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An original TOS Constitution Class in STID?

coffeemikecoffeemike Member Posts: 942 Arc User
edited December 2014 in Ten Forward
I was searching on YouTube for random deleted scenes from Star Trek Into Darkness and just dropped jaw when I saw this: An original Constitution Class design in Admiral Marcus' office.

First off: WTF?
Second: Good Thing this was deleted from the film.
Post edited by coffeemike on

Comments

  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I can imagine the Trekkie purists raging about it for hours. :P

    The only explanation I can think of is that the original Constitution-class was already under development when the timeline diverged in 2233, and after the Kelvin attack the class was redesigned to be bigger and tougher. The original 1701 was launched in 2245, so it's not too big a stretch...
    NJ9oXSO.png
    "Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
    -Thomas Marrone
  • coffeemikecoffeemike Member Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I'm still shocked that they thought to include the classic design at all... considering that they wanted their own version of Star Trek on screen.
  • bcwhguderian1941bcwhguderian1941 Member Posts: 804 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Ca'nt quite make out the name...

    U.S.S. x x x x x F O R D ??? It could'nt be "E D S E L F O R D" as a show of disrespect, could it?

    Any takers?


    BCW. :)
  • steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
    edited December 2014
    I can imagine the Trekkie purists raging about it for hours. :P

    The only explanation I can think of is that the original Constitution-class was already under development when the timeline diverged in 2233, and after the Kelvin attack the class was redesigned to be bigger and tougher. The original 1701 was launched in 2245, so it's not too big a stretch...

    ^This.

    Alt-Trek did a lousy job explaining why there was a difference between the original TOS ship and the current one, which has twice the crew. They could have saved a lot of fan grief by keeping the explanation in the show. The cutting room floor explanation is that the scans of the Narada that the Kelvin survivors brought back opened up significant retro-engineering possibilities, resulting in the current ship. Likewise on the cutting room floor is the story of how the Klingons also captured and studied the wounded Narada for a time, resulting in their tech changes also, and thereby re-establishing a balance of power. What I've never heard is if the alt-Romulans were contacted by Nero, and sent the tech info. It is reasonable to assume.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Ca'nt quite make out the name...

    U.S.S. x x x x x F O R D ??? It could'nt be "E D S E L F O R D" as a show of disrespect, could it?

    Any takers?


    BCW. :)

    USS Biddeford according to here.
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  • bcwhguderian1941bcwhguderian1941 Member Posts: 804 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    USS Biddeford according to here.


    Ok, thats a relief. Thanks.


    BCW.
  • umaekoumaeko Member Posts: 748 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The comic books have it that the Enterprise that Christopher Pike was to command was actually not the first iteration of the ship. A predecessor existed, commanded by Robert April, existed before.
  • azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    coffeemike wrote: »
    I was searching on YouTube for random deleted scenes from Star Trek Into Darkness and just dropped jaw when I saw this: An original Constitution Class design in Admiral Marcus' office.

    First off: WTF?
    Second: Good Thing this was deleted from the film.


    What if the Tholians from 'In a Mirror Darkly' had detailed scans and schematics of the Connie they captured; and the more militarized Federation of the JJ Verse came across those scans at some point in it's history? The Constitution design could be a design that they use elsewhere in the universe.

    Either that, or it was just a terrible decision to put it there.
  • z3ndor99z3ndor99 Member Posts: 1,391 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    It was a bad decision to put it there, so i can see why it was cut.
    As far as i know the reason why jj-trek ships/technology is so different, is that when the Narada arrived in the alternate reality ( ok its presence created said reality ) the kelvin scanned the Narada, these scans were sent to starfleet and, thus we get super technology that is abundant in a time where walls don't meet the floor.
    Also a note should be added that the klingon empire had the Narada an her crew for 25 years, it also is logical that they studied the ship as well.
    Most of this info is taken from the countdown comic as well as from the principle writer's.
    Myself personally, i like that jj put his trek in an alternate universe ( not to much harm to the prime universe ), i do feel sorry for star wars fans tho, whatever happens in episode 7 will change the star wars universe forever.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Maybe the way the things looked was because TOS was made in the late 60s and JJ Trek was from 2009?
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  • coffeemikecoffeemike Member Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I have a feeling this will be something of an unfinished inside joke with JJTrek and the community. I'm not sure what the punch line is though
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,461 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    z3ndor99 wrote: »
    i do feel sorry for star wars fans tho, whatever happens in episode 7 will change the star wars universe forever.
    I don't. Remember that the problems with the last two Trek movies lay not so much in the direction (well, other than lens flares), but the writing.

    And Ep VII is co-written by Lawrence Kasdan, who also co-wrote The Empire Strkes Back, widely regarded as the best SW movie to date. So the odds are actually pretty good.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I can imagine the Trekkie purists raging about it for hours. :P

    The only explanation I can think of is that the original Constitution-class was already under development when the timeline diverged in 2233, and after the Kelvin attack the class was redesigned to be bigger and tougher. The original 1701 was launched in 2245, so it's not too big a stretch...

    that wouldnt of made any sense, why resdesign something like that? wouldnt that just add even more time to the schematics and the design phases, it would be better explained that the original tos connie was a shelved early idea and they instead chose a more ugly looking design with more primitive weaponry.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
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  • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    edited December 2014
    that wouldnt of made any sense, why resdesign something like that? wouldnt that just add even more time to the schematics and the design phases, it would be better explained that the original tos connie was a shelved early idea and they instead chose a more ugly looking design with more primitive weaponry.

    Why wouldn't it make any sense? The Constitution-class was refitted in the 2270s (the TOS movie era) in the prime universe. Montgomery Scott pointed out in TMP that they spent around 18 months redesigning and refitting the Enterprise. And that is only with current 23rd-century tech.

    As someone pointed out, the comic book canon for the JJ-verse establishes that the Enterprise existed in some form prior to 2258 (the events of Star Trek (2009)). This ship was commanded by Robert April... it's not crazy to think that the scans from the Kelvin of the Narada took longer to analyze... but, once analyzed, Starfleet decided to push up the refit schedule.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    mhall85 wrote: »
    Why wouldn't it make any sense? The Constitution-class was refitted in the 2270s (the TOS movie era) in the prime universe.

    As someone pointed out, the comic book canon for the JJ-verse establishes that the Enterprise existed in some form prior to 2258 (the events of Star Trek (2009)). This ship was commanded by Robert April.

    Montgomery Scott pointed out in TMP that they spent around 18 months redesigning and refitting the Enterprise. And that is only with current 23rd-century tech... the scans from the Kelvin of the Narada could have taken longer to analyze... but, once analyzed, Starfleet decided to push up the refit schedule.

    prime universe connie

    designed and constructed: 2230's-2240's
    launched: 2240's
    refit start: 2270
    refit end: 2270's - less then 10 years..
    design line retired: 2280's

    crapverse connie

    designed: 2230's
    constructed: 2250's - 20 years construction time?
    launched:2250's
    no refit - so your link of proof doesnt exist yet.

    and you are using prime universe understanding and mechanics, not crapverse understanding and mechanics which is a big difference considering that magic blood and space suits that mysteriously hold up when so badly damaged, especially passing through a debris field, or how a vulcan can stand in an active volcano and not get effected by the heat..

    there is no proof to conclude the original design was never on the table and was in fact already passed over for the ugly design and it took longer to construct, no clue. i would like you to try find some proof that would conclusively prove that the ship ever had any redesigning in the first place.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    edited December 2014
    prime universe connie

    designed and constructed: 2230's-2240's
    launched: 2240's
    refit start: 2270
    refit end: 2270's - less then 10 years..
    design line retired: 2280's

    crapverse connie

    designed: 2230's
    constructed: 2250's - 20 years construction time?
    launched:2250's
    no refit - so your link of proof doesnt exist yet.

    and you are using prime universe understanding and mechanics, not crapverse understanding and mechanics which is a big difference considering that magic blood and space suits that mysteriously hold up when so badly damaged, especially passing through a debris field, or how a vulcan can stand in an active volcano and not get effected by the heat..

    there is no proof to conclude the original design was never on the table and was in fact already passed over for the ugly design and it took longer to construct, no clue. i would like you to try find some proof that would conclusively prove that the ship ever had any redesigning in the first place.

    The "proof" (your words, not mine) is based on Star Trek: Countdown To Darkness, which is as canon as can be (as the events of that story were referenced in STID, and the producers of the comic were using it as a direct tie-in). Not my fault if you haven't read it.

    And my post was speculation based on available in-universe (JJverse, that is) information, then extrapolated based on the workings of Starfleet in the prime universe. The mechanics of the organization could easily be the same, no matter the timeline. It's called inductive reasoning.

    There are many, many holes in the prime universe plotlines, too... but, you've clearly already decided that you are right, and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong.

    Peace.
    d87926bd02aaa4eb12e2bb0fbc1f7061.jpg
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,461 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    prime universe connie

    designed and constructed: 2230's-2240's
    launched: 2240's
    refit start: 2270
    refit end: 2270's - less then 10 years..
    design line retired: 2280's

    crapverse connie

    designed: 2230's
    constructed: 2250's - 20 years construction time?
    launched:2250's
    This does fit that hypothesis, actually. They were beginning design work on the Constitution-class, which ordinarily would have led to a ship launch within a decade. However, the attack on the Kelvin, which led to a more militaristic Starfleet, also caused them to rethink the design, to make the ship class more powerful; thus, an extra few years was added to the design and construction phase, leading to its first launch being over a decade later than in the Prime timeline.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • catstarstocatstarsto Member Posts: 2,149 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Maybe CBS wouldnt let starfleet use it ether ^^

    "ok, we'll make it a cheap novelty for u, but dont u dare put it into service Quinn!"
  • eldarion79eldarion79 Member Posts: 1,679 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    If you look at the Academy mini-novels, there were a number of Constitutions in service prior to the Enterprise being commissioned, like the Cairo and the Potemkin.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,613 Community Moderator
    edited December 2014
    Its possible that the TOS connie model was meant as a nod to the original design, as jonsills said.

    And the AR Connie's different design is based on the fact the Kelvin crew brought back scan data of a 24th Century ship, so the development period for the Connie was extended to take into account reverse engineering some of the tech based on the new scan data. Its possible that later on there will be a TMP style refit of the AR Connie, but we're still technically years away from that.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • catstarstocatstarsto Member Posts: 2,149 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    If you look at the Academy mini-novels, there were a number of Constitutions in service prior to the Enterprise being commissioned, like the Cairo and the Potemkin.

    on the old show that was the only starfleet ship i remember...one ship for each faction as a standard. but how those space hippies got a tholian ship ill never know...i think they even had it stuck in reverse too. but what i gather from the JJ movie was the whole everything changed, even having multiple variation of the ships...the aquaman uniform designs and the NOD defenses on the hull. But in my honest opinion on and version of original trek, i liked the designs of the Enterprise series the best, the guns, tricorders and bridge consoles and interior design was the best look... too bad they didnt have that from the beginning
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    eldarion79 wrote: »
    If you look at the Academy mini-novels, there were a number of Constitutions in service prior to the Enterprise being commissioned, like the Cairo and the Potemkin.

    Of course there were other Constitution-classes commissioned before the Enterprise! The line of ships is called Constitution, not Enterprise, and if Enterprise was the lead ship, the class would be called... Enterprise-class :D
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  • captainoblivouscaptainoblivous Member Posts: 2,284 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I recall a friend of mine reading a novelization of JJtrek 1 and telling me that the difference was explained as the person who designed the TOS connie was killed on the Kelvin before the proposal was formally sent in and as such the one who won the contract for the connie in the JJverse was the person who got the job for the TMP refit.
    It makes sense to me, what about you lot?
    I need a beer.

  • hyplhypl Member Posts: 3,719 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    It's funny, I posted about this back in March and no one seemed to notice.

    Now it's the end of the year and everyone's like WHAAA!? lol :D
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