Make Sto a true space combat game

omega657

Dear devs , seeing as its the 5th anniversary of STO i would to ask the devs to consider a major overhaul of the space combat mechanics in the game , to improve the immersion factor and make me feel like a starship captain. instead of a button masher.

Point 1: MAKE STARSHIPS TRUE 3D OBJECTS IN A 3D UNIVERSE

The issue I have with STO in its current form is that the game breaks any immersion factor when i point the starship up or down in extreme angles during space combat and then i run smack into a invisible wall as my ship refuses to do a vertical flip and then i am reminded that its just a game afterall .
This really bugs me as starships should be the epitome of 3D motion. If planes in warthunder can do belly flops or climb straight vertical when the pilots command it , then surely starship captains should be able to make their starships do the same as well in STO????
This wold also make space combat much more enjoyable and immersive experience as well as make combat more fluid.

Point 2: WEAPONS TYPES SHOULD HAVE MORE DISTINCT CHARACTERISTICS

Point 3: Energy types need to give more serious side effects to enemy targets

The proc chance for most of the energy type are just too low imo , and the procs of the certain energy types need a revamp to stay competitive in the new meta ie tetryon

Point 4:Make torps more effective

Point 5: Give enemy mobs better AI and abilities instead of hull points and shield buffs

Points 6 : science and engineering abilities need a revamp as well.

stelakkh

omega657 wrote: »

Dear devs , seeing as its the 5th anniversary of STO i would to ask the devs to consider a major overhaul of the space combat mechanics in the game , to improve the immersion factor and make me feel like a starship captain. instead of a button masher.

Point 1: MAKE STARSHIPS TRUE 3D OBJECTS IN A 3D UNIVERSE

The issue I have with STO in its current form is that the game breaks any immersion factor when i point the starship up or down in extreme angles during space combat and then i run smack into a invisible wall as my ship refuses to do a vertical flip and then i am reminded that its just a game afterall .
This really bugs me as starships should be the epitome of 3D motion. If planes in warthunder can do belly flops or climb straight vertical when the pilots command it , then surely starship captains should be able to make their starships do the same as well in STO????
This wold also make space combat much more enjoyable and immersive experience as well as make combat more fluid.

Point 2: WEAPONS TYPES SHOULD HAVE MORE DISTINCT CHARACTERISTICS

Point 3: Energy types need to give more serious side effects to enemy targets

The proc chance for most of the energy type are just too low imo , and the procs of the certain energy types need a revamp to stay competitive in the new meta ie tetryon

Point 4:Make torps more effective

Point 5: Give enemy mobs better AI and abilities instead of hull points and shield buffs

Points 6 : science and engineering abilities need a revamp as well.

I agree with all of this.

But right out of the box we have a problem: Item 1.

We asked for a true, 360 axis in space. We didn't get it. We're never going to get it. The game is designed on the Champions engine - a game engine developed for another game with a Trek skin shoehorned over it. It can't do 360.

In order for us to exist in a 360-degree world out in space, they'd have to start over from the ground up and design an engine that befits the franchise (something they didn't do 5 years ago because they wanted to rush to market in order to obtain a $20 million bonus from Atari (which, by the way, they didn't get).

We complained about the lack of - and asked for - 360 space in Beta. Five years later, we haven't got it. If this game is still around in 10 years, we still won't have 360 space in STO.

The day we have a true three hundred sixty degree world, with X, Y and Z axes in STO... on that day I will buy a lifetime subscription.

Since I'll never subscribe again to this game, I'm confident enough to make that statement.

rattler2

1: Limitations of the game engine.
2: What kind of characteristics?
3: With all the counters we have, probably wouldn't make a difference.
4: Never got smacked with a Neutronic Torp?
5: The Vaadwaur seem to have some interesting abilities. And the Tholians tend to be a pain.
6: What kind of revamp are you talking about? Stick an Engie in an Escort, you get a tanky Escort. I got a friend who main's a Sci, and he's downright lethal.

cabezadetortuga

I would love to have the option to fly my starships in a true 3D manner and point my starship straight up or down or even fly it upside down if I like.

I love flight simulators and other flight games, especially arcade-style combat ones. Personally, I have no problem maintaining my sense of direction while flying with a full range of motion.

One of my favorite game series of all time was the Rogue Squadron series for the N64 and Gamecube. I preferred flying in 1st-person mode (I used my weapons much more accurately in 1st-person mode and had better control of my ship). I also made sure to turn off all computer-controlled flight correction features, because I liked manual control.

I would play entire atmospheric missions while flying upside-down just for the fun of it.

I even had a friend watching me one day who said watching me fly a fighter around made him queasy and almost ready to vomit because of all the maneuvers I pulled.

So yeah, true 3D gets 1,000,000 X 1,000,000 + votes from me.

I second the OP's proposal with all of my video-game-loving heart.

ladymyajha

omega657 wrote: »

Dear devs , seeing as its the 5th anniversary of STO i would to ask the devs to consider a major overhaul of the space combat mechanics in the game , to improve the immersion factor and make me feel like a starship captain. instead of a button masher.

Point 1: MAKE STARSHIPS TRUE 3D OBJECTS IN A 3D UNIVERSE

The engine is 5 years old, and based off of the Champions Online Engine... 360 degree movement is something we've begged for years for, but it's an issue with the engine. Never gonna happen.

Point 2: WEAPONS TYPES SHOULD HAVE MORE DISTINCT CHARACTERISTICS

Kind of curious on what you're thinking here actually. I'd settle personally for the ones we had to actually work and be effective... and not only a couple of them working and being effective.

point 3: Energy types need to give more serious side effects to enemy targets
The proc chance for most of the energy type are just too low imo , and the procs of the certain energy types need a revamp to stay competitive in the new meta ie tetryon

I agree (see my answer to point 2)

point 4:Make torps more effective

Torps are effective... honestly you're using them wrong if you think they're not. Okay let me back track... some of them are quite effective... and some of them suck... kind of like your points 3. If you think all of them suck... you're using them wrong. If you think only certain of them suck... I agree as in your point 3 just applied to torps.

Point 5: Give enemy mobs better AI and abilities instead of hull points and shield buffs

We asked for that during DR beta... and were told no. It's too hard for the devs to do apparently with the caveat that if they did the whine on the forums about STO suddenly becoming too hard would cause the devs to get instantly drunk, roll the change back, and have wasted all that time upgrading the AI. Concidering the boards... I can kind of see their point.

Points 6 : science and engineering abilities need a revamp as well.

This goes back to your point 3. Some of these skills are out of this world fantastic. Some of them absolutly suck. This is due to either engine restrictions (like for example Grav Well using Kinetic Damage instead of a special damage type) or due to past nerfs that nerfed them into oblivion and the devs haven't rebuffed them to usefullness.

Basically your entire post just boils down to... the devs need to stop trying to give us fancy new toys that people really don't need... and do a serious 6 month pass bringing certain things up to the level of other similiar things and fixing bugs...

but since that would require Cryptic to like... not being the money grubbing devs that they are who try and wring every last dollar, pound, yen, and mark from your wallet and actually improve the game... it's never going to happen...

kamenriderzero1

if they gave us true 3d, about two seconds you would have the other side of the argument demanding a fixed plane of reference so they don't gen turned around and lost.

that and the "they changed something, the game is DOOMED!" people.

Seriously, they can not keep everyone happy all the time. that is practicily impossible.

rattler2

Heck... people complain about free stuff!

moonshadowdark

cabezadetortuga wrote: »

I would love to have the option to fly my starships in a true 3D manner and point my starship straight up or down or even fly it upside down if

That's scientifically impossible to do in space. Space has no gravity. Gravity is that natural indicator to you to which direction is up or down. Without gravity, you'd have no real indication which direction you're be flying. Add the fact that the blackness of space offers little points of reference as it's just a black void, you'd never even know whether you were right side up or not.

So that would truly be a pointless endeavor, not just mechanically, but scientifically.



THANK YOU, BILL NYE!

wildweasal

moonshadowdark wrote: »

That's scientifically impossible to do in space. Space has no gravity. Gravity is that natural indicator to you to which direction is up or down. Without gravity, you'd have no real indication which direction you're be flying. Add the fact that the blackness of space offers little points of reference as it's just a black void, you'd never even know whether you were right side up or not.

So that would truly be a pointless endeavor, not just mechanically, but scientifically.



THANK YOU, BILL NYE!

10000 times this!! Because I can assure you there are plenty of people who want to play it like it is with the fixed plane...... so please go play bridge commander something to just leave us alone

shadore

The federation didn't like fighting. The klingons liked fighting, the romulans liked spying, and the federation liked dealing with social issues. Remember the episode of TNG where Picard was tasked with kicking Indians off their planet but in a twist of irony he was related to a man who in the past had done something similar? How about all the religious emisary stuff Sisco did. I'm not saying your ideas wouldn't be fun, but I would disagree with your immersion comment. Except if you play as a klingon. If you do, then yes your idea would add to immersion.

kojirohellfire

stelakkh wrote: »

I agree with all of this.

But right out of the box we have a problem: Item 1.

We asked for a true, 360 axis in space. We didn't get it. We're never going to get it. The game is designed on the Champions engine - a game engine developed for another game with a Trek skin shoehorned over it. It can't do 360.

While we might not be able to technically do somersaults in the air in Champions, we most certainly do have full 3-dimensional movement in it. With my characters I can move straight up and straight down, I can move forward and backward and I can go side to side.

There's no good reason why the artificial limit on our starships' movement exists.

leceter

stelakkh wrote: »

We asked for a true, 360 axis in space. We didn't get it. We're never going to get it. The game is designed on the Champions engine - a game engine developed for another game with a Trek skin shoehorned over it. It can't do 360.

As a Day 1 Veteran, I know more about the axis part of your statement . I think, it's not entirely correct.

kamenriderzero1

for one thing that's not often touched upon, it's not exactly common in canon to have ship zipping around at all angles relative to each other. The galaxy is only about 2,000 Light years thick, which suddenly makes Kirk's trips to the "edge" in "Where No Man Has Gone Before..." and "By Any Other Name" make a whole lot more sense. in this frame, many destinations would not require what we would think as "Straight up and down"

the references to the Z-axis are rather limited. You have Kirk ordering the Enterprise to drop on it's Z axis (which was done on maneuvering thrusters in an emergency) to get the drop on Kahn.

and the alternate, Galaxy-X incarnation, of the 1701-D coming up at 90 degrees on the Klingon ships attacking the Pasture in "All Good Things..."

The thing about Trek ships is they are actually designed rather well for forward defense.

I have several small models on a shelf above my monitor, the closest to me being a standard configuration Enterprise-D made by Hot Wheels. Amoung the others are two JJ Connies (one clean, one battle damaged), (also hot wheels) a Normal connie (Micro Machines), a B'rel (hot wheels) a T'liss (micro machines), NX-01 (Johnny Lightning) and a 1701-A (Ertl).


These ships all present a rather limited forward profile, which helps protect you if you are giving less of a target to shoot at. Conversely, turn each of the models on it's end and you get a Bull's-eye right where you are sitting on the bridge.

Basically, in battle, presenting your dorsal or ventral surfaces (what 360 movement would let you do) is the LAST thing you want to do.

jellico1

rattler2 wrote: »

1: Limitations of the game engine.
2: What kind of characteristics?
3: With all the counters we have, probably wouldn't make a difference.
4: Never got smacked with a Neutronic Torp?
5: The Vaadwaur seem to have some interesting abilities. And the Tholians tend to be a pain.
6: What kind of revamp are you talking about? Stick an Engie in an Escort, you get a tanky Escort. I got a friend who main's a Sci, and he's downright lethal.

---

4., I think he means all Torps not torp of the month that will get nerfed because its broken with torp spread 3

5., Too bad those guys vare in content most players do not play because the content is poor

6. put a Tac in a escort or eng ship or a Tac in a sci ship your almost as tankie more sciency with 3x the dps or more

askray

skollulfr wrote: »

the engine is perfectly capable. its the players that arent. partly due to the lack of navigation information provided by the gui. space games have 3d radar maps as will as radial direction arrows. this game has a .jpg in the corner.

100% this. Dan commented years back about the fact that you can't go straight up or down. It was something they just aren't prepared to do because you RARELY saw them do it in the show, plus other things.

moonshadowdark

askray wrote: »

100% this. Dan commented years back about the fact that you can't go straight up or down. It was something they just aren't prepared to do because you RARELY saw them do it in the show, plus other things.

And because there is no up in space.