it comes from your claim of bringing 'balance' to the discussion.
It doesn't matter where it comes from. If you attack someone directly instead of rebut their argument, it shows that you are not interested in the facts at all.
and you didn't deny, so I suspect you ARE one of those folks who scream "PVP!!" when the developers make a change to some klik-box power or another that makes it less powerful.
So what? What does it matter what I am or not? What will that get you? Will it convince anyone of your position? Will it add anything to the conversation?
It's a matter of understanding where you're coming from-and whether to waste breath trying to explain something, or just write you off as a sort of crank or troll.
I just don't understand that way of thinking. Maybe because I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, troll or not. Trolls can be right too sometimes, they're just trying to get a reaction from it.
I'd rather no one takes anything I say at face value. But I do hope that everyone take the time to investigate what I say and find out if it's true or not themselves.
Riccardo171 was(going out on a limb here) laughing at the claim that there are players who actually have a positive opinion on Intel BOFFs and ships. There are indeed examples of that. In an admittedly snarky sort of way, I was pointing that out.
I mean, there's really no point in carrying on a discussion like this, if the other side's immediate reflexive action is to blame you for everything they feel has gone wrong, is there?
There might. If your posting tools are reason, logic and above all honesty, you might be able to expose flaws in the opposition's logic to convince readers, even if your opponent never comes around to your way of thinking.
OTOH, sometimes an impression that is in error can be countered with evidence and logic-depending on how entrenched the other party is in their false belief, well, kind of determines whether it's worth the effort unless playing to a silent audience watching-but-not-participating.
Perhaps, but you're not only wanting to convince the posters you may disagree with, you also might want to convince the audience you might have.
Basically, Orangitis, it's about whether engaging your points is something that will lead to a fruitful discussion, or just an escalating shouting match.
Fruitful discussion is worth the time and effort, I got a divorce to get out of the pointless shouting matches.
Since you're actually engaging me with a reasonable post, I shall respond to your initial question. I try to be as honest and as open with my views as I can using logic that is grounded in reality as well as reasoning I think is in the best interests of both parties. I want my beliefs to reflect reality, and wish to discard beliefs which are not. No, I'm not a troll. If I am saying something stupid, please please PLEASE point it out to me and explain why so I can be less stupid.
thats what i mean.
it was put in, and just left there with people summoning capital ships with fleet support.
frankly, all those clickies should have been disabled completly, since it was mary sue consoles that where one of the most noticable breaking points for pvp in the first place.
Imho they shouldn't just make this exception for shuttle pvp only. It's about bloody time to seperate PvP and PvE entirely! Different scalings for dmg, cooldowns, hp, etc.
They should have balanced both individually long time ago... :rolleyes:
Pointing something out. Giving others a voice so things can be a little more fair around here. Nothing more.
Why? Do I need a reason here? Do I need your permission? Back off.
typical PvE hero arrogance.
Go back to your npcs, no one cares about your DPS here.
Sad Pandas PvP - Starfleet Dental Member - Lag Industries Leader
--
"What a time it was, with all the world against us, what a time it was... When all we did seemed wrong,
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
"Report violations, do not quote them or reply to them. Responding to a violation in an inflammatory manner is a violation in itself and will result in appropriate action."
I devoted quite a bit of attention about a year ago to making some brilliantly tanky ships to finally do pvp. It was a good success. I enjoy defense and had a lot of fun with it. Interestingly, soon after they created the 1 and a pal queue I noted the numbers in the pvp queues died. I would be waiting 10 - 15 minutes for a game, so I stopped trying to pvp. I guess most of the queues were premades looking to pugstomp?
I haven't tried to queue up for months now so I have no idea about all this new stuff.
I think at this point the only thing that would get me back into pvp would be a chess-ladder sort of system. You're matched against people with a similar amount of points. If you win you gain more points and move on to fight slightly harder opponents. If you lose you fight slightly weaker opponents next time.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
It's easy to make that assumption. As I recall, there were millions other thing that were introduced and have made pvp extremely annoying. Enhanced torpedo (undine) was very similar to the current neutronic torpedo's TRIBBLE damage potential. The rise of the proton barrage vaping. Elachi lockouts removed. Unbalanced escorts with five DHCs & five tactical consoles. Removal of dilithium rewards. Also the split queue was not really split. Premades could get in still in duo/solo arenas LOL. It was a mess that just kept getting worse. So yeah, pvp population dwindled expectantly.
I remember it was an honor system at first for the solo/duo, but they never actually fixed it?
I guess one of my main points is that it seemed to me that pvp died completely before DR. This time last year I could join a match within 5 minutes. When I quit there was already no guarantee of ever getting a match.
If there was a chess club kind of leaderboard I would be motivated to move up the list.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
If there was a chess club kind of leaderboard I would be motivated to move up the list.
IMO I don't think this is a good idea. This just breeds elitism and damages the PvP community as a whole.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Well... from here it looks quite dreadful. Surgical Strikes cutting me apart and the "easy" way around it seems going for piloting. That being said i am not through the tree and have only a very vague idea how that is going to play out in the end. But i have to say i appreciate the peak damage survey that has now been built into the game. At least i am now aware whats causing it, not that it helps much. Yes... i could have installed some sort of combat log previously, but... nah
Nevertheless i am going to make a prediction:
At the moment intel abilities are rather rare outside of organized PVP, but that will change. The bulk of people will get to the intel ships sooner or later, which means the situation currently is actually quite temperate. It will increase in magnitude (yes, i am going to get one, too, of course).
I am looking forward to a time not too far in the future where the bulk of players fly intel ships and something like SS is spamed from all sides. Continuously.
Which means... whoever gets the first shot in wins. In that situation i think something will be done. Not much point in ruining the game for paying customers, is it?
We are not entirely there yet, but that is what it will be, as far as i can deduce it, with respect to some uncertainty arising from those specialization trees.
Aside of that... i have to say i like the piloting gimmicks. I love the ships shaking enemy fire off and i like ships spiraling - that is quite nice and the best thing since Romulan singularity jumps.
So... there is a wall we are about to hit. I wonder how that will play out.
Well... that is part of their business model, i can't really blame them for getting a paycheck at the end of the month, nor should we, i think. All contend is available through game-play. It just means you can't grab it off the shelf as quickly. That is fine in my book.
But that is not the issue here. The issue are mechanics that are actually detrimental to game-play, which should be bad in anyone's book, paying or not... or rather: especially if you are a paying, because its ruining your experience, too, ultimately. Just a matter of time.
Now, that being said i am not entirely sure how it will work out at this point but i am not blind either. We will see. I think this game should also remain newbie friendly. With all the factions, boffs, doffs, fleet gear and now intel stuff, specializations, traits, etc, etc... its gotten a little overwhelming lately.
I have no problem with new toys being available for money first. Just... please no "i win" buttons. And not layers upon layers of complexity in mechanics. Thats what you should do with game contend, not mechanics.
Interview with Stephen Ricossa:
STEPHEN - “ we regularly consider it for our updates and look forward to the opportunity to make the improvements the community wants. ”
Devs, you get flamed, but it's never too late to make a change, until the servers are empty/shut off. Now is your chance for redemption. Don't let another one slip by...
I don't think separating PvP and PvE mechanics will solve issues but rather create more especially with the STO staff being small and the bad rep of Cryptic that tend to create more bugs than actually fixing them.
The issues why PvE was so easy in the past is due to bad AI programming and terrible AI doctrine of Cryptic, in Cryptic's view the meaning of a ''Harder AI'' is just basically increasing the Dmg, Shields and HP to basic AI units using only a few abilities then they automatic they will say ''this AI is smarter and harder to beat!!!''.
While i in the other hand i believe that an ''Smarter & Harder AI's'' is using AI Starships with basic base stats similar to players Starships and programmed them to be more almost like PvP players in similar terms of how BOff's abilities being used. lets say for Elite Queue AI's, give them Cannon/Beam/Torpedo abilities and Team Powers which they can spam every 15 sec, Faster CD time for EPtX abilities or even give/program them with 2x EPtX abilities for 100% up time, and faster CD time on certain Heals and Sci Abilties, etc. and make the AI's use them all the time like PvP players would do.
Will this AI beat a Experienced Player 1 on 1?... no, but i do believe the Elite AI Starship with more BOff's abilities + Faster CD time combined with their usual mobs would be dangerous than a Cryptic's so-called ''Smarter and Harder'' Elite AI's which sits there with their 1-2 mil HP and shoot at u with 1-2 attacks abilities every few min and does not heal or do anything else. with this being said i believe the only Starships i believe that should have millions of hull points should be AI Bosses.
Examples can be found across the Video Game Industry, lets take Soul Calibur V a fighting game... alot of ppl complain that the AI in that game is hard even to the veteran players that plays that game. it's max hard AI's i believe uses a input command counter system which if u standing block the AI will either grab or low attack u, if u do a low block the AI will do a mid vertical attack, if u do a close side step the AI will do a horizontal attack, etc. for max damage the designers also input pre-programmed combo attacks which the SCV AI can do all b4 most players can even respond.
While STO is not a fighting game, the princible remains the same in terms of setting up the right Triggers for the AI, which so far in STO is unimpressive, while in DR Elite content takes a long time to complete than pre-DR, its not because its hard but rather it feels like slugging it out with AI's that has nothing to offer but being space borne punching bags with boss-like hp... which i had enjoyed on the first day of DR, but its just repetitive nowadayz.
It's time we realized that PvP is dead. It isn't coming back. Your life will have much less frustration if you give up. It ain't happening.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
funny enough:
it isn't poplular because it's unbalanced, doesn't give rewards -> revamp needed.
but:
no revamp because it isn't popular...
well its not like the goal is to make sto one of the best mmos on the market.They just make it that barely lives from one episode to the other.PvP is for great big games with lots of people .
I devoted quite a bit of attention about a year ago to making some brilliantly tanky ships to finally do pvp. It was a good success. I enjoy defense and had a lot of fun with it. Interestingly, soon after they created the 1 and a pal queue I noted the numbers in the pvp queues died. I would be waiting 10 - 15 minutes for a game, so I stopped trying to pvp. I guess most of the queues were premades looking to pugstomp?
I haven't tried to queue up for months now so I have no idea about all this new stuff.
I think at this point the only thing that would get me back into pvp would be a chess-ladder sort of system. You're matched against people with a similar amount of points. If you win you gain more points and move on to fight slightly harder opponents. If you lose you fight slightly weaker opponents next time.
This, or something similar, is what I have been proposing, a matchmaking system based on your previous games (stats). Private games would still be free.
They can even pull starting data from Hilbert Leaderboard so veterans would be automatically placed in different games then beginners. That would make entry to PvP so much easier.
Comments
So what? What does it matter what I am or not? What will that get you? Will it convince anyone of your position? Will it add anything to the conversation?
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
I'd rather no one takes anything I say at face value. But I do hope that everyone take the time to investigate what I say and find out if it's true or not themselves.
Riccardo171 was(going out on a limb here) laughing at the claim that there are players who actually have a positive opinion on Intel BOFFs and ships. There are indeed examples of that. In an admittedly snarky sort of way, I was pointing that out.
There might. If your posting tools are reason, logic and above all honesty, you might be able to expose flaws in the opposition's logic to convince readers, even if your opponent never comes around to your way of thinking.
Perhaps, but you're not only wanting to convince the posters you may disagree with, you also might want to convince the audience you might have.
Agreed wholeheartedly there.
Since you're actually engaging me with a reasonable post, I shall respond to your initial question. I try to be as honest and as open with my views as I can using logic that is grounded in reality as well as reasoning I think is in the best interests of both parties. I want my beliefs to reflect reality, and wish to discard beliefs which are not. No, I'm not a troll. If I am saying something stupid, please please PLEASE point it out to me and explain why so I can be less stupid.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Imho they shouldn't just make this exception for shuttle pvp only. It's about bloody time to seperate PvP and PvE entirely! Different scalings for dmg, cooldowns, hp, etc.
They should have balanced both individually long time ago... :rolleyes:
typical PvE hero arrogance.
Go back to your npcs, no one cares about your DPS here.
we've broken all our bonds, but life kept going on, what a time, what a time it was..." - Clem Tholet
"Report violations, do not quote them or reply to them. Responding to a violation in an inflammatory manner is a violation in itself and will result in appropriate action."
Just saying, guys...c'mon.
I haven't tried to queue up for months now so I have no idea about all this new stuff.
I think at this point the only thing that would get me back into pvp would be a chess-ladder sort of system. You're matched against people with a similar amount of points. If you win you gain more points and move on to fight slightly harder opponents. If you lose you fight slightly weaker opponents next time.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I remember it was an honor system at first for the solo/duo, but they never actually fixed it?
I guess one of my main points is that it seemed to me that pvp died completely before DR. This time last year I could join a match within 5 minutes. When I quit there was already no guarantee of ever getting a match.
If there was a chess club kind of leaderboard I would be motivated to move up the list.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
IMO I don't think this is a good idea. This just breeds elitism and damages the PvP community as a whole.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
try make tanky ships now lol
anything that can live over 0.0000000001seconds is considered tanky.
The game is 100% broken .
Nevertheless i am going to make a prediction:
At the moment intel abilities are rather rare outside of organized PVP, but that will change. The bulk of people will get to the intel ships sooner or later, which means the situation currently is actually quite temperate. It will increase in magnitude (yes, i am going to get one, too, of course).
I am looking forward to a time not too far in the future where the bulk of players fly intel ships and something like SS is spamed from all sides. Continuously.
Which means... whoever gets the first shot in wins. In that situation i think something will be done. Not much point in ruining the game for paying customers, is it?
We are not entirely there yet, but that is what it will be, as far as i can deduce it, with respect to some uncertainty arising from those specialization trees.
Aside of that... i have to say i like the piloting gimmicks. I love the ships shaking enemy fire off and i like ships spiraling - that is quite nice and the best thing since Romulan singularity jumps.
So... there is a wall we are about to hit. I wonder how that will play out.
But that is not the issue here. The issue are mechanics that are actually detrimental to game-play, which should be bad in anyone's book, paying or not... or rather: especially if you are a paying, because its ruining your experience, too, ultimately. Just a matter of time.
Now, that being said i am not entirely sure how it will work out at this point but i am not blind either. We will see. I think this game should also remain newbie friendly. With all the factions, boffs, doffs, fleet gear and now intel stuff, specializations, traits, etc, etc... its gotten a little overwhelming lately.
I have no problem with new toys being available for money first. Just... please no "i win" buttons. And not layers upon layers of complexity in mechanics. Thats what you should do with game contend, not mechanics.
So they consider updates for pvp, great news.
Real join date September 2012
The issues why PvE was so easy in the past is due to bad AI programming and terrible AI doctrine of Cryptic, in Cryptic's view the meaning of a ''Harder AI'' is just basically increasing the Dmg, Shields and HP to basic AI units using only a few abilities then they automatic they will say ''this AI is smarter and harder to beat!!!''.
While i in the other hand i believe that an ''Smarter & Harder AI's'' is using AI Starships with basic base stats similar to players Starships and programmed them to be more almost like PvP players in similar terms of how BOff's abilities being used. lets say for Elite Queue AI's, give them Cannon/Beam/Torpedo abilities and Team Powers which they can spam every 15 sec, Faster CD time for EPtX abilities or even give/program them with 2x EPtX abilities for 100% up time, and faster CD time on certain Heals and Sci Abilties, etc. and make the AI's use them all the time like PvP players would do.
Will this AI beat a Experienced Player 1 on 1?... no, but i do believe the Elite AI Starship with more BOff's abilities + Faster CD time combined with their usual mobs would be dangerous than a Cryptic's so-called ''Smarter and Harder'' Elite AI's which sits there with their 1-2 mil HP and shoot at u with 1-2 attacks abilities every few min and does not heal or do anything else. with this being said i believe the only Starships i believe that should have millions of hull points should be AI Bosses.
Examples can be found across the Video Game Industry, lets take Soul Calibur V a fighting game... alot of ppl complain that the AI in that game is hard even to the veteran players that plays that game. it's max hard AI's i believe uses a input command counter system which if u standing block the AI will either grab or low attack u, if u do a low block the AI will do a mid vertical attack, if u do a close side step the AI will do a horizontal attack, etc. for max damage the designers also input pre-programmed combo attacks which the SCV AI can do all b4 most players can even respond.
While STO is not a fighting game, the princible remains the same in terms of setting up the right Triggers for the AI, which so far in STO is unimpressive, while in DR Elite content takes a long time to complete than pre-DR, its not because its hard but rather it feels like slugging it out with AI's that has nothing to offer but being space borne punching bags with boss-like hp... which i had enjoyed on the first day of DR, but its just repetitive nowadayz.
LMAOOOOO that made my day
Real join date September 2012
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
it isn't poplular because it's unbalanced, doesn't give rewards -> revamp needed.
but:
no revamp because it isn't popular...
KDF: 2 tacs, 2 engs, 3 scis
KDF Roms: 3 tacs, 1 eng, 1 scis
FED: 2 tacs, 1 eng, 2 scis
TOS: 1 tac
all on T5 rep (up to temporal)
all have mastered Intel tree (and some more specs Points)
highest DPS: 60.982
well its not like the goal is to make sto one of the best mmos on the market.They just make it that barely lives from one episode to the other.PvP is for great big games with lots of people .
This, or something similar, is what I have been proposing, a matchmaking system based on your previous games (stats). Private games would still be free.
They can even pull starting data from Hilbert Leaderboard so veterans would be automatically placed in different games then beginners. That would make entry to PvP so much easier.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers