I simply jump straight into advanced read the briefing and followed everyone else, I screwed up a few times causing the STF to fail but hey when the normal queues are empty not like I have a choice... its advanced or nothing for alot of STF's
I simply jump straight into advanced read the briefing and followed everyone else, I screwed up a few times causing the STF to fail but hey when the normal queues are empty not like I have a choice... its advanced or nothing for alot of STF's
I learned this way as well but pre "fail" conditions. It would take me a few tries to get it right however with no one queing normals (not in the past or now ) there is only one way to learn which by the seat of your pants.
The problem with the cryptic design is that once people clear normals who are in the bulk of the population they wont be returning to them they will q advanced because that is what they can do meaning that the pool of available people for playing normals will drop to nothing. That gives new players no real choice so I find it upsetting that people get upset at players who are in advanced q's because there is nothing else to play.
Now cryptic has added this what we call "autofail" condition that is not hard to cause if you get a couple of new players. Although I am still fairly certain the bulk of fails come from people who are deliberatly entering these q's to cause them to fail.
I dont do many stf's anymore because I enjoyed pugging I find it fun. I meet new people and its truly the only variable to these matches. However now with this autofail which is a stupidly easy griefing mechanic I absolutely refuse to play any of them unless its for something I need. So I play 2 like tops but usually just limit myself to one for fleet marks and one for delta stuff. ( I am down to q'ing an stf on one of 4 characters maybe once every 2 days.. so basically I am not playing them much anymore)
I use doff missions for my materials for things like the upgrade kits and craft them as I obtain materials and sell one or two off to pay for materials that I might have otherwise obtained in STF's but since there is an alternative to having to go through these STF's and have a high probability of being griefed or told off by some idiot who is usually not himself contributing. I really would rather eat dirt then do an STF.
If they wont remove that griefing mechanic I wont be playing them much if at all since I find that its more fun to get my fleet marks in the defera ground zone I am playing less STF's for fleet marks as well and this is my main need. So I am one less person who q's and I know I am not alone.
sorry about that to all those needing them but I dont feel it wise to indulge a company by playing content that I feel needs to be fixed (badly) so.. I dont.
I disagree. There have been many times when I've just needed 10 or so marks to finish paying for a piece of rep gear so i go in to a normal STF as you can get the marks in minutes. I've never waited more than a few minutes for a normal queue to fill up.
Running the risk of ruining someone else's game because you're not prepared to wait 3 or 4 minutes? Not the coolest of things to do.
Back in the day there wasn't as much rage. People could tell you were new to STF and many times would tell you what needs done as you moved to the next spot or would subtly guide you. After, they would explain your mistakes and even praise your insights. If you were gracious and eager when they did, they would take you on more simply to show you how to do them. Today it seems it's easier to yell NOOB and storm off and leave the new guy clueless to repeat it again.
This, very much this.
However, it's not so easy and/or cut and dried as that.
A "relatively simple" couple dozen STFs usually led to possession of a full slate of Mk XI gear, which was the "gear bar" required for Elite. The missions were 100% identical as long as you had the gear, the Elite probe took the same number of Mk XI [borg] shots as the normal probe needed in Mk X white shots (or so it felt to me), strategies were "identical", etc. etc.
However, ever since S6 with fleets, things have gone south. Fleet gear was so much higher than the normal stuff that elites were being taken down faster than Mk XII [Borg] used to hose normals. Soon, strategy was a thing of the past, DPS was the key - enough DPS means the team could bypass strategy and go straight for "know target priority", My Vesta "saved" lots of ISEs in this era by deflector phasering a sensor scanned transformer while 1 or 2 "passable" escorts helped mow down the transformer before the heal train reached station. Reputation meant that 200 ISAs would kit you out - who needed CSE or KASE. Etc. etc.
Almost two years of this, along with the DPS-ification of Science and Aux2Batt "DPS-ifying" Cruisers suddenly lead to the resurgence of "escorts online", but focused less on having the actual escort, and more on spitting out the DPS levels of one.
It doesn't help that the "new elites", such as Battle for Korfez, advertise that there's a "DPS test" in the first stage of the mission, failure there = "I find your lack of DPS, disturbing" <pop-hiss>
And, the DPS disparity between a fresh 50 and the "powergamer" is so large now (Mk XIV Epic vs Mk X white), that you get situations of 2 minute CCAs where half the team winds up with AFK penalties from DPS-lack.
Yeah, a lot has changed, and I'm not sure that we can go back to the "old days" where there was more generosity than rage...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I disagree. There have been many times when I've just needed 10 or so marks to finish paying for a piece of rep gear so i go in to a normal STF as you can get the marks in minutes. I've never waited more than a few minutes for a normal queue to fill up.
Running the risk of ruining someone else's game because you're not prepared to wait 3 or 4 minutes? Not the coolest of things to do.
Other than borg disconnected and the one with the tholians cant remember its name I have not been able to get into any other STF in normal mode no one q's for them and dont get me started on the Romulan mark STF's.... would like to try the shuttle STF at least once.... I guess it could be a timezone issue for me as Im in the UK.
There's a bunch of helpful players out there that tend to be the first ones in to tackle the new queued content. They're not the first run types you might come across in other games where they try to keep things secret trying to minimize the number of folks doing the content, rather they do all sorts of written and video guides on the content. They post about what to expect, give out pointers in general, and answer questions folks might raise about their own builds or pathing for the content.
So it's a case of hitting all that up, asking any additional questions I might have, and then heading off into other content first...trying to make sure I'm comfortable and feeling somewhat competent with the build before hitting up that Advanced or Elite queue.
When I actually feel ready, when I believe I won't be a burden to the team, then I go have a smoke...come back...and hit up the queue.
In theory people are supposed to learn the STF by starting with the Normal ones, but since DR this no longer applies. The Advanced maps are setup to work differently enough that Advanced has little relations to the Normal.
For example, Cure Space Normal is like pre-DR where a couple of enemy NPC come once in a while. In Cure Space Advanced the enemy NPC ships start storming in like crazy and they have MUCH higher hulls and shield stats. If in Normal, the NPC stats were lower but were storming in - that would be comparable and would help to prepare you for what to expect.
Because of this you pretty much just have to join with a group friends that has done the Advanced and know what is required and the strategy required to complete the STF.
If you don't want to join a fleet, check out my sig for a friendly of players that will help out. STB generally require canon weapons when flying together.
Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home' SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
Wow, this is still a problem? WHO COULD HAVE FORESEEN THAT?
All half-jokes aside, I actually have an opposite problem from you: My fleet wants to take me, but I don't want to be a burden to them, so I'd like to practice first.
So, I haven't done any Ad/E stuff, because my only other option is 'fail heaps'.
I only get so long to play STO. I'm NOT wasting it on risking abuse from PUGs, or on losing the respect of my Fleet, when I've spent so long earning it.
As people have mentioned, Cryptic won't fix this. It's (like everything damn else in this game) up to the community to fix it.
What we need is a bunch of vets who will take a bunch of noobs on a run.
The vets will need to be patient, and the noobs will need to be obedient. And THAT'S the problem RIGHT THERE, and we ALL know it. Which is why this idea - or any like it - simply will not ever work.
Until there's a fleet specifically for this, which people can join and leave at their own leisure, we won't get anywhere with it. Perhaps it's cynical of me, but I think we're already too far gone - the player culture in this game does not inspire 'learning'.
There is no way I'm the first person who's thought of this: Make it so that you CAN'T enter ANY STFs until you get your STF license, which you get from doing single-player training mission, which only gives minimal rewards. If you've already completed a given STF, then you automatically pass training for that mission. I think it would be reasonable to make this an account unlock/license.
But that would require Cryptic to actually do something apart from sit around ignoring the community and counting money, so it'll probably happen right after Half Life 7 is released. Also, it would be buggy as hell (the tags wouldn't work properly, some people would be able to access STFs, and some of the vets would be forced to get their license again, then contact support, then be told 'stop whining and do it', and then go on the forums for moral support, and get abused there - seriously, you know that's EXACTLY what would happen), and everyone would get upset because of that, and just complain and say that they wish things were the way they are now.
There's a bunch of helpful players out there that tend to be the first ones in to tackle the new queued content. They're not the first run types you might come across in other games where they try to keep things secret trying to minimize the number of folks doing the content, rather they do all sorts of written and video guides on the content. They post about what to expect, give out pointers in general, and answer questions folks might raise about their own builds or pathing for the content.
So it's a case of hitting all that up, asking any additional questions I might have, and then heading off into other content first...trying to make sure I'm comfortable and feeling somewhat competent with the build before hitting up that Advanced or Elite queue.
When I actually feel ready, when I believe I won't be a burden to the team, then I go have a smoke...come back...and hit up the queue.
This is exactly what I found on tribble. There were so many helpful people that it made learning enjoyable.
I learned to run the STFs back in Season 5 by reading the guides people had made on the forums. At the time, I had non-STF (Rep) gear, and it took forever to get drops to get the gear from the STF stores. I will say that I did spend more time on normal before I jumped into Elite. For me, it was big learning curve, but I talked to other players and kept reviewing those guides I mentioned. I did go through a trial and error period. Even during the runs, I would observe what other good players were doing and using. At the time, people were a bit nicer when I asked questions after a run. Over time, I did become much much better. I--now--consider myself a pro when it comes to ground STFs thanks to the guides I read, the mentoring I received, the trial-and-error runs, and my better use of the equipment I obtained.
This is exactly what I found on tribble. There were so many helpful people that it made learning enjoyable.
hrm maybe tribble is a solution for some needing to learn however I dont know if its available all the time to people who are not gold members. I seem to remember some restrictions, but I am 'old' and forgetful lol.
Read a basic tactical writeup (I don't like youtube; I want analysis not worthless showing off), did some Normals to learn the basic flow, then moved up. When I found my first ship lacking (my beloved Luna with a canon layout), asked around here and had someone explain not simply "do this, this and this, using this build," but instead why X was better than Y but how Y synergized with Z then left me to figure out the details myself (though a few loud-mouths were still pricks about it). Was a hell of a lot more educational than the people who just pass out cookie-cutters then proclaim 'and then copy me because I'm awesome.' Joined the EliteSTF channel (back before it had to go private) and went from there.
There is a very real problem with people queueing for Advanced STFs, and having no idea what they're doing. This has the potential for being frustrating for entire teams, as there is a very real risk of failure. This also turns the queues into wastelands. People are tired of failure from people contributing next to nothing (either due to lack of familiarity, sub-optimal builds, or straight trolling), and ONLY join premade groups.
So, how does everyone else do these for the first few times- until they are proficient enough to queue for these on their own? I'm genuinely curious about this. Something, somewhere needs to change.
When they announced that the 'optionals' would become required objectives people started to pay attention to them. You could see things like Viscous Cycle or Undine Infiltration being a total TRIBBLE shoot. Prior to DR, in all of the groups (premade and pug) I ran for Viscous Cycle we were never able to scan the Anomaly (primarily due to the timer). The interrogations in Undine Infiltration were poorly implemented. The second citizen always has the exact same pattern, thus fooling people into believing that all citizens never alter their answers. Another aspect that has revealed itself is that once a player starts down the interrogation path and bails (gets shot by a Bajoran or just randomly wanders off because they are scared or unsure) there is no recovery mechanism for the rest of the team (you can't start the questioning fresh, you can be left with a blind 50/50 choice with no data to base the choice). The problem is that every single square STF has been pounded into round holes and Cryptic has done relatively little to smooth over the hard edges.
You pretty much cannot learn these STFs under the new Advanced/Elite requirements in a PUG setting for a couple reasons. For example (Defend Rh'Ihho Station Elite), some timers are so short that you don't really have time to coordinate. Also, there is no guarantee that everyone speaks the same language even if you do manage to outline a plan. And when the STF fails, there is no feedback to tell the team what went wrong so they can improve on their next attempt.
This is what I did:
I am in the PublicEliteSTF channel and have run many groups there. During the race to level 60, we ran some Advanced content and saw just how brutal it could be. That gave us a little time to upgrade equipment and strategize before the next attempt. And for the new DR content, running the normal is important to do at least once so you can get an idea of the layout. I learned on one character by incrementally upgrading my equipment, learning from failing and/or succeeding, adjusting strategy and attempting again, then upgrading my equipment some more.
The PublicEliteSTF (PESTF) community fractured a little bit. PESTF runs anything and everything that can generate marks. To focus the members, a few other channels spun off. The PublicAdvancedSTF channel focuses on running Advanced content only. The DeltaElites channel focuses on running Elite content only. You can still find everything you need in PESTF though.
There is little or no point for me to run an Advanced STF if there is an Elite version available. Once I reach Elite, I do not look back since the reward box is better (a guaranteed 3 VR material and a salvage). In a few cases the Elite version is easier to complete than the Advanced version (Borg Disconnected). I still queue up for elite pug runs from time to time and have found the full range of players out there.
This is what the playerbase needs to do:
0.) Focus on a single character first. Get one character up and functional before upgrading the rest of your menagerie.
1.) Ask about how to succeed in whatever STF before you even queue up. Ask in a chat channel. Ask here on the forums. Watch a video. Google it.
2.) Join a chat channel (and be a bit patient) that focuses on grouping to run content. Realize that there can be hundreds or thousands of people in there, so sit back and listen for a little while. Ask questions during lulls in the action (treating it like you are the center of the universe will get you ignored pretty quick, defeating your purpose).
3.) Let people know up front that you are learning. There will be people who will bend over backwards to make sure you know what to do (or not do). There will also be situations where a team can plan around you not being a superstar if they know about it up front. Seeing a STF through to a successful end can be part of the learning process.
4.) Understand that in most cases there is no single path to success.
5.) There are timers and giant buckets of hit points to overcome in Advanced and Elite. Upgrade your weapons to at least Mk XII if you run Advanced. If you run Space, get your weapons upgraded to Mk XIV (any quality will suffice). If you run Ground, pay close attention to what is trying to kill you (damage, timers, etc). Get some Toxic Resist (Nukara shield, Nukara EV suit or Counter Command armor) if you run Bug Hunt. Get a weapon that bypasses shields (melee weapon or TR-116B), and the Cochrane Shotgun does not count.
Post-DR, before doing Advanced / Elite STFs for the first time, I ask fleetmates/friends what the deal is compared to Pre-DR Elites. A run or two to get the feel clears everything up. The NPCs are still dumb, nothing more but damage sponges. It's the win conditions and "optional" requirements that make it a bit trickier.
hrm maybe tribble is a solution for some needing to learn however I dont know if its available all the time to people who are not gold members. I seem to remember some restrictions, but I am 'old' and forgetful lol.
Tribble is usually open to everyone, but for new releases they lock it to subscribers only. Which is not a wise policy in my opinion. But they seem dead set against changing this.
There is a very real problem with people queueing for Advanced STFs, and having no idea what they're doing. This has the potential for being frustrating for entire teams, as there is a very real risk of failure. This also turns the queues into wastelands. People are tired of failure from people contributing next to nothing (either due to lack of familiarity, sub-optimal builds, or straight trolling), and ONLY join premade groups.
This....and PWE/Cryptic wonder why there is a reporting bug...
If you've come to the forums to complain about the AFK system, it's known to be bugged at the moment.
This....and PWE/Cryptic wonder why there is a reporting bug...
Something needs to change. People want better rewards, but aren't upping their game to play Advanced or Elite content. They're just....diving in. There are many reasons why, but the fact is, "teh q's are empty!!!!1111" is the result, and something has to give.
Everyone in this thread knows why the queues are empty. If Cryptic doesn't, and they have to ask us (which....WTF by the way), they have some serious, serious problems.
haven't found a meter that works for the Mac client
CombatLogReader uses Java, does Apple not support Java?
You could always just join Public-DPS and ask if someone would be willing to take you through ISA and parse for you. More than a few times we've had people look for teams in 10k with a newbie in tow, and since the rest of the team is from 10k it's never been an issue.
People who fail with Mk XII purples are unlikely to pass with Mk XIV golds, unless they happen to be right on the cusp of success to begin with.
Performance = Gear * Build * Piloting
Of those factors, Gear increases on a power curve and is the least important factor of the three.
This is true. While you definitely get a noticeable increase in DPS (all other things being equal), you can't rely on your gear to carry you. If you're doing it wrong, you're doing it wrong.
This is true. While you definitely get a noticeable increase in DPS (all other things being equal), you can't rely on your gear to carry you. If you're doing it wrong, you're doing it wrong.
Yep. You could give every player in STO Ezriryan's 145k DPS Akira and I would bet a serious amount of players couldn't do 14.5k in it.
Heh, why I might be tempted to argue the specific mathematics behind it - that would just be OCD and ignoring the gist of what's actually being said there regardless. So some voodoo make-believe math on the way.
A person's Piloting (skill, knowledge, basically the non-gear/non-build stuff) is going to be a modifier on the rest.
The better a Pilot somebody is, the more they will get out of some new level of powercreep than somebody that's perhaps not that great of a Pilot.
What follows is just some rough 'n random stuff along those lines.
Say we start with 1 & 1.
1 * 1 = 1
That's the average, right?
Say we've got somebody that's 50% better Pilot than average, eh?
1 * 1.5 = 1.5
Say we've got somebody's that 75% of average, eh?
1 * 0.75 = 0.75
Let's say we work in Build that's 50% better for that less than average, eh?
1.5 * 0.75 = 1.125
1.125 < 1.5
They're still not going to match that better Pilot just because of their boost to Build.
Let's give that better than average Player the same better Build stuff.
1.5 * 1.5 = 2.25
2.25 vs. 1.125, they've gone from being 1.5x better to 2.0x better at the same level of gearing.
Now say that less than average Pilot split their time between becoming average and upgrading their gear, eh?
1 * 1.25 = 1.25
1.25 > 1.125; ie learning how to play better would benefit them more than just upgrading their gear.
We know it's not additive, it's not B + P...otherwise the DPS numbers would not have jumped like they did, so it's some form of B * P. The specific formula...is beyond this particular post, lol...not touching that with a ten foot pole.
But the gist is there. It's not just what's on the screen, it's also what's in the chair and what's in the chair will make a big impact on what's on the screen. Heh, I can address the goofball things I've got going on with what's on the screen, but it's not going to do me much good unless I also address the goofball things I've got going on with what's in the chair...ie...me.
One of the guys who helped me learn the game talked me into making a new character (engineer) and playing to 50 without spending skill points, and then to play a while at 50 without any rep powers or end game gear.not for the challenge, gut to learn to maximize the non-build, non-gear "stuff". In other words, learn to play in a trial by fire scenario.
I learned so much from the process I keep the character that way. I love the " no build" build and recommend it often. Not many ever try it. Sadly.
It's quite amazing what can be accomplished with no skills, no traits and junk gear. I was most recently parsed just before delta went live while flying a mirror voquv with white quality orion slavers. Pulled 6.somethinglow k dps. I know its a lot higher now because the character is 57 and vaadwar aren't a nightmare even with green and white mark 11 and 12 gear.
The best part was how much all my other characters improved as I learned better timing of my powers and where/how to fly during fights.
*salute @vitorfox* I really hope he comes back to the game some day.
So there's a first person testing onial to show virus, darkjeff and sinn know what they're talking about.
mk 14 gear -> mostly wins, except when pug-teamed with people who haven't upgraded
People who fail with Mk XII purples are unlikely to pass with Mk XIV golds, unless they happen to be right on the cusp of success to begin with.
Performance = Gear * Build * Piloting
Of those factors, Gear increases on a power curve and is the least important factor of the three.
You know, I may have written a snarky-short message compared to you guys but this has really been my experience.
There's only one or two spots where learning is/was involved and that generally can be accomplished very quickly, sometimes all within 1 game/round of play. Occasionally that's not the case and the fail message pops up. So from there, I asked one simple question.
"hey, why did that fail?"
As long as I asked that question (and sought out the answer, in players or the internet) it still only takes 1 or 2 times before it's figured out. These are not super complicated, though, some of the ground stuff may take a little more effort.
Ingame though, on average, it's about the gear and how much of your team is upgraded.
The people playing and failing the pve ques when DR came out were seasoned players with all the knowledge and know how. Sure the optional-fails were a shock but people did try to compensate. There was very little chance of success without the gear.
I remember 2 very well. Khittomer space advanced where you had to stop the probes, the probes would just roll right past people. Another was the cure found space advanced. People were completely stumped, I remember thinking "how the hell are we supposed to do that?".
Anything past mk 12 is a paywall and the advanced pve ques (that give access to the rep system) reinforce that paywall.
it IS absolutely about the gear
> Mind you, I would have no problem with this setup and wouldn't complain so much if the upgrade system didn't consume so much dilthium. (((EDIT: or if there were normal mk 13 and 14 gear drops))) Right now the game and rep system and pve ques are completely inaccessible to new players. Unless of course, they shell out $$
I don't do advanced. I did a few elites before the great Nerf, but not one *advanced* after a few abortive attempts. I learned the old "elites" on YouTube, which is the best place for that
You know, I may have written a snarky-short message compared to you guys but this has really been my experience.
There's only one or two spots where learning is/was involved and that generally can be accomplished very quickly, sometimes all within 1 game/round of play. Occasionally that's not the case and the fail message pops up. So from there, I asked one simple question.
"hey, why did that fail?"
As long as I asked that question (and sought out the answer, in players or the internet) it still only takes 1 or 2 times before it's figured out. These are not super complicated, though, some of the ground stuff may take a little more effort.
Ingame though, on average, it's about the gear and how much of your team is upgraded.
The people playing and failing the pve ques when DR came out were seasoned players with all the knowledge and know how. Sure the optional-fails were a shock but people did try to compensate. There was very little chance of success without the gear.
I remember 2 very well. Khittomer space advanced where you had to stop the probes, the probes would just roll right past people. Another was the cure found space advanced. People were completely stumped, I remember thinking "how the hell are we supposed to do that?".
Anything past mk 12 is a paywall and the advanced pve ques (that give access to the rep system) reinforce that paywall.
it IS absolutely about the gear
> Mind you, I would have no problem with this setup and wouldn't complain so much if the upgrade system didn't consume so much dilthium. (((EDIT: or if there were normal mk 13 and 14 gear drops))) Right now the game and rep system and pve ques are completely inaccessible to new players. Unless of course, they shell out $$
thats suicidal, new players are very necessary!!!
A question for you.
You have time to run 1 STF. Would you rather team with:
1. 4 players from the 30k DPS channel- all of them using white MK X gear, or
2. 4 new players with gold MK XIV gear?
OK, now change the 30k DPS people to having white MK IX gear. Is the answer the same? Mine would be.
I just read the numerous guides on the forums at the time. Most were consistent with each other, so I assumed they were correct.
CombatLogReader uses Java, does Apple not support Java?
They do, but my most recent searches had indicated that both the parser and the ability to save combat logs in the Mac client were dodgy at best. Perhaps it's improved; I'll see what I can find out.
Comments
I learned this way as well but pre "fail" conditions. It would take me a few tries to get it right however with no one queing normals (not in the past or now ) there is only one way to learn which by the seat of your pants.
The problem with the cryptic design is that once people clear normals who are in the bulk of the population they wont be returning to them they will q advanced because that is what they can do meaning that the pool of available people for playing normals will drop to nothing. That gives new players no real choice so I find it upsetting that people get upset at players who are in advanced q's because there is nothing else to play.
Now cryptic has added this what we call "autofail" condition that is not hard to cause if you get a couple of new players. Although I am still fairly certain the bulk of fails come from people who are deliberatly entering these q's to cause them to fail.
I dont do many stf's anymore because I enjoyed pugging I find it fun. I meet new people and its truly the only variable to these matches. However now with this autofail which is a stupidly easy griefing mechanic I absolutely refuse to play any of them unless its for something I need. So I play 2 like tops but usually just limit myself to one for fleet marks and one for delta stuff. ( I am down to q'ing an stf on one of 4 characters maybe once every 2 days.. so basically I am not playing them much anymore)
I use doff missions for my materials for things like the upgrade kits and craft them as I obtain materials and sell one or two off to pay for materials that I might have otherwise obtained in STF's but since there is an alternative to having to go through these STF's and have a high probability of being griefed or told off by some idiot who is usually not himself contributing. I really would rather eat dirt then do an STF.
If they wont remove that griefing mechanic I wont be playing them much if at all since I find that its more fun to get my fleet marks in the defera ground zone I am playing less STF's for fleet marks as well and this is my main need. So I am one less person who q's and I know I am not alone.
sorry about that to all those needing them but I dont feel it wise to indulge a company by playing content that I feel needs to be fixed (badly) so.. I dont.
Running the risk of ruining someone else's game because you're not prepared to wait 3 or 4 minutes? Not the coolest of things to do.
This, very much this.
However, it's not so easy and/or cut and dried as that.
A "relatively simple" couple dozen STFs usually led to possession of a full slate of Mk XI gear, which was the "gear bar" required for Elite. The missions were 100% identical as long as you had the gear, the Elite probe took the same number of Mk XI [borg] shots as the normal probe needed in Mk X white shots (or so it felt to me), strategies were "identical", etc. etc.
However, ever since S6 with fleets, things have gone south. Fleet gear was so much higher than the normal stuff that elites were being taken down faster than Mk XII [Borg] used to hose normals. Soon, strategy was a thing of the past, DPS was the key - enough DPS means the team could bypass strategy and go straight for "know target priority", My Vesta "saved" lots of ISEs in this era by deflector phasering a sensor scanned transformer while 1 or 2 "passable" escorts helped mow down the transformer before the heal train reached station. Reputation meant that 200 ISAs would kit you out - who needed CSE or KASE. Etc. etc.
Almost two years of this, along with the DPS-ification of Science and Aux2Batt "DPS-ifying" Cruisers suddenly lead to the resurgence of "escorts online", but focused less on having the actual escort, and more on spitting out the DPS levels of one.
It doesn't help that the "new elites", such as Battle for Korfez, advertise that there's a "DPS test" in the first stage of the mission, failure there = "I find your lack of DPS, disturbing" <pop-hiss>
And, the DPS disparity between a fresh 50 and the "powergamer" is so large now (Mk XIV Epic vs Mk X white), that you get situations of 2 minute CCAs where half the team winds up with AFK penalties from DPS-lack.
Yeah, a lot has changed, and I'm not sure that we can go back to the "old days" where there was more generosity than rage...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Other than borg disconnected and the one with the tholians cant remember its name I have not been able to get into any other STF in normal mode no one q's for them and dont get me started on the Romulan mark STF's.... would like to try the shuttle STF at least once.... I guess it could be a timezone issue for me as Im in the UK.
So it's a case of hitting all that up, asking any additional questions I might have, and then heading off into other content first...trying to make sure I'm comfortable and feeling somewhat competent with the build before hitting up that Advanced or Elite queue.
When I actually feel ready, when I believe I won't be a burden to the team, then I go have a smoke...come back...and hit up the queue.
For example, Cure Space Normal is like pre-DR where a couple of enemy NPC come once in a while. In Cure Space Advanced the enemy NPC ships start storming in like crazy and they have MUCH higher hulls and shield stats. If in Normal, the NPC stats were lower but were storming in - that would be comparable and would help to prepare you for what to expect.
Because of this you pretty much just have to join with a group friends that has done the Advanced and know what is required and the strategy required to complete the STF.
If you don't want to join a fleet, check out my sig for a friendly of players that will help out. STB generally require canon weapons when flying together.
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
All half-jokes aside, I actually have an opposite problem from you: My fleet wants to take me, but I don't want to be a burden to them, so I'd like to practice first.
So, I haven't done any Ad/E stuff, because my only other option is 'fail heaps'.
I only get so long to play STO. I'm NOT wasting it on risking abuse from PUGs, or on losing the respect of my Fleet, when I've spent so long earning it.
As people have mentioned, Cryptic won't fix this. It's (like everything damn else in this game) up to the community to fix it.
What we need is a bunch of vets who will take a bunch of noobs on a run.
The vets will need to be patient, and the noobs will need to be obedient. And THAT'S the problem RIGHT THERE, and we ALL know it. Which is why this idea - or any like it - simply will not ever work.
Until there's a fleet specifically for this, which people can join and leave at their own leisure, we won't get anywhere with it. Perhaps it's cynical of me, but I think we're already too far gone - the player culture in this game does not inspire 'learning'.
There is no way I'm the first person who's thought of this: Make it so that you CAN'T enter ANY STFs until you get your STF license, which you get from doing single-player training mission, which only gives minimal rewards. If you've already completed a given STF, then you automatically pass training for that mission. I think it would be reasonable to make this an account unlock/license.
But that would require Cryptic to actually do something apart from sit around ignoring the community and counting money, so it'll probably happen right after Half Life 7 is released. Also, it would be buggy as hell (the tags wouldn't work properly, some people would be able to access STFs, and some of the vets would be forced to get their license again, then contact support, then be told 'stop whining and do it', and then go on the forums for moral support, and get abused there - seriously, you know that's EXACTLY what would happen), and everyone would get upset because of that, and just complain and say that they wish things were the way they are now.
So, really, in one way - it's perfect already!
This is exactly what I found on tribble. There were so many helpful people that it made learning enjoyable.
hrm maybe tribble is a solution for some needing to learn however I dont know if its available all the time to people who are not gold members. I seem to remember some restrictions, but I am 'old' and forgetful lol.
When they announced that the 'optionals' would become required objectives people started to pay attention to them. You could see things like Viscous Cycle or Undine Infiltration being a total TRIBBLE shoot. Prior to DR, in all of the groups (premade and pug) I ran for Viscous Cycle we were never able to scan the Anomaly (primarily due to the timer). The interrogations in Undine Infiltration were poorly implemented. The second citizen always has the exact same pattern, thus fooling people into believing that all citizens never alter their answers. Another aspect that has revealed itself is that once a player starts down the interrogation path and bails (gets shot by a Bajoran or just randomly wanders off because they are scared or unsure) there is no recovery mechanism for the rest of the team (you can't start the questioning fresh, you can be left with a blind 50/50 choice with no data to base the choice). The problem is that every single square STF has been pounded into round holes and Cryptic has done relatively little to smooth over the hard edges.
You pretty much cannot learn these STFs under the new Advanced/Elite requirements in a PUG setting for a couple reasons. For example (Defend Rh'Ihho Station Elite), some timers are so short that you don't really have time to coordinate. Also, there is no guarantee that everyone speaks the same language even if you do manage to outline a plan. And when the STF fails, there is no feedback to tell the team what went wrong so they can improve on their next attempt.
This is what I did:
I am in the PublicEliteSTF channel and have run many groups there. During the race to level 60, we ran some Advanced content and saw just how brutal it could be. That gave us a little time to upgrade equipment and strategize before the next attempt. And for the new DR content, running the normal is important to do at least once so you can get an idea of the layout. I learned on one character by incrementally upgrading my equipment, learning from failing and/or succeeding, adjusting strategy and attempting again, then upgrading my equipment some more.
The PublicEliteSTF (PESTF) community fractured a little bit. PESTF runs anything and everything that can generate marks. To focus the members, a few other channels spun off. The PublicAdvancedSTF channel focuses on running Advanced content only. The DeltaElites channel focuses on running Elite content only. You can still find everything you need in PESTF though.
There is little or no point for me to run an Advanced STF if there is an Elite version available. Once I reach Elite, I do not look back since the reward box is better (a guaranteed 3 VR material and a salvage). In a few cases the Elite version is easier to complete than the Advanced version (Borg Disconnected). I still queue up for elite pug runs from time to time and have found the full range of players out there.
This is what the playerbase needs to do:
0.) Focus on a single character first. Get one character up and functional before upgrading the rest of your menagerie.
1.) Ask about how to succeed in whatever STF before you even queue up. Ask in a chat channel. Ask here on the forums. Watch a video. Google it.
2.) Join a chat channel (and be a bit patient) that focuses on grouping to run content. Realize that there can be hundreds or thousands of people in there, so sit back and listen for a little while. Ask questions during lulls in the action (treating it like you are the center of the universe will get you ignored pretty quick, defeating your purpose).
3.) Let people know up front that you are learning. There will be people who will bend over backwards to make sure you know what to do (or not do). There will also be situations where a team can plan around you not being a superstar if they know about it up front. Seeing a STF through to a successful end can be part of the learning process.
4.) Understand that in most cases there is no single path to success.
5.) There are timers and giant buckets of hit points to overcome in Advanced and Elite. Upgrade your weapons to at least Mk XII if you run Advanced. If you run Space, get your weapons upgraded to Mk XIV (any quality will suffice). If you run Ground, pay close attention to what is trying to kill you (damage, timers, etc). Get some Toxic Resist (Nukara shield, Nukara EV suit or Counter Command armor) if you run Bug Hunt. Get a weapon that bypasses shields (melee weapon or TR-116B), and the Cochrane Shotgun does not count.
Tribble is usually open to everyone, but for new releases they lock it to subscribers only. Which is not a wise policy in my opinion. But they seem dead set against changing this.
This....and PWE/Cryptic wonder why there is a reporting bug...
Something needs to change. People want better rewards, but aren't upping their game to play Advanced or Elite content. They're just....diving in. There are many reasons why, but the fact is, "teh q's are empty!!!!1111" is the result, and something has to give.
Everyone in this thread knows why the queues are empty. If Cryptic doesn't, and they have to ask us (which....WTF by the way), they have some serious, serious problems.
CombatLogReader uses Java, does Apple not support Java?
You could always just join Public-DPS and ask if someone would be willing to take you through ISA and parse for you. More than a few times we've had people look for teams in 10k with a newbie in tow, and since the rest of the team is from 10k it's never been an issue.
People who fail with Mk XII purples are unlikely to pass with Mk XIV golds, unless they happen to be right on the cusp of success to begin with.
Performance = Gear * Build * Piloting
Of those factors, Gear increases on a power curve and is the least important factor of the three.
This is true. While you definitely get a noticeable increase in DPS (all other things being equal), you can't rely on your gear to carry you. If you're doing it wrong, you're doing it wrong.
Yep. You could give every player in STO Ezriryan's 145k DPS Akira and I would bet a serious amount of players couldn't do 14.5k in it.
Heh, why I might be tempted to argue the specific mathematics behind it - that would just be OCD and ignoring the gist of what's actually being said there regardless. So some voodoo make-believe math on the way.
A person's Piloting (skill, knowledge, basically the non-gear/non-build stuff) is going to be a modifier on the rest.
The better a Pilot somebody is, the more they will get out of some new level of powercreep than somebody that's perhaps not that great of a Pilot.
What follows is just some rough 'n random stuff along those lines.
Say we start with 1 & 1.
1 * 1 = 1
That's the average, right?
Say we've got somebody that's 50% better Pilot than average, eh?
1 * 1.5 = 1.5
Say we've got somebody's that 75% of average, eh?
1 * 0.75 = 0.75
Let's say we work in Build that's 50% better for that less than average, eh?
1.5 * 0.75 = 1.125
1.125 < 1.5
They're still not going to match that better Pilot just because of their boost to Build.
Let's give that better than average Player the same better Build stuff.
1.5 * 1.5 = 2.25
2.25 vs. 1.125, they've gone from being 1.5x better to 2.0x better at the same level of gearing.
Now say that less than average Pilot split their time between becoming average and upgrading their gear, eh?
1 * 1.25 = 1.25
1.25 > 1.125; ie learning how to play better would benefit them more than just upgrading their gear.
We know it's not additive, it's not B + P...otherwise the DPS numbers would not have jumped like they did, so it's some form of B * P. The specific formula...is beyond this particular post, lol...not touching that with a ten foot pole.
But the gist is there. It's not just what's on the screen, it's also what's in the chair and what's in the chair will make a big impact on what's on the screen. Heh, I can address the goofball things I've got going on with what's on the screen, but it's not going to do me much good unless I also address the goofball things I've got going on with what's in the chair...ie...me.
I learned so much from the process I keep the character that way. I love the " no build" build and recommend it often. Not many ever try it. Sadly.
It's quite amazing what can be accomplished with no skills, no traits and junk gear. I was most recently parsed just before delta went live while flying a mirror voquv with white quality orion slavers. Pulled 6.somethinglow k dps. I know its a lot higher now because the character is 57 and vaadwar aren't a nightmare even with green and white mark 11 and 12 gear.
The best part was how much all my other characters improved as I learned better timing of my powers and where/how to fly during fights.
*salute @vitorfox* I really hope he comes back to the game some day.
So there's a first person testing onial to show virus, darkjeff and sinn know what they're talking about.
You know, I may have written a snarky-short message compared to you guys but this has really been my experience.
There's only one or two spots where learning is/was involved and that generally can be accomplished very quickly, sometimes all within 1 game/round of play. Occasionally that's not the case and the fail message pops up. So from there, I asked one simple question.
"hey, why did that fail?"
As long as I asked that question (and sought out the answer, in players or the internet) it still only takes 1 or 2 times before it's figured out. These are not super complicated, though, some of the ground stuff may take a little more effort.
Ingame though, on average, it's about the gear and how much of your team is upgraded.
The people playing and failing the pve ques when DR came out were seasoned players with all the knowledge and know how. Sure the optional-fails were a shock but people did try to compensate. There was very little chance of success without the gear.
I remember 2 very well. Khittomer space advanced where you had to stop the probes, the probes would just roll right past people. Another was the cure found space advanced. People were completely stumped, I remember thinking "how the hell are we supposed to do that?".
Anything past mk 12 is a paywall and the advanced pve ques (that give access to the rep system) reinforce that paywall.
it IS absolutely about the gear
> Mind you, I would have no problem with this setup and wouldn't complain so much if the upgrade system didn't consume so much dilthium. (((EDIT: or if there were normal mk 13 and 14 gear drops))) Right now the game and rep system and pve ques are completely inaccessible to new players. Unless of course, they shell out $$
thats suicidal, new players are very necessary!!!
A question for you.
You have time to run 1 STF. Would you rather team with:
1. 4 players from the 30k DPS channel- all of them using white MK X gear, or
2. 4 new players with gold MK XIV gear?
OK, now change the 30k DPS people to having white MK IX gear. Is the answer the same? Mine would be.
They do, but my most recent searches had indicated that both the parser and the ability to save combat logs in the Mac client were dodgy at best. Perhaps it's improved; I'll see what I can find out.
LOL it's purely hypothetical.