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Lifetime of regret
ovrkyl
Member Posts: 309 Arc User
As in, I am regretting paying hard-earned money for a lifetime subscription now that I have seen firsthand what Delta Rising is all about. I heard a lot of complaints from other players but didn't jump in the deep end right away because I knew there would be issues and bugs and such with the fresh release of an expansion.
But when the concept of said expansion is overpowered NPC opposition in lame patrol-style missions over and over and over, it is clear the devs had no idea how to actually build an expansion after removing some of the best elements of the game to begin with (i.e. exploration).
This is the first time...
...EVER...
...with any of my characters that I've skipped any mission for any reason.
Mission in question? "Better with Friends", AKA "being gang-***** with your Alliance buddies by OP Vaadwaur in seemingly endless, unwinnable, and bugged patrol missions". Not only was the Kelsid system mission ridiculously constructed (thanks for giving not enough time to deploy the satellites much less letting me have time to read the instructions about deploying them before dropping the first wave on my head and having my ship destroyed in less than 10 seconds), but the Farn system is hopelessly bugged and unwinnable (and has been since DR's release).
Again, I've NEVER skipped a mission 'til now. Why is that such a big deal? Well, if I end up skipping DR missions, what is left to do?
...
More patrol missions.
I am hence regretting spending for a lifetime subscription, and I strongly suggest/recommend/advise other players to THINK HARD AND MANY TIMES before opening your wallets to pay for one. I believe the devs need to put forth more thought, effort, and comprehension of what both this game and Star Trek are SUPPOSED to be about before they get another dime from me.
But it's not like they'll listen anyway. They already got my money, right? Yah, I'm the sucker.:mad:
Rant done.
But when the concept of said expansion is overpowered NPC opposition in lame patrol-style missions over and over and over, it is clear the devs had no idea how to actually build an expansion after removing some of the best elements of the game to begin with (i.e. exploration).
This is the first time...
...EVER...
...with any of my characters that I've skipped any mission for any reason.
Mission in question? "Better with Friends", AKA "being gang-***** with your Alliance buddies by OP Vaadwaur in seemingly endless, unwinnable, and bugged patrol missions". Not only was the Kelsid system mission ridiculously constructed (thanks for giving not enough time to deploy the satellites much less letting me have time to read the instructions about deploying them before dropping the first wave on my head and having my ship destroyed in less than 10 seconds), but the Farn system is hopelessly bugged and unwinnable (and has been since DR's release).
Again, I've NEVER skipped a mission 'til now. Why is that such a big deal? Well, if I end up skipping DR missions, what is left to do?
...
More patrol missions.
I am hence regretting spending for a lifetime subscription, and I strongly suggest/recommend/advise other players to THINK HARD AND MANY TIMES before opening your wallets to pay for one. I believe the devs need to put forth more thought, effort, and comprehension of what both this game and Star Trek are SUPPOSED to be about before they get another dime from me.
But it's not like they'll listen anyway. They already got my money, right? Yah, I'm the sucker.:mad:
Rant done.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Post edited by ovrkyl on
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Man...I wish I had a time machine now.
Well, at least I saved a hundred dollars on it due to a sale. :P
In fact none of the DR missions are that hard any more.
Did you want to blitz through every mission without thought? Because that sounds boring.
Yes, I also got mine on discount.
What's upsetting to me is the absolute BS that we were fed when they removed the exploration system (that my wife and I were looking forward to after completing the existing storyline arcs). We were told it was being removed because it didn't live up to their standards, implying they had something to replace it with. They obviously didn't. Well, if they didn't, then put the exploration system back so we at least have SOMETHING to do.
Not everyone wants to do STFs.
Not everyone wants to do rep grinds.
Not everyone wants to do PvP (which, while I detest it myself, I've heard is substandard in this game as well).
The randomness of the exploration system was sufficient. If I go do a patrol, I know that if I go do X system, it will be X mission every time I do it. Y system will be Y mission, and so on. It's just a grind. I might as well go back and replay story missions.
The exploration system may have had a limited template and database of information to draw on, but it was a good start and I enjoyed it. So build off of that. Give us something to do after we complete (or get frustrated and skip) all the story missions. Something other than mindless grinding to justify spending an exorbitant amount of money for something that the devs honestly don't seem motivated or interested enough in DEVeloping.
I shouldn't have to "improve my build" when what I had was sufficiently end-game to get me through anything that was up to DR's release. I have a T5-U Chimera (NO, I am NOT paying more money just to get a ship from the C-Store just to be able to pay the game!) with all the 8472 Counter-Command gear on it (bio-molecular weaponry, Fluidic Counter Assault set, Counter Command Ordnance set, etc.) and, even when I begin equipping the Mk XIII blue gear rewards from missions, I'm still getting my TRIBBLE kicked by OP Vaadwaur. Their tactics (lock me down with Constriction Anchors, swarm tricobalts all around me, and take me down in 10 or less) are OP and their ships and weaponry are OP. I don't have the dil or money to spend to mindlessly upgrade gear up to XIV epics and I shouldn't have to for the endless PATROLLING that I'm having to do in story missions.
In anything less than DR missions (Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, Borg, Breen, Dyson) it is scaled appropriately and I can complete it. Not effortlessly, I'm not asking for everything to be handed to me, but at least it is possible.
If the missions are designed to be only completed with a specific type of ship with a specific type of weaponry, then the devs have done what many other MMOs (like WoW) have done by pigeonholing players into playing an isolated style of characters and equipment.
I remember WoW made a similar mistake with Zul'Aman, by releasing an instance that required better gear to complete it than what was dropping in the instance as reward, making it virtually pointless to do in the first place. DR strikes me the same way.
Why is it that the entire rest of the game (not including Advanced, Elite, PvP play obviously) can be done just fine but DR has SO many issues?
Never played Advanced or Elite. I know my limits. I play Normal always.
When I played that mission (and I aborted in disgust after my ship died), I read the dialog then the timer's clicking. I barely could read what little I read and just started flying around rapid-firing the F key inside green circles as much as possible before the timer expired.
The moment the timer expired the first wave warped in (I TRIBBLE you not) literally within 1-2km of me, Constriction Anchor (I'm flying a Chimera, need to MOVE), tricobalt warheads targeting all around me, my shields gone from the blasts, then my hull goes to 0%, all in less than 10 seconds flat.
It has nothing to do with my build. I didn't have a snowball's chance in Hell.
If I'd had a chance to read the instructions so I knew what the Hell I was doing with the satellites and had enough time to at least distribute the primary set (even without the secondary or third set), not to mention not being literally underneath them when they spawn and have a chance of moving before exploding, then MAYBE I would've given it another chance.
The instructions COULD have been made part of the dialog (much like with other mission text or queued events) rather than be some button on the side that I have to speed-read WHILE time's expiring.
Nope. Skipped the whole mission 'cause of that patrol (and the Farn patrol bug).
Simply because they want to encourage sales. All those tier 6 ship traits and especially gear upgrades will bring you in a position to play the way you already could b4 delta rising. I have managed that on some of my chars. Its really nothing more nothing less.
The only other way to progress or to improve you performance would be through specialization trees which they have hidden behind a traumatic SP timegate even for those brave captains committed to the Argala system patrol.
So either play a lot or pay a lot if you want to sit in that chair Admiral!
Im sorry OP, basically everybody I know in game including me understands you and shares your pain. The only reason those I know still stick around is either that they dont want to abandon the communities they play in or simply because there arent any other Star Trek games around. There also comes a time where you have simply invested a lot alright and thereby have a hard time of throwing it all away.
There is also the slight hope that things will become better
one day.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Just try the mission again! You'll get the hang of it.
Yes, you're jumping to cite "Pale Moonlight" and a few other exceptions. I will note that in every one of those cases, the fact that it was not the Starfleet way, not according to the principles of the Federation, and they were doing it anyway because of grim overwhelming necessity, was a big deal, the central moral conflict of the story. Not the sort of thing one casually tosses into the middle of a set of patrols, which - because they're bundled together - requires you to skip the whole lot if you refuse to do that one mission.
And yes, it "all works out in the end", due to an extremely convenient and lucky appearance of an actual opponent. But - if you went through with the mission - you still had to lie. Your token objections, in dialogue, had no actual effect on the outcome; there was no option to come clean, reveal the deception, and do everything above-board. The Starfleet way.
The same quest with the Romulan, as a Romulan character, it was totally fine to do that. Yet, the only answer I had was "I don't like that". When I was thinking "oh, awesome !".
You also have a mission where the Hierarchy (remember, the guys that try to get you killed like 4 times) "employ" you to protect a shipment of medical supplies. Malons pops up, and says they were scammed those supplies by the hierarchy guy. Totally possible considering your past relation with them. What do you do ? You shoot them.
That's fine as a Klingon. Perhaps as a Romulan to. But as a fed ? Doing mercenary work, and kill people without negotiating ? Yeah, right, that's totally worth a good old court martial.
@OP, I agree with others about your build probably needing some helps. As a word of advice : use beams and BFAW.
Using cannons in STO is asking for trouble, and a lot of headaches. But in DR ? It's even worse. Beams allow you to keep moving and firing, avoiding the nasty Vaadwaur aoe, and BFAW will destroy the one shot kill tricobalt torp/mines before they reach you.
I was a cannon guy. It was already difficult to keep using it with the Voths and Undines. But with DR, I dropped my last cannon ship and went full beam like everyone else. Works so much better.
However, I agree with how cheap it is to have patrol mission that pretend to be story mission. Especially when they are revamping old stuff and claim it's not on the same level of quality than new content.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
That is EXACTLY the tactic I use. The targeting blips, don't be there. Done. Move fast, destroy anchors when they appear. Done. Charge the ships and don't let up, DPS them down, hit and run, blah blah. Done.
Let me reiterate again.
I didn't have a CHANCE to move. There is no way they should have spawned ON TOP OF ME, deployed anchor, pinned me in place, targeted tricobalts, dropped my shields, and totaled my ship all in less than 10 seconds. I've fought lots of other NPC opponents and NO ONE spawns and reacts that quickly with that much firepower. And this isn't the only mission where something like this has happened. It, coupled with the Farn bug, was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
I've been pissed at the Vaadwaur, the patrol missions, and the general storyline of DR from Escalation.
The Vaadwaur are OP and the missions are poorly designed.
The only things I've liked about DR so far have been:
[LIST=*]
[*]the Delta Alliance rep traits
[*]the Kobali Prime ground zones/missions (THEY actually made sense and are doable; I like ground in DR, it's space that sucks)
[*]the new mechanic for grapple/zip-line/rappel (I had a blast with THAT mission, ground of course)
[/LIST]
And, like hfmudd stated, I have issues with the storyline itself. We can't play like Starfleet. I wouldn't have lied to the Benthans and Hazani in that mission either. I wanted to tell the Romulan commander to f--- off, but that wasn't an option. And choosing to be "deputized" by the Benthans or stand against them in another mission was BS, especially when the "3rd option" was only available if you had Diplomacy 4 (when it's so hard to get it now more than ever).
DR is poorly conceived, poorly designed, poorly constructed, poorly implemented, and poorly received.
Like I said, pigeonholing.
It's one thing if there's a certain "requirement" of weaponry or ship or style for an STF. It's another when it's a part of general play in Normal (not Advanced or Elite) storyline single-player missions SUPPOSEDLY meant to accommodate all players (i.e. NOT "if you don't fly THIS ship with THIS weapon you can't progress").
It's no different to any other content in the game. Turn up, shoot some stuff and leave. About the only difference is you don't beam onto a planet and instead hop between a few systems.
I played through it using mostly the Kazon Raider with the 3 piece Breen set and standard disruptors. I died a few times but didn't have any major problems once I got used to things. I'm sure the polaron resists came in very handy, so perhaps that is where the OP is having trouble?
patrols dont introduce you to them, they simply make a non specific cameo role with characters from voyager, a fight happens and thats it.
a full mission or more would of given more depth to why the fighting is taking place and give each group/race a purpose and something that would help understand this race a bit more then before.
look at the romulans, pre season 7, we only had a few missions that show them to be warlike, deceitful and ambitious, but some of the colonies are looking for federation assistance. with LoR introduced, we learn far more about the romulans then we ever could from the occasional patrol or badly made mission.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Quite possibly. Someone in one of my alt fleets/channels warned us all, when DR was still on Tribble: polaron, polaron, polaron. Everyone in the damn quadrant seems to use it. (And when it went live, they were right.)
I relate to your story somewhat as I too went Lifer just as a very long slump of no playable content was "introduced" (known to longtime players as the "year of hell" before the game went F2P ) .
As to answer your question , I think that there were several reasons they made the DR NPC's a bit harder to fight .
Obviously they though to push players to upgrade their equipment (they also I troduced new timers in group content as additional "pressure" to upgrade) , but if you'll notice, DR has woefully little content compared to the previous expansion , thus they needed an artificial means to make it last longer .
Those means were the patrols you seem to detest to much (mind you they are mostly an upgraded version of the patrols the previous "cluster exploration" offered, tho the clusters also offered ground encounters) , and they piled on the difficulty .
Now one tip that has been mentioned here on the forums is that if you engage the Vaduwaar, once you see them deploy their spatial charges (that they later shoot and can cause great damage with) -- once you see those deployed, hit Evasive Maneuver and fly out of the upcoming explosions range .
You can also use engine batteries or those green engine boosters that you can get from a dailies at Eta Eridani to fly out of their explosions range once you've used up your Evasive Maneuvers .
Hopefully you will not need to evade them for more then once or twice before you finish off their Artillery ship .
Keep in mind that this is a new combat mechanic in the game, and you will have to adapt to it just like most of us did .
I did DR in MK 12 equipment as well the first time and I too blew up a couple of times , so I understand your wtf reaction here as well .
Just be glad that you're not moch of a group player, as Cryptic really took the stick to those who do not subscribe to their new "gear up or else..." motto .
Still some of us can make do with no upgrades or partial upgrades, and have skill and luck on our side .
Just remember that the Vaduwaar use Kinetic and Poloron damage , thus equip your ship with that in mind if you blow up too much .
If you have Engineering Consoles that protect you from Phasers Disruptors or Plasma, now would be a good time to park those in your inventory and equip something more useful .
Good luck and don't let Cryptic keep you down .
... they are really really not worth it ...
I think Delta Rising has the problem that it is a kind of "sight-seeing" story-line - let's bring back many of the VOY species we encountered there, and let's bring VOY crew members to interact with the players.
I think LOR's story was more... personal. You lost your homeworld again to a maniacal Tal'Shiar leader and his allies, and you try to help build a new government. In many ways, you feel more... central. Due to the prominent NPCs in Delta Rising, you often feel a bit less personal as room must be given to the Trek alumnis and their stories.
But overall, I think the two expansions set out to two very different things, and this manifests in mechanics and story-line.
ditto............................................
Argala introduces us to the Bentham Guard - it explains what they are doing and what they see their role, before we ever met anyone else.
Both Argala and the Battlefield set up the threat of the Vaadwaur - not with name, but with the knowledge that there is something out there giving the Borg trouble.
Later Patrols even have their mini-storyline with that Ferengi Merchant.
I think they are done far better than any Patrol we ever had before. They have something to do with the storyline, they provide some color.
Sure, mechanically they boil down to "kill x Enemy Groups" at some point (well, most of them do.). And that's the only thing that is left if you do them for the hundred's time. But if you play them as part of the story-line, they work fine.
And even for "kill X Enemy Groups" they are far better than those Exploration Cluster missions. It may seem silly, but some of those old missions didn't even show where the next enemy group was to be found, just indicate a general area, and they weren't on your sensors either. In DR, you have position indicators and the enemy usually pop up in sensor range. That means they are designed much better from a "usability" point of view.
(Though the Romulan Tau Dewa Patrols at least share this feature - you're not left guessing what to do.)
Interesting that you should compare Gaul and Hakeev ... .
What rang the bell for me was when the "overseer" NPC you interact with mentions that "Gaul was a washout but perhaps you can find someone else who is more willing to make peace" -- and that's when my mind went to the Romulan story line and "Obisek " just popped in there .
And sure enough , down the road , enter : Eldex .
... I know ... , it's formulaic storytelling ...
Finished all missions on elite difficulty, really don't know what you are talking about. Point of the missions is not to just jump in whit whatever you have. But to be prepared and to adjust if necessary.
For instance the vaudwaar have almost ZERO energy drain resistance. With just polaron weapons you can shut them down in a few seconds using fire at will if your flow caps are pretty high. Then they stop shooting, moving, no more shields etc. Also without their movement bonuses and shields they pop pretty darn quickly.
Tykens rift and gravity well is also a good strategy.
You could also go in with a higher hp cruiser and use a few defensive abilities like engineering team and shield healing abilities while using fire at will on them.
If you really want to do a pure glass escort with no defensive capabilities then you need to have a very high attack speed and move out of range of the exploding balls before they detonate.
I have taken hits from those balls on the breen carrier and they can basically be ignored on that ship. On a cruiser they are nothing. On my dauntless that thing is a squishy as hell science vessel and for that vessel I have to keep moving and then shut the vaudwaar down since a few hits can pop that vessel.
"Use Temporal Skills to NERF EVERYTHING before it happened!" -Unknown source.
Then improve your tactics.
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I understand that some of you had no trouble at all getting through DR on elite. But please keep in mind that not all of us have super epic godly gear to unleash upon the Vaadwaur and other bad guys of the DQ. Some people, myself included, have to make due with less. And then the Vaadwaur seems overpowered, even on lower difficulties. Resulting in quite some frustration and rage. And I'm not prepared to endlessly take out my wallet for upgrades.