That would imply that folks want to learn/improve. It seems to me a lot of times people reject common sense and fly against it. Because most players are either clueless, too obstinate to change their style or worse, pugs have become almost unplayable for the majority of players after Cryptic implemented the new mandatory objectives.
I am a divergent. When I deal with real life based issues, I approach everything in a unconventional manner. As I play through video games, I try to solve issues from different angles. Abstract thinking.
Game trimmers don't allow players to think abstractly. Players should be cognitively challenged. When there was one objective trimmer, players were able to come up with a few different solutions. As a result of adding a second time based objective, players will complete maps while using the same method. Linear thinking.
If Cryptic truly wanted to challenge players, they would have made the stf maps dynamic. Other words, the maps should have three types of solutions.
Normal Solution - gives out 100 marks.
Advanced Solution - gives out 150 marks.
Elite Solution - gives out 200 marks.
Instead of making three difficulty maps, one map can be solved in three different ways. Players will have to determine which method to utilize.
Unconventional Solutions - gives out 250 marks for combining methods.
I disagree. Remaining stagnant will kill any MMO just as much as anything else.
Is there even stagnation?
Whenever I look at the top DPSers location, I see them in instance #20 Pariah/Bug Hunt Elite. When you look at the Bug Hunt Elite, Normal and advanced PuGs there is only 1 instance.
The same case with BDE. I see them at instance #44 of BDE but you only see #1 instance at BDN/BDA/BDE PuG windows.
Since cryptic has the numbers, and basing on what I see in game, all this complaint about lack of activity is basing it on what they see at PuG queues.
The status quo has changed. The in-game STO Community has shifted from PuGs to private queues.
There is no reason why the game cannot survive on Private queues when there is more benefits in private queues like the absence of leavers penalty. The game even encourages us to do so due to the lack of leaver penalty in private queues.
I've done IGA a number of times since DR and pulled it off with plenty of time to spare.
Teamwork and competence is all it takes. If you know your trigger lines, you are FINE. If everybody is carrying a long range rifle, you can do it. Of somebody is carrying a pulsewave or a pistol and can't fire at the enemy from the proper place, it's their fault if you lose time. You need their DPS to down the enemies quickly.
The STF grounds are a joke, 3 of us ran through them post DR, it was comically easy even though they've really upped the heavy and elite drone counts. Infected we did with swords no less, its 17x more fun, because crossing the line while the 2 PUGers think we are absolutely nuts is great.
I've never noticed Cure ground being so easy, with that many more HP you'd think it would take longer but it doesn't, turns out we were just starved for HP sinks before.
Oh pls, there are enough channels where you can find competend teammembers. If you have problems with mandatory optionals than just reevaluate your builds. Ships with more scientific approach where certainly "buffed" by DR, as they can keep the goals of a mission from not failing. The very same ships can also do quite the dps, making it the jack-of-all-trades for players who dont do 30k+.
Fact is, the missions didnt get harder. After you had a bit time to adapt to it, they go down nearly as fast as pre-DR. Even in Pugs.
PvP has died at leass 99 times in the last 3 years when you ask the pvp-crowd...
By your reasoning, a public Queue is no longer viable or needed. Content hidden behind player made channels is a far superior means of success. Since most new players will hit the public queues first, fail, and some will be lost to attrition via frustration, it is the best way to attract and maintain fresh blood in STO. Goatpoop!
I've never noticed Cure ground being so easy, with that many more HP you'd think it would take longer but it doesn't, turns out we were just starved for HP sinks before.
I've got to agree with you, in that Cure ground now seems to be a walk in the park. Less worker drones spawning on the first transformer, so you don't have to watch your back anymore, Armek now always dies before the poor guy gets to finish the second part of his speech.
no, the acceptable and _completely_avoidable_ chance of failure has made it infinitely more fun
it's something to try for (unless bugged, like sometimes borg disconnected)
what cleared the ques was the dilthium-upgrade-paywall past mk 12, most people just said "no thanks" and left the game or just did other things.
if regular mk 13 and mk 14 drops (greens or blues) had been implemented right from the start the game would have double the population it does today. and the ques would be hopping.
By your reasoning, a public Queue is no longer viable or needed. Content hidden behind player made channels is a far superior means of success. Since most new players will hit the public queues first, fail, and some will be lost to attrition via frustration, it is the best way to attract and maintain fresh blood in STO. Goatpoop!
Sry, I even pugged Korfez with success. It is possible even in pugs, but then you have to be able to pull more than just your weight. Thats not because the STFs are too hard, but because can join advanced/elite content even though they never did normal and have no idea, what to do, but trust that someone (like one of those evil dps-players) will carry them trough.
Sry, I even pugged Korfez with success. It is possible even in pugs, but then you have to be able to pull more than just your weight. Thats not because the STFs are too hard, but because can join advanced/elite content even though they never did normal and have no idea, what to do, but trust that someone (like one of those evil dps-players) will carry them trough.
Are you saying BDN is anything like BDA?
Learning on the Normals only gives you bad habits and wrong ideas for Advanced and Elite.
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okay, lets first get two things mixed here sorted:
first of all we are talking about doing adv with random generated groups! (some fleets are to small and even IF you recruit from public elite stf channel, you still need only ONE jerk only, to get a fail)
problem a) mandatory mission tasks ARE called "optionals" in (some) mission windows
-> that causes many players to not recognize the CHANGES into MANDATORY since DR and thus, failing them, maybe without bad intent. mayn players dont read forums or guides anyway, they didnt do it before dr and they wont start all of the sudden ;-) (prior to dr this only caused the group to loose maybe 10-25 marks, now this causes everyone to only get 10marks at all)
problem b) mandatory mission tasks vs "random" groups. basically having mandatory tasks after 5 years of "nevermind optionals" is a BAD sudden change, doesnt add up "hardness" into the stfs, just more "fail frustration" - also it only takes ONE JERK now to ruin everything for everyone.
i do think problem a) would be solvable, but problem b seems the very CORE of adv and random grouping. cause random almost certainly means "having on afk or jerk aboard" - prior to DR one afk/jerk meant: slower stf and harder work for 4 others, now it means: everyone fails and gets nothing.
____
thats the reason I dont enter any adv randoms anymore -> this is lowering my overall dili and bnp gain -> this seemed to be the goal PW was reaching for. - JUST SAYING
now adv and elite is almost empty, and everyone is doing normals or daily quests for marks, and that was most certainly pw goal. i think just lowering adv,elite rewards would have been to obvious.
____
Conclusion:
i still think that these mandatory mission tasks should be reverted for RANDOM GROUPS, therefore lower rewards for RANDOM QUEUEED GROUPS by 25%
so: normals give 340 dili, 35marks, -> random queueed adv giving 480dili, and whatever 45 marks, + 50-75%chance on a BNP,<- private adv giving as now, and elite as now unchanged.
i think that would cause less frustration by STILL caring for PW overal goal of reducing ingame timerecource gain by overall 30% ...
After reading all of this I have my own opinions...
DR has made running PUG STF's harder and no fun anymore. The failure rate has increased because of multiple reasons. Things like higher NPC HP's, Timers on mandatory content, lack of proper rewards, and putting all means to get better gear behind the content that needs the better gear are just a few of the reasons.
Cryptics recent changes goes to show that they rather continue in this same methodology of theirs because their famed, and hidden, metrics they use says that the course they're on is profitable. And with Cryptic retain all that information and hiding it from us, makes it real hard for any of us to argue with them in an informed and factual manner.
So all I can really say is that DR, to me, is not the game I wanted to play. It has lost a lot of fun and appeal that I once had for the game. My alts just sit as I primarily play only one toon trying to figure out just how to get it to be good enough to play. And the game itself does nothing to help me figure that out.
okay, lets first get two things mixed here sorted:
first of all we are talking about doing adv with random generated groups! (some fleets are to small and even IF you recruit from public elite stf channel, you still need only ONE jerk only, to get a fail)
I run advanced and elite STFs very frequently out of public and DPS channels. They almost always succeed. Seriously, this is only a problem in public random queues.
problem a) mandatory mission tasks ARE called "optionals" in (some) mission windows
-> that causes many players to not recognize the CHANGES into MANDATORY since DR and thus, failing them, maybe without bad intent. mayn players dont read forums or guides anyway, they didnt do it before dr and they wont start all of the sudden ;-) (prior to dr this only caused the group to loose maybe 10-25 marks, now this causes everyone to only get 10marks at all)
This is not actually a problem. First of all, most of them are labelled correctly. Second of all, people who actually runs these queues all know which tasks are required. So, really, what it sounds like is that *you* don't want to read a guide or watch a video to understand what to do - Which is fine. That's why normal queues exist.
problem b) mandatory mission tasks vs "random" groups. basically having mandatory tasks after 5 years of "nevermind optionals" is a BAD sudden change, doesnt add up "hardness" into the stfs, just more "fail frustration" - also it only takes ONE JERK now to ruin everything for everyone.
Also not a problem. In fact, this is a GOOD change. Previously, STF were trivial to the point of boredom. Now they actually require a certain level of skill and/or gear - hence the advanced/elite names.
i do think problem a) would be solvable, but problem b seems the very CORE of adv and random grouping. cause random almost certainly means "having on afk or jerk aboard" - prior to DR one afk/jerk meant: slower stf and harder work for 4 others, now it means: everyone fails and gets nothing.
Indeed, which is why pre-made groups are the way to go for advanced/elite content. This is the same for pretty much every MMO in existence. Working as intended.
now adv and elite is almost empty, and everyone is doing normals or daily quests for marks, and that was most certainly pw goal. i think just lowering adv,elite rewards would have been to obvious.
False. Advanced/Elite queue are run successfully many, many times every day by a wide variety of people - just not in the public queues.
i still think that these mandatory mission tasks should be reverted for RANDOM GROUPS, therefore lower rewards for RANDOM QUEUEED GROUPS by 25%
Mandatory objectives are already not required - on NORMAL. If you can't handle mandatory objectives, then that is the difficulty that you should be playing on.
After reading all of this I have my own opinions...
DR has made running PUG STF's harder and no fun anymore. The failure rate has increased because of multiple reasons. Things like higher NPC HP's, Timers on mandatory content, lack of proper rewards, and putting all means to get better gear behind the content that needs the better gear are just a few of the reasons.
Cryptics recent changes goes to show that they rather continue in this same methodology of theirs because their famed, and hidden, metrics they use says that the course they're on is profitable. And with Cryptic retain all that information and hiding it from us, makes it real hard for any of us to argue with them in an informed and factual manner.
So all I can really say is that DR, to me, is not the game I wanted to play. It has lost a lot of fun and appeal that I once had for the game. My alts just sit as I primarily play only one toon trying to figure out just how to get it to be good enough to play. And the game itself does nothing to help me figure that out.
The highlighted sections are the real problem with the new queues. Mandatory objectives are fine. Tougher enemies are fine. Really, the only problems are:
1) You can't effectively gear up from normal queues, even slowly. Rep items just don't drop.
2) The game is horrendously bad at explaining what you need to do to succeed.
Seriously, competent players with good gear can hit 20K dps in their sleep. But, a guy that just hit 60, having used only the game to figure out how to play, might be lucky to hit 3K. That gap is far too large.
The changes to the PVE queues that came with the launch of DR requires that players
1.) understand the concept of group tactics, and;
2.) that difficulty means more NPC hitpoints.
If you can't grasp either, you should not be in the queues to begin with.
People were bollixing ISA well before the arrival of the new standards. KSA and CSA are no different. The only thing that matters is that the player understand how the event is run. If your impression is that 4 other carry you through the mission, you're not understanding the game mechanics.
The new argument of 'I can't gain better gear to play' or 'I can't earn the materials to upgrade' is entirely valid. The game queues were altered precisely for that reason, to create a motivation to earn/buy the materials to create upgrades. The technology curve is sufficiently steep that players invariably will drop money to make that happen.
Those who cannot spend money will become disaffected and leave. This is a good thing from Cryptics point of view. They use resources without supplying value to Cryptic. This is also a wrong conclusion (more below).
The remaining players spend money to improve. Grinding 8 hours a day isn't possible, so we take the shortcut of buying dilithium to speed the process. The problem is that that we the paying people expect to see a community here to play with. At the moment the 2200 most active players are all congregated in one channel. Fleets are practically dead. And the exchange isn't as active anymore.
That's the problem right now. The act of squeezing us for more money (wholly optional of course) is that its reduced the game of it's prime element: fun through interaction with like minded players. Fewer player, less fun.
If u fail Advanced often just try normal. I Play 25 chars in every range - and even the ones with only 7k dps fail a advanced rarely - even in PUGs.
Khitomer space - 1 probe gone Mission over, was 10 before DR
Cure space - kang destroyed Mission over, nothing new here
Infected space - nanites heal transformer - Mission over, before dr there was no fail Option but with a Team that dies 12 times - i like the fail on this - saves time
nice u wasted so much time in your sig - i do not see it anyway
I run advanced and elite STFs very frequently out of public and DPS channels. They almost always succeed. Seriously, this is only a problem in public random queues.
This is not actually a problem. First of all, most of them are labelled correctly. Second of all, people who actually runs these queues all know which tasks are required. So, really, what it sounds like is that *you* don't want to read a guide or watch a video to understand what to do - Which is fine. That's why normal queues exist.
Also not a problem. In fact, this is a GOOD change. Previously, STF were trivial to the point of boredom. Now they actually require a certain level of skill and/or gear - hence the advanced/elite names.
Indeed, which is why pre-made groups are the way to go for advanced/elite content. This is the same for pretty much every MMO in existence. Working as intended.
False. Advanced/Elite queue are run successfully many, many times every day by a wide variety of people - just not in the public queues.
Mandatory objectives are already not required - on NORMAL. If you can't handle mandatory objectives, then that is the difficulty that you should be playing on.
up what? first. i totally spoke about public random stf ... there is only public random, random is always public random ... i did say that. you didnt read that.
second: i dont know, whenever i enter public elite stfs its 50%fail, ostly because someone focusses down a single gen or letting through brel, whatever.
third: i played elites for almost 5years now, with 10-40k dps depending on ship and build. i know ALL the tactics, i learned them from my fleetmates. so ... no?!
fourth. you mix up fail frustration with hard KI and content. the stf is basically not hard, its just easy to fail by one single jerk. - thats whats causing the uproar cause in public random adv you almost certainly have ONE player that is doing something (sometimes even intentionally) wrong.
and no, not every mmo is "premade for medium content" premade is for high end maximum content, like in wow 40men raids or whats now heroic 25raid or lately heroic 20men raid.
everything else is made for randoms to be doable, if it is heroics or 10men random raids.
->
that said thats exactly my point in making a "special" lowered reward version of ADV public randoms (which is not elite, theres still harder content for you guys if you wish) thats not having mandatory mission tasks and therefore rewarding more than a normal (esp a chance for BNP) and medium dilithium and marks between normal and whats now adv and only playable with premade.
i think premade only is perfectly suited for elite runs. im fine with that.
adv should be doable by public randoms
and whats most important. you cannot design content that needs only
Learning on the Normals only gives you bad habits and wrong ideas for Advanced and Elite.
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Map layout is the same. Places where alarmabugs spawn are the same. When doing N you have a certain idea what you have to do, and in A/E you see "this is now mandatory" and can react adaptively.
Nonetheless is BHE one of the easiest missions pugable.
I've done IGA a number of times since DR and pulled it off with plenty of time to spare.
Teamwork and competence is all it takes. If you know your trigger lines, you are FINE. If everybody is carrying a long range rifle, you can do it. Of somebody is carrying a pulsewave or a pistol and can't fire at the enemy from the proper place, it's their fault if you lose time. You need their DPS to down the enemies quickly.
I guess I should have been more specific... I meant impossible in a PUG. I did accomplish this last night in a pre-made.
That said, I hate the timers anyway. I hate feeling like I have to rush through a mission just to not fail it. I like being able to enjoy the story, the atmosphere, the voice over, etc. That is not possible now.
I can regularly beat KGA in a PUG because I can usually carry the others (and I feel like it's not too hard). That said, I don't enjoy it because I feel like I have to rush through just to not fail the stupid "mandatory optional."
The point is, if it's not enjoyable, why do it? This is a freaking game after all.
And for all those that might say "just do normal" (and I believe Cryptic might even be saying that)... I can't. I want/need the rare mats for crafting. So... I'm forced to do Advanced.
Map layout is the same. Places where alarmabugs spawn are the same. When doing N you have a certain idea what you have to do, and in A/E you see "this is now mandatory" and can react adaptively.
Nonetheless is BHE one of the easiest missions pugable.
This, it is just a matter of L2P, nothing else.
the problem is i cannot FORCE OTHERS to learn ... if someone focusses down a single generator in ISA i cannot ****in change it. do you get that point?
its a matter of "others l2p" but i can not make others learn to play, i cannot look inside another person to see if they got the tactics i cannot, esp not in random public stfs.
whats so hard to grasp in that conflict?
i pointed out multiple times now, that the adv public randoms fail because its extremely "unforgiving" if ONE ANOTHER PLAYER (that is 100% of the time is NOT ME AT ALL) is focussing one generator intentionally.
so OTHER JERKS ARE RUINING THE STFS FOR 4 ppl, that is the basic problem.
still not get it? let me repeat it:
the mandatory mission task have the BIG DISADVANTAGE that it only takes ONE AFK or JERK person (jerk meaning someone (intentionally) ignoring tactics)) to get the damn thing fail for
FOUR PLAYERS THAT KNOW THE TACTIC AND CANNOT DO ANYTHING AGAINST THE ONE JERK
the Problem Is I Cannot Force Others To Learn ... If Someone Focusses Down A Single Generator In Isa I Cannot ****in Change It. Do You Get That Point?
Its A Matter Of "others L2p" But I Can Not Make Others Learn To Play, I Cannot Look Inside Another Person To See If They Got The Tactics I Cannot, Esp Not In Random Public Stfs.
Whats So Hard To Grasp In That Conflict?
I Pointed Out Multiple Times Now, That The Adv Public Randoms Fail Because Its Extremely "unforgiving" If One Another Player (that Is 100% Of The Time Is Not Me At All) Is Focussing One Generator Intentionally.
So Other Jerks Are Ruining The Stfs For 4 Ppl, That Is The Basic Problem.
Still Not Get It? Let Me Repeat It:
The Mandatory Mission Task Have The Big Disadvantage That It Only Takes One Afk Or Jerk Person (jerk Meaning Someone (intentionally) Ignoring Tactics)) To Get The Damn Thing Fail For
Four Players That Know The Tactic And Cannot Do Anything Against The One Jerk
Now You Got That???
Welcome To The Wonderful World Of Mmo's And Pugging!!!!
The solution is simple: Get so good that you can compensate one or two idiots one the team, plan your builds like it and you will be happy (l2p) or get ppl to join you in premades which are you level, so you dont get dragged down by a single black spot on the team.
The solution is simple: Get so good that you can compensate one or two idiots one the team, plan your builds like it and you will be happy (l2p) or get ppl to join you in premades which are you level, so you dont get dragged down by a single black spot on the team.
so i shall invest dilithium for high end gear to compensate for jerks? not gonna happen.
The solution is simple: Get so good that you can compensate one or two idiots one the team, plan your builds like it and you will be happy (l2p) or get ppl to join you in premades which are you level, so you dont get dragged down by a single black spot on the team.
Why must I? What is FUN about that? If this had been designed correctly in the first place, one person should not be able to mess up an STF.
In all other MMO's that I regularly play, progression is part of the reward system. Where the gear you get from one tier of content prepares you for the next tier of content. And the content is so designed that you can succeed if everyone is making a best effort. And there is more than one way to succeed. You can't loose because one guy screws up, it's just takes longer and might be a little more costly in resources, but you don't just outright loose.
STO you just outright loose if one person screws up, purposely or not, and everyone gets penalized for it. Not just the one player. It's not a system designed to reward players for trying. If you fail, everybody gets screwed. And for casual players, that means I just wasted my play time to some person who was either a jerk or was having a bad time of it. And that is not fun to waste my limited time on loosing most of the time.
And I don't think that Cryptic took the time to analyze and see that perspective at all.
In all other MMO's that I regularly play, progression is part of the reward system. Where the gear you get from one tier of content prepares you for the next tier of content.
And the content is so designed that you can succeed if everyone is making a best effort.
Also correct, and true for STO queues as well. If everyone is appropriately geared, semi-competent, and trying to win, you will generally win. That's been my experience, anyway.
You can't loose because one guy screws up, it's just takes longer and might be a little more costly in resources, but you don't just outright loose.
Actually, this is not true at all. In fact, in other 5-man advanced/heroic level queue systems, it is entirely possible to fail if one guys screws up. The difference is that in most other systems you are allowed to try again without having to wait an hour.
It's not a system designed to reward players for trying. If you fail, everybody gets screwed. And for casual players, that means I just wasted my play time to some person who was either a jerk or was having a bad time of it. And that is not fun to waste my limited time on loosing most of the time.
Ah, I see the problem. If you are a casual player (your words), then you should probably be playing on normal difficulty. I think that you will find that your auto-fail issues will disappear if you do this.
Ah, I see the problem. If you are a casual player (your words), then you should probably be playing on normal difficulty. I think that you will find that your auto-fail issues will disappear if you do this.
Not true at all. With content such that is is, you can easily get to where the normal queues don't offer challenge, but you are VASTLY under geared for the advanced queues. The "elite marks" are gates to (extremely) rare drops from rep boxes or advanced and elite queues and are necessary for most of the top end gear. Meaning that casual players don't actually have a reason to play ANY queues, as they're gated out of the rewards.
There should be a progression through the queues. Normal is for learning, advanced is for succeeding, elite is for people who want to go the nth distance. But as it is now, the price of jumping from normal to advanced is too high for most PUGs. That's a design problem. Casual doesn't mean you don't know how to play. It means you only, for one reason or another, play occasionally.
The "elite marks" are gates to (extremely) rare drops from rep boxes or advanced and elite queues and are necessary for most of the top end gear. Meaning that casual players don't actually have a reason to play ANY queues, as they're gated out of the rewards.
Obligatory you don't need queues you just can't have it NAO, just wait for the heat death of this or the next universe and you should have the special currencies from the rep boxes.
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Comments
Game trimmers don't allow players to think abstractly. Players should be cognitively challenged. When there was one objective trimmer, players were able to come up with a few different solutions. As a result of adding a second time based objective, players will complete maps while using the same method. Linear thinking.
If Cryptic truly wanted to challenge players, they would have made the stf maps dynamic. Other words, the maps should have three types of solutions.
Normal Solution - gives out 100 marks.
Advanced Solution - gives out 150 marks.
Elite Solution - gives out 200 marks.
Instead of making three difficulty maps, one map can be solved in three different ways. Players will have to determine which method to utilize.
Unconventional Solutions - gives out 250 marks for combining methods.
Is there even stagnation?
Whenever I look at the top DPSers location, I see them in instance #20 Pariah/Bug Hunt Elite. When you look at the Bug Hunt Elite, Normal and advanced PuGs there is only 1 instance.
The same case with BDE. I see them at instance #44 of BDE but you only see #1 instance at BDN/BDA/BDE PuG windows.
Since cryptic has the numbers, and basing on what I see in game, all this complaint about lack of activity is basing it on what they see at PuG queues.
The status quo has changed. The in-game STO Community has shifted from PuGs to private queues.
There is no reason why the game cannot survive on Private queues when there is more benefits in private queues like the absence of leavers penalty. The game even encourages us to do so due to the lack of leaver penalty in private queues.
The STF grounds are a joke, 3 of us ran through them post DR, it was comically easy even though they've really upped the heavy and elite drone counts. Infected we did with swords no less, its 17x more fun, because crossing the line while the 2 PUGers think we are absolutely nuts is great.
I've never noticed Cure ground being so easy, with that many more HP you'd think it would take longer but it doesn't, turns out we were just starved for HP sinks before.
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By your reasoning, a public Queue is no longer viable or needed. Content hidden behind player made channels is a far superior means of success. Since most new players will hit the public queues first, fail, and some will be lost to attrition via frustration, it is the best way to attract and maintain fresh blood in STO. Goatpoop!
I've got to agree with you, in that Cure ground now seems to be a walk in the park. Less worker drones spawning on the first transformer, so you don't have to watch your back anymore, Armek now always dies before the poor guy gets to finish the second part of his speech.
it's something to try for (unless bugged, like sometimes borg disconnected)
what cleared the ques was the dilthium-upgrade-paywall past mk 12, most people just said "no thanks" and left the game or just did other things.
if regular mk 13 and mk 14 drops (greens or blues) had been implemented right from the start the game would have double the population it does today. and the ques would be hopping.
Sry, I even pugged Korfez with success. It is possible even in pugs, but then you have to be able to pull more than just your weight. Thats not because the STFs are too hard, but because can join advanced/elite content even though they never did normal and have no idea, what to do, but trust that someone (like one of those evil dps-players) will carry them trough.
Are you saying BDN is anything like BDA?
Learning on the Normals only gives you bad habits and wrong ideas for Advanced and Elite.
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first of all we are talking about doing adv with random generated groups! (some fleets are to small and even IF you recruit from public elite stf channel, you still need only ONE jerk only, to get a fail)
problem a) mandatory mission tasks ARE called "optionals" in (some) mission windows
-> that causes many players to not recognize the CHANGES into MANDATORY since DR and thus, failing them, maybe without bad intent. mayn players dont read forums or guides anyway, they didnt do it before dr and they wont start all of the sudden ;-) (prior to dr this only caused the group to loose maybe 10-25 marks, now this causes everyone to only get 10marks at all)
problem b) mandatory mission tasks vs "random" groups. basically having mandatory tasks after 5 years of "nevermind optionals" is a BAD sudden change, doesnt add up "hardness" into the stfs, just more "fail frustration" - also it only takes ONE JERK now to ruin everything for everyone.
i do think problem a) would be solvable, but problem b seems the very CORE of adv and random grouping. cause random almost certainly means "having on afk or jerk aboard" - prior to DR one afk/jerk meant: slower stf and harder work for 4 others, now it means: everyone fails and gets nothing.
____
thats the reason I dont enter any adv randoms anymore -> this is lowering my overall dili and bnp gain -> this seemed to be the goal PW was reaching for. - JUST SAYING
now adv and elite is almost empty, and everyone is doing normals or daily quests for marks, and that was most certainly pw goal. i think just lowering adv,elite rewards would have been to obvious.
____
Conclusion:
i still think that these mandatory mission tasks should be reverted for RANDOM GROUPS, therefore lower rewards for RANDOM QUEUEED GROUPS by 25%
so: normals give 340 dili, 35marks, -> random queueed adv giving 480dili, and whatever 45 marks, + 50-75%chance on a BNP,<- private adv giving as now, and elite as now unchanged.
i think that would cause less frustration by STILL caring for PW overal goal of reducing ingame timerecource gain by overall 30% ...
DR has made running PUG STF's harder and no fun anymore. The failure rate has increased because of multiple reasons. Things like higher NPC HP's, Timers on mandatory content, lack of proper rewards, and putting all means to get better gear behind the content that needs the better gear are just a few of the reasons.
Cryptics recent changes goes to show that they rather continue in this same methodology of theirs because their famed, and hidden, metrics they use says that the course they're on is profitable. And with Cryptic retain all that information and hiding it from us, makes it real hard for any of us to argue with them in an informed and factual manner.
So all I can really say is that DR, to me, is not the game I wanted to play. It has lost a lot of fun and appeal that I once had for the game. My alts just sit as I primarily play only one toon trying to figure out just how to get it to be good enough to play. And the game itself does nothing to help me figure that out.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I run advanced and elite STFs very frequently out of public and DPS channels. They almost always succeed. Seriously, this is only a problem in public random queues.
This is not actually a problem. First of all, most of them are labelled correctly. Second of all, people who actually runs these queues all know which tasks are required. So, really, what it sounds like is that *you* don't want to read a guide or watch a video to understand what to do - Which is fine. That's why normal queues exist.
Also not a problem. In fact, this is a GOOD change. Previously, STF were trivial to the point of boredom. Now they actually require a certain level of skill and/or gear - hence the advanced/elite names.
Indeed, which is why pre-made groups are the way to go for advanced/elite content. This is the same for pretty much every MMO in existence. Working as intended.
False. Advanced/Elite queue are run successfully many, many times every day by a wide variety of people - just not in the public queues.
Mandatory objectives are already not required - on NORMAL. If you can't handle mandatory objectives, then that is the difficulty that you should be playing on.
The highlighted sections are the real problem with the new queues. Mandatory objectives are fine. Tougher enemies are fine. Really, the only problems are:
1) You can't effectively gear up from normal queues, even slowly. Rep items just don't drop.
2) The game is horrendously bad at explaining what you need to do to succeed.
Seriously, competent players with good gear can hit 20K dps in their sleep. But, a guy that just hit 60, having used only the game to figure out how to play, might be lucky to hit 3K. That gap is far too large.
2.) that difficulty means more NPC hitpoints.
If you can't grasp either, you should not be in the queues to begin with.
People were bollixing ISA well before the arrival of the new standards. KSA and CSA are no different. The only thing that matters is that the player understand how the event is run. If your impression is that 4 other carry you through the mission, you're not understanding the game mechanics.
The new argument of 'I can't gain better gear to play' or 'I can't earn the materials to upgrade' is entirely valid. The game queues were altered precisely for that reason, to create a motivation to earn/buy the materials to create upgrades. The technology curve is sufficiently steep that players invariably will drop money to make that happen.
Those who cannot spend money will become disaffected and leave. This is a good thing from Cryptics point of view. They use resources without supplying value to Cryptic. This is also a wrong conclusion (more below).
The remaining players spend money to improve. Grinding 8 hours a day isn't possible, so we take the shortcut of buying dilithium to speed the process. The problem is that that we the paying people expect to see a community here to play with. At the moment the 2200 most active players are all congregated in one channel. Fleets are practically dead. And the exchange isn't as active anymore.
That's the problem right now. The act of squeezing us for more money (wholly optional of course) is that its reduced the game of it's prime element: fun through interaction with like minded players. Fewer player, less fun.
Khitomer space - 1 probe gone Mission over, was 10 before DR
Cure space - kang destroyed Mission over, nothing new here
Infected space - nanites heal transformer - Mission over, before dr there was no fail Option but with a Team that dies 12 times - i like the fail on this - saves time
That's not optional in advanced, and isn't marked as such.
edited so the quote was a quote.
up what? first. i totally spoke about public random stf ... there is only public random, random is always public random ... i did say that. you didnt read that.
second: i dont know, whenever i enter public elite stfs its 50%fail, ostly because someone focusses down a single gen or letting through brel, whatever.
third: i played elites for almost 5years now, with 10-40k dps depending on ship and build. i know ALL the tactics, i learned them from my fleetmates. so ... no?!
fourth. you mix up fail frustration with hard KI and content. the stf is basically not hard, its just easy to fail by one single jerk. - thats whats causing the uproar cause in public random adv you almost certainly have ONE player that is doing something (sometimes even intentionally) wrong.
and no, not every mmo is "premade for medium content" premade is for high end maximum content, like in wow 40men raids or whats now heroic 25raid or lately heroic 20men raid.
everything else is made for randoms to be doable, if it is heroics or 10men random raids.
->
that said thats exactly my point in making a "special" lowered reward version of ADV public randoms (which is not elite, theres still harder content for you guys if you wish) thats not having mandatory mission tasks and therefore rewarding more than a normal (esp a chance for BNP) and medium dilithium and marks between normal and whats now adv and only playable with premade.
i think premade only is perfectly suited for elite runs. im fine with that.
adv should be doable by public randoms
and whats most important. you cannot design content that needs only
ONE JERK
to TRIBBLE it.
thats the basic point.
even if 4 ppl do everything right, only
ONE JERK
is needed to TRIBBLE them all.
and THAT
DEFENETELY IS IT
what kills adv random public space queuees.
Map layout is the same. Places where alarmabugs spawn are the same. When doing N you have a certain idea what you have to do, and in A/E you see "this is now mandatory" and can react adaptively.
Nonetheless is BHE one of the easiest missions pugable.
This, it is just a matter of L2P, nothing else.
I guess I should have been more specific... I meant impossible in a PUG. I did accomplish this last night in a pre-made.
That said, I hate the timers anyway. I hate feeling like I have to rush through a mission just to not fail it. I like being able to enjoy the story, the atmosphere, the voice over, etc. That is not possible now.
I can regularly beat KGA in a PUG because I can usually carry the others (and I feel like it's not too hard). That said, I don't enjoy it because I feel like I have to rush through just to not fail the stupid "mandatory optional."
The point is, if it's not enjoyable, why do it? This is a freaking game after all.
And for all those that might say "just do normal" (and I believe Cryptic might even be saying that)... I can't. I want/need the rare mats for crafting. So... I'm forced to do Advanced.
the problem is i cannot FORCE OTHERS to learn ... if someone focusses down a single generator in ISA i cannot ****in change it. do you get that point?
its a matter of "others l2p" but i can not make others learn to play, i cannot look inside another person to see if they got the tactics i cannot, esp not in random public stfs.
whats so hard to grasp in that conflict?
i pointed out multiple times now, that the adv public randoms fail because its extremely "unforgiving" if ONE ANOTHER PLAYER (that is 100% of the time is NOT ME AT ALL) is focussing one generator intentionally.
so OTHER JERKS ARE RUINING THE STFS FOR 4 ppl, that is the basic problem.
still not get it? let me repeat it:
the mandatory mission task have the BIG DISADVANTAGE that it only takes ONE AFK or JERK person (jerk meaning someone (intentionally) ignoring tactics)) to get the damn thing fail for
FOUR PLAYERS THAT KNOW THE TACTIC AND CANNOT DO ANYTHING AGAINST THE ONE JERK
now you got that???
Welcome To The Wonderful World Of Mmo's And Pugging!!!!
so i shall invest dilithium for high end gear to compensate for jerks? not gonna happen.
You dont need to. You think to onedimensional, thats your downfall. This fight isnt won by simply better gear, but by better thinking.
Why must I? What is FUN about that? If this had been designed correctly in the first place, one person should not be able to mess up an STF.
In all other MMO's that I regularly play, progression is part of the reward system. Where the gear you get from one tier of content prepares you for the next tier of content. And the content is so designed that you can succeed if everyone is making a best effort. And there is more than one way to succeed. You can't loose because one guy screws up, it's just takes longer and might be a little more costly in resources, but you don't just outright loose.
STO you just outright loose if one person screws up, purposely or not, and everyone gets penalized for it. Not just the one player. It's not a system designed to reward players for trying. If you fail, everybody gets screwed. And for casual players, that means I just wasted my play time to some person who was either a jerk or was having a bad time of it. And that is not fun to waste my limited time on loosing most of the time.
And I don't think that Cryptic took the time to analyze and see that perspective at all.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Correct. STO has an issue here.
Also correct, and true for STO queues as well. If everyone is appropriately geared, semi-competent, and trying to win, you will generally win. That's been my experience, anyway.
Actually, this is not true at all. In fact, in other 5-man advanced/heroic level queue systems, it is entirely possible to fail if one guys screws up. The difference is that in most other systems you are allowed to try again without having to wait an hour.
Welcome to playing team games with other people.
Ah, I see the problem. If you are a casual player (your words), then you should probably be playing on normal difficulty. I think that you will find that your auto-fail issues will disappear if you do this.
Not true at all. With content such that is is, you can easily get to where the normal queues don't offer challenge, but you are VASTLY under geared for the advanced queues. The "elite marks" are gates to (extremely) rare drops from rep boxes or advanced and elite queues and are necessary for most of the top end gear. Meaning that casual players don't actually have a reason to play ANY queues, as they're gated out of the rewards.
There should be a progression through the queues. Normal is for learning, advanced is for succeeding, elite is for people who want to go the nth distance. But as it is now, the price of jumping from normal to advanced is too high for most PUGs. That's a design problem. Casual doesn't mean you don't know how to play. It means you only, for one reason or another, play occasionally.
Obligatory you don't need queues you just can't have it NAO, just wait for the heat death of this or the next universe and you should have the special currencies from the rep boxes.