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I dont get it .. People hoarded marks to turn in at DIL event

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  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Because the event isn't to reward you for stuff you did 4 months ago. It's about getting people to actively play the game on the event. And "active" play is not exactly hopping characters and turning in hundreds of marks.

    It's not only an incentive for people to come back to the game and play it (but with whom, if everyone is turning in marks), but it's also a way to give them a bit of a head start so they don't lag quite as strong behind the people that log in every day. But by allowing people to bank marks for extra rewards on this item, the effect is completely the opposite. Only people that regularly play could reap the full rewards.

    So, what you are saying is reward those who casually play, with nothing better than before but, punish those who regularly play to get ahead?

    Mmmmm, that sounds logical let me tell you! :rolleyes:
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    So, what you are saying is reward those who casually play, with nothing better than before but, punish those who regularly play to get ahead?

    Mmmmm, that sounds logical let me tell you! :rolleyes:

    They reward the casual players by actually giving them people that want to do Dilithium granting activities with them, instead of making this the "Turning in Marks for Dilithium" Appreciation Day.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    They do that to hope for a bigger payout when the event hits. They did the same thing when Rep boxes was being used. They hoard the boxes until the event weekend/week popped up. Then cashed them in for major Exp, Marks or Dil. I can't remember which it was. Then they stopped that, and caused the same fuss/crying like this time. Was it an exploit or not? The answer to that can go either way.

    To me I could care less. I'm here to fly starships, ground action, level up, and see new stories/missions. As I'm still leveling to Lv60. Dil just not a top priority in my gaming time. Enjoying the content is. And there is still plenty left for me to see and do.
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  • dongemaharudongemaharu Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    They reward the casual players by actually giving them people that want to do Dilithium granting activities with them, instead of making this the "Turning in Marks for Dilithium" Appreciation Day.

    What are the dilithium granting activities, and how does spending 20 minutes or so over 3 days converting marks inhibit these activities? I'm curious, because Cryptic has a large portion of the player base collecting Omega molecules rather than playing with other people.
  • uryenserellonturyenserellont Member Posts: 858 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    aoax10 wrote: »
    ^This. My wife thinks they are nerfing it to death because the business is suffering and going out. Who knows what's going on......who knows....

    I don't think she's wrong. I think we all know about the third quarter financial reports from a few months ago.

    The problem is thinking that these nerfs will somehow reverse the trend rather than accelerate it. That's what the suits in charge seem to think, or at least used to. There is a chance they came to their senses and the new executive producer t is a step in the right direction. Only a chance, and I only say that because it's too soon to tell.

    All I know is if they keep going in this direction the game dies. If you're under pressure from your chinese overlord to increase profits you won't do it by irritating and aggravating your players.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    What are the dilithium granting activities, and how does spending 20 minutes or so over 3 days converting marks inhibit these activities? I'm curious, because Cryptic has a large portion of the player base collecting Omega molecules rather than playing with other people.

    Very true, even the Argala System was empty for once! There was like 5 ships there! :eek:
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    What are the dilithium granting activities, and how does spending 20 minutes or so over 3 days converting marks inhibit these activities? I'm curious, because Cryptic has a large portion of the player base collecting Omega molecules rather than playing with other people.

    The same as they always are. Queued Events and War Zones.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    You don't? - See my post in this Forum on the Official announcement about the Event ALL LAST YEAR.

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1370881
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
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    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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  • aoax10aoax10 Member Posts: 271 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    It's sad to see that even some of the their (Cryptic) own employees are having internal issues with management while the higher-ups think they 'know it all'.
  • raeatraeat Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    They reward the casual players by actually giving them people that want to do Dilithium granting activities with them, instead of making this the "Turning in Marks for Dilithium" Appreciation Day.

    Judging from everything I have seen and read, the players could use an Appreciation Day.

    We've sure had enough Bend Over & Take It days.
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  • imruinedimruined Member Posts: 1,457 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    The issue isn't that SOME employees feel this way, it's that MOST seem to according to that source of feedback.

    What substantiated source is this?
    The entitlement is strong in these forums...

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  • imruinedimruined Member Posts: 1,457 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Glassdoor. There was a link earlier for it...not sure you would accept that as substantiated however (I don't). But in either case, if the feedback is real, like I said, not THAT surprised.

    http://www.glassdoor.com.au/Reviews/Cryptic-Studios-Reviews-E267596.htm

    The environment favors autistic people who own dogs.

    Something tells me this site is potential bull****... Especially since I can jump in there and post a review of my employment experience, without having to verify a single thing about what I'm posting, when not an employee...

    I wouldn't put too much stock in it personally, even though the majority of the reviews do indeed seem relatively positive - I hear much worse from colleagues about my employers... At the very least I'd wanna take them with a grain of salt personally...
    The entitlement is strong in these forums...

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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I think I've said this plenty of times already, but here's my two cents (again).

    Cryptic is in the habit of punishing successful players who are able to outwit their 'intended' design of the game, and they are in the habit of continually lowering the bar for new players.

    By holding off this change until the last possible minute, Cryptic is able to reap the rewards of having higher player retention as those players were scrimping and saving for Dilithium weekend. However, now that saving for the future is an apparent negative quality, Cryptic decided to take away the bonus from turning in marks, etc. for the promise of more dilithium elsewhere in the game in the future. Otherwise known as Soon(tm).

    Maybe if players knew about this change in advance, they may not have burnt themselves out on Mark-related content in anticipation for this weekend. But that simply does not matter to Cryptic at this point. They got the players in game and playing their buggy content even if the only rewarding, goal-oriented mindset they might be in was simply to stock up on Marks to cash in later.

    The spec point incident before similarly highlighted that Cryptic can not fathom players being able to be smarter than they are when it comes to decision making. Cryptic lacks a strong sense of foresight and an ability to anticipate future consequences as a result of their present actions. The idea that some players have that strength is evidently abhorrent to them, and players who enjoy success and investing for the future must be brought down to the 'intended' level where Cryptic's over-all mind is set.

    Which is the 'Now'. This is why Stephen Ricossa mentioned that they wanted marks to be valuable at any time, not just for the future. This highlights their line of thought, which is that the majority of their players must be short-sighted and exist only in the moment, and any players who bucks that trend will simply be yanked backward.

    It wasn't just with Delta Rising. We saw it earlier. We saw it with AdjudicatorHawk's "Rep traits can not be infinitely scalable", despite the fact Cryptic must have known about this in their very early design meetings, but they failed to really reign in this problem until several reputations were out already.

    Players were playing the game in the search for greater power and competitive nature, but they had to be yanked backwards so 'newer' level 50's could be on par with them. Of course, this was a very bs reason, given Delta Rising's new spec point mechanics, where not all level 50's (or 60's) are created equal.

    Even before those changes, we saw it with the Dilithium conversion when the game first went f2p. Too many players got badges/marks/whatever, and thus Cryptic felt the need to punish their players who were 'too successful' for their own good.

    This Dilithium Weekend incident is just another symptom of Cryptic's inability to comprehend that there are players who want to be really successful and powerful in their own game.

    Expect more of the same. Expect Mark and Elite Currency gains on Bonus Marks Weekend to be given a cap, so that players can only earn X amount of bonus marks the entire weekend. The usual excuse will be, "A small number of players decided to do nothing but queued events all weekend, while ignoring them the rest of the time. We decided to introduce this cap to make Bonus Marks Weekend better, but don't worry, we're offering more ways to get Marks in the future."

    Expect the new Spec Point system to be reigned in similarly. Watch it become overhauled because "New" level 60's can't compete with players who are at their Spec Point cap.

    Honestly, Cryptic can literally make up any excuse they want to punish the overly successful.
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  • fatman592fatman592 Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    They reward the casual players by actually giving them people that want to do Dilithium granting activities with them, instead of making this the "Turning in Marks for Dilithium" Appreciation Day.

    Hmm, I'm sitting on thousands of marks with no incentive to turn them in, nor any reason to enter the queues for more marks. So I haven't entered the queues since they made the change. If anything, this change has given me even less incentive to play.

    I have enough marks to do a couple hourly rep projects for months. This is what certain people, who assert that we have lost nothing, don't seem to understand. This change, among many recent changes, encourages anti-social behavior.

    I'll just log in, do some doffing while it's still profitable, start some hourly rep projects and log out. Good move devs.
  • hojain2020hojain2020 Member Posts: 417 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    fatman592 wrote: »
    Hmm, I'm sitting on thousands of marks with no incentive to turn them in, nor any reason to enter the queues for more marks. So I haven't entered the queues since they made the change. If anything, this change has given me even less incentive to play.

    I have enough marks to do a couple hourly rep projects for months. This is what certain people, who assert that we have lost nothing, don't seem to understand. This change, among many recent changes, encourages anti-social behavior.

    I'll just log in, do some doffing while it's still profitable, start some hourly rep projects and log out. Good move devs.

    yep too true ... getting to be exactly what im doing and ive been just playing a few months.
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  • bansheedragonbansheedragon Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    fatman592 wrote: »
    Hmm, I'm sitting on thousands of marks with no incentive to turn them in, nor any reason to enter the queues for more marks. So I haven't entered the queues since they made the change. If anything, this change has given me even less incentive to play.

    I have enough marks to do a couple hourly rep projects for months. This is what certain people, who assert that we have lost nothing, don't seem to understand. This change, among many recent changes, encourages anti-social behavior.

    I'll just log in, do some doffing while it's still profitable, start some hourly rep projects and log out. Good move devs.
    I have compltely lost all incentive/interest in logging in at all.
    Doffing never held much interest for me and there is nothing else to do.
    I'm close enough to uninstalling the game, that I have removed the shortcut on my desktop, but not actually uninstalled yet.
    But unless something is done to regain my interest in the next couple moneths, then the probability that I will uninstall the game and not look back will be close to 100%.
    It would just take up space on my disk that could be better used for something else.
  • vsilverwings1vsilverwings1 Member Posts: 572 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Chances are it took this long for Cryptic to figure out that people were hoarding outside the event to capitalise on the event itself. It takes time for the community to catch on and act then the metrics to come through and tell Cryptic how we play. Someone already made the point of Cryptic asking "How can we stop them do this?" instead of "Why are they doing this and how can we do more of this to benefit us?"

    I used to farm outside the even and then use the event to turn in. Now I won't play outside the event (so worse for Cryptic) and since I'll have nothing to turn in during the event I'll at best farm 4 days worth of STO for rewards I may use one day though if I'm not playing outside the event and farming during the event....why am I farming?

    When this Command pack comes out I'm not paying a penny and will rather wait until it's on sale on c store where I can throw zen I've made from dil and even then I'll have doubts. The content is buggy and unbalanced so new ships aren't going to change that.

    This omega event is a goldmine and I saw Cryptic nerfing the hell out of it and doing another Japori but....no so I can see us having more omega kits than we can handle, not using the R&D system or dil/zen to make our epic gear, hursting Cryptic's profits therefore forcing them to nerf or change the game to the point their worthless or you need to remake all your eqipment again. We will cry/leave and the game dies that bit more. I should be farming Omega so much more and yet it feels like its an effort to play the game even though I love the minigame, STO as a whole is putting me off although I've got rl stuff going on which means that takes priority.
  • raeatraeat Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Craptic ambushed us with a nerf at the last possible second after deceiving us into thinking we were working towards a goal. We put in the hours and hours of game time which looked good for their metrics only to have the anticipated benefit ripped away from us *AFTER* the last possible second. That was a thoroughly scumbag move specifically devised and intended to victimize the players.

    One would have to be an idiot to think there is not more of the same coming, especially if the player base allows them to get away with that deplorable behaviour. That's why I am moving away from the game. I could forgive a lot of TRIBBLE and still be supportive, which I was for more than three years, if I don't see deliberate malice at work. But this after the last second ambush is very deliberately malicious.

    There is no reason to trust Craptic's word now, and every reason not to. There is no reason to even suspect what you work for, based on promises from thoroughly dishonest persons, will be honoured. Without that basic stability, the incentive to play is diluted to near nothing.

    White knights and other brown nosers will not understand this, of course. They think they will benefit from their loyalty. That is a vain hope, but it won't stop them from stupidly chanting the party line, thinking they look clever, and attacking people who were victimized, while Craptic takes their money to the bank with no intention of any consideration for their player base.

    Of course, it sounds like most of the white knights are really plants in the community to support the fluffy bull****.
  • imruinedimruined Member Posts: 1,457 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    raeat wrote: »
    ... a thoroughly scumbag move specifically devised and intended to victimize the players ...

    ... the last second ambush is very deliberately malicious ...

    Right, Cryptic are going out of their way to TRIBBLE off the entire player base, like that's a sound business strategy... Seriously dude, you need to get a grip, because if you're really this worked up, I think you need professional help at this point...

    Nothing that has happened in STO is really that big a deal in the real world, though to listen to your rants, I'm surprised you haven't likened Cryptic to some totalitarian despotism, while painting yourself as the next Guy Fawkes...

    Time to get a grip... Really...
    raeat wrote: »
    .
    ... what you work for, based on promises ...

    ... White knights and other brown nosers ...

    Same old hyperbole... Cryptic have promised you NOTHING... Notta... Zilch... Zip...

    You have not been robbed, filched or pilfered from... You are playing a FREE game, which is still a FREE game... The only difference, it's not quite as free as it was a week ago to only a small handful of, very vocal and often very entitled, players...
    raeat wrote: »
    ... attacking people who were victimized ...

    This was just hilarious coming from you considering your posts drip with bile, vitriol and are packed with all manner of insults towards not only Cryptic, but ANYONE who disagrees with you on even the slightest point...

    I've got a good one for you, which I'm pretty sure I've thrown your way once already... You ready for this?

    H - Y - P - O - C - R - I - T - E
    raeat wrote: »
    ... the white knights are really plants in the community to support the fluffy bull**** ...

    You're absolutely right... In fact, I'm expecting a hefty paycheck from Cryptic any day now...

    You are beyond foolish...
    The entitlement is strong in these forums...

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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Hello Community,
    hello Devs,

    I’m Connor and I am mark hoarder.

    I understand that I am guilty of hoarding and need to be punished. Despite the lack of bonus I decided to turn them all in over the weekend in between 4hour doffing intervals and I now sit on 2,7 million dil spread over 8 characters.

    I can assure you that I learned my lesson and that I will never hoard marks ever again. Unfortunately I won’t do anything else in STO either aside from refining dil till early April. Thank you very much for being so kind and for not having me wait till May before I may resume my play.

    - Connor
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  • swamarianswamarian Member Posts: 1,506 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    imruined wrote: »
    Something tells me this site is potential bull****... Especially since I can jump in there and post a review of my employment experience, without having to verify a single thing about what I'm posting, when not an employee...

    The comments do fit their observed behavior. Look at the upgrade system. While it was on tribble, people were making lists after every update of what could be upgraded and what couldn't. They were talking with the developers.
    Then it went live, with problems upgrading probably the 3 most popular items (kinetic cutting beam, assimilated console, zero point energy console). It really looks like what matters most is hitting the schedule.

    Back to the topic on hand, the impression I got from the dev comments is that they want bonus events to only apply to stuff done during the bonus event. (No waiting to turn in reputations, or marks.) There was a bonus event during the last Crystalline Catastrophe event, and I managed to finish the previous CE during the bonus weekend. They'll need to be careful scheduling things to keep that from happening again. (Or not. They should, though.)
  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I hope no one complaining about losing their 15 second cash in bonus ever complained about people who want things NAO! and can't be bothered to wait for something.

    The hour long project is available year round and has similar mark:dil rates.

    The irony would just be too sweet.
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  • aoax10aoax10 Member Posts: 271 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    swamarian wrote: »
    The comments do fit their observed behavior. Look at the upgrade system. While it was on tribble, people were making lists after every update of what could be upgraded and what couldn't. They were talking with the developers.
    Then it went live, with problems upgrading probably the 3 most popular items (kinetic cutting beam, assimilated console, zero point energy console). It really looks like what matters most is hitting the schedule.

    Back to the topic on hand, the impression I got from the dev comments is that they want bonus events to only apply to stuff done during the bonus event. (No waiting to turn in reputations, or marks.) There was a bonus event during the last Crystalline Catastrophe event, and I managed to finish the previous CE during the bonus weekend. They'll need to be careful scheduling things to keep that from happening again. (Or not. They should, though.)

    Let the deniers be deniers and the brown get browner. Here is a recent one (February 7th) from a current employee from PWE even mentioning the new guy. It pretty much sums up everything going on to the point PWE employees have issues with upper staff:

    http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Perfect-World-Entertainment-RVW5868494.htm

    http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n207/10xKing/Cryptic3.png
  • linyivelinyive Member Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Do you know how to fix the issue? Reconstitute the daily and hourly calender events. Its really that simple. Daily calender events made 'Star Trek: Online' feel 'live' and 'alive'. Whenever everyone gathered at a particular spot and time, the game felt as though it was an episode of "Star Trek". Outside of removing the daily calender events, the second downfall was removing the functionality of the Omega office.

    Collecting particle tracers hour, history trivia hour, mirror universe hour, crafting discount hour, and marks bonus hour were just awesome. Randomness of these time events made the game feel alive.

    Once the weekend events surfaced, people felt a sense of appreciation and accomplishment.

    I would sacrifice the 'seasonal events' for the 'daily calender events' on any day. If Cryptic wanted to include the seasonal events, they could just integrate them into the daily calendar events.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    aoax10 wrote: »
    Let the deniers be deniers and the brown get browner. Here is a recent one (February 7th) from a current employee from PWE even mentioning the new guy. It pretty much sums up everything going on to the point PWE employees have issues with upper staff:

    http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Perfect-World-Entertainment-RVW5868494.htm

    http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n207/10xKing/Cryptic3.png
    That doesn't read like it was written by an employee at all. also it seems to conflate "Community manager" with a development manager...

    I'd say it's probably a hoax.
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