being spoiled.
Now that trick I'd like to know....
Other than that I don't demand things immediately but given the time I have to play others who play constantly (and for free) will progress a lot faster. If this is the case for paying members in general you may find some that take month just to progress a couple of levels in the meantime of which new stuff comes out. So why the heck should I pay for a game that doesn't let me play it respectively progress at a rate that I am actually able to make decent progress within the time I have. An extreme version would be a system that would take your average weekly playtime and adjust your levelling progression in a way (speed up or slow down) that you'd make it to a certain point within 3 month. So intensive players would get slowed down a little and casual (but paying) members would have some tailwind. This would ease a lot of frustration and grind.
(And please don't bring up ridiculously overpriced xp boosts here.)
So basically, what you're saying is that your want Cryptic to award XP as an average, so that if you don't play as often, you still progress as much as those players who play constantly?
You can't be serious... Those players who have alot of time to play should progress faster... Why should you be spoonfed because you don't have as much time as another person...
The world does not work that way... 2 people at a gym, person A goes every day, person B goes once a week... Your advocating that person B's workout should be artificially enhanced so that they burn off as many calories as person A, because person B cannot go as often...
Sorry, but no... Just... No...
Why should another players' efforts be rendered less valuable, simply because they have more time to play? You claim it's 'unfair' because you cannot play as often, but your proposal is unfair on those players who can play more often...
Someone who has the time to invest, and does so, should indeed progress faster than someone who only plays a short while each week...
Something else you seem to fail to consider, a change like this would kill the game as it would actually be more beneficial for players to log in less...
Though you might be suggesting this only benefit paying customers, but should I, who right now due to an injury has alot of time to play, be penalised in the way you propose, despite being an Life Time Subscriber? Should my time be considered less valuable than yours and you still receive additional benefits anyway?
How do you even define a 'paying customer' in a F2P game? Someone with Gold membership, or people who often purchase Zen?
Your proposal is simply unfair on anyone who plays this game more than you do and is a terrible idea...
As I wrote above this would be an "an extreme" version for discussion purposes. This doesn't mean that I'd introduce it the same way. For example I wouldn't want to slow down players. But others that have a subscription for example could get some more tailwind if their playtime is little. Or the could buy this option on top.
I ask you again, does that mean that despite my being able to play alot right now and being a Lifer, you should still receive additional bonuses because you don't play as often as I do?
Or do we both just receive a flat percentage XP boost for being paid subscribers? The way your post comes across, you are advocating that a perk of being a 'paying customer' (which you never clearly defined) should be receiving free XP because you don't play as often as others...
Unless there is a flat percentage increase for Gold members (which Cryptic are not going to do) your proposal is unfair on those Gold members who play more than you, so the idea is a terribly unfair proposal irrespective of how you look at it...
The core one being what was referred to as the first purchase barrier where after a person has spent money once they are more willing to spend again. That first purchase is the hardest. Which is why sto now has a first zen purchase prize. Farmville did similar years ago.
The other big finding, and the source of the worst misunderstanding in all of gaming history was when zynga noticed across all their games and tens of millions of players the people who logged in daily were most likely to spend money and on average they spent more.
The horrible mistake was assuming forcing other people to log in daily would increase their likelihood of spending. Every gamer with a brain could have told them "moron those are the people who are having the most fun, of course they will pay to support you". Instead of data mining to find what those people found fun and increasing it, zynga implemented the daily login " energy" mechanic and then the "pay to skip waiting" monetization. And exploitation worked, though not as well as they expected. But well enough that everyone else has copied it. Well, nearly everyone anyway.
Because they were the 800lb gorilla with the biggest share of the industry, people believed them and copied them. I don't know who invented the ideas, or who was first, but when the biggest guy moved, the industry followed. Years later, here we are today scratching our heads asking how we got so far from the fun.
Now, more modern studies have brought out the distinction of whales vs minnows and blahblahblah. Long story short, whales do spend a lot of time playing. And they drop money like it was a drug. Because it is, they get a huge endorphin and adrenaline double shot from achievement in their favorite game (all of us do actually, just we don't all link it to game spending and achievement as a reward cycle like a game dev's dream whale will). And that promotes further spending. And more and more game design is based around getting them in game, putting a barrier in front of them, and letting them pay to knock the barrier down.
Minnows play more efficiently, and some even find more fun in outwitting the barriers and paygates than in-game accomplishments. Game developers in general dislike this mentality and try to minimize it among their players.
I used to work right by digipen in Redmond wa (Microsoft's "redwest" campus) and there were a lot of cool people taking classes on game design to eat lunch with. I miss those guys haha. Anyway, not pointing fingers at cryptic here, just talking generalities. I see many of these trends here, and I see them growing over time but man its so much worse in the mobile arena.
You have a good point there. I guess there are several solutions:
a) Same gold boost for everyone who subscribes - which would put silver players at a disadvantage
b) Give a boost to subscribers who play less then say 5 hours a week (I don't think this would devaluate your time too much). You could also have sever steps. E.g. a smaller one for 5-10 hours. 10+ would maybe get a small dill perk instead.
c) Put meaningful booster items into the zen store. You could only make them accessible for gold members but they could decide to spend their 500zen stipend on that boost. Others who don't need it have the 500 zen for other stuff. It's just important that the boost is of significance and not this utterly overpriced TRIBBLE we have now.
Actually I quite like C I have to say
Thanks a lot for those insights! I fear there may be a point to what you're writing. If this is indeed the case the whole thread would be pointless....
Anyway do you happen to have any link to some of Zyngas analysis or the execs talking about it?
Not enough purchasable bonuses for?
You already get free points that can be used for convenience items, but you want more.
Here that Cryptic, we deserve more free stuff because we subscribe.
Your playstyle is irrelevant.
Your finances and your time shall be assimilated.
Resistance is futile.
500 zen stipend is not enough to warrant subing (lifers start earning zen after about a year if you consider 300 something dollars in zen value)
Subscribers don't get "free" points. They paid for it with their subscription.
I was Klingon before Klingon was cool.
The fact that they costs way too much and hardly have any effect on top makes them pretty useless. The R&D XP boost for example is even more expensive than just spending dil on it right away.
Just like Captain Picard got promoted up to Captain waiting for the magical promotion to happen, sitting on a chair at Starfleet Academy.
Not going to happen. And some subscription players should just shut up on willing to have x,y,z every time, every month with the same excuse: "we are subscribers". Who cares about your troubles with not being able to play as much as others do.
Game is designed to reward your progression. If you don't do anything, you don't get anything.
No-one has suggested "progression for nothing". The question is why Cryptic operate a time-grind heavy system which it is impossible for players to pay to speed up; the business logic being that players who have "money but not time" can spend the former.