I think the moderators are doing a fine job though. Really what is it you would moderate. If I say I'm unhappy with X or Y in regards to the game, am I breaking a forum rule ? Cause if anyone breaks a rule the current mods do a fine job of removing the posts, and issuing warnings and banns if they need to.
What you are suggesting is that Cryptic should get someone to censor there forums to sanitize them and remove anything that isn't "awsome". If they go that route there forums would simply die. There are a few developers that do go that route and super censor there forums, I can't think of many where it has been a positive thing though.
The Mods here do the best they can with the time and numbers they have. And our VCMs have no ban power, to the best of my knowledge. Not even to issue temporary time-outs for violators. Something that the vast majority of forums I've been a member of DO HAVE.
And there is a big difference between expressing dissatisfaction with the game's direction, and the trolling/counter-trolling/flaming/name-calling/TRIBBLE-posting/and what have you that currently infests these boards like a cancer. It's that kind of TRIBBLE that makes these boards toxic as all hell.
It's also the kind of garbage that keeps people who have CONSTRUCTIVE feedback from posting on a regular basis. People like myself, to name one example.
Things, as they stand now, are a semi-free for all that appears to be overwhelming what our few mods have the time to deal with, considering they have a life outside the forums.
And don't presume to know my motivations without me sharing what they are. I suggest nothing of the sort. YOU might see it that way. But I see it as a needed measure to impose the kind of order needed on a corporate forum, that involves a marketed product, so that customers can express BOTH satisfaction and dissatisfaction in a non-toxic civil online environment. Not just another internet forum were people can be asses to one another safely behind their keyboards, semi-anonymous, with little to no consequences for their actions.
And don't presume to know my motivations without me sharing what they are. I suggest nothing of the sort. YOU might see it that way. But I see it as a needed measure to impose the kind of order needed on a corporate forum, that involves a marketed product, so that customers can express BOTH satisfaction and dissatisfaction in a non-toxic civil online environment. Not just another internet forum were people can be asses to one another safely behind their keyboards, semi-anonymous, with little to no consequences for their actions.
Fair enough... perhaps I over assumed your intentions. In one way I guess I sort of agree with you the current volunteer guys should in general. Cryptic should have one or a few of there own employees doing the job. It is a corporate site and as a company many of us have paid money to you would think they could at least PAY someone to do a job, it is almost insulting that our mods are non paid imo.
I do disagree with you that the STO forums are toxic at all really. The only time I have seen arguments break out over negativity it has been from people disagreeing about exactly that. The stop whining posts are the only things that ever get the back and forths going. Honestly if the stop whining people would just chill and let people vent like Cryptic does it wouldn't perpetuate.
I for one appreciate that Cryptic for the most part doesn't try to stifle the forums. (Mostly... it is a bit frustrating when they do things like close with no explanation threadnaughts like the Meme one) Some people see me as a Doom poster.. and I really don't care how they view me to be frank. I have played the game as long as anyone else, and longer then most. I have spent a good amount of $... I have supported things I like at times, to the point of being called a booster. If I have an opinion of something in the game or upcoming I have a right like anyone else to post it. The fact that I choose to take a break from the game due to displeasure doesn't mean my voice should no longer be heard. In the almost 5 years I have been playing this game now I have taken breaks a few times. I have never stopped giving my thoughts about the game though. I also never will, Nor will I entertain the idea that because I choose to take a break from a game my thoughts no longer matter... its insulting. It would be like having a reporter asking Michael Jordan (not that I am the best STO player ever or soemthing) for his opinion on an NBA rule change... and then having a bunch of current NBA players saying "WHO cares what MJ thinks hes retired"
In any regard... Cryptic doesn't agree with the ops thinking so its not really worth arguing about it anymore. Clearly there is a group of players that think we should never complain on the forums... unless its a complaint they share themselves then of course its clearly ok. (not saying that is you... I have for sure seen other posters compaling about "whining" in one thread only to post there own whine thread a day later) Regardless bottom line if you see a "doom" post and you feel like arguing your points go for it. If you don't want to be dragged into that conversation as you see it as "toxic" then by all means just don't respond. Forums are places where many people will be posting with many different thoughts. Myself I try my best understand other peoples views and at somepoint you have to understand they just wont' see it the way you do.
I just want them to be active players of the game before they go ranting in the forums.
When I see an 8 paragraph diatribe by someone who has a total of ONE forum post, something is wrong. There just shouldn't be thread after thread after thread encouraging people to boycott the game or asking for heads to roll.
The # of forum posts a poster has, shouldn't invalidate their point.
The fact that a player takes the time out of his/her game play to provide honest feedback should alone say something.
Even more so if they only have a total of one forum post, this is a poster who isn't a regular member of the "vocal minority".
But then again, if we're explaining away empty queues.... :rolleyes:
None of what anyone's been saying on these forums should come as a surprise to Cryptic, they have the numbers. they know better than us.
They've read the reviews, and I'm not even talking about those posted in forums either.
I mean in my fleet alone, since Delta Rising's launched, I've seen more longtime friends leave than I care to admit. I won't go into the details why, they've been discussed ad nauseam.
But hey, if they wanna stick their heads up their reporting bugs, that might work for a while too.
I am not in favor of banning people for not being subscribers or having gone inactive in game. Far better, if addressing anything, to look at uncivil behavior--and it occurs on both sides of the aisle, not just one. Expressing a negative opinion of the game design decisions doesn't make you a slobbering, growling attack dog who is out to get the devs and other players. Customers--both paying and that Cryptic should want to entice into paying as best as they can--have a right to offer feedback on the product or service they are using. Civility could improve but the type of ban the OP and others describe would only hurt the situation further.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I think the moderators are doing a fine job though. Really what is it you would moderate. If I say I'm unhappy with X or Y in regards to the game, am I breaking a forum rule ? Cause if anyone breaks a rule the current mods do a fine job of removing the posts, and issuing warnings and banns if they need to.
What you are suggesting is that Cryptic should get someone to censor there forums to sanitize them and remove anything that isn't "awsome". If they go that route there forums would simply die. There are a few developers that do go that route and super censor there forums, I can't think of many where it has been a positive thing though.
I still think Cryptic just needs to have some ninja zombie monkeys go to the homes of certain posters and slap them around repeatedly with frozen banana peels. There's only three of them...so maybe if they did a Kickstarter fund so they could get some ninja zombie monkeys, I'd see what I could scrounge up. :P
Most folks, I think they just have off days...a bunch of folks are misunderstood...bunch are taken out of context...the usual stuff, it happens. Stuff that the moderators can handle if necessary. But those three...need some ninja zombie monkeys - maybe in power armor or something.
edit: In thinking about it, I think one of the mods must have spoken to one of them though...so it would just be two. Since there are only two, could I get some freakin' laser beams on the heads of my ninja zombie monkeys in power armor?
edit: In thinking about it, I think one of the mods must have spoken to one of them though...so it would just be two. Since there are only two, could I get some freakin' laser beams on the heads of my ninja zombie monkeys in power armor?
Seems like you have some insight Virus. Your not testing new content for Cryptic are you ? Please tell me there are not new Borg that know Kung Fu. lol
Seems like you have some insight Virus. Your not testing new content for Cryptic are you ? Please tell me there are not new Borg that know Kung Fu. lol
You said Borg, but I couldn't help picturing Cryptic doing a version of Kung Fu Pakled.
This, is the goal, of narrheehaw It's mission, to destroy new worlds and civilizations
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] And to boldly ruin, what no one has ruined before.
I won't go as far as saying we should go the way of a certain other sci fi MMO that only allows paying customers to post on the forums, but I think we need to take a step in that direction.
People that aren't playing the game in god knows how long and only post here to troll and spew hatred on the game and the developers is entirely unhealthy for the community.
You said Borg, but I couldn't help picturing Cryptic doing a version of Kung Fu Pakled.
A true Pakleds Kung Fu is already in game. It is called crafting system. No matter how hard you try you just cant get the modifier constellations right even though you already crafted mountains of trash.
And no OP, I dont agree. Anybody who plays and or played STO should be able to voice his/her opinion. There is no difference for any active or inactive status.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I think the happiest people or most anti-whining players spend little or nothing.
Big spenders are unhappy and the more they've spent, the more unhappy they tend to be.
And you could interpret that to mean that nothing is broken as long as those people keep spending, that wallet votes speak louder than forum posts from a player.
I think that's a lousy attitude.
A good design is one where the more someone spends, the more vocally happy they are. And I think until you achieve that, your model needs refinement.
But you CAN see where this idea and this idea conflict, right? There ARE people that like the direction Cryptic is doing, they're just chased out of the forums and discouraged to post said praise because some that happen to have the opposite opinion assume it's "mindless" praise. Hell, I'm probably one of the few with balls enough to stand up to that BS just so it'll encourage more people to feel that they can voice their opinion honestly without getting trolled about it.
Meh. I don't care about moderating what's said on the forums. What I do care about is an effort to get rid of the incessant gold spammers and what they're polluting on various zones.
But you CAN see where this idea and this idea conflict, right? There ARE people that like the direction Cryptic is doing, they're just chased out of the forums and discouraged to post said praise because some that happen to have the opposite opinion assume it's "mindless" praise. Hell, I'm probably one of the few with balls enough to stand up to that BS just so it'll encourage more people to feel that they can voice their opinion honestly without getting trolled about it.
I'm happy to hear praise about the game. There's a difference between actual praise and knee-jerk "praise" that people feel pathologically compelled to post every time someone voices their opinion.
For example, I once started a thread about the queues being dead. Someone (not you) jumped all over me, saying the queues weren't dead. I then quoted a post from a dev saying they were looking into the empty queues. The person who jumped all over me jumped all over that post too, saying that whoever posted it had no idea about the game and was just a forum whiner. When I pointed out that it was a dev's post he shut up.
That's the kind of thing I mean. People who see a negative comment and rather than scrolling on by, feel some sort of pathological urge to call it BS.
I won't go as far as saying we should go the way of a certain other sci fi MMO that only allows paying customers to post on the forums, but I think we need to take a step in that direction.
People that aren't playing the game in god knows how long and only post here to troll and spew hatred on the game and the developers is entirely unhealthy for the community.
Isn't that already the case? I thought F2P players that never spend anything or never had a subscription can't post?
What I would rather have is that my game username was my forum name again. :mad:
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I think the happiest people or most anti-whining players spend little or nothing.
Well, it's a theory, but... I spend a lot of money last year on STO. Way more than I should, probably. I actually don't dare to actually calculate the numbers of what I spend last year, and what I spend in total, on STO.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Even though this forum has become an embarrassment that I'd never want to show to any other MMORPG forum, I dislike censorship in any way and would vote against OP's suggestion.
Well, it's a theory, but... I spend a lot of money last year on STO. Way more than I should, probably. I actually don't dare to actually calculate the numbers of what I spend last year, and what I spend in total, on STO.
I am not going to say it applies to every player.
You know what?
Take a random sample of players for a survey. Just ask them to rate level of happiness, 1 to 5.
But to do this right, you have to model responses of former players who get randomly selected. From there, if an inactive player gets randomly selected, you look to see at their last 5 forum posts if they had any. If they didn't, maybe look at how long they continued playing relative to players with a similar play profile.
The whole point is about stated attitude versus spending. I think businesses should strive for vocal satisfaction above and beyond hitting financial targets and that something is wrong if a spending customer is vocally unhappy for reasons that are fixable.
I won't go as far as saying we should go the way of a certain other sci fi MMO that only allows paying customers to post on the forums, but I think we need to take a step in that direction.
People that aren't playing the game in god knows how long and only post here to troll and spew hatred on the game and the developers is entirely unhealthy for the community.
Free players pay indirectly for the game via the zen exchange. Look at the hundreds of thousands of zen sold on that, not all of it can be accounted for from the stipend. How much do you think would be sold if that was not in place?
What one person sees as hatred another sees as feedback. Yes there are trolls no one can deny that, and fanbois can be as bad as the haters as they are the flip side of the same coin. However collective puishment is not the way to go with that, we do need more active moderators, with only two the task is a mountain.
Comments
The Mods here do the best they can with the time and numbers they have. And our VCMs have no ban power, to the best of my knowledge. Not even to issue temporary time-outs for violators. Something that the vast majority of forums I've been a member of DO HAVE.
And there is a big difference between expressing dissatisfaction with the game's direction, and the trolling/counter-trolling/flaming/name-calling/TRIBBLE-posting/and what have you that currently infests these boards like a cancer. It's that kind of TRIBBLE that makes these boards toxic as all hell.
It's also the kind of garbage that keeps people who have CONSTRUCTIVE feedback from posting on a regular basis. People like myself, to name one example.
Things, as they stand now, are a semi-free for all that appears to be overwhelming what our few mods have the time to deal with, considering they have a life outside the forums.
And don't presume to know my motivations without me sharing what they are. I suggest nothing of the sort. YOU might see it that way. But I see it as a needed measure to impose the kind of order needed on a corporate forum, that involves a marketed product, so that customers can express BOTH satisfaction and dissatisfaction in a non-toxic civil online environment. Not just another internet forum were people can be asses to one another safely behind their keyboards, semi-anonymous, with little to no consequences for their actions.
Fair enough... perhaps I over assumed your intentions. In one way I guess I sort of agree with you the current volunteer guys should in general. Cryptic should have one or a few of there own employees doing the job. It is a corporate site and as a company many of us have paid money to you would think they could at least PAY someone to do a job, it is almost insulting that our mods are non paid imo.
I do disagree with you that the STO forums are toxic at all really. The only time I have seen arguments break out over negativity it has been from people disagreeing about exactly that. The stop whining posts are the only things that ever get the back and forths going. Honestly if the stop whining people would just chill and let people vent like Cryptic does it wouldn't perpetuate.
I for one appreciate that Cryptic for the most part doesn't try to stifle the forums. (Mostly... it is a bit frustrating when they do things like close with no explanation threadnaughts like the Meme one) Some people see me as a Doom poster.. and I really don't care how they view me to be frank. I have played the game as long as anyone else, and longer then most. I have spent a good amount of $... I have supported things I like at times, to the point of being called a booster. If I have an opinion of something in the game or upcoming I have a right like anyone else to post it. The fact that I choose to take a break from the game due to displeasure doesn't mean my voice should no longer be heard. In the almost 5 years I have been playing this game now I have taken breaks a few times. I have never stopped giving my thoughts about the game though. I also never will, Nor will I entertain the idea that because I choose to take a break from a game my thoughts no longer matter... its insulting. It would be like having a reporter asking Michael Jordan (not that I am the best STO player ever or soemthing) for his opinion on an NBA rule change... and then having a bunch of current NBA players saying "WHO cares what MJ thinks hes retired"
In any regard... Cryptic doesn't agree with the ops thinking so its not really worth arguing about it anymore. Clearly there is a group of players that think we should never complain on the forums... unless its a complaint they share themselves then of course its clearly ok. (not saying that is you... I have for sure seen other posters compaling about "whining" in one thread only to post there own whine thread a day later) Regardless bottom line if you see a "doom" post and you feel like arguing your points go for it. If you don't want to be dragged into that conversation as you see it as "toxic" then by all means just don't respond. Forums are places where many people will be posting with many different thoughts. Myself I try my best understand other peoples views and at somepoint you have to understand they just wont' see it the way you do.
The # of forum posts a poster has, shouldn't invalidate their point.
The fact that a player takes the time out of his/her game play to provide honest feedback should alone say something.
Even more so if they only have a total of one forum post, this is a poster who isn't a regular member of the "vocal minority".
But then again, if we're explaining away empty queues.... :rolleyes:
None of what anyone's been saying on these forums should come as a surprise to Cryptic, they have the numbers. they know better than us.
They've read the reviews, and I'm not even talking about those posted in forums either.
I mean in my fleet alone, since Delta Rising's launched, I've seen more longtime friends leave than I care to admit. I won't go into the details why, they've been discussed ad nauseam.
But hey, if they wanna stick their heads up their reporting bugs, that might work for a while too.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
My character Tsin'xing
I still think Cryptic just needs to have some ninja zombie monkeys go to the homes of certain posters and slap them around repeatedly with frozen banana peels. There's only three of them...so maybe if they did a Kickstarter fund so they could get some ninja zombie monkeys, I'd see what I could scrounge up. :P
Most folks, I think they just have off days...a bunch of folks are misunderstood...bunch are taken out of context...the usual stuff, it happens. Stuff that the moderators can handle if necessary. But those three...need some ninja zombie monkeys - maybe in power armor or something.
edit: In thinking about it, I think one of the mods must have spoken to one of them though...so it would just be two. Since there are only two, could I get some freakin' laser beams on the heads of my ninja zombie monkeys in power armor?
Seems like you have some insight Virus. Your not testing new content for Cryptic are you ? Please tell me there are not new Borg that know Kung Fu.
You said Borg, but I couldn't help picturing Cryptic doing a version of Kung Fu Pakled.
If only they had the money to hire Jack Black to do some voice work.
:cool:
It's mission, to destroy new worlds and civilizations
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
And to boldly ruin, what no one has ruined before.
DO NOT compare EVE with STO.
A true Pakleds Kung Fu is already in game. It is called crafting system. No matter how hard you try you just cant get the modifier constellations right even though you already crafted mountains of trash.
And no OP, I dont agree. Anybody who plays and or played STO should be able to voice his/her opinion. There is no difference for any active or inactive status.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
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I'm happy to hear praise about the game. There's a difference between actual praise and knee-jerk "praise" that people feel pathologically compelled to post every time someone voices their opinion.
For example, I once started a thread about the queues being dead. Someone (not you) jumped all over me, saying the queues weren't dead. I then quoted a post from a dev saying they were looking into the empty queues. The person who jumped all over me jumped all over that post too, saying that whoever posted it had no idea about the game and was just a forum whiner. When I pointed out that it was a dev's post he shut up.
That's the kind of thing I mean. People who see a negative comment and rather than scrolling on by, feel some sort of pathological urge to call it BS.
Free Tibet!
Isn't that already the case? I thought F2P players that never spend anything or never had a subscription can't post?
What I would rather have is that my game username was my forum name again. :mad:
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I am not going to say it applies to every player.
You know what?
Take a random sample of players for a survey. Just ask them to rate level of happiness, 1 to 5.
But to do this right, you have to model responses of former players who get randomly selected. From there, if an inactive player gets randomly selected, you look to see at their last 5 forum posts if they had any. If they didn't, maybe look at how long they continued playing relative to players with a similar play profile.
The whole point is about stated attitude versus spending. I think businesses should strive for vocal satisfaction above and beyond hitting financial targets and that something is wrong if a spending customer is vocally unhappy for reasons that are fixable.
Free players pay indirectly for the game via the zen exchange. Look at the hundreds of thousands of zen sold on that, not all of it can be accounted for from the stipend. How much do you think would be sold if that was not in place?
What one person sees as hatred another sees as feedback. Yes there are trolls no one can deny that, and fanbois can be as bad as the haters as they are the flip side of the same coin. However collective puishment is not the way to go with that, we do need more active moderators, with only two the task is a mountain.