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The Krenim

ironcaniacironcaniac Member Posts: 131 Media Corps
edited March 2015 in Federation Discussion
"Dust to Dust" made another reference to the Krenim so it's more than likely we'll see them soon. Imagine encountering the Krenim in a story mission only to be hit with a space-time distortion wave and...

...you find yourself back in your tier 1 tutorial ship with your original common boffs (Flores, T'Vrell, Zarva, and Kolez). :eek: Now what? Can you finish the mission and restore the timeline without your fancy endgame ship and abilities?

How's that for an STO anniversary "celebration" challenge? Going back to basics...
:cool: :P
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Post edited by ironcaniac on
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Comments

  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,687 Community Moderator
    edited February 2015
    Eh... wouldn't work for everyone as a lot of people were here before the tutorial changed to its current form. And I don't think Flores was a common BOff.
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  • ironcaniacironcaniac Member Posts: 131 Media Corps
    edited February 2015
    I imagine the mechanics would be exactly like when the game puts you in an alien ship for parts of a mission. Like the BoP, the Enterprise-C, Obelisk, etc. It wouldn't literally put you back in your tutorial ship but the functional equivalent.
    After only 4 months, 19 weeks, 134 days, it's here. It's real!
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  • jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,803 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Eh... wouldn't work for everyone as a lot of people were here before the tutorial changed to its current form. And I don't think Flores was a common BOff.

    I don't think this would be a problem.

    The Krenim time gun doesn't send you back or forward in time, it just alters your present. They could easily write a mission that has you wind up in an under-geared low-tier ship with those original four BOffs. You'd simply give the player an option via dialog to recognize them or not. Player who did have them could play like that was their own past. Players who predate them have it handwaved that these people showed up here because of the Krenim temporal frakery.

    Remember the old mantra, "It's temporal mechanics, I ain't gotta explain sh*t."
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  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I do hope we get the Krenim soon, if only because that's what the playerbase voted on for Season Eight. And I would love to get their ships and stuff in the Foundry.

    Of course, knowing Cryptic, they'll throw everything that makes the Krenim unique into a lockbox. :(
    Save the Foundry!
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    ironcaniac wrote: »
    "Dust to Dust" made another reference to the Krenim so it's more than likely we'll see them soon. Imagine encountering the Krenim in a story mission only to be hit with a space-time distortion wave and...

    ...you find yourself back in your tier 1 tutorial ship with your original common boffs (Flores, T'Vrell, Zarva, and Kolez). :eek: Now what? Can you finish the mission and restore the timeline without your fancy endgame ship and abilities?

    How's that for an STO anniversary "celebration" challenge? Going back to basics...
    :cool: :P

    Who the frell are Flores, T'Vrell, Zarva and Kolez?

    Non-snarky version: My Fed predates the new tutorial by roughly a year. Which is good, because it lets her backstory make a hell of a lot more sense than being given permanent command of a ship on your midshipman cruise.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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  • ashstorm1ashstorm1 Member Posts: 679 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Flores, really now...

    The one purple BOFF that i threw away without an afterthought after having fun deforming her via the tailor.

    I make a guess she'd be pretty mad at me.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    To be fair, there IS only so much that they could do with the Krenim story-wise.

    The Temporal weapon ship, which is - lets face it - the only thing anyone really thinks about when they come in in conversation - has limited application in STO.

    Timeline changes would be EXTREMELY difficult to implement in anything other than a one-shot/Feature episode, and that would have to conclude with the timeline restored. They wouldn't be able to make a long-term thing out of it, as it would impact on other content too much. For example, it would feel completely bizarre playing Argala subsequent to playing a FE where the Vadwaaur were erased from the timeline or reduced to their 'Dragons Teeth' state.
    presumably it'd be like the mission with the Ent-C where you undo it at the end.

    But yeah, I have multiple version of the Andorian tac Boff that you used to get. Only one or two of my chars went back and got Flores.
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  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Well there is Temporal Ambassador that they could tie such a mission into, I don't recall a canon explanation as to why the Ent-C went awol and it wouldn't be the first time Cryptic had decided to use that as an excuse to further their story, maybe something we did to protect the timeline after an error of the Krenim resulted in the events of TA...
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    adamkafei wrote: »
    Well there is Temporal Ambassador that they could tie such a mission into, I don't recall a canon explanation as to why the Ent-C went awol and it wouldn't be the first time Cryptic had decided to use that as an excuse to further their story, maybe something we did to protect the timeline after an error of the Krenim resulted in the events of TA...

    As time travel stories go that one actually makes sense.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
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  • trelane87trelane87 Member Posts: 242 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    psycoticvulcan wrote: »
    I do hope we get the Krenim soon, if only because that's what the playerbase voted on for Season Eight. And I would love to get their ships and stuff in the Foundry.

    Of course, knowing Cryptic, they'll throw everything that makes the Krenim unique into a lockbox. :(

    I'd give all my space monies for a Krenim Timeship, if it can slot the consoles from the existing timeships I'd die of happiness :D
  • nyx219nyx219 Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    It could be such a fun mission to have, even for a one-timer. We know the Krenim have been walloped pretty good in the game's timeline, and we know at the end of Year of Hell, than Annorax was fiddling with his work at his desk. He could certainly have plowed into it after the STO events in effort to undo everything that's happened so far.

    And I have the Andorian tac myself still. She's a real dog with a bone in ground combat, not afraid to get in there & get dirty til the job's done ;)
  • piotrtiberiuspiotrtiberius Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I'd suggest that it be a different Krenim continuing Annorax' work, and a different but functionally identical ship. As I understood the ending, the original ship wrote itself out of existence by making it so that Annorax did not (and never would) finish it.

    But this sounds like a good idea, that I'd really like to see. Make us show what a Tier 1 ship can accomplish.

    (Incidentally, I took the Andorian Tac too. I fully intend to keep her in my standard away team at all times.)
  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    To be fair, there IS only so much that they could do with the Krenim story-wise.

    The Temporal weapon ship, which is - lets face it - the only thing anyone really thinks about when they come in in conversation - has limited application in STO.

    How much did we know about the Elachi before they were added to STO? And the Krenim have a lot of stuff that was never really followed up in the episode: an empire that spanned 5,000 parsecs, conflicts with neighboring species like the Zahl and the Rilnar, etc. We don't need a time travel mission at all.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    The Temporal weapon ship, which is - lets face it - the only thing anyone really thinks about when they come in in conversation - has limited application in STO.

    Timeline changes would be EXTREMELY difficult to implement in anything other than a one-shot/Feature episode, and that would have to conclude with the timeline restored. They wouldn't be able to make a long-term thing out of it, as it would impact on other content too much. For example, it would feel completely bizarre playing Argala subsequent to playing a FE where the Vadwaaur were erased from the timeline or reduced to their 'Dragons Teeth' state.

    It should be the boss of a queue mission, the eraser beam should be its special weapon it uses on players, and getting hit with it should dump you out of the mission as if you had never queued for it in the first place. :cool:

    Of course, that would raise the question of, if you didn't queue for it, wouldn't someone else have queued for it in your place...which means it should pick the next guy waiting in queue to replace you...temporal mechanics are such a pain...
  • odyssey47odyssey47 Member Posts: 524 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    starswordc wrote: »
    Who the frell are Flores, T'Vrell, Zarva and Kolez?

    Non-snarky version: My Fed predates the new tutorial by roughly a year. Which is good, because it lets her backstory make a hell of a lot more sense than being given permanent command of a ship on your midshipman cruise.

    You were an ensign in the original tutorial, doesn't make that much more sense. Besides, are you saying that JJ trek is stupid for giving cadet Kirk command of the enterprise? Lol
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    psycoticvulcan wrote: »
    How much did we know about the Elachi before they were added to STO? And the Krenim have a lot of stuff that was never really followed up in the episode: an empire that spanned 5,000 parsecs, conflicts with neighboring species like the Zahl and the Rilnar, etc. We don't need a time travel mission at all.
    In the current timeline the Krenim Imperium got roflstomped by the Vaadwaur. According to the in-game description for the Zahl system they were allies and the Zahl took in lots of Krenim refugees.
    odyssey47 wrote: »
    You were an ensign in the original tutorial, doesn't make that much more sense. Besides, are you saying that JJ trek is stupid for giving cadet Kirk command of the enterprise? Lol
    Ensign, maybe, but because the PC was a blank slate there's room for you not to have been totally ****ing green. I RP'd Eleya as not only being within a couple weeks of promotion to JG, but also prior enlisted.

    And yes, JJtrek is stupid for giving Cadet Kirk command of the Enterprise, as he abundantly demonstrated in the opening to STID by lying on his mission report, and lying incompetently at that, without making sure that the rest of his senior staff was on-board. Prime Kirk was one of the youngest Starfleet captains ever, with a supremely distinguished service record, and he'd still been on active duty for eighteen years before getting the Ent-Nil. Picard was a lieutenant commander before he got the Stargazer, Sisko was a full commander, and Janeway was a full-bird captain and had previously been senior staff under Tom Paris' dad.

    Nobody gets a command without serious length of service under their belt. It comes down to the simple fact that you can't learn to command men in a classroom.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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  • ironcaniacironcaniac Member Posts: 131 Media Corps
    edited February 2015
    Ok, so clearly, I was unaware that the tutorial used to be very different. Did you at least still start with a Miranda-class light cruiser?

    And let's not get too hung up on the specific boffs. The idea simply was that you would be without the high end abilities that you'd grown accustomed to (or perhaps even taken for granted) in both space and ground maps...for at least one mission. So would you be up to the challenge?
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  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    ironcaniac wrote: »
    Ok, so clearly, I was unaware that the tutorial used to be very different. Did you at least still start with a Miranda-class light cruiser?

    And let's not get too hung up on the specific boffs. The idea simply was that you would be without the high end abilities that you'd grown accustomed to (or perhaps even taken for granted) in both space and ground maps...for at least one mission. So would you be up to the challenge?

    Interesting assumption. But some players are not accustomed to such.

    My most recent character flew d'vex's t'liss all the way to 40. There's people who've done similar including running estfs (old) in Connie's and oberths, even some who went level 1 to 50 in a Connie at elite difficulty. Then there were the ausmonaughts and their beating all elite content in teams with only tier 1 ships.

    That character is currently 58 nearly through the delta story in a mirror t'varo with mostly mark 9 to 11 gear. He has a single mark 12 turret.

    So, yes, sounds like fun.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    ironcaniac wrote: »
    Ok, so clearly, I was unaware that the tutorial used to be very different. Did you at least still start with a Miranda-class light cruiser?

    And let's not get too hung up on the specific boffs. The idea simply was that you would be without the high end abilities that you'd grown accustomed to (or perhaps even taken for granted) in both space and ground maps...for at least one mission. So would you be up to the challenge?
    Yeah, that's the only use the Miranda has ever really had actually.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • zellkarrathzellkarrath Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    piotrtiberius wrote: »
    I'd suggest that it be a different Krenim continuing Annorax' work, and a different but functionally identical ship. As I understood the ending, the original ship wrote itself out of existence by making it so that Annorax did not (and never would) finish it.

    But this sounds like a good idea, that I'd really like to see. Make us show what a Tier 1 ship can accomplish.

    (Incidentally, I took the Andorian Tac too. I fully intend to keep her in my standard away team at all times.)

    My best bet would be that it will be something like Annorax's son or daughter, assuming he ends up having one with his wife. That way you could assume that his research would have been kept in the family, and easily dug up. It would probably take a bit of time for someone to complete his work after the Vaadwaur wrecked the Krenim though. Maybe enough time has passed by now though.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    zellkarrath wrote: »
    My best bet would be that it will be something like Annorax's son or daughter, assuming he ends up having one with his wife. That way you could assume that his research would have been kept in the family, and easily dug up. It would probably take a bit of time for someone to complete his work after the Vaadwaur wrecked the Krenim though. Maybe enough time has passed by now though.

    That'd be a misuse of valuable resources (in-universe) at this juncture, as I explained in an earlier thread:
    starswordc wrote: »
    The "big deal" is that, contrary to popular belief, major engineering projects such as the Krenim temporal weapon ship are not the product of a single genius. Annorax can come up with the underlying theory behind the main gun, but to actually build the thing you need raw materials, construction workers, engineers to design subsidiary and support systems, other engineers to solve problems with translating the theory to something you can actually build, and money to pay for all of it. All of which are going to be prioritized to other more practical projects because, assuming the Vaads didn't completely exterminate the Krenim in the first place, they're on the run and need to set up housekeeping someplace safe and secure, and rebuild their conventional military to the point where it's useful again, before they can even think about TRIBBLE around with the timelines.
    Basically (assuming Cryptic uses anything remotely resembling internal consistency) the Krenim are at this point too busy trying to put their lives back together post-Vaadwaur to even think about building the timeship.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    starswordc wrote: »
    Basically (assuming Cryptic uses anything remotely resembling internal consistency) the Krenim are at this point too busy trying to put their lives back together post-Vaadwaur to even think about building the timeship.

    On the other hand, now might be the best time to turn to an "Instant Win" ship. A rogue Krenim officer and some associates, for example, might want to use it to restore the Imperium to its former, pre-Vaadwaur glory.
    Save the Foundry!
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    "Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
    -Thomas Marrone
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    psycoticvulcan wrote: »
    On the other hand, now might be the best time to turn to an "Instant Win" ship. A rogue Krenim officer and some associates, for example, might want to use it to restore the Imperium to its former, pre-Vaadwaur glory.

    You misunderstand: I'm not saying they wouldn't do it, I'm saying they can't do it. They need the resources that would go to a project like that for building houses and power stations.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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  • zellkarrathzellkarrath Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    starswordc wrote: »
    That'd be a misuse of valuable resources (in-universe) at this juncture, as I explained in an earlier thread:

    Basically (assuming Cryptic uses anything remotely resembling internal consistency) the Krenim are at this point too busy trying to put their lives back together post-Vaadwaur to even think about building the timeship.

    Makes sense, but a lot of Krenim would certainly be desperate after what the Vaadwaur did to them. Almost overnight they went from having a comfortable position of power in the Delta Quadrant to being on the verge of complete destruction. A lot of people would have died, and quite a few people would still be in a state of shock or denial over what happened. The thought of simply erasing this war from existence and saving their loved ones would look more appealing than trying to start over to a lot of people.

    That however doesn't mean that they actually can build it however. Like you said, they probably don't have the resources or manpower to do it. Or perhaps they do? Who knows, they could write it in that the time ship was already under production prior to the war due to say the threat of the Borg or some other major power. Or if we really want to make this silly, Cryptic could just have The Iconians supply the Krenim with the necessary materials to build the ship so they can destabilize the region again, undoing the Delta Alliance in the process. Certainly I hope the latter isn't the case, as I'm tired of antagonists and plot lines always somehow tracing back to the Iconians somehow. Regardless, if Cryptic wants it to happen, they can find a way to do it. I just hope they offer an explanation that actually works or seems believable.
  • ironcaniacironcaniac Member Posts: 131 Media Corps
    edited February 2015
    But of course the Krenim who decide to use the time weapon conclude that they cannot simply erase the Vaadwaur since they have been around for too long. Erasing them would cause too much unintended change to the timeline, so they decide to do the next best thing: Erase the ship that woke the Vaadwaur from hibernation... Voyager!

    :eek:
    After only 4 months, 19 weeks, 134 days, it's here. It's real!
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  • gnosis82gnosis82 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I would be very surprised if we don't get a full story arc or at least a multi-mission sub-arc centered on the Krenim. Time travel, alternate realities, temporal anomalies out of control...

    Also, as others have stated, the Imperium is/was huge. It would be all but impossible to take out every world and base at the same time - enough that a secret project like the timeship could have been secreted away and built for retaliation.

    When I think of the timeship I picture the borg command ship that attacks sectors. Only maybe instead of destroying it, maybe we have to help defend the timeship until it can take out some big threat.
  • reynoldsxdreynoldsxd Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    The argument that a leftover krenim faction could not build a ship like the Krenim weapon ship is invalid.

    Shinzon and his happy bunch of remans managed to build the scimitar after all.
  • gazurtoidgazurtoid Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I'm personally hoping the Krenim Temporal Weapon ship would reset STO to the way it was before Delta Rising
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  • lessley00lessley00 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    gazurtoid wrote: »
    I'm personally hoping the Krenim Temporal Weapon ship would reset STO to the way it was before Delta Rising

    Could it revamp LOR as well so that we dont pick factions? And could it bring back the dilithium store? OH but keep all the good things about delta rising like the story arc and Kobali Prime
    Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn
    Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
    Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Why would anyone want the dilithium store back? It was a total ripoff. Go to Battle Group Omega, there's still a dilithium store there, and look at how undervalued dilithium was. Awful gear for an awful price. Makes upgrading look cheap in comparison.
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