Feed back pulse great! One of the most balanced skills in the game.
No matter how much firepower and power creep, FBP will always have a role. 80k DPS? No problem... Surgical Strikes BS, no problem it's just a free kill.
People can't just stop firing. I haven't met an energy using escort yet that didn't die doing a 1vs1 with me. FACT.
Nearly a 100% crit rate for a fully buffed FBP. My only suggestion cryptic should double the FBP damage when beams hit... To be honest FBP should only work against beams.
There's just too much damage flying around, they need to release a Duty Officer that allows FBP to reflect torpedo damage... This will counter that neutronic torpedo. For balance reasons the doff will disable energy feedback and trade it for kinetic.
Very important to have solid counters in a game...
but there is a way to reflect torpedoes.
It's called Multidimensional Wave-Function Analysis Module, also known as my favorite console ever for my favorite ship.
the last time FBP was balanced was season 8, before the super boosted crafting exotic damage buff. 1 CRF cycle, and ever using FAW, should never be a death sentence, you cant be serious saying post season 8 FBP is balanced.
Its not balanced. first time i seen it getting bad was some guy/girl named kax, used it all the time, and that was before all the new part gen TRIBBLE and manipulator thing.
Yes a high DPS powered escort and deal mass damage on a mass BO strike, but it doesnt happen every shot. However someone with high FBP build that gets hit with a high DPS escort, it will damn near one shot you everytime,,,you see a guy, maybe hes taken some damage so you target him,,pop an alpha, TT, omega, rapid fire, BO 3,,,smash the spacebar, and you crit on top of that, you see that blue pulse come back and watch your hull lose 80% just from the DBB shot,,thats not including the cycle of CRF from your 3 DHCs and turrets that came out after the DBB shot.
And that is 100% of the time.
I do not 100% of the time, just instavape someone with BO in my escort,,,hell actually now i miss quite often even with an accx4 elachi DBB, and even when i hit i have noticed many a time that i barely put a scratch in the guy even though i popped almost every buff i had.
Its not balanced. first time i seen it getting bad was some guy/girl named kax, used it all the time, and that was before all the new part gen TRIBBLE and manipulator thing.
kax was great! and i saw him mostly in that season 8 era or before, didn't see him much after season 9 and his thing got buffed to hell.
thats what i think of, when i think of balanced FBP. putting everything into maxing it, and the amount of effort or clumsiness needed to actually kill yourself with it, it was just right.
Yes a high DPS powered escort and deal mass damage on a mass BO strike, but it doesnt happen every shot. However someone with high FBP build that gets hit with a high DPS escort, it will damn near one shot you everytime,,,you see a guy, maybe hes taken some damage so you target him,,pop an alpha, TT, omega, rapid fire, BO 3,,,smash the spacebar, and you crit on top of that, you see that blue pulse come back and watch your hull lose 80% just from the DBB shot,,thats not including the cycle of CRF from your 3 DHCs and turrets that came out after the DBB shot.
And that is 100% of the time.
I do not 100% of the time, just instavape someone with BO in my escort,,,hell actually now i miss quite often even with an accx4 elachi DBB, and even when i hit i have noticed many a time that i barely put a scratch in the guy even though i popped almost every buff i had.
energy weapon damage has a certain honor and fairness to it. it doesn't exploit and bypass root level ship defense, you actually have to deal with shields. you actually have an entire 3rd subsystem you have to max with power if you want to deal damage with it.
everything else is cheese, exploity, and generally without honor. but, wasn't game ruining as long as its effectiveness magnitudes weren't to high. and the last time that was, was season 8. the sci caps will deny it though, because they have a chip on their shoulder over imagined slights, and think their sci ships should be the best at getting kills, having the highest scoreboard numbers, best tanks, beast healers, basically the best everything. and you know what? they got their way! check every box, they are the best at it now.
the last time FBP was balanced was season 8, before the super boosted crafting exotic damage buff. 1 CRF cycle, and ever using FAW, should never be a death sentence, you cant be serious saying post season 8 FBP is balanced.
Well video i linked was with with footage from a year ago. before R&D, on tac ship, half aux and i had no partigen consoles, 5 people shooting at me. I activate it in right time. Balanced.
Now, of course everything involving partigens is now OP, but FBP to much less extent then TBR or Iso.
Well video i linked was with with footage from a year ago. before R&D, on tac ship, half aux and i had no partigen consoles, 5 people shooting at me. I activate it in right time. Balanced.
Now, of course everything involving partigens is now OP, but FBP to much less extent then TBR or Iso.
ah, well you said 'are' balanced, so i was confused.
kax is so nice LOL, said "YUo bEAt KAX, yoU PoWerFUl!", I cant tell you all what a breath of fresh air it is to do a 1v1 and the person to compliment you on the hard fought win and not SPIT in your eye for winning, or blame CHEESE, or this or that
We all loved kax...infuriating sometimes, but kax was kax, and she apprently loved my british accent, if she was a she and not a he using a voice modulator thingy - m bob, i remeber trying a vape build out on tvaro, insta-poping kax laughin so hard that actually managed to do it without killing myself...but kax never did let hit happen again with a vaper, she caught on.
FBP builds were always a joy, you had to time it right to kill those bad boys. I'm a miscreant though...and always provoke people...it means i like them
Is it me or is Feedback Pulse more deadly than ever. Any idiot with a feedback pulse can now kill an escort in alpha strike.
It does not even seem to matter wether or not they spec into Part Gen. With escorts getting so much more destructive I can see the need for balancing but my escort has been dying within it's first strike of surg strikes 3 or crf 2
I get the whole idea of this game developing and so is always a work in progress but surely an escort instapopping itself is a little mad.
Still loving the game tho. Congrats on the new boff training, the ui is much clearer.
Shakti
It should never be easy to take out a fbp'er, they're a thorns build. Brute force will get you no where.
But one good way is to shutdown, disable them. Failing that option, you need to bluff them into using either fbp3 or 2, circle away, waiting for it to clear, then heading back in buffing up, opening fire. You should have about 30 secs between fbp 3 and 2. Git gud.
If one could just DPS their way through fbp.. well what would be the point of that ?
Leave science as is. Alpha will still rule the day.
yep noticed in chat, wile i was doing that new story mission, the only reason to log on to sto anymore.
exotic damage now has a tac console! it is to laugh! im sure it wont work great with TBR pull or anything too.
Well, with it stating "Bonus" - should work more like a permanent kind of APO/EPtW sort of thing for Exotic damage.
So some with their Conductive [PartG], their Exciter [PartG], their various Rom PartG (working in that [Pla] mod with their +Beam Exploiter (cause of the +CrtD for the +CrtH from Particle Manipulator) consoles), working in this, working in that...and hrmm, could make for some interesting math, eh?
edit: Also guessing they haven't fixed the 3pc Contractual yet, so Shields Heals each can knock 5s off the CD of FBP dropping it down to its minimum CD.
Well, with it stating "Bonus" - should work more like a permanent kind of APO/EPtW sort of thing for Exotic damage.
So some with their Conductive [PartG], their Exciter [PartG], their various Rom PartG (working in that [Pla] mod with their +Beam Exploiter (cause of the +CrtD for the +CrtH from Particle Manipulator) consoles), working in this, working in that...and hrmm, could make for some interesting math, eh?
edit: Also guessing they haven't fixed the 3pc Contractual yet, so Shields Heals each can knock 5s off the CD of FBP dropping it down to its minimum CD.
a bonus
not strength boost
you cant be serious
they couldn't have actually done that, right?
a permanent, what was it, 23% final multiplier? how many hundred partical gen is that worth?
they literally want to make TBR as good as faw in pve, due to sci ships having pretty much no useful place in pve, case they cant FAW very hard. this is a pvp architecture game with pve tacked on, were only DPS maters and the npcs aren't complex enough for debuffs to effect them.
npcs aren't complex enough for debuffs to effect them
npcs aren't complex enough for debuffs to effect them
only DPS maters
npcs aren't complex enough for debuffs to effect them
npcs aren't complex enough for debuffs to effect them
npcs aren't complex enough for debuffs to effect them
the way to make sci ships useful is to buff exotic damage! /cryptic
I haven't actually tested it, haven't bound it yet, since I'm dorking around in my APU named Borg Sprocket, lol. But yeah, it states "+23.7% Bonus Exotic Damage" on the tooltip and in more info. Didn't see anything stating it was supposed to, so not sure it actually does or anything...could probably copy the toon to Tribble and check.
I haven't actually tested it, haven't bound it yet, since I'm dorking around in my APU named Borg Sprocket, lol. But yeah, it states "+23.7% Bonus Exotic Damage" on the tooltip and in more info. Didn't see anything stating it was supposed to, so not sure it actually does or anything...could probably copy the toon to Tribble and check.
my mission now is to make a partigen monster scimi. could wipe wave 10 NWS, or 4 players or CSE shipyard with 150 prtg thalaron. I need to see what max prtg does.
my mission now is to make a partigen monster scimi. could wipe wave 10 NWS, or 4 players or CSE shipyard with 150 prtg thalaron. I need to see what max prtg does.
LOL. yeah i know, i saw patch notes on thursday.
Just wanted to illustrate the powah with so low prtg.
I need to see the scaling that 500 prtg and +25% bonus would do. i had around 90-100k firing base on tac and 75k on sci in thalaron firing situations.
Fantastic thread. Really. The last time I played pvp seriously in a sciship (I never did get the hang on it, I am after all an Escortpilot since day 1) was before LoR and even then you could destroy a JHAS (at that time the pinnacle of escorttech, never got one though, after all, skill is far more important than nuances in ships or gear) within 5sec if it was stupid enough to believe it could instakill you with its alpha.
So, now you can kill them within 2sec. Whats the big deal? All the time I hear "we want sci buffed", now they buffed sci -albeit in the most primitive way possible, and only sci-BOs not Sci-Captains- changing nothing about the basic mechanics.
Now lets be honest, with all the DPS/Spike-increase the last year brought, do you really think it would make a difference if FBP would work like in S7? Or S6? It is more likely that you wouldnt feel the difference, because the potential damageincrease alone is more than enough to fry an escort by itself. Sure, its not very like more than 100% could be deflected back (though you could resonate it with your shields before firing the puls back), but in the end it would be the same in green.
We all have to deal with the simple truth that STO will never get back to being balanced, it will be a long grind, it will have lots of bugs and it will have lots of lags. The viable builds in pve and pvp keep decreasing and as long as cryptic cant make profit from balance, they wont even think about changing anything.
Fantastic thread. Really. The last time I played pvp seriously in a sciship (I never did get the hang on it, I am after all an Escortpilot since day 1) was before LoR and even then you could destroy a JHAS (at that time the pinnacle of escorttech, never got one though, after all, skill is far more important than nuances in ships or gear) within 5sec if it was stupid enough to believe it could instakill you with its alpha.
Yeah if the JHAS pilot was really bad or heavily debuffed, etc. In season 8 you wouldn't just be insta popped (or insta pop yourself) by a single firing cycle. Now sci captains can simply activate their FPB during a single firing cycle when the energy "bullets" haven't even hit and reflect 3 times the incoming damage back insta killing everything without any kind of counter.
Season 8 is basically the baseline when it comes to ballance. MK 14 weapons make everything a lot easier now anyways. A single fully buffed cannon cycle and your're dead. I see nobody using RSP anymore, because it simply doesn't do anything anymore, which is just another example of how the incoming damage is far greater then anything that can ever be outlasted in todays meta.
Yeah if the JHAS pilot was really bad or heavily debuffed, etc. In season 8 you wouldn't just be insta popped (or insta pop yourself) by a single firing cycle. Now sci captains can simply activate their FPB during a single firing cycle when the energy "bullets" haven't even hit and reflect 3 times the incoming damage back insta killing everything without any kind of counter.
Season 8 is basically the baseline when it comes to ballance. MK 14 weapons make everything a lot easier now anyways. A single fully buffed cannon cycle and your're dead. I see nobody using RSP anymore, because it simply doesn't do anything anymore, which is just another example of how the incoming damage is far greater then anything that can ever be outlasted in todays meta.
They aren't reflecting back 3 times the damage, you're DOING three times the damage because of how surgical strikes functions. That's not sci players fault, that's your fault. Don't go after sci players with SS, or wait until their FBP goes on cooldown. Or cloak gank them before it's up.
They aren't reflecting back 3 times the damage, you're DOING three times the damage because of how surgical strikes functions. That's not sci players fault, that's your fault. Don't go after sci players with SS, or wait until their FBP goes on cooldown. Or cloak gank them before it's up.
So in a first strike scenario i bascially have to be a vaper to surprise a sci captain ... now that's good game design.
Also, if you ever watched your FPB tooltip you can clearly see that the multiplier can get way beyond 100% reflection if you buff it right.
FBP needs to be buffed heavily... when those pesky npc's start shooting me and i activate FBP, it doesn't do a darn thing to them because they have little DPS.
in the end that's all that really matters. the devs don't give 2 cents about pvp so why even bother mentioning it.
soon, as is cryptics obvious plan, all the pvp'ers will be gone playing other games and PWE can continue on with endless power creep and nobody will complain because npc don't care. ^^
GG
Don't know why it says i'm an ARC user. i will never use that TRIBBLE Cryptic!
They aren't reflecting back 3 times the damage, you're DOING three times the damage because of how surgical strikes functions. That's not sci players fault, that's your fault. Don't go after sci players with SS, or wait until their FBP goes on cooldown. Or cloak gank them before it's up.
Well... basically you are right. Nobody forces anybody to shoot a FBP buffed ship, its not that the animation is hard to miss, also its pretty easy to simply move out of range.
It could be a problem with Aux2Bat and multiple copies and 100% uptime. Then you need a subnuke or good tanking on the attacking ships side (something vapers usually are not geared for).
Personally i loathe having copies of abilities and prefer diversity, but that is just me of course. Thats why i am always left a bit option less when i decide to go only guns forward (no dual beam bank, no torp) with dual tactical ships (basically any offensive build). Usually i go for the dual beam bank and a BO1 then (and rear mounted torps, yes, i know, i am odd). *rolls eyes*
I'd really like a bit more diversity here in the lower ability ranks, because there is nothing useful (if torp abilities are forgone and beam targeting you are basically left with tac team and if you don't want to double up on that you are sunk). I don't like it and it would help to make much builds less invincible (reverse shield polarity with 100% uptime is bad also if you are not playing sci).
That being said, its a defensive skill, not an offense one. It requires the opponent to make a tactical error, in this case destroying itself with its own, reflected damage.
It gets a little hilarious out there. I was taking my Vo'quv carrier for a ride and had a barrier field console on it (from the tier 3 Gorn science vessel, yeah ridicolous, i know). First i got accused playing "sci TRIBBLE", which, as i elaborated, was impossible because the char was a tac captain and then i had to clarify that it was NOT A VOTH PALISADE VESSEL. This is total panic.
2 weeks ago somebody shot me with an elachi beam bank on beam overload 3, okay and it PROCCED (2.5% chance) for total shield penetration. I ran Nanoprobe Feedback as a trait (10% chance to reflect any energy attack). Now the odds for this going together are astronomically low (about 0.25%), nevertheless he blew himself up. He just couldn't believe it...
People calm down, seriously. A lot of new stuff has been added. Yes there are balance problems (as if there were none before - yeah, right), yes there are bugs. On the have side we get two new ability sets (intel and command for boffs), that is GREAT. Yes, some of these abilities may be too strong or bugged, but the cards just got reshuffled. We got to sort this out at the least. As players. THEN call for the nerf club. But let it sink in a little.
And with the new anniversary cruiser you get the command set FOR FREE. FOR FREE! Yeah, that's right, it will take some time and a little grind (move to three locations once a day for 12 days) and get a shiny T6 present.
If you notice a problem, come here and tell us about it. Maybe it gets addressed, maybe not, maybe not soon. There will be discussions and people having different opinions. But that is the correct way to process it, okay, no sweat.
Calm down guys and if you really can't stand it take a break. Check back to see what has changed after a while, okay? All good?
For my part i appreciate all the work that has found its way into the game lately, even if the implementation needs fine tuning. So thanks, okay? I think with all this moaning its an important thing to say to the devs.
Don't think i do not realize a lot of ships that basically have been the pinnacle of the game are now not necessarily the hottest stuff around anymore. Deal with it. Other ships will come and in the end the additional abilities make a better game. The ships are still good. I pilot a Vo'quv for god's sake. That is usually not the ship that comes to mind as imbalanced, save viable. A MIRROR Vo'quv (noT5U, no upgrades. Yes, it runs new traits).
A lot of new stuff has been added!
*waves hands*
Not good?
I get good vibes. Good hunting, gentlemen.
They aren't reflecting back 3 times the damage, you're DOING three times the damage because of how surgical strikes functions. That's not sci players fault, that's your fault. Don't go after sci players with SS, or wait until their FBP goes on cooldown. Or cloak gank them before it's up.
it doesn't mater if your using CRF, FAW or SS. FBP, with enough particles, can be buffing up to send back 3 times the damage it receives. what it sends back also has 50% shield pen on top of that, this is why a single fireing cycle can kill you now, shot at a max particle sci ship.
It is strong (FBP3+particle gen+captain skill), maybe broken-strong, but... if you put armor on your ship, with the right abilities you can migrate that - maybe not constantly but maybe long enough. 70% damage resistance for a few seconds is not exactly witchcraft.
Its not a good strategy going in guns blazing against a FBP, full blown vulnerability exploiter, BO3, rapid fire cannons, no armor and no defensive abilities, nor should it be.
Of course... it depends ultimately what the ship can throw at you besides that.
FBP needs to be buffed heavily... when those pesky npc's start shooting me and i activate FBP, it doesn't do a darn thing to them because they have little DPS.
in the end that's all that really matters. the devs don't give 2 cents about pvp so why even bother mentioning it.
soon, as is cryptics obvious plan, all the pvp'ers will be gone playing other games and PWE can continue on with endless power creep and nobody will complain because npc don't care. ^^
GG
It's their APS (Attacks Per Second)...NPCs use Server Hamsters to activate their weapons.
These were the APS for the five guys in an ISA run yesterday:
Player A) 8.015
Player 7.692
Player C) 4.789
Player D) 4.201
Player E) 3.767
6 NPCs had APS between 2 and 2.2; 11 had APS between 1.5 and <2; 2 had APS between 1 and <1.5; 1 had APS between 0.5 and <1; 4 had APS between 0.25 and <0.5; while 8 had APS below 0.25...
Like the Gateway for example, had an average damage of 1950.146 with 0.961 APS while there was a player near that average damage with 1750.319 that had 7.692 APS. There was a player doing 5490.01 average damage that had 4.789 APS (and that's with them dying three times).
But Virus, the devs did it for the total of the NPCs...right?
Here's that list again with the incoming APS from the NPCS after the slash:
Player A) 8.015 / 0.707
Player 7.692 / 3.35
Player C) 4.789 / 1.777
Player D) 4.201 / 0.158
Player E) 3.767 / 0.628
That's 28.464 total APS for the players vs. 6.62 for the NPCs. That's around a 4.3:1 ratio.
It's why PVE is little more than a monster farm ran to see how fast it can be run and why so much other than DPS is a "waste"...
...imho.
edit: Here's the comparison between players and NPCS for that 180k run out there.
Players: 66.85
NPCs: 11.382
Around a 5.87:1 ratio...
edit2: Going back to that pug ISA group and looking at BaseDamage...
Players: 27,615,930, avg 687.423 to 3990.594 base damage
NPCs: 9,746,068, avg 1886.771 to 2506.884 base damage
Those 180k guys...
Players: 12,281,098, avg 834.553 to 4969.257 base damage
NPCs: 1,878,145, avg 1081.125 to 4834.019 base damage
edit3: Wait, this is a bit off to the side...but Virus? 12.2m vs. 27.6m?
Yeah, and don't forget the APS. 66.85 for the 180k run vs. 28.464 for my pug group.
But about that Base Damage stuff...
180k Players: 12,281,098 and 25,000,490 actual. ~203.57% the base.
PUG Players: 27,615,930 base and 37,414,446 actual. ~135.48% the base.
180k Players: 4469 attacks, 2748.06 avg base, 5594.2 avg actual
PUG Players: 19391 attacks, 1424.16 avg base, 1929.47 avg actual
My group had ~42.58% the APS, ~433.9% the attacks, ~51.82% the avg base damage, ~34.49% the avg actual damage, ~34.26% the debuffing.
The 180k guys had a 68s run. The pug had a 682s run.
edit?: So yeah, when players go shooting at one another - there are going to be all sorts of different results. Some will be "oh that tickles, teehee" and some will be eating a respawn.
Comments
but there is a way to reflect torpedoes.
It's called Multidimensional Wave-Function Analysis Module, also known as my favorite console ever for my favorite ship.
Its not balanced. first time i seen it getting bad was some guy/girl named kax, used it all the time, and that was before all the new part gen TRIBBLE and manipulator thing.
Yes a high DPS powered escort and deal mass damage on a mass BO strike, but it doesnt happen every shot. However someone with high FBP build that gets hit with a high DPS escort, it will damn near one shot you everytime,,,you see a guy, maybe hes taken some damage so you target him,,pop an alpha, TT, omega, rapid fire, BO 3,,,smash the spacebar, and you crit on top of that, you see that blue pulse come back and watch your hull lose 80% just from the DBB shot,,thats not including the cycle of CRF from your 3 DHCs and turrets that came out after the DBB shot.
And that is 100% of the time.
I do not 100% of the time, just instavape someone with BO in my escort,,,hell actually now i miss quite often even with an accx4 elachi DBB, and even when i hit i have noticed many a time that i barely put a scratch in the guy even though i popped almost every buff i had.
kax was great! and i saw him mostly in that season 8 era or before, didn't see him much after season 9 and his thing got buffed to hell.
thats what i think of, when i think of balanced FBP. putting everything into maxing it, and the amount of effort or clumsiness needed to actually kill yourself with it, it was just right.
energy weapon damage has a certain honor and fairness to it. it doesn't exploit and bypass root level ship defense, you actually have to deal with shields. you actually have an entire 3rd subsystem you have to max with power if you want to deal damage with it.
everything else is cheese, exploity, and generally without honor. but, wasn't game ruining as long as its effectiveness magnitudes weren't to high. and the last time that was, was season 8. the sci caps will deny it though, because they have a chip on their shoulder over imagined slights, and think their sci ships should be the best at getting kills, having the highest scoreboard numbers, best tanks, beast healers, basically the best everything. and you know what? they got their way! check every box, they are the best at it now.
Well video i linked was with with footage from a year ago. before R&D, on tac ship, half aux and i had no partigen consoles, 5 people shooting at me. I activate it in right time. Balanced.
Now, of course everything involving partigens is now OP, but FBP to much less extent then TBR or Iso.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
ah, well you said 'are' balanced, so i was confused.
yep noticed in chat, wile i was doing that new story mission, the only reason to log on to sto anymore.
exotic damage now has a tac console! it is to laugh! im sure it wont work great with TBR pull or anything too.
We all loved kax...infuriating sometimes, but kax was kax, and she apprently loved my british accent, if she was a she and not a he using a voice modulator thingy - m bob, i remeber trying a vape build out on tvaro, insta-poping kax laughin so hard that actually managed to do it without killing myself...but kax never did let hit happen again with a vaper, she caught on.
FBP builds were always a joy, you had to time it right to kill those bad boys. I'm a miscreant though...and always provoke people...it means i like them
Lag Industries Executive - Fleet Project Management
PvP Boot Camp Coach
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/channel_join OrganizedPvP
It should never be easy to take out a fbp'er, they're a thorns build. Brute force will get you no where.
But one good way is to shutdown, disable them. Failing that option, you need to bluff them into using either fbp3 or 2, circle away, waiting for it to clear, then heading back in buffing up, opening fire. You should have about 30 secs between fbp 3 and 2. Git gud.
If one could just DPS their way through fbp.. well what would be the point of that ?
Leave science as is. Alpha will still rule the day.
Well, with it stating "Bonus" - should work more like a permanent kind of APO/EPtW sort of thing for Exotic damage.
So some with their Conductive [PartG], their Exciter [PartG], their various Rom PartG (working in that [Pla] mod with their +Beam Exploiter (cause of the +CrtD for the +CrtH from Particle Manipulator) consoles), working in this, working in that...and hrmm, could make for some interesting math, eh?
edit: Also guessing they haven't fixed the 3pc Contractual yet, so Shields Heals each can knock 5s off the CD of FBP dropping it down to its minimum CD.
a bonus
not strength boost
you cant be serious
they couldn't have actually done that, right?
a permanent, what was it, 23% final multiplier? how many hundred partical gen is that worth?
they literally want to make TBR as good as faw in pve, due to sci ships having pretty much no useful place in pve, case they cant FAW very hard. this is a pvp architecture game with pve tacked on, were only DPS maters and the npcs aren't complex enough for debuffs to effect them.
npcs aren't complex enough for debuffs to effect them
npcs aren't complex enough for debuffs to effect them
only DPS maters
npcs aren't complex enough for debuffs to effect them
npcs aren't complex enough for debuffs to effect them
npcs aren't complex enough for debuffs to effect them
the way to make sci ships useful is to buff exotic damage! /cryptic
THEY WANT MOAR DEE PEE ESSS!
Lag Industries Executive - Fleet Project Management
PvP Boot Camp Coach
STO - Will PvP For Food - Official OPVP Channel <-Click Me
/channel_join OrganizedPvP
my mission now is to make a partigen monster scimi. could wipe wave 10 NWS, or 4 players or CSE shipyard with 150 prtg thalaron. I need to see what max prtg does.
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ive got some bad news for you
That was cruel, but yeah I laughed.
Tulwar would be easy to use to make your monster.
I should get into pvp with a fleet Oberth. Get a macro that shouts "YOU TRIGGERED MY TRAP CARD!" into zone chat when fbp kills someone.
LOL. yeah i know, i saw patch notes on thursday.
Just wanted to illustrate the powah with so low prtg.
I need to see the scaling that 500 prtg and +25% bonus would do. i had around 90-100k firing base on tac and 75k on sci in thalaron firing situations.
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We are Travelers
So, now you can kill them within 2sec. Whats the big deal? All the time I hear "we want sci buffed", now they buffed sci -albeit in the most primitive way possible, and only sci-BOs not Sci-Captains- changing nothing about the basic mechanics.
Now lets be honest, with all the DPS/Spike-increase the last year brought, do you really think it would make a difference if FBP would work like in S7? Or S6? It is more likely that you wouldnt feel the difference, because the potential damageincrease alone is more than enough to fry an escort by itself. Sure, its not very like more than 100% could be deflected back (though you could resonate it with your shields before firing the puls back), but in the end it would be the same in green.
We all have to deal with the simple truth that STO will never get back to being balanced, it will be a long grind, it will have lots of bugs and it will have lots of lags. The viable builds in pve and pvp keep decreasing and as long as cryptic cant make profit from balance, they wont even think about changing anything.
Yeah if the JHAS pilot was really bad or heavily debuffed, etc. In season 8 you wouldn't just be insta popped (or insta pop yourself) by a single firing cycle. Now sci captains can simply activate their FPB during a single firing cycle when the energy "bullets" haven't even hit and reflect 3 times the incoming damage back insta killing everything without any kind of counter.
Season 8 is basically the baseline when it comes to ballance. MK 14 weapons make everything a lot easier now anyways. A single fully buffed cannon cycle and your're dead. I see nobody using RSP anymore, because it simply doesn't do anything anymore, which is just another example of how the incoming damage is far greater then anything that can ever be outlasted in todays meta.
They aren't reflecting back 3 times the damage, you're DOING three times the damage because of how surgical strikes functions. That's not sci players fault, that's your fault. Don't go after sci players with SS, or wait until their FBP goes on cooldown. Or cloak gank them before it's up.
So in a first strike scenario i bascially have to be a vaper to surprise a sci captain ... now that's good game design.
Also, if you ever watched your FPB tooltip you can clearly see that the multiplier can get way beyond 100% reflection if you buff it right.
in the end that's all that really matters. the devs don't give 2 cents about pvp so why even bother mentioning it.
soon, as is cryptics obvious plan, all the pvp'ers will be gone playing other games and PWE can continue on with endless power creep and nobody will complain because npc don't care. ^^
GG
Well... basically you are right. Nobody forces anybody to shoot a FBP buffed ship, its not that the animation is hard to miss, also its pretty easy to simply move out of range.
It could be a problem with Aux2Bat and multiple copies and 100% uptime. Then you need a subnuke or good tanking on the attacking ships side (something vapers usually are not geared for).
Personally i loathe having copies of abilities and prefer diversity, but that is just me of course. Thats why i am always left a bit option less when i decide to go only guns forward (no dual beam bank, no torp) with dual tactical ships (basically any offensive build). Usually i go for the dual beam bank and a BO1 then (and rear mounted torps, yes, i know, i am odd). *rolls eyes*
I'd really like a bit more diversity here in the lower ability ranks, because there is nothing useful (if torp abilities are forgone and beam targeting you are basically left with tac team and if you don't want to double up on that you are sunk). I don't like it and it would help to make much builds less invincible (reverse shield polarity with 100% uptime is bad also if you are not playing sci).
That being said, its a defensive skill, not an offense one. It requires the opponent to make a tactical error, in this case destroying itself with its own, reflected damage.
It gets a little hilarious out there. I was taking my Vo'quv carrier for a ride and had a barrier field console on it (from the tier 3 Gorn science vessel, yeah ridicolous, i know). First i got accused playing "sci TRIBBLE", which, as i elaborated, was impossible because the char was a tac captain and then i had to clarify that it was NOT A VOTH PALISADE VESSEL. This is total panic.
2 weeks ago somebody shot me with an elachi beam bank on beam overload 3, okay and it PROCCED (2.5% chance) for total shield penetration. I ran Nanoprobe Feedback as a trait (10% chance to reflect any energy attack). Now the odds for this going together are astronomically low (about 0.25%), nevertheless he blew himself up. He just couldn't believe it...
People calm down, seriously. A lot of new stuff has been added. Yes there are balance problems (as if there were none before - yeah, right), yes there are bugs. On the have side we get two new ability sets (intel and command for boffs), that is GREAT. Yes, some of these abilities may be too strong or bugged, but the cards just got reshuffled. We got to sort this out at the least. As players. THEN call for the nerf club. But let it sink in a little.
And with the new anniversary cruiser you get the command set FOR FREE. FOR FREE! Yeah, that's right, it will take some time and a little grind (move to three locations once a day for 12 days) and get a shiny T6 present.
If you notice a problem, come here and tell us about it. Maybe it gets addressed, maybe not, maybe not soon. There will be discussions and people having different opinions. But that is the correct way to process it, okay, no sweat.
Calm down guys and if you really can't stand it take a break. Check back to see what has changed after a while, okay? All good?
For my part i appreciate all the work that has found its way into the game lately, even if the implementation needs fine tuning. So thanks, okay? I think with all this moaning its an important thing to say to the devs.
Don't think i do not realize a lot of ships that basically have been the pinnacle of the game are now not necessarily the hottest stuff around anymore. Deal with it. Other ships will come and in the end the additional abilities make a better game. The ships are still good. I pilot a Vo'quv for god's sake. That is usually not the ship that comes to mind as imbalanced, save viable. A MIRROR Vo'quv (noT5U, no upgrades. Yes, it runs new traits).
A lot of new stuff has been added!
*waves hands*
Not good?
I get good vibes. Good hunting, gentlemen.
it doesn't mater if your using CRF, FAW or SS. FBP, with enough particles, can be buffing up to send back 3 times the damage it receives. what it sends back also has 50% shield pen on top of that, this is why a single fireing cycle can kill you now, shot at a max particle sci ship.
Its not a good strategy going in guns blazing against a FBP, full blown vulnerability exploiter, BO3, rapid fire cannons, no armor and no defensive abilities, nor should it be.
Of course... it depends ultimately what the ship can throw at you besides that.
It's their APS (Attacks Per Second)...NPCs use Server Hamsters to activate their weapons.
These were the APS for the five guys in an ISA run yesterday:
Player A) 8.015
Player
Player C) 4.789
Player D) 4.201
Player E) 3.767
6 NPCs had APS between 2 and 2.2; 11 had APS between 1.5 and <2; 2 had APS between 1 and <1.5; 1 had APS between 0.5 and <1; 4 had APS between 0.25 and <0.5; while 8 had APS below 0.25...
Like the Gateway for example, had an average damage of 1950.146 with 0.961 APS while there was a player near that average damage with 1750.319 that had 7.692 APS. There was a player doing 5490.01 average damage that had 4.789 APS (and that's with them dying three times).
But Virus, the devs did it for the total of the NPCs...right?
Here's that list again with the incoming APS from the NPCS after the slash:
Player A) 8.015 / 0.707
Player
Player C) 4.789 / 1.777
Player D) 4.201 / 0.158
Player E) 3.767 / 0.628
That's 28.464 total APS for the players vs. 6.62 for the NPCs. That's around a 4.3:1 ratio.
It's why PVE is little more than a monster farm ran to see how fast it can be run and why so much other than DPS is a "waste"...
...imho.
edit: Here's the comparison between players and NPCS for that 180k run out there.
Players: 66.85
NPCs: 11.382
Around a 5.87:1 ratio...
edit2: Going back to that pug ISA group and looking at BaseDamage...
Players: 27,615,930, avg 687.423 to 3990.594 base damage
NPCs: 9,746,068, avg 1886.771 to 2506.884 base damage
Those 180k guys...
Players: 12,281,098, avg 834.553 to 4969.257 base damage
NPCs: 1,878,145, avg 1081.125 to 4834.019 base damage
edit3: Wait, this is a bit off to the side...but Virus? 12.2m vs. 27.6m?
Yeah, and don't forget the APS. 66.85 for the 180k run vs. 28.464 for my pug group.
But about that Base Damage stuff...
180k Players: 12,281,098 and 25,000,490 actual. ~203.57% the base.
PUG Players: 27,615,930 base and 37,414,446 actual. ~135.48% the base.
180k Players: 4469 attacks, 2748.06 avg base, 5594.2 avg actual
PUG Players: 19391 attacks, 1424.16 avg base, 1929.47 avg actual
My group had ~42.58% the APS, ~433.9% the attacks, ~51.82% the avg base damage, ~34.49% the avg actual damage, ~34.26% the debuffing.
The 180k guys had a 68s run. The pug had a 682s run.
edit?: So yeah, when players go shooting at one another - there are going to be all sorts of different results. Some will be "oh that tickles, teehee" and some will be eating a respawn.
Well, at least I've learned that much.